Botkin Alert. They are back on the conference circuit!

[raspberrymint]

Were you friends with your cousins growing up?  Any insights into them as individuals?

[notkin]

4 hours ago, raspberrymint said:

Were you friends with your cousins growing up?  Any insights into them as individuals?

 

Not really. I grew up in Tulsa and they lived in the DC area when we were kids, and they only came home to visit a few times. I’m closest in age to Isaac and David, so spent the most time with them when we did see each other. David was always really happy and smiley—that’s what I remember the most, so it’s sad to see what he’s turned into (based solely on his FB). Isaac and I were sporadic pen pals and our personalities were more similar at that age (more serious, introverted, interested in journalism/film). The girls were a few years younger than me so all I really remember is that they were both nice and well-behaved as children. Ben, Noah, and Lucas I can’t really comment on at all since they were so much younger.

The last time I saw all of them would have been circa 2006. It was a brief visit but what stands out is how Stepford-y they all seemed. I don’t know how else to describe it—they were very polite and cordial, but it didn’t necessarily feel natural. Not that it was faked; moreso, it just felt “off”. Almost like they were all robots dressed in flesh suits. I know that probably sounds weird, but it’s the best way I can describe it.


 

 

Edited October 23, 2019 by nelliebelle1197
Removed signature

[The Mother Dust]

Thank you so much @notkin for talking with us.  Would you have any insight as to why the sisters are still single?  Do you know of any potential suitors that they might have had?

[Curious]

5 hours ago, notkin said:

@Curious if you can help me verify, glad to do so.

Welcome to Free Jinger

I sent you a private message.  The icon is in the upper right side (or if you are on mobile, you have to hit the 3 lines icon thingy)

3 hours ago, notkin said:

T-Rex Arms

I just have to say that every time I see this it takes me a minute to remember it's the name of an actual business.  Initially, I just laugh and think it's a nickname for one of the Botkin kids or something.

After my second spinal fusion surgery, I was in a clamshell brace for about 5 months and it shortened the use of my arms considerably.  My husband and I joked I had T-Rex arms which were pretty useless. 

 

[Curious]

2 hours ago, notkin said:

Almost like they were all robots dressed in flesh suits. I know that probably sounds weird, but it’s the best way I can describe it.

It makes perfect sense.  We have a post count title (your's says tater tot now, I believe) that is Robotkin for a reason

[notkin]

2 hours ago, Curious said:

I just have to say that every time I see this it takes me a minute to remember it's the name of an actual business.  Initially, I just laugh and think it's a nickname for one of the Botkin kids or something.
After my second spinal fusion surgery, I was in a clamshell brace for about 5 months and it shortened the use of my arms considerably.  My husband and I joked I had T-Rex arms which were pretty useless. 
 

 

Thanks for the welcome! Just sent over a few family photos as proof.

Yeah, the T-Rex thing is...bizarre. I didn’t know it was a thing until I had a recent convo with my mom and she said “your cousin Lucas, the one least likely to succeed, is a ROCK STAR. He’s FAMOUS!” For a brief moment I took her literally and thought maybe, just maybe, one of them had turned out normal. Not so much....


 

 

Edited October 23, 2019 by nelliebelle1197
Removed signature

[Curious]

@notkin has provided sufficient proof of identity for verification.  As always, it's the internet    Carry on!

 

[notkin]

2 hours ago, The Mother Dust said:

Thank you so much@notkin for talking with us.  Would you have any insight as to why the sisters are still single?  Do you know of any potential suitors that they might have had?

 

Honestly, y’alls guesses are probably as good as mine. They’re so image conscious that any updates we (via my mom) get smack of being tightly controlled, so I doubt we’d hear any kind of messaging they didn’t want out there. It’s alluded to that the girls haven’t found anyone worthy of being their husbands but what that really means is that Geoff will never relinquish control of them. Because of that, I highly doubt there’s ever been any serious contenders but again, I’m not privy to those kinds of details.


 

 

Edited October 23, 2019 by nelliebelle1197
Removed signature

[Marian the Librarian]

I just have to say, it's so cool that you've joined FJ, @notkin! Welcome again.

Re: the speculation that the T-Rex Arms business is supporting the entire family - there was discussion on FJ several years ago that Isaac's Christian film industry work was doing same. Now that Isaac has a wife and children, it wouldn't surprise me that Lucas has taken over in that regard. As his IG account confirms, he is truly a legend in his own mind (https://www.instagram.com/lucastrexarms/) - it's a deep, deep rabbit hole, but FJ provides rescue ferrets 

"Robots dressed in flesh suits" - what a great line!!

[Hane]

Welcome, @notkin! Are you close at all with Katie Botkin and her branch of the family?

[The Mother Dust]

Hypothetically, when your uncle passes, if everything else is the same, do you think the sisters will go to live with one of their brothers?  I'm just fascinated with the un-partnered women's living situation.  Will your aunt (Geoff's wife) still be required to have a headship?

Edited October 23, 2019 by The Mother Dust

[notkin]

Welcome, [mention=28491]notkin[/mention]! Are you close at all with Katie Botkin and her branch of the family?

We didn’t grow up in the same geographic region, so we haven’t spent a lot of time together over the years, but we are friendly and on good terms.

She’s done some amazing research and exposés over the years on various members of the patriarchy, so I give her all the props for that. I’ve actually learned new things about our family from reading her work.

Hypothetically, when your uncle passes, if everything else is the same, do you think the sisters will go to live with one of their brothers?  I'm just fascinated with the un-partnered women's living situation.  Will your aunt (Geoff's wife) still be required to have a headship?

Yes, absolutely I think that is what will happen with both his daughters and wife. I base that directly off of orders Geoff has given my divorced mother to put herself under the care of my unmarried uncle (she has yet to comply with that one).

[danvillebelle]

1 hour ago, notkin said:

I base that directly off of orders Geoff has given my divorced mother to put herself under the care of my unmarried uncle (she has yet to comply with that one).

ORDERS?  Honestly, the balls on these patriarchal assholes.  Positively elephantine.

Welcome, btw - so glad you're here.  

[notkin]

ORDERS?  Honestly, the balls on these patriarchal assholes.  Positively elephantine.
Welcome, btw - so glad you're here.  

You nailed it. Elephantine balls, indeed. He’s had the audacity to try to order me around in the past as well, despite a complete lack of a relationship as well as a complete lack of familial authority.

Exhibit A, from 2012:


@curious this is why one of the family reunion pics I sent as verification is missing my face—I was banned from attending by my lovely uncle unless I pretended to be the good little straight girl that I’m absolutely not.

[The Mother Dust]

Of your cousins (Victoria and Geoff's children specifically) if you were to pick one who you thought had the biggest likelihood of "breaking away" or, if not break away, at least the one who is most likely to eventually live their life the furthest from the "Botkin ideal" (even if it's after the (gag) "patriarch" passes,) who would you pick? 

Now that you are a member of FJ, other than topics related to your family, are there any other topics or families here that you are interested in reading/talking with other FJers about?  My other favorite thread topic here are the "Doug Phillips is a Tool" threads. 

Edited October 23, 2019 by The Mother Dust

[Curious]

@notkin  I'm not sure if you are aware, but we have an archive regarding the Botkins here: https://www.freejinger.org/forum/270-botkin-family-botkinettes/

Also, I forgot to mention yesterday, if you want to start a topic you can do so in the SOTDRT forum.  Then just report the post with a note that it needs to be moved and a helpmeet will be along to move it to the proper forum for you.

[Marian the Librarian]

"Orders." Ah, dictatorial, controlling relatives who, not content with living their own lives, makes it their business to bully and micromanage everyone else's. I'm intimately acquainted with the dynamic, minus the "Christianity" element - but honestly, I think that just serves as a convenient smoke-and-mirrors construct for someone like Geoff. There is nothing truly Christian about the way he treats people. 

I sincerely hope your mother told your uncle he could take his orders on a very long walk off a very short pier. And I'm sorry his assholery precluded your participation in the family reunion.

[notkin]

25 minutes ago, Curious said:

@notkin  I'm not sure if you are aware, but we have an archive regarding the Botkins here: https://www.freejinger.org/forum/270-botkin-family-botkinettes/

Also, I forgot to mention yesterday, if you want to start a topic you can do so in the SOTDRT forum.  Then just report the post with a note that it needs to be moved and a helpmeet will be along to move it to the proper forum for you.

I did not know this--thank you! I just had a good laugh over the Botkinette relationship advice thread. I don't know about you guys, but I definitely get the most salient life tips from people with zero experience on the topic!

[notkin]

6 minutes ago, Marian the Librarian said:

"Orders." Ah, dictatorial, controlling relatives who, not content with living their own lives, makes it their business to bully and micromanage everyone else's. I'm intimately acquainted with the dynamic, minus the "Christianity" element - but honestly, I think that just serves as a convenient smoke-and-mirrors construct for someone like Geoff. There is nothing truly Christian about the way he treats people. 

I sincerely hope your mother told your uncle he could take his orders on a very long walk off a very short pier. And I'm sorry his assholery precluded your participation in the family reunion.

Geoff is the antithesis of what being a "Christian" is. Don't get me started on how he puts his "family" first, unless his definition of family conveniently omits his parents and siblings. Setting aside his odious beliefs, my hatred of him stems from the way he's treated my grandmother, mother, and sister. 

Sadly, the mistreatment and emotional abuse he's put my mother through over the years hasn't led to her cutting him out of her life and/or a much-deserved rebuke. I was prompted to revisit my tenuous relationship with his family when she invited me to spend time with her this weekend at a conference they will also be attending and used their presence as a selling point. I had to remind her that I have zero intention of ever interacting with him (setting aside how much I really want to step foot anywhere near a group of people who are gathered to learn how to navigate the current moral ailments of society, of which the LGBT population is a chief concern--she seems to conveniently forget that I am a woman married to another woman).

Hey, maybe with his waning popularity he'll at least have time to acknowledge her presence at this event. When she attended the San Antonio Independent Christian Film Festival one year, he told her before coming, "people are traveling from hundreds and thousands of miles away to stand in line solely with the hopes of meeting ME, so I certainly hope you don't plan to take up any of my precious and valuable time".

[VVV]

5 minutes ago, notkin said:

Geoff is the antithesis of what being a "Christian" is. Don't get me started on how he puts his "family" first, unless his definition of family conveniently omits his parents and siblings. Setting aside his odious beliefs, my hatred of him stems from the way he's treated my grandmother, mother, and sister. 

Sadly, the mistreatment and emotional abuse he's put my mother through over the years hasn't led to her cutting him out of her life and/or a much-deserved rebuke. I was prompted to revisit my tenuous relationship with his family when she invited me to spend time with her this weekend at a conference they will also be attending and used their presence as a selling point. I had to remind her that I have zero intention of ever interacting with him (setting aside how much I really want to step foot anywhere near a group of people who are gathered to learn how to navigate the current moral ailments of society, of which the LGBT population is a chief concern--she seems to conveniently forget that I am a woman married to another woman).

Hey, maybe with his waning popularity he'll at least have time to acknowledge her presence at this event. When she attended the San Antonio Independent Christian Film Festival one year, he told her before coming, "people are traveling from hundreds and thousands of miles away to stand in line solely with the hopes of meeting ME, so I certainly hope you don't plan to take up any of my precious and valuable time".

He's a bigger a-hole than I thought. Wow.

I hope your mother is warm and welcoming to your wife. And I wish she would tell her brother where to go and how to get there.

[notkin]

Of your cousins (Victoria and Geoff's children specifically) if you were to pick one who you thought had the biggest likelihood of "breaking away" or, if not break away, at least the one who is most likely to eventually live their life the furthest from the "Botkin ideal" (even if it's after the (gag) "patriarch" passes,) who would you pick? 
Now that you are a member of FJ, other than topics related to your family, are there any other topics or families here that you are interested in reading/talking with other FJers about?  My other favorite thread topic here are the "Doug Phillips is a Tool" threads. 

Hmm, honestly probably none of them. Maybe Ben, purely based on the fact that his wife seems slightly more normal, which could be a positive influence. My mom speaks very highly of Audri, although I’ve never met her.

I don’t have any particular interest in any of the other dominionists. Doug Phillips is clearly a sociopath, so his downfall was delicious to see. Not sure how much he’s been discussed here, but I find Doug Wilson horrifying. I was somewhat familiar with him as my mom is a fan, and became a little more acquainted with his beliefs following the sex abuse scandals my cousin Katie reported on.

Other than that, it’s not a topic I willingly seek out. I was lucky enough to grow up only tangentially involved in the quiverfull movement (I was instead raised as an Evangelical), so now that I’ve extricated myself from the trauma of my own childhood, diving even deeper into the well of religious and spiritual abuse isn’t a huge interest of mine. I’m not opposed to it, and I’m very glad this forum and places like Patheos exist, because they not only help to expose these abusers/abuses but can also be a gathering place for survivors.

I guess what I’m trying to say is that I feel separate enough from the experiences of dominionist survivors to not claim it as my own experience but also having been a victim of my own religious trauma, not divorced enough from that experience to have ever had the desire to really dive into a lot of that stuff. I’m not sure if that makes any sense—it’s a bit of a difficult sentiment to fully articulate.

[hoipolloi]

1 hour ago, Marian the Librarian said:

Ah, dictatorial, controlling relatives who, not content with living their own lives, makes it their business to bully and micromanage everyone else's.

And who, perhaps not coincidentally, are often grifting losers who never hold or can't keep real jobs or work in real professions.

@notkin - he's even worse and more destructive than I'd thought, and that's saying something.

It would be absolute karma if his family left him alone to stew in his own hate and delusion for the rest of his life, but it sounds like some major Stockholm Syndrome stuff is going on. 

[Marian the Librarian]

2 hours ago, notkin said:

I guess what I’m trying to say is that I feel separate enough from the experiences of dominionist survivors to not claim it as my own experience but also having been a victim of my own religious trauma, not divorced enough from that experience to have ever had the desire to really dive into a lot of that stuff. I’m not sure if that makes any sense—it’s a bit of a difficult sentiment to fully articulate.

 

I think this makes perfect sense. It's like avoiding exposure to toxic radiation. (Or, as I've been know to counsel my colleagues in library-land, "Don't poke the crazy.") 

If this weekend's conference is Scott Brown's latest NCFIC "Hope For the Family" gathering, you're smart to stay far far away, IMHO. Scott's right up there with Geoff and Doug Phillips on the loathsomeness scale. These are not nice people.

[notkin]

42 minutes ago, Marian the Librarian said:

If this weekend's conference is Scott Brown's latest NCFIC "Hope For the Family" gathering, you're smart to stay far far away, IMHO. Scott's right up there with Geoff and Doug Phillips on the loathsomeness scale. These are not nice people.

 

Yep, that’s the one. I’m happily non-religious, so attending something like that would never be under consideration, but she had a hard time understanding why I didn’t at least want to stay at the Christian lodge it’s being held at so I could visit her while she’s in the area.
 

 

Edited October 23, 2019 by notkin

[notkin]

4 hours ago, VVV said:

He's a bigger a-hole than I thought. Wow.

I hope your mother is warm and welcoming to your wife. And I wish she would tell her brother where to go and how to get there.

I haven’t even delved into how he acted while my grandmother was dying. It gets worse.

i appreciate the wishes for my mom. She has a kind heart and is not a bad person, although it’s hard to reconcile that with her religious viewpoints and inability to stand up to her brother in situations like this. I view it as a form of complicity, but as I told my wife recently, “when the bar is set low from birth you have a hard time being disappointed”.