Botkin Alert. They are back on the conference circuit!

[uber frau]

12 hours ago, Giraffe said:

Idr anything from the 200 year plan other than he excluded his daughters because they didn’t count. As those with uteri, their ownership would be transferred to their future husbands and their future husbands families got to count them. I was still semi-fundi when I read that and even then I was appalled. 

To be fair, he did take the time to pray over newborn Anna Sophia and bless her ovaries.  

[SusanAtTheLastBattle]

20 hours ago, hoipolloi said:

Here's a fine, upstanding young man who's a member of Christ the King Church -- or was, at least.

The fire breather has given me my new favorite sign-off -- "In His grip"! ?

[MamaJunebug]

3 hours ago, uber frau said:

To be fair, he did take the time to pray over newborn Anna Sophia and bless her ovaries.  

Yes, he did that as his wife was near death after complications. Guess when Vicky recovered and birthed out 4 or 5 more, he figured he didn’t need good daughter-ovaries. His sons would provide the 1,000s of descendants - and they'd all be named Botkin.

3 hours ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

Wait. You have not done that yet?!

 

I did attend a Maxwell dog-and-pony but that was back when anybody was welcomed, without any vetting.  Abby & Betty were the only Nathan Maxwell daughters, to give some perspective. 

Nope — to infiltrate a closed conference! — THAT would be a coup. 

[Nolongeroppressed8.4]

On 7/25/2019 at 9:04 PM, Marian the Librarian said:

Ooh! Ooh! Great find, @Palimpsest, thanks!

Sounds to me like they're trying to swell their ranks a bit: "We need more allies and mentors ourselves." Methinks things are getting a bit stale in Middle Tennessee. Or maybe Geoff is hoping to marry off his daughters at last...

If only Natty Darnell hadn’t slipped up and said it didn’t matter which Botkin girl he got to marry after the lengthy interview / essay / approval time. And when forced to choose “but which one for real” he chose the one who didn’t like him and didn’t want the one who did like him. ???‍♀️? You can’t make this stuff up. 

22 hours ago, Marian the Librarian said:

Guidestar.org (a website that lists nonprofits) has no listing for Christ the King Church in Centerville, TN. Interesting.

Some of these kind (often entangled in the integrated movement and particularly those with gun fascinations) don’t think the church should answer to the government and thereby since technically receiving non-profit status comes with strings, they won’t apply for non-profit status. 

5 minutes ago, Nolongeroppressed8.4 said:

If only Natty Darnell hadn’t slipped up and said it didn’t matter which Botkin girl he got to marry after the lengthy interview / essay / approval time. And when forced to choose “but which one for real” he chose the one who didn’t like him and didn’t want the one who did like him. ???‍♀️? You can’t make this stuff up. 

Some of these kind (often entangled in the integrated movement and particularly those with gun fascinations) don’t think the church should answer to the government and thereby since technically receiving non-profit status comes with strings, they won’t apply for non-profit status. 

Oh and remember how VF had a non-profit for taking and spending all the money but then had the store in a for-profit company..... pretty sure that had to include some clever accounting.  

[Bethella]

4 hours ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

@Bethella how old are the Botkinettes? I think they have both passed 30 but Bethella is our Sage of the Ages. She knows all.

I don't have the most complete information on the Botkinettes, but

• Isaac is 38
• David is 36
• Anna Sofia is 33 (34 in September)
• Elizabeth is 31 (32 in August)
• Benjamin will be 30 in a few days
• Lucas is about 27
• Noah is about 23

[Palimpsest]

4 hours ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

@Bethella how old are the Botkinettes? I think they have both passed 30 but Bethella is our Sage of the Ages. She knows all.

I just checked @Bethella's magnificent Fruit of the Womb project but didn't find the Botkins.  Even Bethella can't keep up with everyone.

Fundie Wiki has Anna Sofia Botkin's birthdate as September 24, 1985 and Elizabeth Grace Botkin as August 19, 1987.  So just about to turn 34 and 32 respectively.

Also, while I don't remember where I found this, I was surprised to find out that Geoff Botkin is younger than Steve Maxwell.  I think Geoff and Vicky were born in 1954, which makes them 65.  Steve is 68 and Teri is about to turn 64.  Sarah Maxwell is 37.  

[Bethella]

Just now, Palimpsest said:

I just checked @Bethella's magnificent Fruit of the Womb project but didn't find the Botkins.  Even Bethella can't keep up with everyone

I didn't include them since they hadn't been very active for a while. 

[AnnaSofia]

In which Geoff extols the virtues of his new Hungarian friend...

Quote

 

President Trump has invited Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orbán to a working meeting in Washington on May 13th.  The agenda is not unusually controversial, but the world’s self-righteous media will explode with outrage because the president is publicly welcoming the one world figure more hated by the media than President Trump. 

Why does the media focus so much time, invective and column space on the leader of a small European nation?  Because Viktor Orbán is a thoughtful, principled Christian statesman. He has successfully and skillfully led his nation out of hard-left socialistic demoralization, and continually shames the globalist elite with unassailable arguments for the rule of law and national sovereignty.

 

 

[Marmion]

1 hour ago, Palimpsest said:

I just checked @Bethella's magnificent Fruit of the Womb project but didn't find the Botkins.  Even Bethella can't keep up with everyone.

Fundie Wiki has Anna Sofia Botkin's birthdate as September 24, 1985 and Elizabeth Grace Botkin as August 19, 1987.  So just about to turn 34 and 32 respectively.

Also, while I don't remember where I found this, I was surprised to find out that Geoff Botkin is younger than Steve Maxwell.  I think Geoff and Vicky were born in 1954, which makes them 65.  Steve is 68 and Teri is about to turn 64.  Sarah Maxwell is 37.  

I have found this website to be a helpful resource , when it comes to keeping up with notable fundamentalist families . https://fundamentalists.fandom.com/wiki/Botkin_Family  There will be times on FreeJinger when I don't know whom people are referring to , so I'll look them up on that site .

[Marmion]

1 hour ago, AnnaSofia said:

In which Geoff extols the virtues of his new Hungarian friend...

 

Viktor Orban is widely seen as being neo-fascist , even this conservative blog thinks so https://www.redstate.com/streiff/2014/07/29/hungary-limps-toward-fascism/ .  Like with my one other post in this thread , I might very well be stating the obvious , but for those whom might not be as knowledgeable about geopolitics , and political science in general , Orban's party , Fidesz  , is widely considered to be far-right .  To say the least , Geoffrey Botkin is heading in the same direction as Paul Schafer , as it pertains to having ties to right-wing extremists . 

[Dreadcrumbs]

23 minutes ago, Marmion said:

Viktor Orban is widely seen as being neo-fascist , even this conservative blog thinks so https://www.redstate.com/streiff/2014/07/29/hungary-limps-toward-fascism/ .  Like with my one other post in this thread , I might very well be stating the obvious , but for those whom might not be as knowledgeable about geopolitics , and political science in general , Orban's party , Fidesz  , is widely considered to be far-right .  To say the least , Geoffrey Botkin is heading in the same direction as Paul Schafer , as it pertains to having ties to right-wing extremists . 

I wonder if the writer of that article would still call Orbán a fascist in 2019. American conservative condemnation of fascism has pretty much ended now that they've decided antifascists are the real terrorists.

[nelliebelle1197]

57 minutes ago, Marmion said:

I have found this website to be a helpful resource , when it comes to keeping up with notable fundamentalist families . https://fundamentalists.fandom.com/wiki/Botkin_Family  There will be times on FreeJinger when I don't know whom people are referring to , so I'll look them up on that site .

Fundie Wiki is not always accurate, just FYI

[SusanAtTheLastBattle]

Geoff's characterization of Orban, quoted by @AnnaSofia:

Quote

 Why does the media focus so much time, invective and column space on the leader of a small European nation?  Because Viktor Orbán is a thoughtful, principled Christian statesman. He has successfully and skillfully led his nation out of hard-left socialistic demoralization, and continually shames the globalist elite with unassailable arguments for the rule of law and national sovereignty.

That is HARD anti-semitism. Something I hadn't seen so far in Botkinville, but an expected bedfellow.

[MamaJunebug]

3 hours ago, AnnaSofia said:

In which Geoff extols the virtues of his new Hungarian friend...

 

Christian? Then why does my Hungarian friend go by an ever-changing variety of names of FB? She laments that our media haven’t taken an interest in the violations thus guy commits. 

[Marmion]

1 hour ago, SusanAtTheLastBattle said:

Geoff's characterization of Orban, quoted by @AnnaSofia:

That is HARD anti-semitism. Something I hadn't seen so far in Botkinville, but an expected bedfellow.

Yeah , I noticed that too .  I was thinking that perhaps Botkin just wasn't exactly familiar with the nature of Hungarian politics . But if he was aware of what he was referring to , then I would find it to be quite a bit odd that he would find the third way social democracy of the  Socialist Party to be extreme , while lauding the economic nationalism of Fidesz . From the Wikipedia article ,  " On economic issues, the Socialists have often been greater advocates of liberal, free market policies than the conservative opposition, which has tended to favor more state interventionism in the economy through economic and price regulations, as well as through state ownership of key economic enterprises. The MSZP, in contrast, implemented a strong package of market reforms, austerity and privatization in 1995-96, called the Bokros package, when Hungary faced an economic and financial crisis. According to researchers, the elites of the Hungarian 'left' (MSZP and SZDSZ) have been differentiated from the 'right' by being more supportive of the classical neo-liberaleconomic policies, while the 'right' (especially extreme right) has advocated more interventionist policies. In contrast, issues like church and state and former communists show alignment along the traditional left-right spectrum.[7]  "   So it would seem that , if Geoffrey Botkin really is a National Socialist , he only opposes Communism more so for its perceived atheist character , than for its statism .   The latter of which he would find necessary to stave off  domination by the " international bankers" .  https://www.jta.org/2016/10/14/politics/donald-trumps-conspiracy-theories-stir-uneasy-echoes  But so far as I know , unlike with the before mentioned Paul Schafer , and his Colonia Dignidad , the Botkins , and their congregation do not live communally in a compound . At most , they might just pool their resources into a homeschool co-op  .   As an aside , if Geoffrey Botkin has turned against laissez faire capitalism , in favor of national conservative  economic nationalism  , I expect this will cause a rift between himself and the Christian Reconstructionists . 

Edited July 27, 2019 by Marmion

[CyborgKin]

I remember the Botkinettes' ages cos one's a little younger than me and the other's a little older.

I'm torn between feeling safe that I'm in a distant country to them and their guns, and pity that it means it's not practical for me to check out this conference.

[Spinosaurus]

I came late to this story and apologise if this question has been answered a million times already, but why do they call their business 'T-Rex Arms'?  T. rex had very small front limbs, if I remember correctly.  It wouldn't have been able to hold a gun properly.

(The more cynical might argue that since it must have had genitalia in proportion to its body size it wouldn't have felt the need to carry a huge gun everywhere anyway.  I couldn't possibly comment.)

[Howl]

1 hour ago, Spinosaurus said:

 T. rex had very small front limbs

It's just a clever little play on words, by those wacky, fun-loving Botkins! 

Lucas Botkin discusses this in an interview for The Loadout Room (Hardcore Gear and Adventure for Men!): 

Quote

We need to know why it is called T.Rex Arms, how’d you come up with the name?

I’m afraid there is no amazing inspirational story behind the name. My younger brother and I were at a table one morning talking over names. I was rattling off various animal names combined with defense industry type words. When T-Rex arms came to mind I said it as a joke. But he thought it was great. I did some polling with other people and everyone agreed it was probably a good choice– easy to remember and humorous. I wasn’t even a huge fan of the name at first. But it grew on me, and that’s what I went with.

By the way, if you click on the link above, you'll be treated to that iconic photo of Lucas Botkin all kitted out with rifle, gun, comms, and that STRAP that gently caresses the margins of his genitalia while he's firing off big bullets. 

Edited July 28, 2019 by Howl

[Spinosaurus]

"The Loadout Room: Hardcore Gear and Adventure for Men"?

That is the gayest fucking title I have ever seen.

[nickelodeon]

18 hours ago, SusanAtTheLastBattle said:

That is HARD anti-semitism. Something I hadn't seen so far in Botkinville, but an expected bedfellow.

Yup, that “globalist elite” bit is the most baldfaced dogwhistle ever. Gross.

[Monstrous Black Sheep]

I'm here to weigh in as far as racism in Botkin/VF circles goes.

I grew up in these circles, and I didn't realize that they were racist until I left and started gaining perspective. For instance, VF (and material they encouraged and distributed) claimed that slavery was a good thing, and that western society is superior to other nationalities because of its "christian heritage." White tradition is to be preserved at all costs, because it was the legacy handed down by our ancestors.

Kinism is strong in many of these circles. (Kinism is just racism dressed up in twisted Scriptures to make it "biblical.") There are many who stand against it, but also many who buy into it. It's a big deal in theonomic/reconstructionist circles, and there have been a lot of debates and even church splits over it in the past few years.

Many theonomic  people seem to be waking up to the abuse of women and POC in the church and society, and then stepping up and advocating, which is encouraging to me.

[Palimpsest]

5 hours ago, Monstrous Black Sheep said:

I grew up in these circles, and I didn't realize that they were racist until I left and started gaining perspective. For instance, VF (and material they encouraged and distributed) claimed that slavery was a good thing, and that western society is superior to other nationalities because of its "christian heritage." White tradition is to be preserved at all costs, because it was the legacy handed down by our ancestors.

This is true.  We have examined the VF catalog, and the pro-slavery crap in their videos, and listened to DPIAT and others hold forth at various revisionist history conferences,

Also, don't feel bad about needing time to gain perspective.  You are a lot further along the recovery road than some of the other VF survivors who have visited us here.  @formergothardite has gone endless rounds with a couple.  I lack the patience to argue with them.

5 hours ago, Monstrous Black Sheep said:

Kinism is strong in many of these circles. (Kinism is just racism dressed up in twisted Scriptures to make it "biblical.") There are many who stand against it, but also many who buy into it. It's a big deal in theonomic/reconstructionist circles, and there have been a lot of debates and even church splits over it in the past few years.

Yes.  I have always wondered how deep Kinism is within theonomic/reconstructionist and VF circles.  It seemed a big thing in the inner circles.  See Natty Darnell. 

5 hours ago, Monstrous Black Sheep said:

Many theonomic  people seem to be waking up to the abuse of women and POC in the church and society, and then stepping up and advocating, which is encouraging to me.

I am glad to hear it.  Are any of these people publicly recanting and can you point to any of them by name?  I need some positive news too!

[Monstrous Black Sheep]

1 hour ago, Palimpsest said:

This is true.  We have examined the VF catalog, and the pro-slavery crap in their videos, and listened to DPIAT and others hold forth at various revisionist history conferences,

Also, don't feel bad about needing time to gain perspective.  You are a lot further along the recovery road than some of the other VF survivors who have visited us here.  @formergothardite has gone endless rounds with a couple.  I lack the patience to argue with them. 

Yes.  I have always wondered how deep Kinism is within theonomic/reconstructionist and VF circles.  It seemed a big thing in the inner circles.  See Natty Darnell.  

I am glad to hear it.  Are any of these people publicly recanting and can you point to any of them by name?  I need some positive news too! 

 

I know a lot of kids who grew up in VF who have left to varying degrees, few of whom were famous enough for me to name them. One of the big names was, of course, Ashley Schnarr (now Easter). I remember following her stay at home daughter blog when she was fundy, and now I follow her as an abuse advocate! She's such a ray of sunlight. I'm so proud of her.

I know a lot of people who are slowly coming out of patriarchy to varying degrees. I'm definitely one of the furthest out, but there's a lot of us. We are, as Ken Ham dolefully put it, "already gone."

 

 

[CyborgKin]

@Monstrous Black Sheep speaking of Ken Ham, do you know of any who've left or moved away from patriarchy/VF while staying in Creationism?

[Monstrous Black Sheep]

11 hours ago, CyborgKin said:

@Monstrous Black Sheep speaking of Ken Ham, do you know of any who've left or moved away from patriarchy/VF while staying in Creationism?

Yes. Most of the young (and even older) people I know who grew up like I did in VF have remained pretty fundamentalist/evangelical Christian. Many are even still theonomist. They all remain young earth creationist.

I also know, through Facebook groups and such, a lot of young people like me who are questioning or have left Christianity entirely. Some of them grew up in VF, but not quite as many.