Bates 27: I Want My Bates TV

[Kelsey]

4 hours ago, Charliemae said:

Any amount of choice these women have, is an illusion.  If they wanted to ware pants or be skirts only, they would still have to filter it through their husband.   

I'm aware of how it works. I'm just saying that in my mind if Bobby has said Tori IDGAF if you wear pants and she continues to be skirts only- then she has made the choice to be skirts only. I think that only Jessa, Lauren, and Tori have possibly been given the go ahead to wear pants but have chosen to be skirts only. (Obviously speculation because I don't know if Bobby, Ben, or Josiah have given their permission- I just can't see those three in particular insisting on skirts or caring one way or another)

I do think it's ridiculous that anyone needs the go ahead to wear pants.

[nolongerIFBx]

4 hours ago, Bobology said:

I quoted so I could call "normal" Christians -- heathens! -- but now I'm wondering what the fundies really believe about so-called normal christians. Do they recognize they are christians at all? Do they think of them as half-heathens? Surely they don't see normal christians as equal to them or in the eyes of god, do they?

In my experience, they were our brothers and sisters. No doubt a lot of them were going to heaven but they loved their pants and worldly music more than they loved God (whether by choice or because they hadn't been taught better) so we didn't spend a lot of time associating with them or we might be influenced to become like them and we certainly would be making a choice to become back-slidden and not right with God because we did know better.

[RosyDaisy]

There isn't a doubt in my mind that Kelly is your typical southern matriarch to the core. There is not a submissive bone in that woman's body. And, I don't think Gil has the ability to lead anything without her.

 

ETA: I don't think any of the Bates sons or sons-in-law have an issue with pants. Skirts/dresses only among fundies has been on the decline for quite some time now.

[feministxtian]

According to the Bates...I'm hellbound for sure. Feminist, former working wife/mother, liberal AF, liberal Christian, currently wearing shorts and tank top (no bra, it's too fucking hot). NOT a drumpf fan whatsoever, pro-choice (and can give the biblical context of the definition of "life"). mixed race, family that looks like the fucking United Nations, curse like a sailor when properly provoked (or having a conversation)....

Yeah, they'd look at me like I had 3 heads and possessed by satan...not that I give a fuck though...

[AussieKrissy]

20 hours ago, victoriasponge said:

But does she? Her husband has a choice.

No idea if in reality it was her or Bobby that decided she was going to keep being skirts only (as far as we know) but... yeah, might not actually be a choice.

She does look like a muppet sat like that though.

Yeah I was being facetious hence the “ “  

[JermajestyDuggar]

I could possibly see Erin or Tori wearing pants in the future for practical reasons only. But I think Michael will wear skirts for a very very long time. She just seems to like them and is more comfortable in them. 

[CarrotCake]

16 hours ago, Kelsey said:

I'm aware of how it works. I'm just saying that in my mind if Bobby has said Tori IDGAF if you wear pants and she continues to be skirts only- then she has made the choice to be skirts only. I think that only Jessa, Lauren, and Tori have possibly been given the go ahead to wear pants but have chosen to be skirts only. (Obviously speculation because I don't know if Bobby, Ben, or Josiah have given their permission- I just can't see those three in particular insisting on skirts or caring one way or another)

I do think it's ridiculous that anyone needs the go ahead to wear pants.

But what if, theoretically, Bobby really wants Tori to wear pants (for whatever reason). Then Tori does not have the choice to stay with skirts only.

 

[Kelsey]

2 hours ago, CarrotCake said:

But what if, theoretically, Bobby really wants Tori to wear pants (for whatever reason). Then Tori does not have the choice to stay with skirts only.

 

As far as I know, Bobby has never said whether or not he thinks he's in charge of Tori's outfits. It is Gil and Kelly's belief that he is- but we don't know if Bobby (and Tori for that matter) believes that as well. Bobby didn't understand courting or chaperones when he met Tori so he was obviously not raised with as many of the legalistic beliefs. He probably does share the main beliefs (abortion, gays, etc) but might not care about the more legalistic ones (pants, haircuts). He's never said so we don't know.

Given that Kelton and Bobby are besties and Josie wears jeans- I feel like Bobby doesn't care but Tori wants to wear skirts. (Obvs speculation)

Edited August 14, 2019 by Kelsey
add more thoughts

[rebeccawriter01]

2 hours ago, Kelsey said:

As far as I know, Bobby has never said whether or not he thinks he's in charge of Tori's outfits. It is Gil and Kelly's belief that he is- but we don't know if Bobby (and Tori for that matter) believes that as well. Bobby didn't understand courting or chaperones when he met Tori so he was obviously not raised with as many of the legalistic beliefs. He probably does share the main beliefs (abortion, gays, etc) but might not care about the more legalistic ones (pants, haircuts). He's never said so we don't know.

Given that Kelton and Bobby are besties and Josie wears jeans- I feel like Bobby doesn't care but Tori wants to wear skirts. (Obvs speculation)

I've kind of wondered if part of the skirt versus pants thing stems from the education at Crown. Erin and Tori both took the traditional classes at Crown of music ministry and education. They had to be on campus each day and were in traditional classroom settings where skirts and dresses for women were and are the norm. Josie attended Crown, but in the trades department that has more of an outside influence (not totally unfundy) where she would find more women in pants and various styles from working out in the field (salons) than her sisters would.

I don't know the actual curriculum, but I would bet that Erin and Tori may have been exposed to more instructors and lectures about proper attire for women versus Josie who was simply enrolled for a certificate program. I could be wrong on that, but that's just my initial thought. 

Josie, Alyssa, and Carlin also seem to have more of a fashion interest than their sisters. While Erin might have done her hair tutorials, those three are always changing hairstyles and trying new outfits that are different (for them). I don't know how long it was before Alyssa started wearing pants after marriage, but Carlin must have packed them for the honeymoon and Josie too. 

Tori has never seemed that interested in all that. She used to complain when the rest of the girls wanted to dress up. So I speculate her affinity for skirts and dresses rests more in what she is used to wearing than what she wants to wear or thinks would look good. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

Ok so if you guys want to talk more about fundie sisters wearing skirts/pants I will bring up the Richardson sisters as an example. 

Seven sisters all in a row and then their youngest two brothers. All the sisters used to head cover and wear homemade frumpers. Nowadays, the oldest two sisters still wear head coverings and dresses. The oldest wears frumpers sometimes but she will also wear a t-shirt and skirt. The second oldest wears frumpers always. Then there are the middle three sisters. They all wear pants and don’t head cover anymore. One has a boyfriend. Then there’s the youngest two. They are still young. I believe they are 17 and 19. They wear modern modest clothing. So they aren’t wearing pants, but they aren’t really wearing frumpers either. Their head coverings are mostly head bands. So they are kind of in between. I wouldn’t be surprised if they eventually put on a pair of pants. 

I am using them as an example because it kind of reflects the way the Bates girls are doing things. The oldest girls in each family are still holding on to that modesty look while a lot of the younger ones are doing away with it. 

[AussieKrissy]

I wonder if their "boutique" will ever sell pants and only the married women can model them?

[Melissa1977]

6 hours ago, AussieKrissy said:

I wonder if their "boutique" will ever sell pants and only the married women can model them?

The kind of dresses Bates sell are very very VERY cheap to produce. The pattern can be cut and sew in the blink of an eye and the fabric looks cheap on pictures. Dresses have not decorations, embroideries, nor even zippers or buttons (as far as I see). 

On the opposite side, even cheap pants are way more difficult to sew, so take more time to do and fabric must a be a bit better, so they are more expensive items.

My point is that Bates are buying the cheapest clothes made in poor countries and selling them for the maximum profit. And pants or even smart dresses or blouses don't fit their business. They can say it's about modesty, but financial reasons are pretty obvious.

[formergothardite]

I think they Seven Sisters had way more freedom of choice than the Bates ever have had.  Can you see a Bates daughter saying she wanted to be a pilot and then being allowed to go do it? Or not just getting some EMS training like some of the Bates did but actually doing it as a job? Can you see them being allowed to jump out of bed in the middle of the night to answer EMS calls by themselves? Or deciding to become a phlebotomist and gushing about how they love spending time in the ER? Or choosing to travel by themselves to live six months in another country? 

 The Bates daughters all follow a fairly similar path and daughters like poor Katie who wanted something else are quickly shoved back in line. Looking at the Seven Sisters really show how oppressed the Bates daughters are. They have such limited choices and non-approved choices are crushed. They have to go to an approved college, to study a very limited list of approved interests, then promptly get married to an approved man and start having babies.  

 

[JermajestyDuggar]

4 hours ago, formergothardite said:

I think they Seven Sisters had way more freedom of choice than the Bates ever have had.  Can you see a Bates daughter saying she wanted to be a pilot and then being allowed to go do it? Or not just getting some EMS training like some of the Bates did but actually doing it as a job? Can you see them being allowed to jump out of bed in the middle of the night to answer EMS calls by themselves? Or deciding to become a phlebotomist and gushing about how they love spending time in the ER? Or choosing to travel by themselves to live six months in another country? 

 The Bates daughters all follow a fairly similar path and daughters like poor Katie who wanted something else are quickly shoved back in line. Looking at the Seven Sisters really show how oppressed the Bates daughters are. They have such limited choices and non-approved choices are crushed. They have to go to an approved college, to study a very limited list of approved interests, then promptly get married to an approved man and start having babies.  

 

If I’m remembering correctly, they used to live by the SAHD rules until one of them became depressed. And then the family changed their ideas on it. Thankfully. 

[formergothardite]

1 hour ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

If I’m remembering correctly, they used to live by the SAHD rules until one of them became depressed. And then the family changed their ideas on it. Thankfully. 

The daughters did live at home but got to make career choices. The one who was so depressed decided she wanted to be an EMT and drive an ambulance when she was 17 and her parents had no problem with it. The one who is a pilot always told her parents she didn't want a drivers license she wanted a pilot one. Her mom helped her get contacts to join the woman of aviation group. There is one who is a midwife who moved away for her studies. 

I'm not saying they weren't fundie, but they had so many more opportunities to make life choices and decide who they wanted to be compared to the Bates. When you look at them it really shows how limited the Bates daughters are. Sure the Bates sons get to be pilots but what if a daughter had said she wanted to be a pilot? Or wanted to be an EMT or wanted to move away for for her education? There is no way Gil and Kelly would have allowed it. 

[Perrierwithlemon]

6 hours ago, formergothardite said:

They have to go to an approved college, to study a very limited list of approved interests, then promptly get married to an approved man and start having babies.  

This. This is the reason I ended going to my state's top public college. The small/conservative Christian colleges don't have good programs (in their narrow selection of majors) and the names often aren't reputable (or sometimes even accredited!) enough to get into a good grad school. The bigger, more liberal Christian colleges are just way too expensive for it to be justifiable (and still don't have my major). At my public university, I have a broad range of topics to study, a reputable name with a large alumni network, and tons of opportunities. I'm thankful that my parents have been so supportive of me going to a very secular school in a such a left (both geographically and politically) state. I was homeschooled K-12 and feel that not enough homeschoolers (or at least the ones I know) realize how great public (in)state universities can be -- both financially and opportunity-wise.

It all makes me realize how oppressed the Bates' choices are in their colleges. It seems like Crown is one of their only options. But I would think that since Tennessee is a red state, even University of Tennessee would be more conservative than my university of *left state* (fun fact: Dave Ramsey is an alumnus). Plus, it would cost them less than half to attend (not considering scholarships). 

I can only hope that the Bates sisters can still explore different topics and fields of study in college, even though it would be to a smaller agree. I think that is a very important part of life in discovering your own interests and developing a sense of self -- something that not many fundie girls and women seem to have, or even get the opportunity to properly develop. 

I feel like the Bates sisters and fundie daughters in general have been conditioned from a very young age to have a limited scope of interest. And that could be part of the problem of why they all gravitate towards Midwifery, Education, Music, and Cosmetology. It's like their own little version of STEM! ?

[formergothardite]

30 minutes ago, Perrierwithlemon said:

It all makes me realize how oppressed the Bates' choices are in their colleges. It seems like Crown is one of their only options.

Crown doesn't have a nursing program so that is probably why Katie had those dreams crushed. There is no way the Bates would get the freedom to pursue things even other fundies get to pursue, especially since Kelly seems dead set in getting them into a relationship as young as possible. None of the daughters have ended their relationships.  I have a feeling that a son doing it is one thing but a daughter ending their "special friend" relationship would be another. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

3 hours ago, formergothardite said:

Crown doesn't have a nursing program so that is probably why Katie had those dreams crushed. There is no way the Bates would get the freedom to pursue things even other fundies get to pursue, especially since Kelly seems dead set in getting them into a relationship as young as possible. None of the daughters have ended their relationships.  I have a feeling that a son doing it is one thing but a daughter ending their "special friend" relationship would be another. 

I think you are completely right about the double standard of a broken courtship in the Bates family. It makes me sad for any Bates girl who enters into a courtship with a boy that is totally wrong for them.

Edited August 15, 2019 by JermajestyDuggar

[JermajestyDuggar]

I hope Katie doesn’t make it to the courtship stage with Travis if he’s all wrong for her. I really do hope they take things slow. They are so young. My nephew is just starting his senior year of high school and he has a girlfriend. I can’t even imagine him contemplating marrying her anytime soon! His mom still has to pull his ass out of bed in the morning so he’s not late for school! 

[JanasTattooParlor]

Did y’all see that Katie is now shilling fabletics and their leggings on her Instagram? I was surprised considering she said she bought a few pairs of leggings and loved them. She wouldn’t be able to wear them unless it were under a skirt though since she still lives at home. Made me think that maybe Kelly and Gil might allow her to wear them if she’s at home but just not in public. 

[VBOY9977]

4 hours ago, JanasTattooParlor said:

Did y’all see that Katie is now shilling fabletics and their leggings on her Instagram? I was surprised considering she said she bought a few pairs of leggings and loved them. She wouldn’t be able to wear them unless it were under a skirt though since she still lives at home. Made me think that maybe Kelly and Gil might allow her to wear them if she’s at home but just not in public. 

I think she’ll be allowed to wear them in public but under a skirt. I remember when the Bates went to that adventure park where (Bobby asked Gil’s permission to marry Tori), all of the women were wearing skirts and leggings, even Whitney

[Perrierwithlemon]

On 8/15/2019 at 10:57 AM, Perrierwithlemon said:

But I would think that since Tennessee is a red state, even University of Tennessee would be more conservative than my university of *left state* (fun fact: Dave Ramsey is an alumnus).

Rereading this made me realize it sounds like Dave Ramsey is an alum of my university. I meant to say that he went to University of Tennessee. ?

6 hours ago, JanasTattooParlor said:

Made me think that maybe Kelly and Gil might allow her to wear them if she’s at home but just not in public. 

I wondered that too, but I highly doubt it. I wonder how she styles the leggings -- under skirts, dresses, long shirts or sweaters, etc.? Maybe she wears them as pajamas? I also think that maybe Fabletics sent her some leggings whether she wanted them or not because that's what they seem to be known for. Until I saw Katie's Instagram story, I didn't even know they sold other things like bags!

[JMO]

They posted about Abby Paine's wedding. That her testimony is so precious and that she was the best tutor for their kids. In with the pictures there's one of Trace with his girlfriend.  And Brooklyn has the highest head of curls. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

Anyone who does not know these two would think they are high school sweethearts right? Nope. Brother and sister. Fundies are so weird. 

[Italiangirl]

I can't decide if the post deserves more a wtf or I agree reaction, I would have swear they was at the very least bff if not hs sweethearts! Yikes fundies really are weird 

Are trolling us all or they are just so clueless? I can't believe they don't realise how many of their pose come off as weird or totally inappropriate