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Bates 27: I Want My Bates TV


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6 hours ago, just_ordinary said:

While I agree the chances are high there is a courtship to be announced I don’t think going private is proof of that.

If I appeared in a public photo and suddenly a bunch of strangers online start to dig in my account and look into my family and my education I would be terrified as hell. I do wonder if what we do comes dangerously close to doxxing (search for and publish private or identifying information on the internet). We might miss the malicious  intent but that is actually not the decisive criteria. 

I also don’t think it would be a problem if they had to wait shorter or longer than Carlin and Evan. They never clarified why they had to wait iirc. And even though Gil and Kelly aren’t the most interested parents (understatement, I know) I think they do realise that they have to look at the individuals/ individual couple to make sure they support a match that won’t bring them bad publicity but look all perfect.  They did an surprisingly well job so far. At least as far as what’s in the open.

I am pretty sure the reason they gave as why Carlin and Evan couldnt marry yet was because Evan was in school still. Josie was allowed to marry much younger, but because her bf is older he was already working so it was ok. 

I doubt that the fact that Carlin had to finish herself school was a factor at all, since both Erin and Tori married while still studying, and Alyssa even droped out altogether to marry.

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If Trace is also pre-courting, who do you think will get to announce their relationship first? Katie or Trace?  I think Trace.

And when Lawson turned 27 3 days ago, do you think Gil and Kelly sat him down & told him it was high time he start really working--and courting?

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Katie’s possible boyfriend’s Instagram was private the day she posted that Instagram story and tagged him. I know because I clicked it to try and snoop, he made it briefly public afterward and clearly wasn’t a fan of it. Which I can’t blame him if he is at all a private person and suddenly is being inundated with Bates fan craziness.

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I kind of think it's the Bates' responsibility to let people know what will happen after they tag a special someone on instagram. They literally just did this with Chaney. It seems like social media convo should happen right along with the DTR convo. 

This family just launched a new series of their christian apparel line, so I wonder if they are okay taking the extra attention toward their business. 

I definitely think we have some firm lines that are good about doing research. I love internet research, but I definitely don't post everything I find out. I know nothing on a private account is allowed to be shared here. I would never (and I'm sure it's not allowed) post anything about someones address or any contact information. (Which is what doxxing is.) Wondering where the potential boyfriend a reality tv personality is going to college doesn't feel like an invasion to me, but ymmv.

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2 hours ago, HereticHick said:

If Trace is also pre-courting, who do you think will get to announce their relationship first? Katie or Trace?  I think Trace.

And when Lawson turned 27 3 days ago, do you think Gil and Kelly sat him down & told him it was high time he start really working--and courting?

It’s really hard to say with Lawson. They know he does just fine as a single fundie dreamboat. He gets plenty of attention from the humpers. I think they are smart enough to know that after he is married, he might not get as much attention from single fundie maidens. However they would get a huge boost in ratings and popularity if he started a relationship with some beautiful fundie girl. But they might not want a public broken courtship like with Zach and Nathan. 

Edited by JermajestyDuggar
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@theotherelise the definition of doxxing is not specifying on the subject of where to draw the line (contact information) as far as I am aware. That obviously opens the concept up for interpretations. 

I, for my part, think it’s not ok to try to get personal information on the potential whatever on someone you (general you) don’t know to post it on a public board. Apart from contact information that includes where someone goes to school or relatives and friends. Just because someone has a public SM does not equal fair game for posting about someone on the internet without their consent. Appearing on tv opens up those boundaries because then the person willingly shares their existence/interests/believes with an anonymous audience. Using your SM to actively promote things (the emerge of Influencers have blurred the lines for example) also changed my perception. But there are still things that can be off-limit/be recognised as private even for public personalities. So, when they announce the courtship and he is fine appearing on their show, public SM accounts he is willingly giving up some of those privacy privileges.

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1 hour ago, just_ordinary said:

So, when they announce the courtship and he is fine appearing on their show, public SM accounts he is willingly giving up some of those privacy privileges.

Quoting myself because the comment couldn’t be edited anymore:

I should have written privacy rights as I believe privacy is indeed a right and not just a privilege.

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13 hours ago, just_ordinary said:

While I agree the chances are high there is a courtship to be announced I don’t think going private is proof of that.

If I appeared in a public photo and suddenly a bunch of strangers online start to dig in my account and look into my family and my education I would be terrified as hell. I do wonder if what we do comes dangerously close to doxxing (search for and publish private or identifying information on the internet). We might miss the malicious  intent but that is actually not the decisive criteria. 

I also don’t think it would be a problem if they had to wait shorter or longer than Carlin and Evan. They never clarified why they had to wait iirc. And even though Gil and Kelly aren’t the most interested parents (understatement, I know) I think they do realise that they have to look at the individuals/ individual couple to make sure they support a match that won’t bring them bad publicity but look all perfect.  They did an surprisingly well job so far. At least as far as what’s in the open.

I do agree although I think this is more Gil then Kelly. We've seen Kelly pressuring Brandon for a proposal even though they were courting and knew the only reason why it didn't happen was he was taking some class and they weren't allowed to be engaged and then wanted to earn some money after it ended. There was never any doubt that Brandon wasn't going to propose and his reasons for waiting made sense (well mostly the thing about the guys in the class not suppose to be engaged was weird) and yet Kelly was still being crazy about it. Trying to pressure Tori into getting married before she graduated despite Tori wanting to wait until after she was finished with classes. I think she also question Bobby about courting and/or proposing I forget which one but I think courting because he was going to school and later pressuring him to get trailer or something when he moved to TN. I really think Gil's the one who makes them wait until the boy has a job and money. 

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14 minutes ago, JordynDarby5 said:

I really think Gil's the one who makes them wait until the boy has a job and money. 

Which is good I guess, but so so hypocritical of him. 

After all, the sooner they get married, the sooner they can have kids to help them out mooch off of. 

Edited by neurogirl
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IBLP suggests (mandates) that a man have a job and be ready to financially provide for the wife and future children. From the IBLP website:

"He should determine how he will provide for his future family’s basic needs, such as food, clothing, shelter, and transportation. Prior to the union of Adam and Eve, God made provision in the Garden for all of their basic needs. (See Luke 14:28–30.)"

Additionally, they state that:

"A Short Courtship Is Best

There are practical reasons for keeping courtship short and not extending it longer than necessary. Obviously, as the couple’s hearts are knit together through their deepening friendship, it will become more and more challenging to manage emotional attachment and remain objective in the decision-making process. When they both sense God’s direction to move forward to the commitments of engagement and marriage, and this direction is confirmed by their authorities, they should joyfully take those steps.

A long courtship can become confusing and frustrating, often leading to disillusionment. Also, the deeper the friendship becomes, the more painful a separation will be, if the courtship does not lead to marriage. The couple should seriously, earnestly seek for God’s direction, and the parents or mentors involved should not unnecessarily lengthen the process of courtship."

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1 hour ago, rebeccawriter01 said:

When they both sense God’s direction to move forward to the commitments of engagement and marriage, and this direction is confirmed by their authorities, they should joyfully take those steps.

This caused all sorts of rankling in my being

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10 hours ago, Seculardaisy said:

Katie’s possible boyfriend’s Instagram was private the day she posted that Instagram story and tagged him. I know because I clicked it to try and snoop, he made it briefly public afterward and clearly wasn’t a fan of it. Which I can’t blame him if he is at all a private person and suddenly is being inundated with Bates fan craziness.

I went to his Instagram, at that time it was private. I requested to follow him in the off-chance he would accept it. He accepted my request minutes later.

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5 hours ago, neurogirl said:

Which is good I guess, but so so hypocritical of him. 

After all, the sooner they get married, the sooner they can have kids to help them out mooch off of. 

I agree this is v. hypocritical of Gil, I also think that maybe, just maybeeeeee he has learned from his own choices, and even if in their extremely restricted little world, he wants his daughters to be supported, even if they aren’t doing the majority of bringing in income as their husbands (or husbands to be) are.  Also, the money from the show is another factor. But the idea is still mainly the same. The husband supports and provides for the wife. 

I know, I know this is no glowing review on Gil’s parenting by any means, but I can kind of see why he may push for that to be the goal for the husbands or his sons marrying. Maybe Zach forced him to get a fucking clue and wise up, him being the eldest son and what we know of his slight but still significant pushback on Gil and Kelly’s dating rules/has a job outside their orbit etc. 

just my two cents. But I am in no way saying Gil isn’t the hypocritical grifter he always was; that is undeniable. 

Edited by Feministe9000
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Traces relationship seems a lot further along than this possible one for Katie. Plus Katie and this guys age, I bet they keep it hush hush for quiet a while. I bet we hear something official from trace in the fall

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4 hours ago, rebeccawriter01 said:

Additionally, they state that:

"A Short Courtship Is Best

There are practical reasons for keeping courtship short and not extending it longer than necessary. Obviously, as the couple’s hearts are knit together through their deepening friendship, it will become more and more challenging to manage emotional attachment and remain objective in the decision-making process. When they both sense God’s direction to move forward to the commitments of engagement and marriage, and this direction is confirmed by their authorities, they should joyfully take those steps.

A long courtship can become confusing and frustrating, often leading to disillusionment. Also, the deeper the friendship becomes, the more painful a separation will be, if the courtship does not lead to marriage. The couple should seriously, earnestly seek for God’s direction, and the parents or mentors involved should not unnecessarily lengthen the process of courtship."

Well, if you become disillusioned with your boyfriend/girlfriend because you've been courting for more than three months, maybe that's God's way of telling you that YOU SHOULDN'T FUCKING MARRY THEM.

What a pile of bullshit.

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1 hour ago, JillyO said:

Well, if you become disillusioned with your boyfriend/girlfriend because you've been courting for more than three months, maybe that's God's way of telling you that YOU SHOULDN'T FUCKING MARRY THEM.

What a pile of bullshit.

Also, I love the line about how painful it will be as the people grow close over the course of a long courtship and then realize it won't work out and separate. As opposed to the walk in the park that is being a year into a marriage with a baby on the way and realizing this isn't the right person? They always assume marriage vows are some magic wand that just makes all issues disappear. 

I will never understand fast courtships/engagements. While we always have its defenders come out of the woodwork on here when the topic comes up, no one has yet offered even a halfway decent defense of it. 

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13 hours ago, JillyO said:

Well, if you become disillusioned with your boyfriend/girlfriend because you've been courting for more than three months, maybe that's God's way of telling you that YOU SHOULDN'T FUCKING MARRY THEM.

What a pile of bullshit.

I immediately thought of the Bates girls who essentially assumed that any date was going to be a proposal and prodded, begged, and beseeched their men to give them the ring. Not to mention that Kelly Jo was just as bad or worse with her questioning these guys with the ink still wet on their diplomas about when they plan on proposing. I believe it was at Bobby's graduation party that Kelly Jo was asking him when was he planning to propose, as "people had been asking." What people, Kelly Jo? What people were so anxious for them to get married other than she and Tori?

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5 hours ago, rebeccawriter01 said:

I immediately thought of the Bates girls who essentially assumed that any date was going to be a proposal and prodded, begged, and beseeched their men to give them the ring. Not to mention that Kelly Jo was just as bad or worse with her questioning these guys with the ink still wet on their diplomas about when they plan on proposing. I believe it was at Bobby's graduation party that Kelly Jo was asking him when was he planning to propose, as "people had been asking." What people, Kelly Jo? What people were so anxious for them to get married other than she and Tori?

Its crazy watching them do that. I really don't know why. They know courtship means marriage is next and they know the courtship model. Wait until the boy has a job and can support their daughter. That's what they tell us. Its the better way to go right? So why is Kelly pressuring Brandon and Bobby? What's the point? She knows why they want to wait. Same with Tori. There's no reason why Tori couldn't have married a year later. When Tori won't shut up about the ring on the day Bobby is going to propose. Why? She knew he was going to propose.

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I think if you have a public figure tag you on their insta, you're asking for attention. Essentially, you become a public figure yourself at that moment. That tag was an announcement. I would assume they discussed it, but anyone would know their account would blow up after something like that. If it was just a person in the picture without a tag, that's a different story, and in that case I think stalking them down and posting info about them publicly would be a little creepy. But if you're dating a reality tv personality you must realize that giving up your privacy goes with that.  

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On 7/30/2019 at 10:36 PM, rebeccawriter01 said:

There are practical reasons for keeping courtship short and not extending it longer than necessary. Obviously, as the couple’s hearts are knit together through their deepening friendship, it will become more and more challenging to manage emotional attachment and remain objective in the decision-making process. When they both sense God’s direction to move forward to the commitments of engagement and marriage, and this direction is confirmed by their authorities, they should joyfully take those steps.

This just displays such a misunderstanding (or perhaps deliberate perversion) of decision making.  Feelings do not keep you from making some objective decision based on the evidence.  Feelings are valuable evidence for decision making, especially decision making about your future spouse.  But of course the cult does its best to crush any attempt at independent decision making.  Really you should just accept that if your dad/husband/Gothard wants it, it's God's will.  ?

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1 hour ago, JordynDarby5 said:

Its crazy watching them do that. I really don't know why. They know courtship means marriage is next and they know the courtship model. Wait until the boy has a job and can support their daughter. That's what they tell us. Its the better way to go right? So why is Kelly pressuring Brandon and Bobby? What's the point? She knows why they want to wait. Same with Tori. There's no reason why Tori couldn't have married a year later. When Tori won't shut up about the ring on the day Bobby is going to propose. Why? She knew he was going to propose.

Maybe Tori was just nervous? Getting engaged is a big step for a lot of people and marriage is pretty much the only thing she was raised to aspire to. I know some people who babble on mindlessly when they’re nervous and my husband was super nervous right before proposing even though he already knew I would say yes, so that might have been what happened to Tori.

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17 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

Maybe Tori was just nervous? Getting engaged is a big step for a lot of people and marriage is pretty much the only thing she was raised to aspire to. I know some people who babble on mindlessly when they’re nervous and my husband was super nervous right before proposing even though he already knew I would say yes, so that might have been what happened to Tori.

Its possible. It could be nerves and/or excitement. But I'm just not sure. Its kind of hard to tell because she can be very annoying and obnoxious. She seemed to be even more so that day and it really came off like all she wanted was the ring. I guess its not surprising given how her own mother behaves. 

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33 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

Maybe Tori was just nervous? Getting engaged is a big step for a lot of people and marriage is pretty much the only thing she was raised to aspire to. I know some people who babble on mindlessly when they’re nervous and my husband was super nervous right before proposing even though he already knew I would say yes, so that might have been what happened to Tori.

This and also the Bateseses 'act' for the camera to the extent that viewers do not know what is true... do they behave that aggressively without the cameras? (Kelly, probably)

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The courtship/engagement pressure on the guys does seem really distasteful coming from Kelly, particularly because HER OWN SONS are yet to want to take the leap into the responsibility that is marriage. I get that she wants them to, but they still haven't, which I think says a lot.

The one that has... Met his now-wife while she was working. How much you wanna bet that they had plenty of conversations about the fact that she fully intended to maintain some type of employment after marriage? It seems like the types of girls Kelly would want her sons to marry would be the ones that could never imagine having their own employment. That's a lot of pressure.

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7 hours ago, CaptainFunderpants said:

The courtship/engagement pressure on the guys does seem really distasteful coming from Kelly, particularly because HER OWN SONS are yet to want to take the leap into the responsibility that is marriage. I get that she wants them to, but they still haven't, which I think says a lot.

The one that has... Met his now-wife while she was working. How much you wanna bet that they had plenty of conversations about the fact that she fully intended to maintain some type of employment after marriage? It seems like the types of girls Kelly would want her sons to marry would be the ones that could never imagine having their own employment. That's a lot of pressure.

Well, Kelly wasn't happy about Whitney, she did try and find someone else for Zach but he wasn't interested. Then suddenly Whitney has the amazing conviction to change into exactly what the Bates wanted she's wearing skirts, uses the lingo, and doesn't have work. Whether it was pressure or agreeing to so they could court. There's no way Kelly's thrilled that her daughter-in-law now wears so much revealing clothes or got herself a job.

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