Joe and Kendra 13: Online Courting with Caldwell Semi-colons

[Sonic the Whoredgehog]

18 minutes ago, hollyfeller said:

Luckily I learned that was all a childish fantasy after seriously dating 3 people, living in the real world, and learning that relationships are serious work

Maybe that's part of why some of these couples seem so happy. They have minimal experience with heartbreak, which could actually help avoid trust issues and emotional baggage, perhaps at the cost of knowing how to handle it when tragedy strikes down the road. It honestly seems like their relationships are less work because their roles are so clearly "biblically" defined, right down to the demeanor you're supposed to have. When you've been grown like a bonsai tree for a certain role, you don't have to worry about your actual personalities, dreams, and weaknesses causing conflict as long as the brainwashing goes deep enough. If only one (or neither) is well - educated, you don't have to worry about philosophical differences. When your whole life is planned out for you, there's no major decision to argue about-but if there were, there's always the headship to defer to. 

I don't mean to say that gender roles and relationship dynamics that fit into the fundie archetypes are never authentic and that nobody is actually naturally suited to them, just that I find it incredibly difficult to believe that every single one of these people is  a normal person that just so happens to naturally fit nicely into "biblical" gender roles. 

[hollyfeller]

1 hour ago, Sonic the Whoredgehog said:

Maybe that's part of why some of these couples seem so happy. They have minimal experience with heartbreak, which could actually help avoid trust issues and emotional baggage, perhaps at the cost of knowing how to handle it when tragedy strikes down the road. It honestly seems like their relationships are less work because their roles are so clearly "biblically" defined, right down to the demeanor you're supposed to have. When you've been grown like a bonsai tree for a certain role, you don't have to worry about your actual personalities, dreams, and weaknesses causing conflict as long as the brainwashing goes deep enough. If only one (or neither) is well - educated, you don't have to worry about philosophical differences. When your whole life is planned out for you, there's no major decision to argue about-but if there were, there's always the headship to defer to. 

I don't mean to say that gender roles and relationship dynamics that fit into the fundie archetypes are never authentic and that nobody is actually naturally suited to them, just that I find it incredibly difficult to believe that every single one of these people is  a normal person that just so happens to naturally fit nicely into "biblical" gender roles. 

As much as I'd like to believe that I would have turned out to be the same person even if I hadn't grown up in such a progressive family, I know that I am (or at least I was when I was younger) too much of a people pleaser.  I would have done what my parents told me was the "right" thing to do - even if that was stay home, stay pure, and pray for Prince Charming to ask for my hand in marriage.  I'm sure I would have been deeply unhappy, though.

[Dandruff]

3 hours ago, hollyfeller said:

What will Kendra learn over the next 20 years?

Laundry shortcuts?

I'm of the opinion that she's genuinely happy and they're not struggling for income.  Isn't Joe a realtor?  They make some money from the show and I believe that Joe is going to take over for JB when he can no longer run Duggar, Inc. (no way Josh and John seems busy with other things).  They don't appear to have an extravagant lifestyle.  If they need a house, there's access to houses.  If they need work done on a house, there's access to howlers.  If they need a car, there's access to cars.  If they want to take a trip, there's access to Duggar Aviation.  I think they'll be fine.

[divadivine]

I think eventually JoKen will end up moving into/taking over the TTH. They have the potential to have a bajillion blessings, so it makes sense. If Joe is being primed to take over it would be the logical move. Jessa wouldn’t want the House because it’s too much to clean. Jilly Dilly might not have 11 million baybees, so it’s too big for the Dillweed family. Jostin are too busy flipping houses & living in their tiny house on wheels. Kendra is Meeeeechelle in the making, so she’d be the best one to take over the home making (putting together the jurisdictions for all her blessings.) But I’ve been wrong before. 

[SassyPants]

37 minutes ago, Dandruff said:

Laundry shortcuts?

I'm of the opinion that she's genuinely happy and they're not struggling for income.  Isn't Joe a realtor?  They make some money from the show and I believe that Joe is going to take over for JB when he can no longer run Duggar, Inc. (no way Josh and John seems busy with other things).  They don't appear to have an extravagant lifestyle.  If they need a house, there's access to houses.  If they need work done on a house, there's access to howlers.  If they need a car, there's access to cars.  If they want to take a trip, there's access to Duggar Aviation.  I think they'll be fine.

I’ll disagree here. The one thing Jb and M did do in their younger years was work and learn how to use money to make money. Before TLC and F8 came knocking, there was actual work happening. Personally, I do not think JB has enough to cover he and Michelle into old age, plus 19 other families, mega sized or not. Some of these 2nd generation folks are going to have use whatever skills they do have to grease the coffers. Right now Duggarville is a pyramid scheme that is not sustainable for the long haul, unless other$ $tart putting in. Yes, some of these folks have construction and transportation skills. Well, they need to start using those skills to build up their empire. Rampant reproduction is expensive to support. 

[Daisy0322]

None of the financial stuff in duggar land makes sense to me ?‍♀️  I think all the couples do bring in at least little bits of their own money and maybe that'll turn into something eventually but I just don't see how they all are going to support these mega families and none of them seem concerned 

[QuiverFullofBooks]

I think right now they have a lot of money, thanks to real estate and other investments. They live in a poor area (despite the minority of Walmart millionaires). Although I think they’re too enmeshed, that means they all feel entitled to a piece of the pie. It’s not like everything’s entailed on the TTH. The result is that they’re always going to be better off than most of the people around them. I’m not surprised that they’re relaxed about it.

[theotherelise]

Also, real estate is only valuable if the market says it is. The Duggars have bought in heavily into real estate. Maybe they also have cash savings and investments. But if you can't sell a property and it's not a business taking in money, then your worth plummets. Even if you don't have a mortgage on it. And they don't seem to be purchasing strip malls and getting rental income, they either flip over several years or sit on it?

Someone up thread said they thought Joe was a realtor. I don't know where to search those licenses, but we've never been given any indication he is a realtor. As far as we know, he works at the used car lot. Most if not all the adult duggars have property listed under their name, so that might be where the confusion came from.

I do believe the shows will end at some point. And then the duggars will be left with their self-taught skills, random properties which sit vacant for years, and total lack of traditional homesteading skills you see from some of the more frumper-til-death families. It's astonishing how little effort the duggars have put in to getting actual certifications and job training outside the family. 

[Karma]

I don’t know what joe and Kendra would think of it, but I keep getting this ad on this thread!

[HarleyQuinn]

It's kind of sad that her two year anniversary post mentions "still getting to know my husband." You should already know who you're marrying. 

[Kelsey]

On 9/9/2019 at 5:22 PM, mollysmom said:

Why do they always seem to pose Joe standing backwards....so your eyes automatically go to his butt. Not very modest. Oh. Wait. I forgot. Only the girls have to be modest. ?

I think it's only natural to put your best feature forward ?

[lumpentheologie]

6 hours ago, Karma said:

I don’t know what joe and Kendra would think of it, but I keep getting this ad on this thread!

I have so many questions about this picture.  Is it two women?  Is it a hetero couple with some cross-dressing? Why are there weird modernist drawings layered all over it? 

[CharlieInCharge]

3 minutes ago, lumpentheologie said:

I have so many questions about this picture.  Is it two women?  Is it a hetero couple with some cross-dressing? Why are there weird modernist drawings layered all over it? 

Yes, all this. How is this the solution for ‘Any Man’s Problems’? I want to go to the site and found out, but I’m scared. 

[libgirl2]

3 hours ago, HarleyQuinn said:

It's kind of sad that her two year anniversary post mentions "still getting to know my husband." You should already know who you're marrying. 

In their defense, it seems you learn something new every day. After 14 years, I still find out the occasional thing about mine and vice versa. 

[hollyfeller]

5 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

In their defense, it seems you learn something new every day. After 14 years, I still find out the occasional thing about mine and vice versa. 

My ex and I were married a long time before he told me he didn't like feta cheese.  As the one who cooked every meal I felt like I should have known that, but he didn't say anything!

[theotherelise]

I think you still learn things about yourself as time goes by, so your spouse/partner does the same. Before marriage, my husband said he wasn't into pet names. Yeah, we've learned he loves pet names. It feels weird to call each other by first name now! 

Duggar Data just posted an answer to the question "How long did it take to go from ‘courtposal’ to parenthood?" for the duggars & bateseses. JoKen was the shortest at 458 Days (15 Months, 1 Day). Sure the families knew each other well, but it's not like they were allowed to talk alone before the getting to know you and then courtship (and maybe not even then). Joe also seems pretty reserved and quiet. 

[OyToTheVey]

18 minutes ago, hollyfeller said:

My ex and I were married a long time before he told me he didn't like feta cheese.  As the one who cooked every meal I felt like I should have known that, but he didn't say anything!

My best friend and I have known each other for 20 years. She still thinks I'm making up the fact I don't like coconut even tho I tell her all the time. 

2 minutes ago, theotherelise said:

I think you still learn things about yourself as time goes by, so your spouse/partner does the same. Before marriage, my husband said he wasn't into pet names. Yeah, we've learned he loves pet names. It feels weird to call each other by first name now! 

Duggar Data just posted an answer to the question "How long did it take to go from ‘courtposal’ to parenthood?" for the duggars & bateseses. JoKen was the shortest at 458 Days (15 Months, 1 Day). Sure the families knew each other well, but it's not like they were allowed to talk alone before the getting to know you and then courtship (and maybe not even then). Joe also seems pretty reserved and quiet. 

15 months??? I've had concert friends I've known longer and there's no commitment involved.

[SassyPants]

21 minutes ago, theotherelise said:

I think you still learn things about yourself as time goes by, so your spouse/partner does the same. Before marriage, my husband said he wasn't into pet names. Yeah, we've learned he loves pet names. It feels weird to call each other by first name now! 

Duggar Data just posted an answer to the question "How long did it take to go from ‘courtposal’ to parenthood?" for the duggars & bateseses. JoKen was the shortest at 458 Days (15 Months, 1 Day). Sure the families knew each other well, but it's not like they were allowed to talk alone before the getting to know you and then courtship (and maybe not even then). Joe also seems pretty reserved and quiet. 

And isn’t Kendra the youngest women to give birth out of both clans? Personally, I think Kendra comports herself fairly well for her age. In her TH’s she doesn’t present as complete ditz. She has not admitted to licking her plate ala Joe, and during her wedding planning and courtship she wasn’t a complete twit like Joy, disengaged (Jessa), or a suck up (Jill). She seems like a sweet girl who hooked herself a fundie country bumpkin with a reality TV show.

[SillyDillys]

In all honesty kendra is my least disliked duggar in law (side eyeing lauren and anna) she just seems like she would be pretty cool. Kendra seems like she always had a bubbly personality and not just the submissive ditz the other in laws and daughters have done. 

[xenobia]

On 9/11/2019 at 4:01 AM, divadivine said:

I think eventually JoKen will end up moving into/taking over the TTH. They have the potential to have a bajillion blessings, so it makes sense. If Joe is being primed to take over it would be the logical move. Jessa wouldn’t want the House because it’s too much to clean. Jilly Dilly might not have 11 million baybees, so it’s too big for the Dillweed family. Jostin are too busy flipping houses & living in their tiny house on wheels. Kendra is Meeeeechelle in the making, so she’d be the best one to take over the home making (putting together the jurisdictions for all her blessings.) But I’ve been wrong before. 

I've always thought that the TTH would go to Josh/Anna. They need a big and not expensive place, and they'll probably end up with 10-12 little blessings. 

[just_ordinary]

On 9/11/2019 at 1:12 AM, Sonic the Whoredgehog said:

Maybe that's part of why some of these couples seem so happy. They have minimal experience with heartbreak, which could actually help avoid trust issues and emotional baggage, perhaps at the cost of knowing how to handle it when tragedy strikes down the road. It honestly seems like their relationships are less work because their roles are so clearly "biblically" defined, right down to the demeanor you're supposed to have. When you've been grown like a bonsai tree for a certain role, you don't have to worry about your actual personalities, dreams, and weaknesses causing conflict as long as the brainwashing goes deep enough. If only one (or neither) is well - educated, you don't have to worry about philosophical differences. When your whole life is planned out for you, there's no major decision to argue about-but if there were, there's always the headship to defer to. 

I don't mean to say that gender roles and relationship dynamics that fit into the fundie archetypes are never authentic and that nobody is actually naturally suited to them, just that I find it incredibly difficult to believe that every single one of these people is  a normal person that just so happens to naturally fit nicely into "biblical" gender roles. 

I believe they also are brainwashed to not believe in the ONE as we think of it. I read an I interesting article about the concept. If both partners are the right kind of Christians and put Jesus first they will be able to have a good and happy marriage. That promise is as horrific as pleasing. You don’t expect never ending romance and passion ála Hollywood but it also means you could basically marry anyone with the right criteria. So if your parents lay it on your heart it’s harder to find a way to escape. I think that may have happened to poor Tabitha. 

Another point is that most Bates and Duggar men will probably not cheat (the fall of Josh will probably scare them enough) or physically abuse their wife’s. They will likely not have to deal with that and are therefore in a better position than many women in the fundie world. The intense publicity will be in their favour for this. 

On 9/11/2019 at 7:17 PM, HarleyQuinn said:

It's kind of sad that her two year anniversary post mentions "still getting to know my husband." You should already know who you're marrying. 

While I believe you can never know everything about someone (especially as we all never stop changing), I found that actually living together brought in a completely new level of knowledge about one another. That is why I am a strong supporter of definitely living together for some time BEFORE marriage if possible. 

From all the Duggars Kendra is probably my pet Fundie. While she seems naive and ultra giggly, she never seemed completely helpless and stupid (marrying but acting completely unable to cook, wash, shop, budget & showing a shocking lack of knowledge about, well everything). On a superficial note- I said it before: I think she is very very beautiful. I find rounder faces in women very flattering so she and Joy are the real beauties in this family in my eyes.

I am fully aware that it’s easy to like her because we don’t really see much of her. Lots of people liked Jana (never got all that leg jumping for her) but now she reveals more if herself and everyone is reminded what kind of mindset we deal with. If Kendra and Joe would be more public it would likely go the same route.

[QuiverFullofBooks]

22 hours ago, xenobia said:

I've always thought that the TTH would go to Josh/Anna. They need a big and not expensive place, and they'll probably end up with 10-12 little blessings. 

No way. Josh made it very clear that he doesn’t deserve it. He’s not popular with his siblings, to say the least. (I’ve said on here before that I saw some of the kids rolling their eyes at him at a pre-scandal book signing.) 

Also, they’re not going to have the largest family. Anna has a baby about every two years, with increasingly longer gaps. She’s 31 and having her sixth child. She could be one baby away from decreasing fertility at 35. I think they’ll have 8-10 children. Right now it looks like Kendra will have more, and others could as well.

Personally, I think the TTH will be a shared headquarters for the family business, group events, and homeschooling.

[Satan'sFortress]

On 9/11/2019 at 5:35 PM, theotherelise said:

‘courtposal’

I wish that i could have lived my life without knowing that this word existed.

[Born Skeptic]

On 9/11/2019 at 9:30 AM, theotherelise said:

<snip>  Someone up thread said they thought Joe was a realtor. I don't know where to search those licenses, but we've never been given any indication he is a realtor. As far as we know, he works at the used car lot. Most if not all the adult duggars have property listed under their name, so that might be where the confusion came from.  <snip>

It has been discussed on here before.  Joe has had an active real estate license for several years.  https://www.ark.org/arec_renewals/index.php/search/view/SA00080071

I believe he passed his real estate exam shortly after returning from his time at Crown College.

 

[Karma]

On 9/12/2019 at 6:38 AM, lumpentheologie said:

I have so many questions about this picture.  Is it two women?  Is it a hetero couple with some cross-dressing? Why are there weird modernist drawings layered all over it? 

I have no idea!  And like @CharlieInCharge I’m too scared to click on it.  And I have no idea why google thinks it’s worth showing to a hetero woman married for 27 years!