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Depending on what exactly they're doing there, this could be a good thing... or not.

 

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This is so obviously a murder that it's scary. Not that it happened, but that they are so confident they aren't even bothering to make it less obvious. On Friday night, reddit and twitter were all saying that now that the list of names was out in the open, he's bound to commit "suicide." Then on Saturday--freaking Saturday--he commits "suicide." 
I hope people stop playing politics, whether its conservatives blaming Clinton or liberals making fun of conservatives for blaming Clinton (btw, liberals are also trending #TrumpBodyCount. I hate it when people say "bUt BoTh siDes," but let's not be hypocrites in this case). It doesn't matter which political party is responsible--because both Bill Clinton and Trump are connected. In this, they are on the same side. And the wealthy elite of the world (including, but not limited to: the British royal family, the owner of Victroria's Secret, and politicans on all sides of the aisle) will keep destorying the planet, keep 99% of the population down, beat jail time, and rape little girls as long as people keep falling for this partisan bullshit.
That's how it's always been. The richest of the rich vs. the rest of us. But while we bicker about liberals/conservatives our shared oppressors get away with it. They want us to be this divided, because that's what allows them to get away with it. 
Fuck Jeff Epstein, but no one should celebrate his death. It is a tragedy, and we are all the victims.
The only potential postive is that maybe people are starting to wake the fuck up. 

Quoting this because it’s worth reading again. I used to think we were all human beings before anything else. The past few years have taught me otherwise.
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13 hours ago, laPapessaGiovanna said:

Except that if the current POTUS, a former POTUS, former governors, foreign prime ministers and other men in charge of public offices were Epstein's accomplices in the abuse of underage girls then yes we are all victims, not of the abuse itself, but of a system that keeps the rich and powerful in power in spite of having committed horrible crimes. 

When justice is not served in cases such as this, then we are all victims of this miscarriage of justice. You could have been one of those girls who won't have justice because her abusers are too powerful. You are the citizen who gets to have a rapist POTUS because this system keeps the powerful men in charge in spite of crimes.

I don't rejoice for his death. Not because I care about his miserable life, but because he had to spill the beans before dying. I want to know if POTUS is an underage girls rapist. I want to know if the allegedly involved foreigner prime minister was our prime minister. We all are owed the truth. We all are victims of a system that prevents us from getting it.

ETA I see the points were already eloquently made by others. Sorry, my bad, I should have read the whole thread before replying.

This was beautifully put and exactly what I meant by my original comment about us all being victims. 

And as you pointed out, it's not an American issue either: it's global. 

4 hours ago, Dandruff said:

I'm not surprised this happened early during a weekend.  Weekday talk shows won't get to it until today.  I suspect this is going to evolve into a drawn out, and eventually kind of boring, "investigation" into the pitfalls of short staffing and where cameras should face in prisons, while the real issues get swept.

There's been buzz on reddit that Trump announces big controversial annoncements on Fridays to prevent people from noticing. An awful lot of big things happen on Friday/early Saturday in the past couple of years.

Good thing a huge chunk of the population gets their news from social media/the Internet instead of talk shows now. 

(Sidenote: God, I can't believe it's been 2 and 1/2 years of this presidency. It both feels longer and shorter). 

Edited by BernRul
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22 hours ago, samurai_sarah said:

xxx

No, Mr Hood that is not the end of it. If, say, a hypothetical kid I babysit gets into a minor accident, I can't just say "I dropped the ball" and expect to walk away from it. Having a duty of care, I am guilty of gross negligence. No one is just going to let me walk away. So, no, no "period"!

I read that statement as meaning 'you screwed up and you can't avoid that truth' - in which case he's right, it doesn't matter who requested what or why the ultimate responsibility is with whoever within the system agreed/authorised/failed to follow procedure.  Whoever that person is, they need to be answerable for their actions (or lack thereof).

As for this being suicide, I'm almost in tin hat territory here.  This being 'just' suicide feels as realistic as the whole Dr David Kelly fiasco years ago.  Far too neat and tidy in my opinion, everything was very coincidental...

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This person was probably one of the prison personnel or one of the first responders/ hospital personnel -- or even a journalist, but you can bet that the conspiracy theorists are having a field day with this.

4chan user posted about Jeffrey Epstein's death before it was public

Quote

Less than an hour before the first news reports surfaced that Jeffrey Epstein had been found unresponsive in his jail cell, a post about his death mysteriously appeared on a far-right message board.

Authorities now want to know who was behind the post, which contained medically accurate details about the financier and accused sex trafficker.

The New York City Fire Department, for its part, has determined that the information in the post did not come from its records, a department spokesperson told NBC News. Fire officials reviewed the post on 4chan, a forum popular with internet trolls and people in the so-called alt-right movement.

BuzzFeed News was first to report on the post, which appeared on 4chan 38 minutes before the first tweet about Epstein's death from ABC News reporter Aaron Katersky at 8:54 a.m. ET. The flagship ABC News account tweeted an article about Epstein's death five minutes later.

"[D]on't ask me how I know, but Epstein died an hour ago from hanging, cardiac arrest. Screencap this," the post reads. The text was accompanied by an image of Pepe the Frog, an internet meme that is popular among far-right internet trolls.

Troll posts looking to capitalize on the initial post immediately began pushing elaborate conspiracy theories about body doubles, which were later refuted by the original poster.

New York Presbyterian, the hospital to which Epstein was taken to, declined to comment.

The New York City medical examiner's office said Sunday that it had completed an autopsy on Epstein but that it needed more information before determining the cause of death.

Multiple people briefed on the investigation told NBC News that suicide remains the presumed cause of death and that no sign of foul play has yet emerged.

Epstein was not on suicide watch at the time of his death, even though he was found in his cell two weeks ago with marks on his neck, multiple people familiar with the investigation said.

 

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2 hours ago, fraurosena said:

This person was probably one of the prison personnel or one of the first responders/ hospital personnel -- or even a journalist, but you can bet that the conspiracy theorists are having a field day with this.

4chan user posted about Jeffrey Epstein's death before it was public

 

Just coming to post this.  I find it interesting that it was posted on a far-right site. (Quotes are from the article)

"Less than an hour before the first news reports surfaced that Jeffrey Epstein had been found unresponsive in his jail cell, a post about his death mysteriously appeared on a far-right message board."

What is the link or who to the far-right?  Did I miss something?

"[D]on't ask me how I know, but Epstein died an hour ago from hanging, cardiac arrest. Screencap this," the post reads. The text was accompanied by an image of Pepe the Frog, an internet meme that is popular among far-right internet trolls."

 

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The Daily Fail is claiming that Ghislaine Maxwell has been living with a boyfriend in MA:

Quote

 

Ghislaine Maxwell, long-time consort of Jeffrey Epstein and the alleged procurer of victims in his underage sex trafficking ring, has been laying low in a New England beach town, DailyMail.com has learned exclusively.

Maxwell, 57, is in a relationship with Scott Borgerson, 43, and has been living with him at his secluded oceanfront property at the end of a long private road in Manchester-by-the-Sea, Massachusetts.

The British socialite has been loath to leave the $3 million mansion, a source told DailyMail.com amid heightened focus on Epstein's alleged co-conspirators following the convicted pedophile's apparent suicide on Saturday.

 

If true, I hope they arrest her ass STAT.

 

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35 minutes ago, hoipolloi said:

The Daily Fail is claiming that Ghislaine Maxwell has been living with a boyfriend in MA:

If true, I hope they arrest her ass STAT.

 

If true, I'm glad because they'll be able to arrest her. But could she really be that stupid and stay in a country where she knows she could get arrested? Or does she think (or know) that she won't be? Does she understand that she could be in mortal danger right now? The same people that got to Epstein could also get to her...

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Anyone whoever entertained the idea that the USA is any more civilized or corruption free than Russia, any middle eastern country, Venezuela, NK, China, Cuba or really any country that Trump would consider an S-hole is very sadly mistaken.

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7 hours ago, SassyPants said:

Anyone whoever entertained the idea that the USA is any more civilized or corruption free than Russia, any middle eastern country, Venezuela, NK, China, Cuba or really any country that Trump would consider an S-hole is very sadly mistaken.

True, though based on the list of names, I'd say its all or most first world countries. Any country that has rich and powerful people. 

Guys, the Epstein "suicide" has pushed me from progressive but by no means radical Dem to full on "let's eat the rich." 

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48 minutes ago, BernRul said:

Guys, the Epstein "suicide" has pushed me from progressive but by no means radical Dem to full on "let's eat the rich." 

I kind of agree, but as to the bolded? Too much cholesterol. Too much bile. :puke-front:

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44 minutes ago, WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo? said:

I kind of agree, but as to the bolded? Too much cholesterol. Too much bile. :puke-front:

I don't know, that's high quality, free range beef right there. 

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I'm beginning to rethink this vegan thing...

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Epstein autopsy reveals broken bones, deepens questions about his death.

The bones in question are the hyoid bone, which could be consistent with hanging depending on a number of factors (age, drop, type of noose, etc). They don't always break in suicides, but they are often broken in strangulation death. Either way, more investigation is warranted.

5 hours ago, Dandruff said:

Beef...or pork?

Either way probably tastes like chicken...

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Sweet Rufus. I also read the autopsy found that his neck was broken in several different places, inconsistent with hanging.

[thread]

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From WAPO (because I can't get like to work for some reason).

"...particularly if they are older, according to forensics experts and studies on the subject. But they are more common in victims of homicide by strangulation, the experts said."

So many questions.

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12 hours ago, Dandruff said:

Beef...or pork?

Pork, but they don't really talk about "free range pigs" as much. Though very applicable to this situation. 

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Oh, did he really? ?

In light of the earlier reports about his hyoid and other neck bones being broken, unless I see a scientific explanation for it from an affirmed unbiased source, I don't think the medical examiner could come to such a definitive conclusion. Rather a determination that the cause of death by suicide or strangulation is undetermined. 

But cause of death aside, the circumstances under which Epstein could die are still extremely suspicious. 

ETA: More info.

So, the news comes from '2 law enforcement officials' not the medical examiner him/herself. That makes the veracity of the claim somewhat more doubtful. First, let's see their report before anybody jumps to conclusions.

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Michael Baden was allowed to observe the autopsy after being hired by Epstein representatives.

I met Baden ages ago and he’s a major showboat who would never miss an opportunity to go to the press.

Believe me, if there’s the faintest hint of an issue with the ME’s findings, Michael Baden will be bellowing like the bulls of Bashan about it.

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If it wasn't ruled a suicide, they'd next have to try and open up an investigation into who the fuck did it?

Fascinating question. Complicated and expensive iinvestigation filled with more stonewalling. I'd rather efforts continue in attempting to pursue justice. Go after Ghislaine.

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