Epstein Barr

[Howl]

There was a lot of pearl clutching over Joe Scarborough's post and many people took to their fainting couches over how irresponsible it was. Fuck them. 

Anyway, NDAs.  There was some speculation that NDAs signed with Epstein would be nullified with Epstein's death.  However, it's much more likely the NDAs were signed with one of Epstein's business entities, which would continue after his death. 

[fraurosena]

42 minutes ago, Howl said:

However, it's much more likely the NDAs were signed with one of Epstein's business entities, which would continue after his death.

Hmm. I'm not sure though. If you sign an NDA with a business entity, you can't disclose anything about that business. But if you're not supposed to disclose anything about a person, then you will need to have an NDA with them.

At least, that's what my logic tells me. Legal eagles, please correct me if I'm wrong.

[BernRul]

This is so obviously a murder that it's scary. Not that it happened, but that they are so confident they aren't even bothering to make it less obvious. On Friday night, reddit and twitter were all saying that now that the list of names was out in the open, he's bound to commit "suicide." Then on Saturday--freaking Saturday--he commits "suicide." 

I hope people stop playing politics, whether its conservatives blaming Clinton or liberals making fun of conservatives for blaming Clinton (btw, liberals are also trending #TrumpBodyCount. I hate it when people say "bUt BoTh siDes," but let's not be hypocrites in this case). It doesn't matter which political party is responsible--because both Bill Clinton and Trump are connected. In this, they are on the same side. And the wealthy elite of the world (including, but not limited to: the British royal family, the owner of Victroria's Secret, and politicans on all sides of the aisle) will keep destorying the planet, keep 99% of the population down, beat jail time, and rape little girls as long as people keep falling for this partisan bullshit.

That's how it's always been. The richest of the rich vs. the rest of us. But while we bicker about liberals/conservatives our shared oppressors get away with it. They want us to be this divided, because that's what allows them to get away with it. 

Fuck Jeff Epstein, but no one should celebrate his death. It is a tragedy, and we are all the victims.

The only potential postive is that maybe people are starting to wake the fuck up. 

Edited August 11, 2019 by BernRul

[fraurosena]

4 hours ago, GreyhoundFan said:

Because of course he did: "Trump retweets conspiracy theory tying Clintons to Epstein’s death"

  Reveal hidden contents

BRIDGEWATER, N.J. — President Trump used his Twitter account Saturday to spread a baseless conspiracy theory about the death of Jeffrey Epstein, a wealthy and politically connected financier who had been facing multiple charges of sex trafficking involving underage girls.

Trump’s own Justice Department announced that Epstein, who was being held in a federal corrections facility, died by “apparent suicide.” 

But Trump appeared to disregard his administration’s statement, instead retweeting a message from conservative actor and comedian Terrence K. Williams, who suggested Epstein’s death might be tied to former president Bill Clinton. Williams also questioned how Epstein could have died by suicide if he had been on suicide watch.

The claim is completely unsubstantiated, and federal officials say Epstein was not on suicide watch at the time of his death. He had been placed on suicide watch last month but then taken off within a week, according to a person familiar with the matter.

A Clinton spokesman responded on Twitter: “Ridiculous, and of course not true — and Donald Trump knows it. Has he triggered the 25th Amendment yet?” The 25th Amendment spells out a process for the president’s cabinet to remove him from office.

White House officials did not immediately return a request for a comment on why Trump was sharing the unsubstantiated conspiracy theory. A Justice Department spokeswoman declined to comment on the president’s retweet.

On Saturday, Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.) warned against embracing conspiracy theories about Epstein.

While scrutiny of Epstein’s apparent suicide is “warranted,” Rubio said, he added: “the immediate rush to spread conspiracy theories about someone on the ‘other side’ of partisan divide having him killed illustrates why our society is so vulnerable to foreign disinformation & influence efforts.” 

The president — who is on vacation at his golf club in Bedminster, N.J. — is no stranger to using his considerable public platform to promote conspiracy theories, particularly those that target his political opponents. 

For years, Trump promoted the myth that former president Barack Obama was born in Kenya rather than in the United States. During the 2016 presidential campaign, Trump spread a conspiracy theory that the father of Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Tex.), Rafael Cruz, was somehow connected to the assassination of president John F. Kennedy. 

He has claimed without evidence that Obama wiretapped Trump Tower in New York, and once entertained an unsubstantiated theory that former Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia, who died in his sleep in February 2016, may have been murdered.

Trump’s latest retweet will surely help fuel the conspiracy theories that have quickly spread online since the news of Epstein’s death broke Saturday.

Epstein, 66, was found unresponsive in his cell at the federal Metropolitan Correctional Center in Manhattan about 6:30 a.m. Saturday, according to officials. Several agencies, including the FBI, the New York City medical examiner and the Justice Department’s inspector general, have begun inquiries into how Epstein could have died while in federal custody. 

Epstein appeared to have hanged himself, officials said. Both the Bureau of Prisons and Attorney General William P. Barr called the death an “apparent suicide,” although one official said no final determination has been made.

Rep. Lois Frankel (D-Fla.), who has demanded congressional investigations into Epstein’s past crimes, questioned whether Epstein’s death really was a suicide Saturday, suggesting without evidence that there might be a link between his death and the powerful people he associated with.

“There are a lot of very powerful people who wanted to see this man dead. So was it really just a suicide?” Frankel told NPR. “Was it just negligence by the officials who had custody of him? I don’t know, but I definitely think it needs to be investigated.”

Online, news of Epstein’s death quickly fed conspiracy theories Saturday that powerful people who once socialized with Epstein — such as Trump and Clinton — had a hand in the financier’s fate and stood to benefit from his silencing.

A #ClintonBodyCount hashtag trended on Twitter last month after Epstein was found injured and placed on suicide watch. It was revived Saturday, often in conjunction with hashtags about Epstein’s death.

Lynne Patton, a Trump appointee at the Department of Housing and Urban Development, used her Instagram account to spread a version of the conspiracy theory.

But “Clinton” wasn’t the only name becoming fodder for proponents of conspiracies around Epstein’s death. An echo of the Clinton hashtag implicating the president, #TrumpBodyCount, was also trending early Saturday afternoon.

Various unsubstantiated Clinton conspiracy theories have circulated for decades, but some have criticized Twitter for giving them new prominence by allowing related hashtags to gain momentum and to show up in the site’s trends sidebar.

Twitter said in a statement that the social media platform’s trends are determined by the rate and consistency of tweets on a topic in a certain location. The company said the site aims to reflect the public conversation.

Twitter’s rules say it wants to promote “healthy discussions” and may prevent content from trending if it contains profanity, certain graphic elements, incites hatred on the basis of qualities such as gender or race, or otherwise violates Twitter policy.

 

Oops.

 

[fraurosena]

Epstein’s accusers call her his protector and procurer. Is Ghislaine Maxwell now prosecutors’ target?

Quote

Ghislaine Maxwell was, according to her accusers, Jeffrey Epstein’s protector and procurer, his girlfriend and his madam. She was, by all accounts, a soul mate and a mirror image. He grew up in Brooklyn with no money to speak of and never finished college. She is Paris-born, Oxford-educated, a jet-setter who partied with princes and billionaires.

Together, Epstein and Maxwell allegedly built what prosecutors, police and a growing number of women described as a sex-trafficking operation that crisscrossed the nation to provide Epstein with three young girls a day.

The death of Epstein, the convicted sex offender who authorities said hanged himself in a federal detention center cell in New York on Saturday, leaves those who seek to hold someone responsible for the alleged abuse of dozens of girls with one prime target: Maxwell.

The U.S. attorney in New York, Geoff Berman, assured the “brave young women who have already come forward and . . . the many others who have yet to do so” that “our investigation of the conduct charged in the indictment — which included a conspiracy count — remains ongoing.”

According to many of the women who have spoken about what Epstein allegedly did to them, Maxwell was the financier’s chief co-conspirator.

Maxwell, 57, has not been charged and has denied any wrongdoing. According to people familiar with the investigation, authorities have had trouble locating Maxwell, who is believed to be living abroad. Her five-story Manhattan townhouse was sold in 2016 for $15 million by a company that used the address of Epstein’s New York office.

Her lawyers told a judge in 2017 that she was in London, but had no fixed address. Lawyers representing Epstein’s alleged victims said they wouldn’t expect Maxwell to return to the United States anytime soon for fear of being arrested.

Martina Vandenberg, founder and president of the nonprofit Human Trafficking Legal Center, said she was “thrilled” to hear the prosecutors’ announcement that the investigation would continue, saying it would encourage more alleged victims to come forward.

For someone who stood by Epstein through the most sordid allegations, Maxwell was also a factor in his downfall: It was through a 2015 defamation lawsuit filed against Maxwell by one of Epstein’s alleged victims, Virginia Roberts Giuffre, that thousands of pages of documents containing detailed accounts of Epstein’s alleged abuses became public last week.

But Maxwell herself had long since slipped away. Although associates of Epstein said Maxwell never completely broke off relations with Epstein, she became far less of a presence at his various properties in recent years.

Maxwell was a focus of the Epstein investigation from the start, according to the Palm Beach police officials who began the probe. The girls they interviewed repeatedly described Maxwell as the coordinator of Epstein’s sex-trafficking operation. But detectives were never able to interview Maxwell.

Attorneys for Maxwell did not return calls seeking comment. Throughout the years since Epstein was first accused of sexual abuse, Maxwell has insisted that she did nothing wrong and knew of no illegal acts. In a deposition she gave in Giuffre’s defamation suit in 2016, Maxwell said that “Virginia is an absolute liar and everything she has said is a lie. Therefore, based on those lies I cannot speculate on what anybody else did or didn’t do . . . everything she said is false.” The suit was settled out of court in 2017.

But a growing number of women have said that Maxwell was the prime organizer of Epstein’s three-times daily “massages,” and that she acted as recruiter and paymaster for the girls who came to Epstein’s Palm Beach mansion.

Giuffre said Maxwell recruited her in 2000, when she was 16 or 17 and working at Donald Trump’s Palm Beach club, Mar-a-Lago.

As Giuffre recalled it in her lawsuit, Maxwell told her, “I know somebody. We can train you. We can get you educated. You know, we can help you along the way if you pass the interview. If the guy likes you, then, you know, it will work out for you. You’ll travel. You’ll make good money.”

But at her first meeting with Epstein, Giuffre said in a deposition, Maxwell “instructed me to take off my clothes and to give oral sex to Jeffrey Epstein.”

In an interview with the Miami Herald last year, Giuffre said, “The training started immediately. It was everything down to . . . how to be quiet, be subservient, give Jeffrey what he wants. A lot of this training came from Ghislaine herself, and being a woman, it kind of surprises you that a woman could actually let stuff like that happen. But not only let it happen but to groom you into doing it.”

Giuffre also said that Maxwell ordered her to have sex with Prince Andrew, former New Mexico governor Bill Richardson (D) and former Senate majority leader George J. Mitchell (D-Maine).

“My whole life revolved around just pleasing these men and keeping Ghislaine and Jeffrey happy,” Giuffre said in the deposition. “Their whole entire lives revolved around sex.”

Spokesmen for Richardson and Mitchell vigorously denied Giuffre’s allegations and said they never had any contact with her. A spokesperson for Buckingham Palace said, “Any suggestion of impropriety with underage minors is categorically untrue.”

Asked in a deposition about Maxwell’s role in procuring girls for him, Epstein said only, “Fifth,” referring to his Fifth Amendment protection against self-incrimination.

Johanna Sjoberg, a student at Palm Beach Atlantic University when she said Maxwell hired her as an assistant, said in a 2015 deposition that was released Friday that it was Maxwell’s job to ensure that three girls a day were made available to Epstein for his sexual pleasure.

“He needed to have three orgasms a day,” Sjoberg said. “It was biological, like eating.”

In another document released Friday, Rinaldo Rizzo, the houseman for one of Epstein’s closest friends testified that a 15-year-old Swedish girl tearfully told him that Maxwell and Epstein had threatened her with physical harm and confiscated her passport to assure that she stayed on Epstein’s private island in the Caribbean.

Yet another woman has claimed that Maxwell not only recruited girls for Epstein, but took part in the sexual abuse of girls. Maria Farmer said in an affidavit earlier this year that she met Maxwell and Epstein at an art show when she was a graduate student in Manhattan in 1995. The next summer, Farmer said, both Maxwell and Epstein sexually assaulted her at the Ohio estate of Leslie Wexner, the billionaire founder of The Limited stores and Epstein’s only publicly known financial client. Farmer also said that Maxwell took part in the sexual abuse of her 15-year-old sister on a massage table at Epstein’s Zorro Ranch in New Mexico.

Through her years with Epstein, Maxwell maintained a very public life at the pinnacle of society. She was a friend of John F. Kennedy Jr. in New York in the 1990s and a guest at Chelsea Clinton’s wedding in 2010. She had a long relationship with an Italian count. She attended fashion shows and top-dollar benefit balls in New York and London and went to the Vanity Fair party at the Oscars, where she was photographed in 2014 with Elon Musk, the tech entrepreneur.

In 2000, she obtained her townhouse on Manhattan’s East 65th Street; it was purchased for her for $5 million by an anonymous corporation located at the same address as Epstein’s finance office.

Maxwell served on boards of charities and founded a nonprofit organization that sought to conserve the world’s oceans. The organization announced last month that it was ceasing operations.

Describing herself as “unemployed,” Maxwell donated the maximum permissible, $2,300, to Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign in 2007.

In a profile of Epstein in Vanity Fair in 2003, he said that Maxwell was not a paid employee but rather his “best friend.”

But after Epstein’s conviction on sexual abuse charges in 2008, Maxwell appeared to distance herself from her friend.

Maxwell grew up in a 53-room mansion on 14 acres near Oxford. Her father was Robert Maxwell, a British member of Parliament and book and newspaper publisher who was regularly on the front pages until he died mysteriously in 1991 aboard the Lady Ghislaine, a yacht he had named for his youngest daughter. The official ruling was that his death was an accident, but some British press coverage speculated that Maxwell, under pressure because of his enormous debts, killed himself. Ghislaine never believed that and subscribed to the notion that her father was murdered.

In life, the father — born Jan Hoch, a Czech Jewish refu­gee before he transformed himself into a London publisher — carried himself like a man of extreme wealth. When he died, he was found to owe money to more than 40 banks, to the tune of more than $4 billion.

Soon after her father’s death, Ghislaine Maxwell moved to New York. She had a trust fund from her father, which provided her with about $100,000 a year, according to British news reports. But there was no fortune to rely on; she worked in Manhattan selling real estate.

Then, less than a year after her father died, she met Epstein. Maxwell was Epstein’s guide to a heady world of celebrity, wealth, power and royalty. She introduced him to Bill Clinton and to Prince Andrew, who became a frequent visitor to Epstein’s properties. Maxwell and Epstein flew around the world on his private jet and invited top scientists and business leaders to dinners.

Friends said that although their romantic relationship lasted only a few years, she continued to work with or for him long afterward. In court documents, former employees at the Epstein mansion in Palm Beach described Maxwell as the house manager, the person who oversaw the staff, handled finances and served as social coordinator, often doing the glad-handing while the more reserved Epstein stayed in the background at parties and dinners.

In 1993, an ad in Yoga Journal offered a “full time position” for an “Iyengar Yoga Instructor” to “teach a private individual.” “The job includes fantastic perks such as extensive travel,” the ad said, and it advised interested parties to call “Miss Maxwell” at a phone number that was Epstein’s office number.

In a deposition in 2016, Maxwell agreed that her work at the Epstein houses “included hiring many people, . . . all sorts of people.” She said that “a very small part of my job was from time to time to find adult professional massage therapists for Jeffrey. As far as I’m concerned, everyone who came to his house was an adult professional person.”

 

[SilverBeach]

1 hour ago, BernRul said:

Fuck Jeff Epstein, but no one should celebrate his death.

Why not? As a mother to a female, a female myself, and a survivor of child sexual abuse, why would I not celebrate that one less pervert is alive to do more damage? I feel the same way about that trash R. Kelly. I don't apologize for how I feel. Spend your life committing heinous deeds, don't be surprised that people celebrate when you are gone and can no longer do so. 

[Dreadcrumbs]

1 hour ago, BernRul said:

Fuck Jeff Epstein, but no one should celebrate his death. It is a tragedy, and we are all the victims.

Except we're not all victims here. Epstein's victims are the victims.

[Smash!]

@SilverBeach I completely get where you are coming from and I'm so sorry you had to endure abuse. Still from my perspective if he had made it to court and probably would've taken down a lot of wealthy high profile people that would've been justice for his victims.

I have to say for some reason his death shocks me a lot even tough it was predictable. It is proof that there are (political) powers who don't want justice and are only interested in keeping their wealthy circles out of trouble. It means in law enforcement it makes a difference whether you are super wealthy or just a normal citizen. Nothing new here but seeing it so blatantly displayed is sickening to me.

Seth Abramson doesn't believe it was murder btw.

If you want my opinion—and it's just that, though based on years working in the justice system—the chance this *wasn't* a suicide is vanishingly small. The question—and it'll be looked at—is if he was being threatened, blackmailed, or induced to self-harm and a guard looked away. 

https://twitter.com/sethabramson/status/1160283267490308097?s=21

Edited August 11, 2019 by Smash!

[BernRul]

23 minutes ago, SilverBeach said:

Why not? As a mother to a female, a female myself, and a survivor of child sexual abuse, why would I not celebrate that one less pervert is alive to do more damage? I feel the same way about that trash R. Kelly. I don't apologize for how I feel. Spend your life committing heinous deeds, don't be surprised that people celebrate when you are gone and can no longer do so. 

Because his death means that justice won't be served. That the guilty parties--the rich and powerful who perpetuated this--are getting off scott free when there was a chance they'd go down with him. Do you think they'll stop because he's gone? It will be just another oppurtunistic asshole who fills in for the Bill Clintons and Donald Trumps of the world.

If anything the damage is now being allowed to continue. There was a chance for real change, and it's very likely gone with Epstein. 

[SilverBeach]

6 minutes ago, Smash! said:

Still from my perspective if he had made it to court and probably would've taken down a lot of wealthy high profile people that would've been justice for his victims.

That can still be done. The can of worms was opened. There just has to be enough resolve to dig into it.

Look, I wouldn't have taken out a contract on him or killed him myself , I'm just not shedding any tears because he's dead. 

And evenif it was a suicide, for it to be successful means someone wasn't doing their job. Like with Sandra Bland. 

[BernRul]

16 minutes ago, Dreadcrumbs said:

Except we're not all victims here. Epstein's victims are the victims.

We're all victims because it's the ordinary people without power who get screwed again. Its our kids who will get groomed by the next Epstein if we allow the powerful to keep getting away with this. 

[SilverBeach]

1 minute ago, BernRul said:

If anything the damage is now being allowed to continue. There was a chance for real change, and it's very likely gone with Epstein. 

Not necessarily true. That woman who procured for him is very much alive, although she should probably be looking over her shoulder. Law enforcement can pursue this if they want to.

[BernRul]

1 minute ago, SilverBeach said:

That can still be done. The can of worms was opened. There just has to be enough resolve to dig into it.

Look, I wouldn't have taken out a contract on him or killed him myself , I'm just not shedding any tears because he's dead. 

And evenif it was a suicide, for it to be successful means someone wasn't doing their job. Like with Sandra Bland. 

I want to believe this, but since his death was so blatant, it will likely discourage others from speaking up. It sends the message that even with the whole world watching, they'll still do whatever it takes to silence those who'll speak up against him. It's terrorist tactics and it works. 

[SilverBeach]

3 minutes ago, BernRul said:

That the guilty parties--the rich and powerful who perpetuated this--are getting off scott free

When Bill Cosby was convicted, those who enabled him got off scott-free. When R. Kelly is finally convicted, his enablers will also get off scott-free.

[BernRul]

1 minute ago, SilverBeach said:

Not necessarily true. That woman who procured for him is very much alive, although she should probably be looking over her shoulder. Law enforcement can pursue this if they want to.

I think change will come one way or another, because things can only build up for so long before boiling over. But I don't trust the police to do the right thing. I hope I'm wrong. 

Just now, SilverBeach said:

When Bill Cosby was convicted, those who enabled him got off scott-free. When R. Kelly is finally convicted, his enablers will also get off scott-free.

I'm not sure your point, but in this case Epstein isn't the big bad that other people tolerated. He's the one doing the dirty work for a network of the world's most powerful people. It's like the assassin getting punished but not the people who hired him. 

[SilverBeach]

6 minutes ago, BernRul said:

I want to believe this, but since his death was so blatant, it will likely discourage others from speaking up. It sends the message that even with the whole world watching, they'll still do whatever it takes to silence those who'll speak up against him. It's terrorist tactics and it works. 

I wasn't surprised at all, the Mafia has always been able to get to anybody, in prison or not. So can ultra-rich and powerful people. Law enforcement can take the information they already have, and pursue it, or not, whether folks get scared or not. I still think it is a good message that life did not end well for Epstein. Or Cosby. Or Weinstein. Or R. Kelly.

Edited August 11, 2019 by SilverBeach

[hoipolloi]

From the Miami-Herald journalist behind the investigative series:

[SilverBeach]

6 minutes ago, BernRul said:

I'm not sure your point,

You stated that those who perpetuated Epstein's wrongdoing got off scott free. I quoted you. I was responding to that. Check a little further above. It would be nice if all evil-adjacent folks were punished, but in many cases, getting the main bad actor has to suffice.

Edited August 11, 2019 by SilverBeach

[BernRul]

16 minutes ago, SilverBeach said:

You stated that those who perpetuated Epstein's wrongdoing got off scott free. I quoted you. I was responding to that. Check a little further above. It would be nice if all evil-adjacent folks were punished, but in many cases, getting the main bad actor has to suffice.

My point is that Epstein is not the main bad actor. He is the hitman that was hired. The parties who are truly responsible, the wealthy elite who never have to pay for their crimes and have created this cycle of abuse, are allowed to keep doing what they want. It's not a conincidence that he dies right after big names were being dropped. 

It's like if R. Kelly's manager was arreseted, then died in prison once R. Kelly starts getting mentioned. So the scummy manager gets what he deserves while R. Kelly gets off scott free. 

Edited August 11, 2019 by BernRul

[SilverBeach]

12 minutes ago, BernRul said:

My point is that Epstein is not the main bad actor.

He kinda is. He personally abused underage girls and provided a venue for others to do the same.

If there is any evidence of the abuse of underage girls by any of Epstein's customers, that evidence should be pursued to the maximum extent that the law allows. All knowledge did not die with Epstein.

[BernRul]

12 minutes ago, SilverBeach said:

He kinda is. He personally abused underage girls and provided a venue for others to do the same.

If there is any evidence of the abuse of underage girls by any of Epstein's customers, that evidence should be pursued to the maximum extent that the law allows. All knowledge did not die with Epstein.

He created the Lolita Express just for himself? I'm not disputing that he abused the girls as well, but his main thing has always been being the supplier to even worse pieces of trash. 

He's like a supplier who dips into his own stash. 

Edited August 11, 2019 by BernRul

[samurai_sarah]

I think there is a possibility that Epstein dying might bite every one of his associates in the backside. His death is too convenient for them. So, between that and #MeToo people are asking a lot more questions than they did back during the first Epstein-scandal. With Epstein gone, the focus has shifted.

Personally though, I'm pissed off that he's dead. I wanted him to sing like a canary on the stand! That would have saved us all a lot of time.

Edited August 11, 2019 by samurai_sarah

[BernRul]

3 minutes ago, samurai_sarah said:

I think there is a possibility that Epstein dying might bite every one of his associates in the backside. His death is too convenient for them. So, between that and #MeToo people are asking a lot more questions than they did back during the first Epstein-scandal. With Epstein gone, the focus has shifted.

Personally though, I'm pissed off that he's dead. I wanted him to sing like a canary on the stand! That would have saved us all a lot of time.

That's the thing that keeps me from being 100% cynical. People are paying attention. I just think it's going to get very messy in the meantime. 

[Dreadcrumbs]

54 minutes ago, BernRul said:

We're all victims because it's the ordinary people without power who get screwed again. Its our kids who will get groomed by the next Epstein if we allow the powerful to keep getting away with this. 

Okay, fair enough.

8 minutes ago, BernRul said:

He created the Lolita Express just for himself? I'm not disputing that he abused the girls as well, but his main thing has always been being the supplier to even worse pieces of trash. 

He's like a supplier who dips into his own stash. 

They're all trash. It's not a contest.

[SilverBeach]

7 minutes ago, BernRul said:

He created the Lolita Express just for himself? I'm not disputing that he abused the girls as well, but his main thing has always been being the supplier to even worse pieces of trash. 

He's like a supplier who dips into his own stash. 

Look, I dislike Epstein as much as you. I don't know what his main thing was, just that he abused children which, no matter what else he did, makes him horrible in my book. I hope everyone who abused children supplied by himm does time. No need to argue, we are on the same side of this. And when the supplier is gone, a lot of people lose their connection. Hopefully, this will happen in Epstein's case, but whenever vast sums of money are involved, there is always a new supplier to take over.