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JermajestyDuggar

Unlicensed Nebraska midwife charged with homicide

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VVV
Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Howl said:

I wonder if it's up to the parents to press charges, or up to the local LEOs.  I'm assuming if the State or local LEOs don't bring charges, the parents could sue.   As noted upthread, Ms. Hock was charging $3000 to $4000 for her services, so she was making serious bank on practicing medicine without a license.  

I would bet money that Ms. Hock wasn't reporting any of that income to the IRS. Hopefully they go after her too.

Edited by VVV

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Howl
28 minutes ago, VVV said:

I would bet money that Ms. Hock wasn't reporting any of that income to the IRS. Hopefully they go after her too.

My thoughts as well.  Murder charges could be the tip of the iceberg for her legal woes. 

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zeppelincommander

Complicated US birth here.  Kid had a serious birth defect, discovered on ultrasound, that required induction to plan a neurosurgery and a high-level NICU.  The hospital was old, somewhat rural, and not cozy, but the care was good and we all had good outcomes.  They were good with most of my issues, but rushed as US medicine tends to be.  Breastfeeding support was almost non-existent.

The ultrasound radiation nonsense is a perfect example of lousy science education combined with internet articles.  In physics ultrasound is considered radiation, as it's energy moving as a particle or wave.  What people without basics physics knowledge don't know is there are different kinds of radiation.  There's atomic bomb, cancer-causing radiation, which is ionizing.  There's also nonn-ionizing radiation which is harmless unless you are exposed to ridiculous amounts (standing in front of a 50ft diameter microwave dish transmitter levels).  Heat, sound, and visible light are all non-ionizing radiation.  This misunderstanding also results in thinking microwaves and cell signals cause cancer. 

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JermajestyDuggar

Why do I keep looking at these Birth Keeper groups and people on FB? I can’t stop shaking my head! One woman delivered her surrogate triplets at home and one of them was breech. Wtf?!

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Depressed
feministxtian

I'm all for low/no intervention births...IN A BIRTHING CENTER OR HOSPITAL!!!! Shit can go to hell in a handbasket right quick during labor and delivery. I had 3 "natural" births...IN A HOSPITAL. Low intervention (except for birth #1), almost no intervention (other than AROM to kick-start labor) with birth #3. And, it was an "empowering" experience all 3 times...I got to see what I'd been growing and lemme tell you, hearing newborn cries and having that warm little bundle handed to you is a high like almost nothing else (IMO). 

These "pro-life" bitches are some kind of stupid. They knowingly and willingly endanger their own lives and the lives of their babies by pulling this shit. When the fuck are they going to learn? How many dead babies and motherless children do you need to see the error of your ways? 

 

:::::::::tonight's rant over (maybe)::::::::::

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Ozlsn
12 hours ago, Howl said:

This woman had an infection, was running a fever and the midwife talked her out of going to the hospital.  That woman is incredibly lucky to be alive. 

I do wonder whether she (the mother) will be able to conceive again as well. Personally I hope both the families affected sue the midwives involved.

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Petronella
On 7/22/2019 at 10:17 PM, Ozlsn said:

There are points where I think that for some of these women freebirthing would be safer than hiring these "midwives" - a completely unqualified assistant at least knows that they don't know anything and is possibly more likely to call for help. There is a strong disincentive for "midwives" like Angela Hock to call for outside help because 1. it exposes the deficiencies in their available services and 2. what they have been doing is illegal and they know it. And 3. it forces them to recognise that they are in fact not much more qualified than a taxi driver in situations where things are not going as planned, and if some of your identity is bound up in being a respected midwife then that is tough.

I agree. There are chilling stories about births even in **birthing centres** where the midwives do everything they can to avoid the reputation embarrassment of hospital transfer. It’s horrifying and devastating (trigger warning: stillbirths): http://hurtbyhomebirth.blogspot.com/

It saddens and frustrates me that many women are caught between two extremes: unnecessarily and immediately medicalized and hurried, “efficient”, assembly-line births (which have the safety of emergency support, but can sometimes cause the need for emergency support through their rigid procedures and impatience), and reassuring-seeming woo-woo snake-oil midwives. Obviously, a middle ground is what’s best, but that kind of care is not always easy to find, even in wealthy areas. It can often just come down to which doctor and nurses are on duty.

Both my babies were born safely, and I’m grateful to everyone involved. I ultimately had epidurals with both, and I wish I had accepted the epidurals sooner; it had seemed important to me at the time to aim for a natural birth. For the life of me I can’t think why that mattered to me so much, but I think it was the way birthing options were presented as two extremes. Did I want to listen to my body or not? By accepting drugs, I felt like I was giving up.

I attempted homebirth with my first but back labor was so painful it stalled my dilation; the midwife was the one who recommended a hospital transfer. But if I’d happened to have an extremist midwife who was filling my head with promises and explanations and assurances, I could have been a tragic mom from one of the above stories. I like to think I would have resisted and insisted, but would I have gotten to that point in time, if something had been wrong with my baby?

This is just a small detail, but when we arrived at the hospital, I was told I had to sit in a wheelchair to be brought to labor & delivery. For whatever reason, that happened to be the most excruciating position for me. I explained that I wasn’t able to sit, and STILL THEY INSISTED. I explained again, in tears. They DEMANDED that I cause pain and possibly damage to myself for the sake of their procedures. I swore vigorously and headed for a random elevator, vowing to find labor and delivery my damn self. They gave in and guided me there without the wheelchair.

It’s that kind of petty adherance to rules (probably for insurance/liability reasons), and exclusion of the actual happenings in the mother’s body, that causes there to be an anti-hospital-birth sentiment. I understand that statistically it can be sensible to use a wheelchair, but not when it causes active, sharp pain, y’know? Not because I was prizing some idealized serene birth experience over the health of my child, but because pain is a pretty good indicator that something is bad for you.

In my experience, the ideal is professional midwives within a hospital, which is what I had with baby 2. (I still waited too long to accept an epidural, though! That would be my go-back-in-time advice to younger me: epidural, please!)

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Petronella
Posted (edited)

One more possibly relevant anecdote:

When boy 2's due date came around, he did not. We didn't want to jump to induction, but did want to be careful. The standard we were advised was something like every-other-day checkups, then induction at two weeks past due, if he hasn't come on his own yet. This tallied with most of what I saw recommended in online discussions, etc. Basically, give the baby a chance (especially since due dates aren't exact anyway) but there are risks to waiting *too* long.

One online discussion I found was absolutely chilling. It was a midwives' discussion group, and was heavily bent towards natural ONLY, labor as long as it takes, women's bodies are always right, no inductions for any reason (which is AWFUL and NOT SOUND). I recall one midwife describing her own birth experience, and how the child was over a month late, and died as a result of being too long in the womb (there were medical reasons, like the draining of amniotic fluid or something; I forget what it was, but the death was directly attributable to not inducing). Her cautious, tip-toey conclusion was something like: while natural is ideal, and we should encourage and allow leeway of expectations about due dates, in some extreme cases induction may, just may, be the right thing to do, in case, y'know, the baby is actually dying. The other midwives PILED ON. They stood firm on never inducing, even though it would have saved her baby's life. It was scary to read.

(I went in for induction at the two-week mark, and they pointed out that I was already in labor. I was like, I don't think I am! And they were like, well, you are so...we're not going to induce you, but stick around and have a baby? ;-D )

Edited by Petronella

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ColeJo

The Hurt by Homebirth blog was difficult to read. I even found a story from Meridian/Boise Idaho.  My ex-best friend planned to give birth in a birthing center in Meridian. Her water broke and she wasn't progressing. It was about 48 hours before they transferred her.

I currently receive gynecological care from a CNM. When I ever get pregnant, I can be assured that both midwives are trained and they work in a OBGYN private practice.

My theory about CPMs is that they don't want to become an RN, work in L&D, get BSN, and go through a nurse-midwifery program. They want to practice independently even though they are not effectively trained. As with anything in medicine, shortcuts cost lives.

I also understand the fears of the "intervention cascade." I get that there are fears due to implicit bias. Providers need to do better educating patients. Anybody can Google pregnancy complications, but an expert can explain what is happening and what to do to either prevent it or treat it. Talking with your provider allows for the opportunity to ask questions. The volume-based healthcare system sometimes doesn't allow this if patients are scheduled close together.

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JermajestyDuggar

My OBGYN is a DO instead of an MD so maybe that’s why I don’t relate to the “cascade of interventions” talk. She wasn’t usually one to be an alarmist or jump to induction. Maybe that would be a better choice for some women. But most OBGYNs are MDs so not everyone has that choice. 

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PennySycamore

@Petronella,  I also wanted up to the birthing floor and eschewed the proferred wheelchair.  My reasoning:  I was not sick or injured so why did I need a wheelchair.  I was in labor and walking, in general, is good for laboring women.  I was also two weeks late with my first, went in for an induction only to be told I was in labor already.  Early labor though and so I got the pit.  

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