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Unlicensed Nebraska midwife charged with homicide


JermajestyDuggar

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3 minutes ago, Howl said:

I wonder if it's up to the parents to press charges, or up to the local LEOs.  I'm assuming if the State or local LEOs don't bring charges, the parents could sue.   As noted upthread, Ms. Hock was charging $3000 to $4000 for her services, so she was making serious bank on practicing medicine without a license.  

I would bet money that Ms. Hock wasn't reporting any of that income to the IRS. Hopefully they go after her too.

Edited by VVV
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28 minutes ago, VVV said:

I would bet money that Ms. Hock wasn't reporting any of that income to the IRS. Hopefully they go after her too.

My thoughts as well.  Murder charges could be the tip of the iceberg for her legal woes. 

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Complicated US birth here.  Kid had a serious birth defect, discovered on ultrasound, that required induction to plan a neurosurgery and a high-level NICU.  The hospital was old, somewhat rural, and not cozy, but the care was good and we all had good outcomes.  They were good with most of my issues, but rushed as US medicine tends to be.  Breastfeeding support was almost non-existent.

The ultrasound radiation nonsense is a perfect example of lousy science education combined with internet articles.  In physics ultrasound is considered radiation, as it's energy moving as a particle or wave.  What people without basics physics knowledge don't know is there are different kinds of radiation.  There's atomic bomb, cancer-causing radiation, which is ionizing.  There's also nonn-ionizing radiation which is harmless unless you are exposed to ridiculous amounts (standing in front of a 50ft diameter microwave dish transmitter levels).  Heat, sound, and visible light are all non-ionizing radiation.  This misunderstanding also results in thinking microwaves and cell signals cause cancer. 

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Why do I keep looking at these Birth Keeper groups and people on FB? I can’t stop shaking my head! One woman delivered her surrogate triplets at home and one of them was breech. Wtf?!

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I'm all for low/no intervention births...IN A BIRTHING CENTER OR HOSPITAL!!!! Shit can go to hell in a handbasket right quick during labor and delivery. I had 3 "natural" births...IN A HOSPITAL. Low intervention (except for birth #1), almost no intervention (other than AROM to kick-start labor) with birth #3. And, it was an "empowering" experience all 3 times...I got to see what I'd been growing and lemme tell you, hearing newborn cries and having that warm little bundle handed to you is a high like almost nothing else (IMO). 

These "pro-life" bitches are some kind of stupid. They knowingly and willingly endanger their own lives and the lives of their babies by pulling this shit. When the fuck are they going to learn? How many dead babies and motherless children do you need to see the error of your ways? 

 

:::::::::tonight's rant over (maybe)::::::::::

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12 hours ago, Howl said:

This woman had an infection, was running a fever and the midwife talked her out of going to the hospital.  That woman is incredibly lucky to be alive. 

I do wonder whether she (the mother) will be able to conceive again as well. Personally I hope both the families affected sue the midwives involved.

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On 7/22/2019 at 10:17 PM, Ozlsn said:

There are points where I think that for some of these women freebirthing would be safer than hiring these "midwives" - a completely unqualified assistant at least knows that they don't know anything and is possibly more likely to call for help. There is a strong disincentive for "midwives" like Angela Hock to call for outside help because 1. it exposes the deficiencies in their available services and 2. what they have been doing is illegal and they know it. And 3. it forces them to recognise that they are in fact not much more qualified than a taxi driver in situations where things are not going as planned, and if some of your identity is bound up in being a respected midwife then that is tough.

I agree. There are chilling stories about births even in **birthing centres** where the midwives do everything they can to avoid the reputation embarrassment of hospital transfer. It’s horrifying and devastating (trigger warning: stillbirths): http://hurtbyhomebirth.blogspot.com/

It saddens and frustrates me that many women are caught between two extremes: unnecessarily and immediately medicalized and hurried, “efficient”, assembly-line births (which have the safety of emergency support, but can sometimes cause the need for emergency support through their rigid procedures and impatience), and reassuring-seeming woo-woo snake-oil midwives. Obviously, a middle ground is what’s best, but that kind of care is not always easy to find, even in wealthy areas. It can often just come down to which doctor and nurses are on duty.

Both my babies were born safely, and I’m grateful to everyone involved. I ultimately had epidurals with both, and I wish I had accepted the epidurals sooner; it had seemed important to me at the time to aim for a natural birth. For the life of me I can’t think why that mattered to me so much, but I think it was the way birthing options were presented as two extremes. Did I want to listen to my body or not? By accepting drugs, I felt like I was giving up.

I attempted homebirth with my first but back labor was so painful it stalled my dilation; the midwife was the one who recommended a hospital transfer. But if I’d happened to have an extremist midwife who was filling my head with promises and explanations and assurances, I could have been a tragic mom from one of the above stories. I like to think I would have resisted and insisted, but would I have gotten to that point in time, if something had been wrong with my baby?

This is just a small detail, but when we arrived at the hospital, I was told I had to sit in a wheelchair to be brought to labor & delivery. For whatever reason, that happened to be the most excruciating position for me. I explained that I wasn’t able to sit, and STILL THEY INSISTED. I explained again, in tears. They DEMANDED that I cause pain and possibly damage to myself for the sake of their procedures. I swore vigorously and headed for a random elevator, vowing to find labor and delivery my damn self. They gave in and guided me there without the wheelchair.

It’s that kind of petty adherance to rules (probably for insurance/liability reasons), and exclusion of the actual happenings in the mother’s body, that causes there to be an anti-hospital-birth sentiment. I understand that statistically it can be sensible to use a wheelchair, but not when it causes active, sharp pain, y’know? Not because I was prizing some idealized serene birth experience over the health of my child, but because pain is a pretty good indicator that something is bad for you.

In my experience, the ideal is professional midwives within a hospital, which is what I had with baby 2. (I still waited too long to accept an epidural, though! That would be my go-back-in-time advice to younger me: epidural, please!)

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One more possibly relevant anecdote:

When boy 2's due date came around, he did not. We didn't want to jump to induction, but did want to be careful. The standard we were advised was something like every-other-day checkups, then induction at two weeks past due, if he hasn't come on his own yet. This tallied with most of what I saw recommended in online discussions, etc. Basically, give the baby a chance (especially since due dates aren't exact anyway) but there are risks to waiting *too* long.

One online discussion I found was absolutely chilling. It was a midwives' discussion group, and was heavily bent towards natural ONLY, labor as long as it takes, women's bodies are always right, no inductions for any reason (which is AWFUL and NOT SOUND). I recall one midwife describing her own birth experience, and how the child was over a month late, and died as a result of being too long in the womb (there were medical reasons, like the draining of amniotic fluid or something; I forget what it was, but the death was directly attributable to not inducing). Her cautious, tip-toey conclusion was something like: while natural is ideal, and we should encourage and allow leeway of expectations about due dates, in some extreme cases induction may, just may, be the right thing to do, in case, y'know, the baby is actually dying. The other midwives PILED ON. They stood firm on never inducing, even though it would have saved her baby's life. It was scary to read.

(I went in for induction at the two-week mark, and they pointed out that I was already in labor. I was like, I don't think I am! And they were like, well, you are so...we're not going to induce you, but stick around and have a baby? ;-D )

Edited by Petronella
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The Hurt by Homebirth blog was difficult to read. I even found a story from Meridian/Boise Idaho.  My ex-best friend planned to give birth in a birthing center in Meridian. Her water broke and she wasn't progressing. It was about 48 hours before they transferred her.

I currently receive gynecological care from a CNM. When I ever get pregnant, I can be assured that both midwives are trained and they work in a OBGYN private practice.

My theory about CPMs is that they don't want to become an RN, work in L&D, get BSN, and go through a nurse-midwifery program. They want to practice independently even though they are not effectively trained. As with anything in medicine, shortcuts cost lives.

I also understand the fears of the "intervention cascade." I get that there are fears due to implicit bias. Providers need to do better educating patients. Anybody can Google pregnancy complications, but an expert can explain what is happening and what to do to either prevent it or treat it. Talking with your provider allows for the opportunity to ask questions. The volume-based healthcare system sometimes doesn't allow this if patients are scheduled close together.

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My OBGYN is a DO instead of an MD so maybe that’s why I don’t relate to the “cascade of interventions” talk. She wasn’t usually one to be an alarmist or jump to induction. Maybe that would be a better choice for some women. But most OBGYNs are MDs so not everyone has that choice. 

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@Petronella,  I also wanted up to the birthing floor and eschewed the proferred wheelchair.  My reasoning:  I was not sick or injured so why did I need a wheelchair.  I was in labor and walking, in general, is good for laboring women.  I was also two weeks late with my first, went in for an induction only to be told I was in labor already.  Early labor though and so I got the pit.  

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  • 1 month later...

Nothing new to report about these dangerous midwives. However I did come across a fundie family on FB who recently lost their baby while attempting a homebirth. I’m not going to name them since we never have talked about them on FJ. But they are definitely fundie, protest abortion constantly, homeschool, and are anti-vaccine. They didn’t give a lot of details but they were attempting a homebirth when the mother had trouble pushing the baby out. They couldn’t find a heart beat so they called an ambulance. Unfortunately it was too late. They didn’t name their midwife but I really hope it’s not another fake midwife. It’s yet another very sad homebirth situation. 

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On 7/24/2019 at 7:48 AM, Petronella said:

I attempted homebirth with my first but back labor was so painful it stalled my dilation; the midwife was the one who recommended a hospital transfer. But if I’d happened to have an extremist midwife who was filling my head with promises and explanations and assurances, I could have been a tragic mom from one of the above stories. I like to think I would have resisted and insisted, but would I have gotten to that point in time, if something had been wrong with my baby?

Thank you for your telling. Whew--glad that your babies were safe.

Luckily, in New Mexico, qualified nurse-midwives are valued for both holistic and scientific training. I initially wanted to do natural, due to bad PTSD. After all, being "trapped" by an epidural would have caused me bad flashbacks. but then, the contractions started causing bad flashbacks. So I went on an epidural. My midwife (who knew me over the past few months) was so wonderful, and "gave me permission" to do whatever was safest for my baby and me. We did an epidural, and kiddo was born safe and without an actively-flashbacking mum.

So I am glad that you also had a lovely midwife, Petronella. I wish that more women did.

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I think the parents bear responsibility too- not quite as much as the midwife but people have to be informed and be responsible for the choices they make. I don’t think they should be charged with anything but they bear the moral responsibility for their choices. By the way, some states can charge mothers who behave irresponsibly with harm to a fetus. Those statutes are typically used against poor women. Of course.

Edited by nelliebelle1197
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I'm 13 weeks pregnant with twins. If they are far enough along and are properly positioned my obgyn supports me in trying a vaginal deliver. But to do it safely I will deliver in the operating room with an epidural. This is to ensure that they are set up for an emergency c section if it is necessary. If there is any problem with position etc it will be a c section. 

I will not let my pride put these babies at risk. I can not understand how these people can claim to be so pro life and then deliver babies with such a cavalier attitude. 

The only thing I can think is pride or finances. I am in Canada. I have no concerns regarding a hospital bill after these babies are born and if I have to be transported to a larger hospital due to complications (I'm in rural Northern Alberta) this is covered by our health care. 

People who are both pro life and anti public health care make me want to bash my head into the wall. 

 

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6 minutes ago, Skyline said:

I'm 13 weeks pregnant with twins. If they are far enough along and are properly positioned my obgyn supports me in trying a vaginal deliver. But to do it safely I will deliver in the operating room with an epidural. This is to ensure that they are set up for an emergency c section if it is necessary. If there is any problem with position etc it will be a c section. 

I will not let my pride put these babies at risk. I can not understand how these people can claim to be so pro life and then deliver babies with such a cavalier attitude. 

The only thing I can think is pride or finances. I am in Canada. I have no concerns regarding a hospital bill after these babies are born and if I have to be transported to a larger hospital due to complications (I'm in rural Northern Alberta) this is covered by our health care. 

People who are both pro life and anti public health care make me want to bash my head into the wall. 

 

It is usually pride, finances, or fear. I’ve noticed some people have had a very bad experience with hospitals or a doctor and are now making decisions based in fear. Which often doesn’t work out well. 

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1 minute ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

It is usually pride, finances, or fear. I’ve noticed some people have had a very bad experience with hospitals or a doctor and are now making decisions based in fear. Which often doesn’t work out well. 

Understandable. I never thought of fear. These will be my first and while the health care system here is not perfect I haven't had a single person attempt to scare me away from a hospital delivery. I think, on average, Canadian hospitals are less intervention happy. 

Here midwives have to be licensed and there are rules regarding what they can and can not deliver. I didn't look to closely into it because there isn't a midwife anywhere near where I live (so I may be  wrong) but my understanding is they can not/will not deliver twins to a first time mom. 

 

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2 hours ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

I think the parents bear responsibility too- not quite as much as the midwife but people have to be informed and be responsible for the choices they make. I don’t think they should be charged with anything but they bear the moral responsibility for their choices. By the way, some states can charge mothers who behave irresponsibly with harm to a fetus. Those statutes are typically used against poor women. Of course.

I think we can throw the crappy US health care system under the bus here, too. Isn't having a baby in the hospital something like $10,000? I presume unlicensed midwifery services are much cheaper.

https://www.vox.com/2016/5/5/11591592/birth-cost-hospital-bills

A public system in which hospital and homebirths attended by licensed midwives are completely free would go a long way. You'd still get a few anti-government crazies, I guess.

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I just wanted to point out that the purpose of pregnancy and labor is NOT to have the perfect delivery, it's to safely deliver a healthy child to a healthy mother.  Some of these midwives seem to miss that point, and consider only certain kinds of labor (their kind of labor) to be the right kind of labor, at any cost to the mother and/or child. 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Babies die in a hospital and people don't jump all over saying the doctors should die/be imprisoned etc...

On 7/8/2019 at 7:32 AM, Ozlsn said:

Yes my understanding of Nebraska's laws is that homebirth is legal, but attending a homebirth in a professional capacity isn't. So yes, you can give birth with attendants at home as long as those attendants aren't qualified in that field. (This probably explains the doula's statement about being a support person only and unpaid to boot.) 

This is the definition of doula. I'm confused about what you thought the statement meant?

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4 hours ago, RainbowSky said:

Babies die in a hospital and people don't jump all over saying the doctors should die/be imprisoned etc...

Red herring. If a baby dies in hospital as a result of doctors negligence you can bet that people would want to see that doctor face his/her responsibilities in court. If a baby dies in hospital in spite of all the care given by competent personnel doing their best then there's no point in accusing doctors for something that was beyond anyone's possibilities.

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12 hours ago, RainbowSky said:

This is the definition of doula. I'm confused about what you thought the statement meant?

I thought she wanted the police to not charge her with practising as an unlicenced midwife. Given doulas can be (and frequently are) paid the statement about being unpaid really stood out to me, especially as everyone else there appeared to be either a paid but unqualified midwife or a family member. 

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