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Joy & Austin 28: loss and mourning


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On 7/8/2019 at 1:57 AM, JenniferJuniper said:

My recollection is that Derick wanted more money for the Sam birth episode.  He claimed they didn't have a contract with TLC, so - simply speculating here - maybe the birth with it's associated complications was actually filmed but never aired because the Dillards and TLC couldn't come to terms.  Derick was definitely angry with TLC and whatever went on led to them being dropped by the show.   

My own guess is that Derick demanded more money because of the complications with the birth, figuring TLC would pay more for more drama.  He did publicly bitch that TLC wouldn't even pay the hospital bill. 

The Jazz stuff came later, after Derick was no longer associated with TLC,  although I think we were still a little in the dark about what had gone down with Derick and TLC at the time. 

I remember TLC releasing a statement stating that his statements (re Jazz) did reflect the TLC belief (or words like that). I Think in that statement they also stated that they were no longer working with the Dillard's and they would no longer appear. 

Some one tell me I am not crazy.

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6 hours ago, AussieKrissy said:

I remember TLC releasing a statement stating that his statements (re Jazz) did reflect the TLC belief (or words like that). I Think in that statement they also stated that they were no longer working with the Dillard's and they would no longer appear. 

Some one tell me I am not crazy.

That’s true, but apparently the Dillards had stopped filming prior to that without either side announcing it.

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I’m not very sentimental at all and struggle to understand why people would want to prolong their misery with all these pictures and postings and crying and let’s bring this up every year so we can relive our grief.  I don’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings or minimize grief, but sentimentality is so negative and I’m happy I don’t suffer from it to any great extent.  Sorry, but that’s the way I feel.  

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3 minutes ago, Don'tlikekoolaid said:

I’m not very sentimental at all and struggle to understand why people would want to prolong their misery with all these pictures and postings and crying and let’s bring this up every year so we can relive our grief.  I don’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings or minimize grief, but sentimentality is so negative and I’m happy I don’t suffer from it to any great extent.  Sorry, but that’s the way I feel.  

It’s negative for you.  Others find comfort in it.

you may not have intended it but this read to me very much minimizing the grief of people who process their emotions differently than you. 

 

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On 7/4/2019 at 2:34 PM, SweetLaurel said:

I lost a baby at 16 weeks and the dr wanted to do a D&C after a week of baby passing,  basically because I was losing my mind waiting to lose her naturally.    My husband was very worried the insurance company would label it an abortion because they don't cover that.  The doctor kept saying 'there is no baby.  the baby is gone.  there is no abortion.  this is a medical procedure.'    People think weird things.   Fundies in particular.   

 

My first pregnancy had a due date of Christmas.  I miscarried, and was so miserable that I wouldn't decorate our apartment for the holiday that year.  I went on to experience two more miscarriages.  Then Wychling was born, a total surprise.  We started doing the Christmas stuff again for her.  Now, this past Christmas, we lost a much-beloved young relative and I dread the holiday stuff again.

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4 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

It’s negative for you.  Others find comfort in it.

you may not have intended it but this read to me very much minimizing the grief of people who process their emotions differently than you. 

 

This. Thank you for saying it, @HerNameIsBuffy

I remember thinking that the sentimentality over anniversaries of someone's passing and what not was all a bit maudlin. But that was before I suffered the loss of anyone truly close to me. It's different then. And I have to wonder if this poster has had such a loss yet. Those losses become part of you. They don't just fade away. 

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5 hours ago, Don'tlikekoolaid said:

I’m not very sentimental at all and struggle to understand why people would want to prolong their misery with all these pictures and postings and crying and let’s bring this up every year so we can relive our grief.  I don’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings or minimize grief, but sentimentality is so negative and I’m happy I don’t suffer from it to any great extent.  Sorry, but that’s the way I feel.  

This isn't sentimentality, this is just forgetting. People don't bring back the grief, they remember the loved one. Have you lost a grandparent, parent, Aunt, Uncle, sibling, friend?  Do you want to just forget about them, live your life like they were never part of it? 

 

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16 minutes ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

This isn't sentimentality, this is just forgetting. People don't bring back the grief, they remember the loved one. Have you lost a grandparent, parent, Aunt, Uncle, sibling, friend?  Do you want to just forget about them, live your life like they were never part of it? 

 

I don't want to forget. I do have trouble processing it. I have a tendency to throw out or hide reminders of things that cause me pain. This isn't something that I am sure is the best coping mechanism. I struggle.

I am uncomfortable with the photos. Not judging though. Individual choices.

Not that I'm saying this Kool-aid's position.

Don't put words in her mouth. It might have been a poorly articulated statement. It was still what she said.

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5 minutes ago, AliceInFundyland said:

I don't want to forget. I do have trouble processing it. I have a tendency to throw out or hide reminders of things that cause me pain. This isn't something that I am sure is the best coping mechanism. I struggle.

I am uncomfortable with the photos. Not judging though. Individual choices.

Not that I'm saying this Kool-aid's position.

Don't put words in her mouth. It might have been a poorly articulated statement. It was still what she said.

I wasn't putting words in @Don'tlikekoolaid mouth, I'm questioning her comment, because I read it as she want's just forget and move on. My questions were to get further information. 

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I went to the funeral yesterday of an 89-year-old woman who was the mother of one of my mother’s friends (I have known the friend, through my mum, for 30+ years).

The woman’s daughter mentioned in her eulogy - and this was something neither she nor her mum had ever talked about before - that her mum had had a stillborn daughter a few years after she was born, and because this was Hong Kong in the 1950s, they just whisked the baby away after the birth without anyone saying goodbye. She said her mother didn’t talk about the baby much after that, which was also how it was done then.

Years later, like in 2016, the mother was in a nursing home with dementia and no longer recognised her adult daughter or husband and had recessed into carrying around a llfe-size toy baby doll, that she called Diamond, which she used to dress, tuck into bed etc (the nurses actually brought a crib into her room for the doll to sleep in because it soothed her having the doll there).

It took a while, but eventually my mother’s friend realised that the baby’s name wasn’t really Diamond, it was just that her mother couldn’t pronounce certain words any more due to having a stroke. Her actual name was Diana - the name of the stillborn daughter 50 years ago.

It makes me wonder about my own mum, too. She had a daughter who lived for one week, two years after I was born (late 70s, when not much had changed), and also didn’t do a farewell or grieving process. Because the baby was born so early she was always reconciled to the idea she wouldn’t survive, and tried to forget about her and move on - and she sometimes asks me whether she’s being harsh not grieving for her. But now I can’t help wondering what might be there subconsciously that she never really addressed.

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12 minutes ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

I wasn't putting words in @Don'tlikekoolaid mouth, I'm questioning her comment, because I read it as she want's just forget and move on. My questions were to get further information. 

I am really not trying to be confrontational. The first sentence of your comment is a statement, not a question.

This entire thread has been very tense with people making pointed comments about other people's opinions on experiences and feelings regarding grief. That is all.

Backing away.

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1 hour ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

This isn't sentimentality, this is just forgetting. People don't bring back the grief, they remember the loved one. Have you lost a grandparent, parent, Aunt, Uncle, sibling, friend?  Do you want to just forget about them, live your life like they were never part of it? 

 

No of course not!  I was just trying to introduce a different perspective.  For example I took my moms and grandpas deaths very hard.  I had portraits of them  in the house and would cry every time I looked at them.  It was emotional torture and I had to put them away.   All I’m trying to say is we people make things harder on ourselves than they need to be.  And sentimentality is not a positive thing.  Look it up in a thesaurus, it’s really not good.

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@feministxtian I am so sorry for all that you are going through with your husband right now. I can only begin to imagine the pain you are feeling.

Edited by nvmbr02
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15 minutes ago, feministxtian said:

Thank you for your opinion. I fully intend to keep my husband's memory alive. His "love me" wall will go up wherever I live (all his awards, plaques, etc) There will be a shadowbox made of his retirement flag, his uniform, medals and the flag that will cover his casket. I did the same thing for my father. Right now, because he had to take off his wedding band in the hospital, I am wearing it. It doesn't look "great" with my rings but I don't give a shit. It's a way to have him near me. 

I don't think you have to like or accept what other people do to honor those they have lost, but you can damn sure keep your fucking mouth shut about it. 

Sometimes I really dislike the smiling face on our I Agree vote thing. I do agree with your sentiment, but I agree in a much more sombre way than the little yellow dude.

I am so sorry about all you and your husband are going through. 

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@feministxtian I know what you’re going through, my husband is also in the process of dying.  I watch him getting worse day by day and it’s really hard.  Thanks for your opinion.

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I don't really get judging how anyone grieves. Some people like a lot of pictures around to remember their loved one, and I can't even imagine telling a grieving person that there's something wrong with that. Some people don't want a lot of reminders around, and I don't think it's fair to say either that it means that they're forgetting their loved one.

I've gotten in arguments before with conspiracy theorists (namely the Sandy Hook hoaxers, who are the worst of the worst when it comes to conspiracy theorists, imo) who just cannot fathom that in real life people don't process grief exactly like the hoaxers think they should. There's just not one single way that grief looks.

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2 hours ago, Don'tlikekoolaid said:

@feministxtian I know what you’re going through, my husband is also in the process of dying.  I watch him getting worse day by day and it’s really hard.  Thanks for your opinion.

I'm so sorry to hear that you too, are losing your spouse. I don't know what I will do when my husband dies, he's 9 years older than I am, and we've been together for 23 years, I think about it, and I don't like it, but baring any accidents he will die before I do and I will have to live X number of years with out him.  I'm not sure how old you are, but watching your partner in crime (as I like to call my DH) die, ... UGH, I'm so sorry.  I'll be thinking of you and @feministxtian as you both deal with the loss of your husbands.  There is nothing I can say or do to make it better. I am a wonderful listener if you want to talk about anything, bitch moan, cry, scream. PM me I'll be more than happy to listen.  

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That's very true. What works for someone doesn't work for someone else. There's no right or wrong way to grieve. When I was younger after  my grandmas and great-grandmother's death I put away all pictures I had of them and things they gave me.  My parents took down pictures too. It was just too hard to look at them or things that they gave us or used to be theirs. It was so hard every time we went to visit my great-grandpa because he had pictures everywhere. We didn't say anything but it was so hard to sit talking with him and seeing all the pictures. The different stuff that belonged to my grandmother and great-grandmother still where they always had been before. It helped him so much to keep things where they always had been before and to talk about them and tell stories. But eventually enough time passed that it didn't bother us anymore. It felt nice to look at the different pictures in his house and we put ours back up and happily to listen to the stories.  Put their stuff around the house. It felt nice and helped. I have my great-grandmother's cedar/hope chest in my room. We went though the same process after Mom died. Majority of the stuff in our the house was now falls under the belonged to Grandpa/Grandma/Great-Grandma/Great-Grandpa/Mom. 

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Years ago I visited an elderly relative on my family tree research.  She took me to the country cemetery where my great great grandparents etc were buried.  She also showed me a small grave with a fairly new headstone on it, “Baby Jones” and the year - some 70 years earlier - on it.  She’d had a stillborn baby in the 1930s? who hadn’t been named or given a headstone.  All those years later, after her husband’s death, she finally had a headstone put on the baby’s grave.  

Despite having other children and grandchildren, she never forgot her lost baby, and it gave her comfort to mark his existence in this way.

I think if Joy wants to post very tasteful photos of Annabel then that is her right, just as other people might choose to not post photos/memories etc.  Their loss, their choice.

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18 hours ago, Don'tlikekoolaid said:

I’m not very sentimental at all and struggle to understand why people would want to prolong their misery with all these pictures and postings and crying and let’s bring this up every year so we can relive our grief.  I don’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings or minimize grief, but sentimentality is so negative and I’m happy I don’t suffer from it to any great extent.  Sorry, but that’s the way I feel.  

I can only speak for myself but for me obviously but "bringing it up every year" is in a way cathartic. I acknowledge my losses every year on the day we lost them. I light a candle for them and talk with family about how I'm feeling. That's the extent of it. It has helped with the grief and gave me some closure/ability to move on knowing I will always be able to acknowledge they existed. I do also have a tattoo as well. 

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I think there are as many ways to grieve as there are losses in our life, and for the most part none of them are wrong.

I have lost a number of people in my life and I've grieved for them all in very different ways.  I was very emotional when my granny died, I cried rivers for a long time. I grieved for my mother during her final illness, while she was still here to hug and talk to and cry with. When she died, what I felt was overwhelming relief that her suffering was over. I speak of her often but I very rarely get upset about it. My 8 year olds friend died 2 years ago today, I've been an emotional mess all week.

All that to say not only do people grieve differently, but we each grieve different losses differently.  We all do what we need to to get through it. 

@feministxtian @Don'tlikekoolaid my heart goes out to you both right now and to all those who shared their grief in this thread.

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Grief is different for everyone. If Joy and Austin wanted to take photos and share them with their fans, that’s fine by me. 

I hope Joy is getting support. Austin too actually; naturally a lot of stuff around baby loss centres around the mother, but there are two parents involved in any such loss. 

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13 hours ago, Captain Obvious said:

I went to the funeral yesterday of an 89-year-old woman who was the mother of one of my mother’s friends (I have known the friend, through my mum, for 30+ years).

The woman’s daughter mentioned in her eulogy - and this was something neither she nor her mum had ever talked about before - that her mum had had a stillborn daughter a few years after she was born, and because this was Hong Kong in the 1950s, they just whisked the baby away after the birth without anyone saying goodbye. She said her mother didn’t talk about the baby much after that, which was also how it was done then.

Years later, like in 2016, the mother was in a nursing home with dementia and no longer recognised her adult daughter or husband and had recessed into carrying around a llfe-size toy baby doll, that she called Diamond, which she used to dress, tuck into bed etc (the nurses actually brought a crib into her room for the doll to sleep in because it soothed her having the doll there).

It took a while, but eventually my mother’s friend realised that the baby’s name wasn’t really Diamond, it was just that her mother couldn’t pronounce certain words any more due to having a stroke. Her actual name was Diana - the name of the stillborn daughter 50 years ago.

It makes me wonder about my own mum, too. She had a daughter who lived for one week, two years after I was born (late 70s, when not much had changed), and also didn’t do a farewell or grieving process. Because the baby was born so early she was always reconciled to the idea she wouldn’t survive, and tried to forget about her and move on - and she sometimes asks me whether she’s being harsh not grieving for her. But now I can’t help wondering what might be there subconsciously that she never really addressed.

This made me think of my grandma. I know she had a few miscarriages, a still birth and a baby who "didn't live very long". But we never heard her mention it, never heard the babies names etc. I know she was DEEPLY concerned as she was in process of dying - because she'd never baptized the babies. She explained this to her priest and how she was worried they wouldn't be in heaven etc. and (thank goodness) he was a kind priest who said "Oh Mary- God has those babies. He has them. You don't need to worry about them." 
And it was SUCH a relief for her. 

I did find the death cert of the baby who only lived a week. She had an infection of some sort (we had to get a doctor friend to read it and explain it) and died at home. My dad (her son) has some dementia so I'm not even sure he remembers hearing about the baby at all. But I do feel sorry for Grandma - and little Mary Joan. 

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