Joy & Austin 28: loss and mourning

[mysweetetc]

12 minutes ago, onekidanddone said:

Why would anyone have an ultrasound that wasn’t performed under a doctor’s care? Seems really foolish to me especially if there some concerns that wouldn’t be picked up an lead to serious complications down the road. 

I myself wouldn't. A lot of people like to see the baby earlier than 20 weeks, however, and a lot of medical practices won't do an ultrasound before the anatomy scan.

I delivered my twins at 31 weeks 11 years ago, and when I found out I was pregnant with my daughter, I actually lied to my OB about my LMP (I knew exactly when it was; I said I didn't) so that they would do a dating ultrasound and I could actually visualize that something was growing in there.

[luv2laugh]

1 hour ago, jillsdopplerofdoom said:

I really hope TLC do not film the funeral or delivery of the baby etc (I wouldn't put it past them).  

TLC doesn’t care about exploiting Joy and doesn’t care about triggering the public. TLC’s elated. For TLC, this grim news means ratings and more money. It’s been rumored something happened with Jill’s birth and  and the Dillards refused to allow TLC to film it. I’d hope Austin (or Joy) refuse but I don’t know....       Will they bite the hand that feeds them?

43 minutes ago, laPapessaGiovanna said:

Of course she's pro-life, she's part of a pro-life cult, nothing new. But how can you say that her grief isn't genuine? Are you God, knowing what people feel in their heart? It's not like since she's pro-life then she can't feel grief.

From what I’ve observed, Lauren is very calculated and attention-seeking. She’s vehemently pro-life and I haven’t seen her express grief without plugging the pro-life agenda for the audience.

On Mother’s Day, despite being visibly pregnant, she strategically announced her 5 week loss as their first baby to her audience of 400k followers and made no mention of her current pregnancy. She desired the tabloids’ focus on her pro-life views and wanted the sympathy of fans. Fans viciously debated whether she was currently pregnant and when questioned by a fan, she teased, “People just made that up” (yet she was very pregnant but still wanted the sympathy). Lauren announced her current pregnancy three days (?) after Mother’s Day.

I have to hand it to Lauren. She’s smart and calculated. Genuine? In my opinion, no. I hope Lauren is OK with taking a backseat and letting family & fans mourn for Joy.

Keep in mind that Lauren Duggar isn’t your friend on Insta, your daughter’s BFF, your sister, etc...

 

She’s a Duggar with a platform and she knows what she’s doing.

Edited July 4, 2019 by luv2laugh

[Beermeet]

44 minutes ago, jillsdopplerofdoom said:

 

This is Joy's second pregnancy and we know Michelle also sadly lost her second baby (Caleb) so that must be on her mind. 

I have to wonder if these miscarriages her children are unfortunately having make her rethink she and the pill did not cause Caleb to pass.  It's a big part of her testimony though.  However,  it's false. 

[Glasgowghirl]

5 minutes ago, luv2laugh said:

They probably will. TLC doesn’t care about exploiting Joy and doesn’t care about triggering the public. For TLC, this grim news means ratings and more money. It’s been rumored something happened with Jill’s birth and TLC wanted it filmed and the Dillards refused. I’d hope Austin would refuse but I don’t know....

From what I’ve observed, Lauren is very calculated and attention-seeking. She’s vehemently pro-life and I haven’t seen her truly grieving without plugging the pro-life agenda for the audience.

On Mother’s Day, despite being visibly pregnant, she strategically announced her 5 week loss on Mother’s Day as their first baby to her audience of 400k followers and made no mention of her current pregnancy. She desired the tabloids focus on her pro-life views and desired the sympathy of fans. Fans viciously debated whether she was currently pregnant or not and she teased in a post that “people just made that up” (yet she was very pregnant). Lauren announced her current pregnancy three days (?) after Mother’s Day.

I have to hand it to Lauren. She’s smart and calculated. Genuine? In my opinion, no. I hope Lauren is OK with taking a backseat and letting family & fans mourn for Joy.

Keep in mind that Lauren Duggar isn’t your friend on Insta, your daughter’s BFF, your sister, etc. She’s a Duggar with a platform and she knows what she’s doing.

I think people need to remember that while we all have our own opinions on people, that is all the they are we do not know them and I'm getting pissed off that people are flat out accusing someone we have only seen on a few edited episodes and a few social media posts about an obviously horrible event for someone of flat out trying to steal attention off someone who just had a still born. People forget Lauren is still young herself and just adjusting to married life and while I didn't feel comfortable seeing her post on Joy's Instagram, she didn't deserve all the hate and abuse she got on Instagram for it. And some of the posts here are not any better.

[mollysmom]

I feel so bad for Joy & Austin. Losing her grandma &  her baby girl, both within a month & both suddenly. That's a whole lot of grief to handle. I feel terrible. My heart breaks reading all of your stories of loss. I just want to hug each one of you. That is a pain that I just can't even imagine dealing with. 

[Chewing Gum]

Aaaand of course Pickles is making people guess from the 10 week ultrasound what could have been wrong with the baby. Just.. don't go to Pickles if you don't want to go throwing something. At her, possible. 

[VelociRapture]

1 minute ago, Glasgowghirl said:

I think people need to remember that while we all have our own opinions on people, that is all the they are we do not know them and I'm getting pissed off that people are flat out accusing someone we have only seen on a few edited episodes and a few social media posts about an obviously horrible event for someone of flat out trying to steal attention off someone who just had a still born. People forget Lauren is still young herself and just adjusting to married life and while I didn't feel comfortable seeing her post on Joy's Instagram, she didn't deserve all the hate and abuse she got on Instagram for it. And some of the posts here are not any better.

I agree completely. Do I think Lauren might be pushing a pro-life message at times? Yes, I do. Do I think that means her grief over her loss isn’t genuine though? No. And do I think she was purposely looking to get attention for herself with that comment? Absolutely not. To the general public it might have appeared that way, but to people who believe as JoStin and SiRen do it was likely a legitimately comforting thing to read. I wouldn’t be surprised if she was honestly confused and hurt over the pushback she received. 

I think it’s important to remember that Joy doesn’t turn 22 until October and Lauren only turned 20 in May - she was still a teenager when she had her miscarriage and announced it to the world. Both of them were far too young to deal with such losses on a national platform. And both of them - along with all of their siblings - were raised in a cult that purposely stunted their emotional intelligence, social skills, and critical thinking. It doesn’t surprise me at all that they’ve each of the Duggars have had pretty public missteps at times as they’ve attempted to navigate life as adults.

Just now, Chewing Gum said:

Aaaand of course Pickles is making people guess from the 10 week ultrasound what could have been wrong with the baby. Just.. don't go to Pickles if you don't want to go throwing something. At her, possible. 

Pickles has done so many questionable things, but this might be the absolute worst. What a disgusting waste of a human being.

[apandaaries]

I’m so sorry for their loss; it’s tragic. But sadly, that can happen with pregnancy. Michelle’s bullshit testimony about her miscarriage is so harmful. It doesn’t matter how devoted one is to one’s deity; pregnancy and labor come with no guarantees. 

I still remember the last trimester of my pregnancy and the accompanying anxiety, despite it being a very low risk pregnancy. If I couldn’t feel her move, I’d start drinking ice water and doing other things to try to wake her up. I’d only feel comfortable once I’d gotten her to move again.  I did that all. The. Time. That’s the anxiety I had without a loss, just already being attached to her and loving her in utero. 

My love and sympathy to those who’ve shared their stories and those who haven’t. Miscarriage and fetal loss can so often be a private, personal grief despite how frequently both occur. I hope everyone is taking care of themselves, especially those for whom this triggers grief. None of us are alone out here. ? 

Edited July 4, 2019 by apandaaries

[Beermeet]

51 minutes ago, luv2laugh said:

TLC doesn’t care about exploiting Joy and doesn’t care about triggering the public. TLC’s elated. For TLC, this grim news means ratings and more money. It’s been rumored something happened with Jill’s birth and  and the Dillards refused to allow TLC to film it. I’d hope Austin (or Joy) refuse but I don’t know....       Will they bite the hand that feeds them?

From what I’ve observed, Lauren is very calculated and attention-seeking. She’s vehemently pro-life and I haven’t seen her express grief without plugging the pro-life agenda for the audience.

On Mother’s Day, despite being visibly pregnant, she strategically announced her 5 week loss as their first baby to her audience of 400k followers and made no mention of her current pregnancy. She desired the tabloids’ focus on her pro-life views and wanted the sympathy of fans. Fans viciously debated whether she was currently pregnant and when questioned by a fan, she teased, “People just made that up” (yet she was very pregnant but still wanted the sympathy). Lauren announced her current pregnancy three days (?) after Mother’s Day.

I have to hand it to Lauren. She’s smart and calculated. Genuine? In my opinion, no. I hope Lauren is OK with taking a backseat and letting family & fans mourn for Joy.

Keep in mind that Lauren Duggar isn’t your friend on Insta, your daughter’s BFF, your sister, etc...

 

She’s a Duggar with a platform and she knows what she’s doing.

And so do you. You are and have been treating Joy and Lauren like you perceive TLC does. Gossip fodder and wild, negative comments.  

[tabitha2]

I wish this matter  was not even discussed here in all honesty.  Seems wrong somehow.

[Glasgowghirl]

12 minutes ago, Chewing Gum said:

Aaaand of course Pickles is making people guess from the 10 week ultrasound what could have been wrong with the baby. Just.. don't go to Pickles if you don't want to go throwing something. At her, possible. 

She is a horrible bitter person, I always say their is a fine line between snarking on the beliefs and the actions of the people we follow and being hateful or a bully to people online. Joy has lost her daughter less than a month after her grandmother died. She also has to watch 4 other family members have their baby's around the time she is due. In most cases of miscarriages and stillbirths, their is no known causes and nothing the mother did caused it. Joy and Austin don't need anyone using their loss as some sort of sick guessing game.

 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

1 hour ago, singsingsing said:

I'm almost 100% sure that they will. I'm sure we'll be seeing Grandma Duggar's funeral as well.

I was wondering this as well, I hope if they do it is was Joy & Austin want vs what her parents & TLC want.  Having a funeral for the loss of a mid pregnancy fetus, isn't something everyone wants. 

They waited a week to announce this, and I'm guessing that is at the wishes of Joy & Austin to have time process this privately.  She may have waited until she delivered, we don't know if she was induced to deliver Annabell, or if she had to have a D&C because she couldn't have her naturally.  Sadly she may not have had a choice in the D&C vs a vaginal delivery if the fetus wouldn't come.  I would hope no one would view this as an abortion, and no one with a heart or soul would say this to Joy & Austin, because a D&C or D&E maybe the only option she has. 

[xlurker]

6 minutes ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

because a D&C or D&E maybe the only option she has

So true.  I could not vaginally deliver my loss, I was hemorrhaging badly and I myself was in trouble at that time.  We don't know specifics, nor should we.  They have horrible beliefs, but they are grieving, and should be left in peace with any support they are receiving to process their loss. 

 

Pickles is a disgusting sad excuse for a human being 

[CancerBomb]

My heart goes out to Joy Anna and Austin for this terrible loss. I cannot imagine their grief, especially with the flood of baby girls coming in the autumn and losing Joy's grandmother last month. If I even remotely knew Joy, I would be bringing her a meal and some cookies as my way of condolences (I'm Southern, when someone experiences a tragedy we bring them dinner). I hope Joy and Austin are able to find peace in this difficult time. 

[Kelsey]

Carlin is with Joy, per Carlin's insta. She said Joy gave birth to baby Annabell. I feel so bad for Joy and Austin. What a traumatic situation.

Edited July 4, 2019 by Kelsey
Gave birth not both autocorrect

[Smee]

I really hope they don’t feel pressure to turn this into “ministry” and film a funeral etc like with Jubilee. They didn’t choose to be in the public eye, even though they chose to stay there, and to have to grieve there must be extra difficult. I kind of hope they shut down Instagram for a while now that it’s public knowledge what happened.

As for Lauren, I don’t think there was anything calculated or political about her message to Joy, but she clearly has not dealt well with her miscarriage and is unable to separate Joy’s loss from her own. It made me cringe and I would be angry at it if I was Joy, but I don’t think there was ill intent, just ignorance. And perhaps that is due to HER being made to grieve in the public eye and turn her miscarriage into ministry too - remember she and Josiah didn’t announce it until quite a while after it happened, I think not until a couple of weeks after Jessa had announced her pregnancy and the counting on season was soon to air. Plus, she’s yet to have a healthy baby of her own - her experience of pregnancy so far has been tied up in her in-laws’ (Jessa’s Ivy, the four in November) and I imagine she’d be terrified to have such a blatant reminder that being young and getting past 20 weeks doesn’t guarantee a good outcome. Even so, if she’s got anywhere near an ounce of logic and empathy, she must think of how hard Jessa’s birth was to see despite being pregnant again herself, and that pain will  be multiplied for Joy come November. I hope she’s sensitive to that when her own baby girl comes.

[Beermeet]

1 minute ago, Kelsey said:

Carlin is with Joy, per Carlin's insta. She said Joy gave both to baby Annabell. I feel so bad for Joy and Austin. What a traumatic situation.

Well, I'm glad her friend went to be with her. OTOH, I do find it odd she posted about it.  It's not something I would do or want my friend to do. But, it's how they roll.  Nothing wrong with not being me. ?‍♀️

[Smee]

2 minutes ago, Kelsey said:

Carlin is with Joy, per Carlin's insta. She said Joy gave both to baby Annabell. I feel so bad for Joy and Austin. What a traumatic situation.

Oh man, I just realised there’s an obviously pregnant Joy as bridesmaid in Carlin’s wedding photos. That’s going to be hard to look back on in years to come.

[Audrey2]

6 minutes ago, Kelsey said:

Carlin is with Joy, per Carlin's insta. She said Joy gave both to baby Annabell. I feel so bad for Joy and Austin. What a traumatic situation.

I haven't been a Carlin fan, but do respect her for going to support Joy, especially so soon after she's been married. I do agree with @Beermeet, though, that this should have been private.

Edited July 4, 2019 by Audrey2

[NorthernGal]

Assuming Carlin is not expecting I think she would be a great support to Joy during her delivery of this child. So many of her sisters are expecting so even if they were supporting her it would have been hard to have them in the room while giving birth. 

I can agree with those that feel this could stay private but I can also feel Joy wanting  the feeling of Annabells existence. It is such a tender time and even though it will be hard I think having pictures to look back on while be of comfort.  I was one of those women that wanted to have my child’s existence validated. Because my feelings were sure real!  My husband gave me a ring years later with diamonds to represent all our pregnancies (those that lived and those that did not). In the middle was a pearl representing wisdom and tears.    It helped me. 

[RosyDaisy]

I have different take on Lauren's comment. These people believe their miscarried/stillborn babies are in Heaven. While we might view Lauren's comment as insensitive and pushing a pro-life agenda, I don't think Joy would. She might even think it is comforting to imagining their babies in Heaven together.

[Alice in Fundieland]

Carlin’s post was odd to me. She posted a picture of Joy and Austin looking understandably devastated, then a picture of Annabell’s footprints, then a smiling selfie of Joy and Carlin. My first thought was they were obviously ok with it or they wouldn’t have let her take the pictures, but they may have thought they were private pictures and they’re also probably in a haze of grief right now. They might not be thinking clearly about anything and that’s ok. Although I don’t think Carlin’s post was in good taste, I’m glad Joy and Austin have people there who love and care about them and my heart breaks for them. 

[Palimpsest]

OK, I skipped pages of this thread and the last one because this is a hard topic for me too.  My condolences and love to everyone who has experienced the terrible loss of a desired child.

Thank you all for sharing your stories.

1 hour ago, tabitha2 said:

I wish this matter  was not even discussed here in all honesty.  Seems wrong somehow.

I am going to disagree respectfully.  It is not so long ago that women were expected not to share their stories of miscarriage and stillbirths.  We were supposed to suck it up and suffer in silence unless we had a healthy baby to show for a pregnancy.  That hurt.  So badly.

It is far healthier to share our experiences openly and be allowed to grieve.  Openly.

@luv2laugh, this is not the first time you have been utterly tone deaf on a thread.  Lauren may simply trying to show empathy in the only way she knows.  She's a kid, albeit a married too young anti-choice Fundie kid.  An immature and tactless kid, but she too has had a loss.  And she is a human being with feelings.  Back off and consider that sometimes it is better to sit on your fingers and not post. 

As for Pickles, that ugly chick is off the rails. Nuts. Disturbed.    If I had my druthers we would never mention Pickles on FJ again because I'm sure she revels in all attention.  Even if it is negative.

 

[JenniferJuniper]

My fear is that TLC will pull out Joy and Austin's contract and require an episode devoted to their loss.

 

[Beermeet]

@Palimpsest.  I took @tabitha2 comment to mean discuss TLC and preconceived notions about Lauren and Joy.  But, if not and come to think of it, probably not what she meant.  I totally agree with your view that it is important for us women to discuss openly if we choose to.  Otherwise,  what? We are " keeping sweet"? Ew. No. This is a fact of life and it happens often as we see here.  Big hugs to you.  Loss is difficult.