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Joy & Austin 28: loss and mourning


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13 hours ago, feministxtian said:

RIght now, the way I'm looking at death is freedom from a body that is broken down, not functioning and has caused life as he knew it to be over. Now it's discomfort, exhaustion, seizures, inability to care for himself...humiliation. 

This sounds bad but when he passes, I'm taking his insulin, his pump, his meds, everything and dumping them in the trash. He'd finally be free of all the things that kept him alive but caused him never-ending discomfort. 

I hope he crosses to the other side to be with his sister who passed in 2006, They were thick as thieves, best friends, and her death killed a part of him. 

I just wanted to share this with you. I think the beautiful sentiment that you just expressed here is what most who die ( or who walk with a dying relative or close friend) feel or will feel when the end of Earthly life is near, a peaceful, at times, acceptance. The greatest gift we can give the dying is the freedom to die with as much dignity and ease as possible. 

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I’m only ever afraid of dying in those instinctive moments where I’m threatened by something. Otherwise, I’m more concerned about the notion of living for another 50 years. That seems like SUCH a long time and the thought of living for so long is exhausting to me. I have low-level suicidal thoughts much of the time not because I hate my life but just because I don’t look forward to the future in any strong way. Right now I’m motivated to live by the fact that I have young children and I want to see them grow and I feel incredibly guilty at the thought of them having to go through childhood without me. I have goals and stuff to keep me occupied but I can’t imagine feeling a really strong desire to live.

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22 minutes ago, Smee said:

I’m only ever afraid of dying in those instinctive moments where I’m threatened by something. Otherwise, I’m more concerned about the notion of living for another 50 years. That seems like SUCH a long time and the thought of living for so long is exhausting to me. I have low-level suicidal thoughts much of the time not because I hate my life but just because I don’t look forward to the future in any strong way. Right now I’m motivated to live by the fact that I have young children and I want to see them grow and I feel incredibly guilty at the thought of them having to go through childhood without me. I have goals and stuff to keep me occupied but I can’t imagine feeling a really strong desire to live.

Big virtual hug. I appreciate your honesty speaking up on the taboo that is living with suicidal thoughts. It's good to focus on those reasons to keep going, even if it feels forced sometimes. 

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I know we've moved on from talking about miscarriage/grief, but the past discussion makes me think I may have recently had a miscarriage/chemical pregnancy without initially realizing it. I'm interested in hearing from some of you more experienced ladies, because I don't really have any experience with that. I'm putting it under a spoiler tag just in case. 

Spoiler

Two months ago, about 5-6 days before my period was due, I had cramps and rust colored spotting, that lasted for a few hours.  At first I thought my period came early (which never happens) but then I realized it fit the description of implantation bleeding perfectly: the color, the duration, the amount, the days after ovulation, the days before my period. I was convinced I was pregnant. I didn't test because it was too early for reliable results. Then, a week later, my period came right on time or close enough not to be noticeable (I have a regular but long cycle, so this would've been about 5 weeks if I was pregnant). I thought it was just a normal period, but reading stuff on here has made me reconsider that. Was the bleeding just something else (though I never have mid-cycle bleeding, not even for ovulation, which had already happened anyway) or was the timing of my "period" coincidental? 

Because I didn't test, I have no way of knowing for sure. I always thought  that if I did have a miscarriage I would view it as losing a baby, but I don't (if that's what it was). I'm kind of disappointed but mostly it's just weird to think I could've been pregnant, such a milestone, and didn't even know.  I'm even relieved (if that's what it was) because it means that me and my husband aren't infertile. And that's so strange to me I don't even know what to think. 

 

Edited by BernRul
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12 hours ago, SassyPants said:

I just wanted to share this with you. I think the beautiful sentiment that you just expressed here is what most who die ( or who walk with a dying relative or close friend) feel or will feel when the end of Earthly life is near, a peaceful, at times, acceptance. The greatest gift we can give the dying is the freedom to die with as much dignity and ease as possible. 

I agree 1000%. The first words out of my mouth when my paternal nana passed, after a 2 yr horrible drawn out death, was " Thank you, God".  I really meant it too. For all the reasons @feministxtian said.  Love you, hun. May he be free. Right before, he may have a very lucid moment.  Enjoy that. Blessings, friend. 

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On 7/18/2019 at 9:06 PM, feministxtian said:

RIght now, the way I'm looking at death is freedom from a body that is broken down, not functioning and has caused life as he knew it to be over. Now it's discomfort, exhaustion, seizures, inability to care for himself...humiliation. 

This sounds bad but when he passes, I'm taking his insulin, his pump, his meds, everything and dumping them in the trash. He'd finally be free of all the things that kept him alive but caused him never-ending discomfort. 

I hope he crosses to the other side to be with his sister who passed in 2006, They were thick as thieves, best friends, and her death killed a part of him. 

I’m so sorry. My father was in hospice for 3 weeks in the hospital and outstayed the hospital’s “2 week rule”.  It was agonizing, and when he passed, I felt somewhat guilty that I was relieved.  In fact, Id taken so much time off work and spent every minute I could there, that I just wanted stability.  I took the next day off work only because I thought people would judge me if I didn’t. (He did not have a funeral per his wishes).  The grieving still continues, even 9.5 years.  But after all the suffering, it felt like a relief.  I think many think that “isn’t normal”, but the experience showed me that everyone’s story is different and we shouldn’t judge grief. 

I wish you all peace. 

Edited by OhNoNike
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On 7/18/2019 at 10:51 AM, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

Now getting old, THAT terrifies me. I'm gong to be 49 soon, and then 50, I mean FUCK, that is OLD.

I'll be sixty four tomorrow. It ain't old. Aging doesn't terrify me, but I am aging well as did my mother, no wrinkles. For some, medical/healthissues may arise, but modern medicine is great. Feeling old is all in the mind. I dont feel old. I enjoy my life.

And yes, when my mama passed at 91, I was thankful. She was in pain and suffering so badly, death was a relief. I miss her, but sometimes death is not a bad thing. 

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3 hours ago, BernRul said:

I know we've moved on from talking about miscarriage/grief, but the past discussion makes me think I may have recently had a miscarriage/chemical pregnancy without initially realizing it. I'm interested in hearing from some of you more experienced ladies, because I don't really have any experience with that. I'm putting it under a spoiler tag just in case. 

 
 
 
 
 
 
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Two months ago, about 5-6 days before my period was due, I had cramps and rust colored spotting, that lasted for a few hours.  At first I thought my period came early (which never happens) but then I realized it fit the description of implantation bleeding perfectly: the color, the duration, the amount, the days after ovulation, the days before my period. I was convinced I was pregnant. I didn't test because it was too early for reliable results. Then, a week later, my period came right on time or close enough not to be noticeable (I have a regular but long cycle, so this would've been about 5 weeks if I was pregnant). I thought it was just a normal period, but reading stuff on here has made me reconsider that. Was the bleeding just something else (though I never have mid-cycle bleeding, not even for ovulation, which had already happened anyway) or was the timing of my "period" coincidental? 

Because I didn't test, I have no way of knowing for sure. I always thought  that if I did have a miscarriage I would view it as losing a baby, but I don't (if that's what it was). I'm kind of disappointed but mostly it's just weird to think I could've been pregnant, such a milestone, and didn't even know.  I'm even relieved (if that's what it was) because it means that me and my husband aren't infertile. And that's so strange to me I don't even know what to think. 

 

As you say it's impossible to know without having tested, but if it was me I wouldn't be thinking pregnancy. Luteal phase spotting (ie bleeding in between ovulation and your period) is very common and there's a poor association with pregnancy.  The folklore on the internet doesn't play out in the evidence as far as bleeding then being a predictor of pregnancy.  There's at least one good study showing a significant decrease in conception in those cycles even when women are trying to conceive.  It's often caused by anovulatory cycle, an ovulation which didn't go well (so not a great luteal cyst and/or low progesterone), the lining of your uterus not forming well that cycle or multiple other things.  If you are pregnant and have first trimester bleeding it's most likely going to be around implantation, but most bleeding at that time will not be pregnancy-related and if anything you're less likely to become pregnant on one of those cycles.   (ex-obstetrics dr, still in an area where I see a lot of miscarriages)

feministxian saying I'm sorry is inadequate, that's heartbreaking.

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10 minutes ago, feministxtian said:

I'm 55 and not afraid of ageing. I actually think I look pretty darn good for 55. 

When both my parents died, I was actually thankful. I think I will be thankful when hub's suffering ends. He has brain damage and almost like dementia from the tumors and radiation, his body doesn't work as it should, he can't walk on his own anymore (he can't even use the walker). For all intents and purposes, he's bedridden. I mean, what kind of life is it when all the things he loved to do he can't do anymore? His hands shake, he forgets things no matter how many times I tell him something, his speech is slurred. 

I won't talk about what this is doing to me physically, but I'm exhausted and in pain. But, I'll keep chugging away and hope I can get either some respite time or a PCA to help me keep him cleaned up and pressure sore free. They're supposed to deliver the hospital bed Monday or Tuesday. 

I'm in a shitty, depressed mood. I finally had my ugly cry breakdown today. 

I don’t have much to say except “bless your husband, family, and yourself .”  May you get respite and comfort in knowing you’ve done as much for your dear husband as you could.

((((((((feministxtian)))))))

 

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I definitely had a fear of death and dying most of my life. The idea of no longer being here, no longer being able to see my family, friends and pets still here and not being able to finish all of the things I wanted to, the places to visit, and all the books I'll never get to read and movies coming out. Missing all the big moments in my family's lives. But also big things I don't want to miss like finally going back to Moon, seeing humans finally land on Mars, building of colonies. In all the books and movies with people who live forever or several centuries always sounded great to me because of all the great and amazing things you'd get to see.

I still look at the deaths of my grandmas, great-grandmas, great-grandpa and now my mom at all the things they missed. Weddings and births. Holidays, birthdays and trips. They all miss so much even at 94 when my great-grandpa passed if he had made it three more years he would have met his great-great-grandson. But as I get older I understand being tired and seeing it as a peaceful release. Happy and no longer in pain and finally being able to spend forever with the people you love and lost. My great-grandpa made it 94 he was healthy right up to the last years but seeing how hard is was for him to lose his wife, both of his daughters, a grandson and great-grandson knowing how happy he was to finally be reunited with all of them after so many years.

I can see how welcoming it can be. Its not the end but forever with the people you love. I really hope you get meet other people in Heaven. How cool would it be meet and talk with Elizabeth I? Jane Austen, Shakespear, Lincoln, Abigail Adams, Florence Nightinggale, Jesus, Galileo, Di Vinci and so many others. To meet all your ancestors.  Do you get to see everything? Like entire universe or universes?I'm no longer afraid of death. Although I still wish I would still be here and alive to see humans land on Mars, and beyond. Darn it I'm a couple centuries too early to be alive during the era when we live on different planets and can fly off when ever we want too. A couple more centuries and I'd have lived during a real life Star Wars! 

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...But also big things I don't want to miss like finally going back to Moon, seeing humans finally land on Mars, building of colonies. In all the books and movies with people who live forever or several centuries always sounded great to me because of all the great and amazing things you'd get to see.


Exactly this is what I would miss the most. I love science and I'm fascinated by astronomy, medicine and so much more. [emoji7] It's for me one of the very reasons to enjoy being alive.
I too feared death most of my life. I thought everything was black afterwards and that terrified me. Now I believe we simply stop existing and that the dead don't know they ever lived. Like we are formed from matter and disintegrate into the tiny molecules. I further believe that the non-existing is actually the normal state and the living part is kind of a bonus. This view has helped me tremendously because we can't imagine not existing. So why should I fear something I won't experience?
I tough have to say that the other opinions and views in this thread are very enriching to me and have challenged me to reconsider my beliefs.
Right now I fear my parents getting older and die eventually. Although both are still healthy I know v they will get old and not being able to experience the things we do like right now like going on a hike. Them not being there for me anymore
[mention]feministxtian[/mention] I'm very sorry. It sounds like your husband is dying from a brain tumor and this is just the worst. Losing your partner while he's still alive because he can't communicate anymore, changes of personality and so on is heart breaking. I wish you all the strength on earth to cope with this horrible situation and your husband a peaceful dying when the time comes.
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13 hours ago, BernRul said:

I know we've moved on from talking about miscarriage/grief, but the past discussion makes me think I may have recently had a miscarriage/chemical pregnancy without initially realizing it. I'm interested in hearing from some of you more experienced ladies, because I don't really have any experience with that. I'm putting it under a spoiler tag just in case. 

  Hide contents

Two months ago, about 5-6 days before my period was due, I had cramps and rust colored spotting, that lasted for a few hours.  At first I thought my period came early (which never happens) but then I realized it fit the description of implantation bleeding perfectly: the color, the duration, the amount, the days after ovulation, the days before my period. I was convinced I was pregnant. I didn't test because it was too early for reliable results. Then, a week later, my period came right on time or close enough not to be noticeable (I have a regular but long cycle, so this would've been about 5 weeks if I was pregnant). I thought it was just a normal period, but reading stuff on here has made me reconsider that. Was the bleeding just something else (though I never have mid-cycle bleeding, not even for ovulation, which had already happened anyway) or was the timing of my "period" coincidental? 

Because I didn't test, I have no way of knowing for sure. I always thought  that if I did have a miscarriage I would view it as losing a baby, but I don't (if that's what it was). I'm kind of disappointed but mostly it's just weird to think I could've been pregnant, such a milestone, and didn't even know.  I'm even relieved (if that's what it was) because it means that me and my husband aren't infertile. And that's so strange to me I don't even know what to think. 

 

Spoiler

I totally understand your confusion/not knowing what to think, I feel the same way. I had an extrauterine pregnancy this spring. I did not know I was pregnant before I already knew that if I was pregnant, the embryo would have to go. I had an internal bleeding, luckily not too much pain and it did not affect me very much. Afterwards I was a little out of it for a week or so, now it is like it never happened. I see the scars on my abdomen, and it is hard to connect those to a pregnancy. I never really felt pregnant, so was I really?

I'm also relieved, because we were on fertility treatment. I haven't been doing any treatments since, and I feel conflicted knowing that my chart will read that I have been pregnant once, if we manage to concieve again. 

So I do not know what to think either.

 

Spoilers b/c of miscarriage talk.

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I admire and have so much respect for those who walk with the dying. Death gives me such bad anxiety. I can’t even fathom my parents dying, and I hate that they’re getting older. Maybe it’s because I’m single and don’t have a family of my own, but I dread the day I’m alone on this earth. 

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5 hours ago, viii said:

I admire and have so much respect for those who walk with the dying. Death gives me such bad anxiety. I can’t even fathom my parents dying, and I hate that they’re getting older. Maybe it’s because I’m single and don’t have a family of my own, but I dread the day I’m alone on this earth. 

One day, I'd like to be a death doula. I've experienced aot of death, my first bigger one at 7.  At this point, I'm not afraid of it and find the end of life process natural, inevitable.  Of course I'm scared to loose people still but, idk. I'd like to loving help like that.  

I also have experienced many *other worldly" happening right after loved ones death.  Way too much to ignore. I honor our spirits. I always tell people to pay attention the first 3 days after a death, when their spirit is still around. 

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Honestly, the only thing I'm afraid of in regards to aging is parents in their twenties calling me middle aged when I have young kids in my thirties.  I wanted to have kids sooner and didn't get the chance to, and I fear value judgements and judgements about my "ability to keep up with them".

I'm not afraid of chronic pain because I'm already dealing with that.  I was sick to near death when I was a younger adult, which is why I didn't have kids when I wanted to.  

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When it comes to death, I think what's most scary to a lot of people is the uncertainty surrounding it - when will I die? How will it happen? Will it hurt? Will I be ready? What will happen to my loved ones? Generally speaking, humans don’t like uncertainty and we’re all kind of programmed to view ourselves as the heroes of our own stories, which is why it can be so difficult for many people to think about their own deaths. 

The way I view it, death is an inevitable part of life and so I don’t really fear it. I’m not looking forward to it and I hope my time doesn’t come before my children are adults, but I don’t spend a lot of time dreading it. I hope that my death isn’t painful, isn’t violent, and arrives for me before my body and mind fail me completely as I’d like to go peacefully and with dignity. 

What scares me far more than my own death is something horrible happening to my family and me being left behind to grieve. I know I’m a tough person and I would find a way to continue on with my life eventually, but I would much rather die myself than have anything happen to my children or my husband - especially my children. I honestly don’t even know what I’d do if my child died before me. It’s legitimately my biggest fear and thinking about something happening to my kids is the single biggest trigger for my anxiety. Personally, I think having to bury your child has to be one of the most unnatural experiences in the world.  No parent should have to experience that ever. 

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The being dead doesn’t worry me— my beliefs take care of that part. What worries me is being frightened and being in pain at the end. That’s the sort of thing has been giving me nightmare lately. While there is only so much we can control, I’ve already made it clear to Mr. Kittens what I want and don’t want at the end of my life. I have papers drawn up as well. He thinks it’s too morbid, but I wish he would think about what he wants too. I’d much rather follow his wishes rather than figure it out under stressful circumstances. 

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I would be one angry ghost or whatever if I died now, with so much life to live and things just on the brink of my dreams.

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I am also one of those people who has extreme death anxiety. Started when I was 10. My parents had no idea what to do and I became a pretty devoted Christian. I used to be able to marry my faith with science but I can't anymore (and also I couldn't see how anyone could be condemned for not having the same beliefs I did), and so the comfort of Heaven has disappeared. I'm only 26 and I think the time is just flying by, and I know it only gets faster. I can't fall asleep on my back because I just think of coffins. Being buried is my biggest fear and I have told my husband about 6000 times that I want to be cremated because I cannot stand the thought of me decaying underground. nope nope nope nope nope. I have anxiety in general, for sure, but this is definitely a big trigger for me. 

But to turn this around, whenever I start wigging out, I tell myself not to die one million times before I actually do (by imagining it). Try to live in the moment (which I'm so bad at but really trying), appreciate this time with pretty much all my family/friends still alive, and hope death acceptance comes as I get older and I lose people I love and my body starts to fail me.  I find that if I'm doing new things and always have goals to be reaching for (like learning a language - Duolingo app! or training for a marathon) I feel much better. And also, there is no alternative so what can I do? 

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I'm not afraid of death, I'm afraid of  near death experience.

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My grandmother had to bury her eldest daughter at an age where it would have been normal for her (my grandmother) to die. I admired greatly how she coped with it and that she didn't lose her will to live. I think she took great comfort in meeting her great-grandchildren.
I've read a lot of books about palliative care (because death anxiety) and from that and from my experience with both grandparents being in palliative care I think it's safe to say that no one has to die in pain at least in a scenario where health care is available. All the symptoms like pain and shortness of breath are manageable. The book I enjoyed the most (and can recommend) is "With the end in mind" by retired palliative care specialist Dr. Kathryn Mannix.

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The only thing we are guaranteed when we come into this world is that we are going to leave.

I have no fear of dying, I'm just not in any rush.

My fear is Alzheimer's. As Seth Rogan said "I think until you see it up close, you have no idea how brutal of a disease it is." In my experience watching a person slowly die from this terminal disease is awful.  That said my nephew has clear directions to give me whatever "medicine" I need if I were ever diagnosed with it. 

My doctor actually told me to have my papers in order and give her a copy of the "No heroic measures" papers. 

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I agree. Loss of my wits is terrifying. My grandmother had dementia but was otherwise physically healthy for 6-7 years in her 80s. I do not want to go through that. Neither does my mom. I hope time allows for ways to expedite the process when one reaches such a stage.

It's another reason I want to be in a right to die state.

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