Dillards 78: Taste the Rainbow

[PennySycamore]

28 minutes ago, clueliss said:

@Vivi_music ms = miz

Ms has actually been an abbreviation, along with Miss and Mrs, for the title Mistress since the 17th Century.  It began to be revived in the 60s and Gloria Steinem named her feminist magazine Ms. in 1972.

Ms.

For a lot of people in the South, Ms never sounded weird.  Anyone else remember how Atticus, Scout and Jem Finch called the old lady sitting on her porch Miz Bubose?  

 

[WarriorJane]

4 hours ago, Meggo said:

My mom and I hate a fight about this when I ordered wedding invites. As I was the only one who would likely get married (still true) - I wanted to include her in things that she might like. 
So when I got my invites done - it was MyDadsFirstName and MyMomsFirstName Waffle (as my parents) and then HIS parents invite you to the wedding of... blah blah.
She was LIVID. She wanted it to be Mr. and Mrs. MyDadsFirstName Waffle
I said "Nope - you're not listed on that."
She said "I am! I'm the Mrs.!" 
She pulled out an Emily post book (that she got for her wedding in 1966....) and swore up one side and down the other. 

Our wedding was not that formal. I mean - it was formal enough - but the only ones wearing tuxes were the groom and grooms attendants (including one of his best female friends who looked SMOKIN' in that tux).

100% agree.  I refuse to be called "Mrs. John Smith".  Like I've ceased to exist in my own right.   Where did I go?  Did I get absorbed into him?  Did he annex me? 

When I got married my invitations were similar, but we said "John Smith and Jane Doe, together with their parents,  mom's name and dad's name smith and mom's  name and dad's  name doe, ....."   there was some blowback from the older folks,  but I didn't care. 

 I'm funny about that stuff though.  Like if I have to fill out a form that asks for "Head of Household ", I cross that out and put in both our names.   Stuff like that irritates me.   My bank for example sends mortgage statements in my husband's name.  We're both on the mortgage,  we're both on the deed. ?  

As far as divorcees using Ms., it may just be that they were early adopters of the practice since it offered a practical solution to the problem of 'what do I call myself'.  Ms. took a long time to gain acceptance and there was a lot of backlash by those who had the usual screwed up views, like "you must be a man hater", or "you want to be a man".  Ugh.

[AtlanticTug]

3 hours ago, theotherelise said:

Derick's job title is "Clerical Assistant III." The pay range is $10.54 min to $18.83 max (LINK). Unlike the systems I'm used to, Clerical Assistant III is actually higher than Clerical Assistant I. The description on the pay site is simply:

"Duties require independent judgement, including directing the work of subordinates and/or performing complex clerical duties. Tasks may involve interpretation of University policies or rules and/or administration of a project/program requiring specialized knowledge."

His job is definitely within the law school. Most of the other Clerical Assistants are also law students and the ones I could find seem to have just finished 1L, just like Derick. But some of the Clerical Assistant I people are not students and some just graduated, so that classification at least seems like it can be a year-round thing. I assume those who just graduated won't keep working a $10/hr job and just haven't fallen off the rolls yet.

Well, he's doing something productive, which is more than we can say for most of the others, save maybe Austin.

[JustEnough]

10 hours ago, Meggo said:

but the only ones wearing tuxes were the groom and grooms attendants (including one of his best female friends who looked SMOKIN' in that tux).

This made me smile. In our wedding DPs sister was his Best Woman and she wore a tux like all of the other (the rest male) attendants on that side. At the reception when she gave her speech she talked about how she had been in probably a dozen+ weddings already by that point but that this one was the first one she had *pockets* and went on about how much better that was than a dress with no pockets. It was awesome ?

[Meggo]

7 hours ago, JustEnough said:

This made me smile. In our wedding DPs sister was his Best Woman and she wore a tux like all of the other (the rest male) attendants on that side. At the reception when she gave her speech she talked about how she had been in probably a dozen+ weddings already by that point but that this one was the first one she had *pockets* and went on about how much better that was than a dress with no pockets. It was awesome ?

She offered to get a bridesmaid dress, or to do the tux with a long skirt instead of pants. And I thought it would look weird. So she wore a tux, the strappiest high heels should could find (because the rest of the guys were all easily over 6'1") and she carried on. She did look amazing. 

[LurkerOverThePond]

18 hours ago, Meggo said:

Our wedding was not that formal. I mean - it was formal enough - but the only ones wearing tuxes were the groom and grooms attendants (including one of his best female friends who looked SMOKIN' in that tux).

Every time I see a woman wearing a well fitting black suit, crisp white shirt, and heels I seriously question whether I'm straight or not  

[Four is Enough]

I live in the Mid Atlantic region. Mrs, or Miss, or Ms, we all get called "Miz" and that's ok by me...

Don't like being called "Mrs. Hisfirstname Four."

Not too keen on being called Ms. Four at all, but I won't bite any more.

Prefer "Ms. My first name My last name"

Of course, Mr. Four DETESTS being called by MY last name... well, you know how I feel. I"m not you; you're not me, and we each have a fine name!

[fluffernutter]

Jill posted another recipe. Stuffed zucchini or squash?  I forget. It doesn't sound bad at all but the photo is again repulsive. 

Ok. Repulsive is a strong word. Unattractive is better.

 

[Dandruff]

21 hours ago, PennySycamore said:

Ms has actually been an abbreviation, along with Miss and Mrs, for the title Mistress since the 17th Century.  It began to be revived in the 60s and Gloria Steinem named her feminist magazine Ms. in 1972.

I'm trying to remember when I first started hearing "Ms.".  I was in elementary school in in the 1960's and the female teachers there were referred to as either Miss or Mrs., without exception.  I can vaguely remember wondering why a woman would want to go by something other than Mrs. (if married) or Miss (if unmarried)...but I was never the kid who was quickest to pick up on new trends.

[Purrl]

I grew up in the Deep South in the 70s and so many people (especially males) said that a Ms was just a Miss who wished she was a Mrs, or vice-versa ... ?

As far as pronunciation here, Mrs and Ms both sound like ”Miz”, so there’s really no distinction there, though Miss sounds like it looks. Miz is usually used for a married or older woman while Miss is used for a younger, unmarried woman if she’s not just referred to by her first name. Here some children still call teenagers and young adults in supervisory positions (babysitters, team leaders, Sunday School teachers, camp counselors, etc) by Miss or Mr. It’s more a term of respect than subservience..

[Mimosa]

This conversation is fascinating to me. It has never occurred to me that people use the term Ms, I've only ever hear Miss or Mrs used in real life. I'm an elementary school teacher and the kids call me Miss First Name. In my first year, I was Miss Last Name but I live and teach in a super small town, so by the second year most of the kids were familiar with me and knew me as First Name out of school, so this past year I morphed into Miss First Name or just Miss. A couple of the married teachers at my school call themselves Mrs, but most of the kids just call all of us Miss, except for the 2 teachers with the same last name, one is Mrs and one is Miss. 

[Iamtheway]

On 7/12/2019 at 12:38 AM, lumpentheologie said:

I personally am anti-honorific and would love a first-name-only world,

Welcome to Sweden! 

I have never used a honorific in my life. For anyone. I don’t move around in the royal circles though ...  maybe I would then. 

[Rachel333]

This story made me think of the conversation here.  

(Autoplay warning) 

"If this President relays an anecdote in which he has someone referring to him as "sir," then some major component of the anecdote is very likely to be wrong."

[FloraKitty35]

The stuffed zucchini picture is a step up for Jill and the plate is attractive.

[Bazinga]

Ok, so I have to share a funny (and sorry if it's a bit TMI for some). So I had to get up and leave the house before my husband (this never happens, but I had a very random morning meeting). I had shaved my legs and was putting on lotion next to him before I got dressed. Later that night he told me how turned on he was watching me put lotion on my legs and all I could do was immediately think about Jill's advice to wives. I guess Jill knows a thing or two about lotioning oneself in front of your spouse. ?

[princessmahina]

On 7/16/2019 at 6:13 PM, WarriorJane said:

100% agree.  I refuse to be called "Mrs. John Smith".  Like I've ceased to exist in my own right.   Where did I go?  Did I get absorbed into him?  Did he annex me? 

When I got married my invitations were similar, but we said "John Smith and Jane Doe, together with their parents,  mom's name and dad's name smith and mom's  name and dad's  name doe, ....."   there was some blowback from the older folks,  but I didn't care. 

 I'm funny about that stuff though.  Like if I have to fill out a form that asks for "Head of Household ", I cross that out and put in both our names.   Stuff like that irritates me.   My bank for example sends mortgage statements in my husband's name.  We're both on the mortgage,  we're both on the deed. ?  

As far as divorcees using Ms., it may just be that they were early adopters of the practice since it offered a practical solution to the problem of 'what do I call myself'.  Ms. took a long time to gain acceptance and there was a lot of backlash by those who had the usual screwed up views, like "you must be a man hater", or "you want to be a man".  Ugh.

I recently got married and it aggravates me SO much that we’ve been getting stuff with Mr and Mrs HisFirstName I didn’t change my name to HisFirstName. We have a friend that’s getting married in the fall who persists in sending wedding/shower invites and the save the date cards to Mr and Mrs HisFirstName. So their gift (were not going) will be labeled as Mr and Mrs HerFirstName. What’s sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. Let’s see how he likes his identity being erased upon marriage! 

[Smee]

I like being Mrs. But I got an email the other day addressed to “Miss Firstname MarriedSurname” and was annoyed because I figure if they’re not going to check what your preferred title is, they should use Ms. I’ve never been Miss MarriedSurname.

[JillyO]

I am completely baffled by this discussion. In Germany, we got rid of the equivalent of Miss, "Fräulein," in the eighties. Every woman has just been "Frau" since. How is it anyone's business if a woman is married or not? It's not like there's a similar distinction for men, so it's extremely hard for me to see this as anything other than sexism.

Here in California, everyone just uses first names. I don't think I've addressed anyone by anything other than their first name since I moved here. But when I have to fill out forms that ask for my preferred title, then of course I select Ms, and so does everyone else I know who identifies as female. My mind is blown that this still seems to be the exception rather than the rule in the English-speaking world, based on the discussion here.

[theotherelise]

@JillyO I'm not sure that Ms. is the exception. I think it's extremely regional. Like California, where I live, we use first names almost exclusively. Outside of k-12 schools, most people are recognized by first name. The only times I get called Mrs. are on formal invitations or occasionally when a freshman journalism student sends me a cold email. 

It's possible there is also a generational thing here. I know my grandma would prefer Mrs. I think some older women see Ms. as a title for grown, single or divorced women. But I'm 30 and don't think anyone of my married friends would want to be Mrs.

[lumpentheologie]

I absolutely thought Ms. was the standard for women, and that only those who want to mark themselves out as traditional and conservative would use Mrs.  The New York Times uses it for all women unless they say they prefer Mrs. (for example they refer to Hillary Clinton with Mrs, I assume because she was trying to appeal to patriarchal swing voters).  To my ear, Mrs. sounds as old-fashioned and anti-feminist as using the husband's first name for both would have sounded 20 years ago.  Honestly, I didn't even know anyone still did the husband's first name thing. 

Edited July 18, 2019 by lumpentheologie

[louisa05]

On 7/16/2019 at 11:43 PM, JustEnough said:

This made me smile. In our wedding DPs sister was his Best Woman and she wore a tux like all of the other (the rest male) attendants on that side. At the reception when she gave her speech she talked about how she had been in probably a dozen+ weddings already by that point but that this one was the first one she had *pockets* and went on about how much better that was than a dress with no pockets. It was awesome ?

For my wedding, I picked a color at a bridal shop and let the women choose their own dresses. SiL got one with pockets. And that was ten years ago.  They do exist. 

[VelociRapture]

I’m 31, married, and I honestly don’t care what title someone uses for me. When I have to put something down on an official form I’ll put down “Mrs.” because that’s what the title is for a married woman in my area. No one seems to use the titles in everyday life though, unless you’re in a profession where it’s commonly used (like teaching, for example.)

Like others have said, I wouldn’t like being addressed as Mrs. Husband’s Full Name. That just erases my identity completely and makes me feel like I don’t matter. If someone sends us something I’d rather it be to “John and Jane Raptor” or “The Raptor Family” or something like that. The only time I think that ever really happens around here now is for wedding invitations though and even then how it’s addressed really depends on how formal the wedding and couple are. My husband and I are more laidback people, so we just addressed them the way we normally would for any piece of mail. 

When it comes to other people I tend to just use whatever name or title they prefer. I feel like that’s the respectful thing to do and that’s how I intend to raise my kids too. 

[JustEnough]

3 hours ago, louisa05 said:

For my wedding, I picked a color at a bridal shop and let the women choose their own dresses. SiL got one with pockets. And that was ten years ago.  They do exist. 

That's cool! I wish in hindsight we'd done the pick a colour you pick a style for our attendants on my side of the wedding party. 

The pocket thing is a theme in my house, which is why I loved her mentioning it so much. I have long lamented the difference between clothing marketed to each gender when it comes to pockets. So many brands of clothing have fewer pockets, smaller pockets, or no pockets at all on the clothing items for girls/women vs those for boys/men. One of my small humans has switched their preference of clothing from the "boy" section of the stores to the "girl" section of the stores and the pocket struggle has been real for them. SH#2 and SH#3 did a little skit wearing the same brand of jeans in the same size and the abundance of pockets for the "boy" ones and the relative lack in the "girl" ones (including one set of fake pockets, where it looks like there is one but it's sewn shut).

*Boy and girl in quotations because clothing doesn't actually have a gender and you can wear clothing from any part of the store regardless of what gender you are. But they are definitely marketed for a gender binary. 

[louisa05]

I don't get the fussing about pockets or not, honestly. I don't like walking around with crap in stuffed in pockets. 

That said, I have a lot of casual dresses with pockets. I think it's a matter of brands and where you shop. Smaller brands that are priced a bit higher seem to be more likely to have them. 

[coexist]

Aside from occasionally jamming my phone or keys into a pocket when I need a free hand, I don't like to put things in my pockets either. I still need all my pants to have them for some reason though.

I have crippling social anxiety and am just generally socially awkward so I would hope never to be asked to be anyone's bridesmaid. If someone were to ask, I think having pockets in my dress would give me somewhere to stuff my hands to keep from feeling so much like a weirdo.