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AuntKrazy

So, I am watching my first-ever season of the Bachlorette (never watched the Bachelor either).  I basically watched an episode last season on a night while doing laundry because Lori Alexander is so awful about it; and I thought "I'll check this out", and really liked the person cast as this season's lead.

It's been very interesting to me from the standpoint of watching someone on the show attempt to gas-light the lead, and continually reframe what happens to his advantage.  There are so many red flags about this guy that he gets away with BECAUSE he is someone with faith. 

There is an episode coming (we know from promos and how the season has built) where he full on slut-shames her. 

I'm finding the whole thing very interesting as I suspect that the villain is actually fundie-leaning and it's showing in ways that really are red flags of abuse.

So I really want to talk about this with anyone who is here because everyone else in my world doesn't really understand the whole "this is very much a fundie thing!" (and why fundie is abusive in and of itself) reaction to some of the undercurrents.

Edited by AuntKrazy
typo
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clueliss

@AuntKrazy I confess - I'm watching.  And I oddly prefer the Bachelorette to the Bachelor (the women just make me sad due to the desperation.  The men, however, crack me up with their chest beating behavior).

Did you watch the premiere of this season?  IIRC Luke P was shown prior to meeting Hannah as a fine upstanding Christian or something.  And his behavior is downright creepy.  

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Smash!

[mention]AuntKrazy[/mention] I‘m watching too. The Bachelor franchise is my guilty pleasure and I‘m already looking forward to Bachelor in Paradise.
As for Luke P., Chris Harrison recently said in an interview for Glamour that Hannah and Luke are both very conservative.
One of the contestants said in the last episode something along the way of Hannah must be in love with Luke because she hasn‘t gotten rid of him yet. This is a very likely scenario.

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AuntKrazy

I absolutely agree with what you both say - and Luke P's behavior is an example of the biggest part of why I left a evangelical/fundie light and now go to a mainline denomination church.  His behavior is WAY too typical of how evangelicalism treats all women.  And I think that Hannah has possibly been conditioned within her faith to accept it/view their dynamic and gender roles as how love is supposed to be.

I also think that the dynamic between the two of them is why so many fundie/evangelical marriages struggle - they are taught that this is normal.  When one is insulated and there are no other 34 other dates to compare it with they get married, have this type of interaction, and are forced to somehow make it work.  I feel like Hannah has been on a journey to discovering that the kind of relaxed interaction she has with some of the other men is more likely to build a lasting foundation for marriage than the regular angst (and gaslighting) of Luke P. 

I actually wish Chris Harrison were on the show more. He seems like he tries to be a decent person.

I think Peter or Tyler would be the best long-term matches for her - especially after she mentioned that Peter's the kind of guy she can see pushing a stroller. . .  

And if they cast Mike as the bachelor, I think I'd watch that just to see him and if he is no-nonsense with the female drama.

Is the tell-all episode they schedule normally good?  Or just regurgitation?

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Smash!

[mention=24685]AuntKrazy[/mention] Thank you for your insight. So you think Lukes behavior is rather a normal behavior in his christian circle than of someone who has a narcissistic disorder? Because a lot of people say he's just a narcissist.

The Tell all episode is usually good. It's among others an opportunity for villains to explain themselves. These days it has also become an audition for Bachelor in Paradise since BIP also casts members who didn't stay long in the season. So you see members speak up you can‘t remember they were there because they went home the first night or after the first week.

By the way BIP is very worth a look. The show doesn't take itself as serious as Bachelor/Bachelorette and the intro is always hilarious

 

The best recaps of the episodes are by former contestant Sharleen Joynt on www.alltheprettypandas.com. She is very articulate and loves to dissect the episodes. She also provides a lot of background information about life as a contestant and how the show is edited to form a particular narrative. I also enjoy the comments of her readers. Plus everything is spoiler free

 

To be honest, I am very stunned at how many leads or contestants conservative Christians are, or at least take faith very seriously.

Hannah and Luke P. are among them. Cassie Randolph, the winner of last year's Bachelor Season, confessed to Colton that she was no longer a virgin. That was a big step for her to say this on National Television because she grew up fundie.

Former Bachelor Sean Lowe is a born-again virgin and when his fiancée Catherine Giudici (the winner of his season) moved to his town just before her wedding, she lived with relatives or friends of his.

 

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clueliss

I love BIP because it is a trainwreck and absolutely worth watching.  

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Smash!
I love BIP because it is a trainwreck and absolutely worth watching.  

And the best is, the show knows and embraces it
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AuntKrazy
6 hours ago, Smash! said:

[mention=24685]AuntKrazy[/mention] Thank you for your insight. So you think Lukes behavior is rather a normal behavior in his christian circle than of someone who has a narcissistic disorder? Because a lot of people say he's just a narcissist.

 

I'm definitely adding BIP to my DVR, and am heading over to the site you linked after typing this, so thank you.

I think there is something about conservative American Christianity that is prone to attract and/or develop narcissists. I think it has to do with a paradigm that encourages individuals that they can know the mind of God for one's self which leads to acting on one's own desires and justifying it as "God's will".

I look at all the scandals and think there is something there producing narcissistic behavior, and failing to recognize it prior to complete self-destruction.

imho, in conservative christianity in the US there seems to be an absence of the recognition of subtlety. And I see it with Luke P - it's either all on or all off. 

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JanasTattooParlor

I have been watching the Bachelorette/Bachelor for years now. I can’t watch the train wreck that is BIP because they always put the contestants that anger me the most on there. The thing that gets me is that in the first episode they did some intros to a couple of the guys, and in Luke’s he said how he was with a lot of girls in college before he found Jesus. So like many of our fundies, he’s also being very hypocritical because according to him, she needs to keep her body a temple but he’s openly admitted to sleeping with lots of girls in college. We already know from previews that he’s gonna lecture her on “keeping the marriage bed pure” and it just makes me furious that he acts like he’s so pure and perfect. 

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  • 4 weeks later...
AuntKrazy

Last night went nearly exactly as I expected with regard to Luke's inability to conceive that his decision about who he wants as his wife wasn't going to come to fruition.  I think of Luke as "fundie lite" with the way he tries to backpeddle and reframe what is being said into a more palatable version of patriarchy.

The rampant support of Luke from MRA types and patriarchal types does not surprise me.

If anything, it showed the gaping chasm between respect for women (and their agency) and a system that objectifies women.  And yet, Luke P remains blind to his demeaning view of Hannah.  He accusation of him being obsessed with sex is like nearly every male in a patriarchal family we discuss here. 

 

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front hugs > duggs

I haven't been watching too much, but read some articles related to evangelicalism and the show. The one thing that kept making me angry (actually, one of many things) was how Luke would keep telling Hannah that she was misunderstanding him. Over and over again the blame was on her for simply not understanding what he was saying. Not that HE was being confusing. Not that HE was backpeddling. Not that HE kept changing his mind or his words. SHE wasn't understanding what he's trying to say! 

Go glad she yelled in his face that she had sex and gave him the finger. 

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Smash!

... not that he was gaslighting her. But I think it's important to note that his actions were encouraged by production. This article makes some great points.
In my opinion Luke was one of the worst villains on the show. Not just annoying but dangerous. It's being that there are lots of christian men out there who have the same mindset as him.
Overall I enjoyed Hannah as the bachelorette and she was a different person than on Coltons season. She really grew on me and I hope she picks Peter

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  • 2 weeks later...
Smash!

So I just watched the second part of Bachelor in Paradise and I'm not impressed so far. It's been actually pretty disappointing. They bring in a ton of contestants who've been in Paradise for the eleventy time before. Chris Bukowski, Bibiana and Kristina (seriously?), Derek, and what the hell is Analiese doing there again? According to the previews Jordan and Dean are joining at some point as well. And after we had enough Jed drama just weeks before a major storyline seems to be Blake, who went from the adored runner up on Becca's season last year to fuckboi in mere minutes of airing.
A few rays of hope were there tough: Yay for Wells as bartender again and the intro didn't disappoint: I laughed out loud when they showed Chris with a walker on the beach, Chris Harrison golfing (I learned he hosts a golfing podcast now) and of Wells.
The most exciting couple so far is Nicole and Clay. I loved him on Becca's season and he seems to be a sincere guy.
Is anyone else watching?

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JanasTattooParlor

I haven’t been watching but I’ve been keeping up with the drama online (school year is about to start so this teacher has been very busy!). I’m shocked that Blake isn’t the nice guy that I loved last year on Becca’s season!  Have you seen that he shared him and Caelynns texts during Stagecoach to try to clear his name from a all the drama? I really don’t think that was the right move. I’m excited to see who the girl Demi is with in the previews is because I couldn’t recognize her from the quick clip they showed. 

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clueliss

This is a show I have in my 'reality' category (rather than reality without the quotes).  Meaning I watch and play a game of 'spot the fake drama' - all things Blake are under fake drama for me.  

Analise is there to scream about Clay.  And likely the only reason she's there.  Especially if she leaves early.

Kristina is probably there only to paint Blake as a bad guy.  

I have no clue what the heck Bibiana is doing there.  Other than to cry.  

I love Wells.

Between BIP and BB Stagecoach is getting a LOT of mention this week.  (all things Blake and Holly/Kat/Jackson over on BB this season)

 

I follow Reality Steve on twitter - he has spoilers and a weekly commentary on the show as well as a podcast I believe.  

 

 

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Smash!
36 minutes ago, JanasTattooParlor said:

I’m shocked that Blake isn’t the nice guy that I loved last year on Becca’s season!  Have you seen that he shared him and Caelynns texts during Stagecoach to try to clear his name from a all the drama? 

Yes! I thought it was so lame. Plus at this point, Blake seems to care only for his image and is enjoying his fame a bit too much. Nick Viall said on the latest episode of his podcast that he was once in a cab with with Blake and when the car stopped at a traffic light he opened the window so the girls outside could see him. 

27 minutes ago, clueliss said:

Meaning I watch and play a game of 'spot the fake drama' - all things Blake are under fake drama for me.  

What is fake drama for you? producer initiated drama? 

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clueliss

More or less.  Anything that looks like producers put person X on to initiate a storyline that then gets a heavy edit.  Anything that reminds me of the series Unreal.  I find it too convenient that we have Blake off the bat involved with four women.  

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Smash!

@clueliss Good point and likely the reason why I don't like the current season so far. I don't mind fake drama as long as it doesn't feel fake. But the moment Caelynn walked into paradise and the topic of Blake came up I knew Kristina would be there soon as well.

For the reason of fake drama the finale of the Bachelorette left me with very mixed feelings: They knew Scott had a girlfriend so he was sent home night one but they didn't know Jed had a girlfriend and came in to solely push his music? Come on producers!

So I feel like they robbed Hannah of the opportunity for a happy ending, maybe because a betrayed Bachelorette who stands up for herself makes for great TV? But maybe it's true what Chris Harrison said on a podcast that they found out with anybody else.

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clueliss

Let’s also point out that Luke P didn’t magically make it from Scotland to Greece all on his own (Bacelorette).  

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Smash!
On 8/9/2019 at 5:11 PM, JanasTattooParlor said:

I haven’t been watching but I’ve been keeping up with the drama online (school year is about to start so this teacher has been very busy!). I’m shocked that Blake isn’t the nice guy that I loved last year on Becca’s season!  Have you seen that he shared him and Caelynns texts during Stagecoach to try to clear his name from a all the drama? I really don’t think that was the right move. I’m excited to see who the girl Demi is with in the previews is because I couldn’t recognize her from the quick clip they showed. 

Can you recommend any good recaps sites? I usually only read the recaps over at www.flare.com because I just love Sharleen Joynts thoughts and Insights. And then there is Lincee at www.ihategreenbeans.com, her recaps are just hilarious!

About this weeks episodes:

  • I'm disappointed and not sure if I keep watching the season (ok I probably end up watching because I'm just addicted). It seems like all couples talked before the show, which takes the fun out of it. Maybe they just need to change the format or bring in Bachelor/ette contestants from other countries (which I loved last season).
  • Mike in Paradise?! Does that mean he's gonna be the Bachelor? 😳 Please nooot! I like him a lot and it's time for a lead of color but come on, Pilot Pete for Bachelor! 😍
  • What's with all the men who speak for their ladies? First was Blake but what else do you expect from him and now Christian.
  • Caelynn first goes on a date with Mike and I looove it. But as soon as Dean is here he doesn't exist anymore. I liked the chemistry between Caelynn and Dean but then I read that she slid into his DMS before the show.
  • Jordan is GOLD. I find his commentary hilarious and I hope he doesn't get booted next week.
  • I loved Tayshia on the Bachelor, but don't on Paradise. She comes across very self-righteous
  • I don't get why all the people love Dylan. He's like "I only have eyes for Hannah and don't want anybody else". He's so sure of their relationship. Like it's week 2 and for me such a behavior would be a mayor red flag. I get that Hannah sends mixed signals and that she should be more upfront with him. But why does he feel betrayed that she haven't told him of the meet-up with Blake before the show? Again, it's week two and they aren't in a super serious exclusive relationship. For me his behavior was on the border of violating her boundaries (can't find the correct English term). Maybe he should ask Hannah if she wants to be exclusive? Which she obiously doesn't want.
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