Gwen Shamblin 8: Not Smart Enough to Think

[wakeuprf]

8 hours ago, ajknowsthings said:

Welcome!  Would love to know some of your experiences - when you say the Smiths do you mean the ones who are in jail?  I do believe it's sad the people who have been pulled into this but even more sad for those who didn't have a choice like the children.  

No, unfortunately. I mean Kent and Regina.

To Remnant's credit, at least for the youngest in the church, they are very sweet kids. In all my time among Christian denominations of all flavors, I don't think I had ever felt served by children. Mostly I was annoyed by kids, but not at Remnant. But their kids are very kind-hearted. And of course, that's where Remnant would brag: that there was so much fruit coming from "this message" that it cascaded from healed personal lives, bad relationships with food, restored marriages, etc. into the next generation whereas if you looked at most other families and churches, you would see so much internal tension and strife because there would be no concept of the "authority line".

On a broader point, Remnant does some things well in emphasizing strong family and community life and investing in the Bible daily. Unfortunately, in their quest to be so anti-Catholic roots, they've been neo-Catholic. And by that, I mean, it seems that there is secret knowledge in the group, knowledge only known by the leaders of Remnant. I tried pressing some of the group who were close to my girlfriend at the time for answers about some pretty basic doctrinal points (why does Remnant interpret X passage Y way when passage Z exists that contradicts Y?), and they never had answers for me and referred me to Tedd or another leader--conversations which never came close to happening. It also follows that inspiration and guidance comes through a papal figure (in this case, Gwen) and is disseminated through her to the people. The personal relationship with God never felt genuine when I talked with these people; it always seemed almost word-of-mouthish.

Like every denomination within Christianity, Remnant excels in some areas (community, family) at the expense of getting sidetracked on destructive doctrinal points (what/how much food matters, the Trinity, Jesus as God). In my experience, most churches or organizations fall into one of four categories:

Low Conviction / Low Compassion - not a Christian organization or largely ineffective
High Conviction / Low Compassion - legalism, no grace, strict, treating God as a punisher of people
Low Conviction / High Compassion - no responsibility, false grace, lax, treating God as loving without limit
High Conviction / High Compassion - an actual Biblical church that doesn't compromise truth or withhold grace

I would rate Remnant is a High Conviction / Low Compassion organization. They have many, many rules, and although I think they think they are gracious, I think they're high on punishment and low on restoring grace. 

[wakeuprf]

3 hours ago, NarcissismKills said:

Wolves devouring sheep is such a powerful image. Thanks for that and for your offer to help with information. Can you tell us about some of the specific damaging things that the leadership of Gwen Shamblin Lara's Remnant Fellowship do to people who join this cult? And have you heard any  of the teachings about men being the primary "decision-makers" in families?

I don't know what you mean about teachings or the decisions that would need to be made by men. It seemed to me mostly that the women just spent a lot of time with their kids and were reasonably submissive to their husbands. I never directly observed any relationships that seemed overly controlling or abusive as the men generally gravitated toward each other and the women gravitated toward each other. During more communal meals at some of the houses, I thought the rapport between husbands and wives and between couples was reasonable and normal, so I may not be all that useful on that front.

As far as damaging teachings - and I don't know that I have a good way to articulate exactly what I mean by this, but I'll try my best - I think the most damaging teaching must be how Gwen somehow makes people feel indebted to her and so thankful for Weigh Down and "this message" and how she can do no wrong. I don't know all that much about cult psychology, but it amazed me how unquestioningly loyal every one was to her in a way that doesn't describe other influential speakers / pastors / self-help gurus. People wouldn't speak about, say, Dave Ramsey and "his message" in the same way that they worship Gwen and "this message". I have yet to figure out how nothing she says or promotes could ever be incorrect. And Gwen on the surface doesn't bask in their praise or would sometimes rebuke people in the middle of a message to remind people that it's all God and so on. But for somebody who speaks against the pursuit of the praise of man so much, she sure does garner and accept an awful lot of it.

Perhaps it's better phrased as somehow Gwen speaks in a way that portrays that since she was "right" about weight loss (which is really just intuitive eating) and people experience "blessing" in shedding all the extra pounds, she must be onto something in other ways. And so, she was right about weight loss. That rightness led to an openness to her teachings or advice about family life, and when she was "right" about being submissive to their spouse and seeing their kids being so cooperative and sweet, then she MUST be right about other things... and on and on until she's just right all the time.

Edited July 1, 2019 by wakeuprf

[OperationSunshine]

1 hour ago, wakeuprf said:

As far as damaging teachings - and I don't know that I have a good way to articulate exactly what I mean by this, but I'll try my best - I think the most damaging teaching must be how Gwen somehow makes people feel indebted to her and so thankful for Weigh Down and "this message" and how she can do no wrong. I don't know all that much about cult psychology, but it amazed me how unquestioningly loyal every one was to her in a way that doesn't describe other influential speakers / pastors / self-help gurus. People wouldn't speak about, say, Dave Ramsey and "his message" in the same way that they worship Gwen and "this message". I have yet to figure out how nothing she says or promotes could ever be incorrect. And Gwen on the surface doesn't bask in their praise or would sometimes rebuke people in the middle of a message to remind people that it's all God and so on. But for somebody who speaks against the pursuit of the praise of man so much, she sure does garner and accept an awful lot of it.

Perhaps it's better phrased as somehow Gwen speaks in a way that portrays that since she was "right" about weight loss (which is really just intuitive eating) and people experience "blessing" in shedding all the extra pounds, she must be onto something in other ways. And so, she was right about weight loss. That rightness led to an openness to her teachings or advice about family life, and when she was "right" about being submissive to their spouse and seeing their kids being so cooperative and sweet, then she MUST be right about other things... and on and on until she's just right all the time.

This is so very, very true. I am shocked, and I mean genuinely mouth dropping shocked, with the amount of constant praise that goes to Gwen. I sat through an entire speech at a blessing shower where the speaker spent 20 minutes praising "Weigh Down," "Gwen," "this message," "these saints," etc... but none of the praise actually went to God. 

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

@wakeuprf  How did dating a member of RF Royalty/ Leadership work since you weren't an RF member?  Was your girlfriend trying to actively recruit you?  It seems, at least from reading here, that RF members only date each other, or sometimes recruit someone he/she is interested in.  

Since you never became a member, was that a factor in your relationship ending?  I assume your girlfriend stayed in, and then married within RF?

Since you've met the Angers, the Days and the Martins, what can you tell us about them from being up close and personal?  Are they different than they present themselves in videos?  How skinny is Gwen in real life? Did you know Michael Shamblin?  Does he look as haunted in real life as he does in music videos?

Sorry for all the questions, but RF fascinates me in a train wreck sort of way.

[wakeuprf]

3 hours ago, OperationSunshine said:

This is so very, very true. I am shocked, and I mean genuinely mouth dropping shocked, with the amount of constant praise that goes to Gwen. I sat through an entire speech at a blessing shower where the speaker spent 20 minutes praising "Weigh Down," "Gwen," "this message," "these saints," etc... but none of the praise actually went to God. 

Exactly. I already had suspicions about Remnant going in, but I gave it a chance and tried to be discerning during my time in the Remnant circles. But the fact that Gwen and God were brought up in the same breath each and every time really bothered me. I complimented some Remnant parents on how well-behaved their children were and their pat answer almost every time was something like, "It's all because of what we are taught at Remnant Fellowship by Gwen Shamblin!"... which is all well and dandy until God doesn't get the credit. 

[wakeuprf]

3 hours ago, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

@wakeuprf  How did dating a member of RF Royalty/ Leadership work since you weren't an RF member?  Was your girlfriend trying to actively recruit you?  It seems, at least from reading here, that RF members only date each other, or sometimes recruit someone he/she is interested in.  

Since you never became a member, was that a factor in your relationship ending?  I assume your girlfriend stayed in, and then married within RF?

Since you've met the Angers, the Days and the Martins, what can you tell us about them from being up close and personal?  Are they different than they present themselves in videos?  How skinny is Gwen in real life? Did you know Michael Shamblin?  Does he look as haunted in real life as he does in music videos?

Sorry for all the questions, but RF fascinates me in a train wreck sort of way.

Without giving away any details that would out myself, our relationship dissolved for reasons entirely unrelated to Remnant. However, since her circle knew I wasn't a member, the adults/leaders did try to advertise for the church as often as possible in our conversations. 

It's mostly true that the "dating scene" is restricted to the internal church or what appears to be an active recruitment. I also observed a strong and rebellious undercurrent among the youth at that church. I think some of those activities have been well-documented from public record in previous threads as far as theft, DUIs, general debauchery, etc. I knew that some youth were not exactly the most celibate or sober-minded individuals, but also, I kind of expect that in such a legalistic context, that outcome is almost expected. If your environment is strict and everything is pretty swiftly or strongly punished, you never harbor or develop an internal sense of responsibility or self-discipline. In other words, if your moral conscience develops outside of you and the groupthink is what keeps you in line, it's only natural that that conscience is never part of you. All of that to say that I didn't ever hear it explicitly stated who one should date, but I think the culture there just sort of guides you to the conclusion that you should be surrounding yourself with saints and then obviously some day reproducing via one of them.

Regarding the leaders, Michael Shamblin does look haunted, miserable, and grim. Almost never joyful. At no point did I feel like the man genuinely smiled. He's not a very good musician/composer/writer... more of just a figurehead because he's part of the Shamblin bloodline. Almost all of the real talent on their worship team is David Martin or John Radebaugh. I also never really saw Michael prominently if he wasn't leading worship.. kinda reclusive. 

Tedd is very charming and charismatic, possibly hinting toward sociopathy. It's a real shame that he got involved in Remnant as I think it plays toward the floor of his potential instead of the ceiling. He would make for a hell of a professor, educator, speaker, etc. and could have done a lot of good for the world.

The Days are almost exactly as they appear on camera. Rob is cool, calm, collected, rational. Tiffani is energetic, bubbly, basically an all-in-one PR manager type for Remnant, always preaching the gospel of Remnant. I sensed a strong relationship between Tiffani and Gwen even if they don't appear together like Candace and Gwen do, but it's perhaps that Tiffani frothes over Gwen as a cheerleader without much reciprocation.

Gwen looked a lot more reasonable when I was involved a few years ago than in recent pictures. Of course, she was only 55ish at the time. Still a little freaky, but not unhealthy and ghostly like she does now.

Edited July 2, 2019 by wakeuprf

[Pianokeeper]

6 hours ago, wakeuprf said:

I don't know what you mean about teachings or the decisions that would need to be made by men. It seemed to me mostly that the women just spent a lot of time with their kids and were reasonably submissive to their husbands. I never directly observed any relationships that seemed overly controlling or abusive as the men generally gravitated toward each other and the women gravitated toward each other. During more communal meals at some of the houses, I thought the rapport between husbands and wives and between couples was reasonable and normal, so I may not be all that useful on that front.

...

 

What exactly would be "reasonably submissive" behavior? 

Just want to make sure I understand you correctly.

[wakeuprf]

30 minutes ago, Pianokeeper said:

What exactly would be "reasonably submissive" behavior? 

Just want to make sure I understand you correctly.

As in the husband didn't seem overly controlling or insistent or condescending that things be done in a certain way nor did the wife just write a blank check for good behavior in a "whatever you want, dear!" kind of a way. It seemed as though husbands and wives were both interested in each other's good and trying to serve each other, even if it might offend the 2019 opinion on gender roles lol. Hopefully that helps? My main point is that the wives didn't act as though they were being chastised or abused and the husbands weren't barking orders.

[Tuesday’s Child]

6 hours ago, wakeuprf said:

Without giving away any details that would out myself, our relationship dissolved for reasons entirely unrelated to Remnant. However, since her circle knew I wasn't a member, the adults/leaders did try to advertise for the church as often as possible in our conversations. 

It's mostly true that the "dating scene" is restricted to the internal church or what appears to be an active recruitment. I also observed a strong and rebellious undercurrent among the youth at that church. I think some of those activities have been well-documented from public record in previous threads as far as theft, DUIs, general debauchery, etc. I knew that some youth were not exactly the most celibate or sober-minded individuals, but also, I kind of expect that in such a legalistic context, that outcome is almost expected. If your environment is strict and everything is pretty swiftly or strongly punished, you never harbor or develop an internal sense of responsibility or self-discipline. In other words, if your moral conscience develops outside of you and the groupthink is what keeps you in line, it's only natural that that conscience is never part of you. All of that to say that I didn't ever hear it explicitly stated who one should date, but I think the culture there just sort of guides you to the conclusion that you should be surrounding yourself with saints and then obviously some day reproducing via one of them.

Regarding the leaders, Michael Shamblin does look haunted, miserable, and grim. Almost never joyful. At no point did I feel like the man genuinely smiled. He's not a very good musician/composer/writer... more of just a figurehead because he's part of the Shamblin bloodline. Almost all of the real talent on their worship team is David Martin or John Radebaugh. I also never really saw Michael prominently if he wasn't leading worship.. kinda reclusive. 

Tedd is very charming and charismatic, possibly hinting toward sociopathy. It's a real shame that he got involved in Remnant as I think it plays toward the floor of his potential instead of the ceiling. He would make for a hell of a professor, educator, speaker, etc. and could have done a lot of good for the world.

The Days are almost exactly as they appear on camera. Rob is cool, calm, collected, rational. Tiffani is energetic, bubbly, basically an all-in-one PR manager type for Remnant, always preaching the gospel of Remnant. I sensed a strong relationship between Tiffani and Gwen even if they don't appear together like Candace and Gwen do, but it's perhaps that Tiffani frothes over Gwen as a cheerleader without much reciprocation.

Gwen looked a lot more reasonable when I was involved a few years ago than in recent pictures. Of course, she was only 55ish at the time. Still a little freaky, but not unhealthy and ghostly like she does now.

What about Elizabeth? And Erin (Elle)? I am also drawn in to all these people who appear to have perfect lives, but I know damn well they don’t. How do they interact with others? With Gwen? There’s a video from a few years back where Elizabeth and Erin are talking about Gwen. Michael and Brandon are there too, and all but Michael are getting emotional about how wonderful Gwen is. Is she really that giving and selfless? Are Elizabeth and Erin really BFF’s?? Is Brandon really such a great guy? I guess I just want to know, did you see any odd behavior from these people, that didn’t line up with the image they are trying to project? 

[Ijustgot2Knowwhy]

Recently my husband and attended a couple of services while visiting his daughter.  I don’t know where to start. The music is like a choreographed action fight song where everyone does the same moves and motions. A kin to a bunch of kids singing wheels on the bus go round and round with accompanying actions.  We live in daily fear they will find a spouse for her so she can stay in US she is on her moms visa TIL she turns 21. She has no education to speak of because her mom pulled her out of school in grade 10. She Has learning difficulties and is slightly developmentally delayed but because no one has told leadership of her difficulties they have decided she should go to college to become a certain thing that she has no interest in or aptitude or ability to do-but they (leadership) have decided that’s what she should do .  She and her mom are overweight and although her mom initially lost nearly 200 lbs they have creeped back on. When she is there and with other Remnant kids she is a model remnant only eating several bites. But alone will eat to excess to feed her constant rejection.  She is included in things  only if she finds out something is going on and shows up.  When the odd time she has been allowed to visit us the first few days she is able to restrain herself but after that it’s like a free for all sneaking boxes of cookies etc. Down to her room.  Thinking we care how many she eats. She denies herself all day then pigs out at night in her room it’s so sad.  We pray everyday that her weight will be the one thing from being married off before she turns 21. How sad is that.  My husband left his family over this church because he couldn’t drink the kook aid and we have seen it tear apart his daughter.  

[AmazonGrace]

In today's episode of Pro-ana Diaries we have a happy ending: Pro-Ana meets the best looking, the richest, the most talented Mr Billionaire Alpha God and he will love her forever as long as she keeps losing weight. 

Spoiler

 

[quiversR4hunting]

22 minutes ago, AmazonGrace said:

In today's episode of Pro-ana Diaries we have a happy ending: Pro-Ana meets the best looking, the richest, the most talented Mr Billionaire Alpha God and he will love her forever as long as she keeps losing weight. 

  Hide contents

 

wow. Talk about taking something completely out of context and completely literal in the bible. On here, we all know that is not what was being said by Matthew & Luke.

In biblical times, people would know that to go through the large gate/door at a city would mean many could come and go including carts, livestock, etc. verses a narrow doorway was meant for 1 to pass through at a time, harder to get through. But of course I didn't have to explain any of this to FJers because we are all smarter than Gwen. 

[sajetime]

A lot of drama going down on the closed group Weigh Down Ministries Facebook page! Gwen Shamblin Lara and her team have changed All Access into Weigh Down TV and essentially jacked up the price a ton — while pretending it’s a GREAT deal. A lot of people are threatening to cancel their subscriptions.

The dutiful Remnant members are acting like its the best thing ever to pay more for the same material.

Luckily I took screenshots before the unhappy ones were deleted! Will quote some later.

It’s really amazing people are being asked to pay ANYTHING to watch Gwen’s OLD class videos. And I do mean old. The Last Exodus is from 2003! The Change series (featuring appearances from several people who have since left screaming from Remnant!) is from 2005. Even Weigh Down Basics is 10 years old now at this point.

She should be paying THEM to watch!

 

 

Edited July 2, 2019 by sajetime

[NarcissismKills]

On 7/1/2019 at 2:51 PM, wakeuprf said:

No, unfortunately. I mean Kent and Regina.

To Remnant's credit, at least for the youngest in the church, they are very sweet kids. In all my time among Christian denominations of all flavors, I don't think I had ever felt served by children. Mostly I was annoyed by kids, but not at Remnant. But their kids are very kind-hearted. And of course, that's where Remnant would brag: that there was so much fruit coming from "this message" that it cascaded from healed personal lives, bad relationships with food, restored marriages, etc. into the next generation whereas if you looked at most other families and churches, you would see so much internal tension and strife because there would be no concept of the "authority line".

 

On 7/1/2019 at 2:51 PM, wakeuprf said:

 

Do you know where Kent Smith works? Regina is working over at Philips Healthcare now, along with a lot of other Remnant Fellowship cult people, as they are hiring each other in the IT department. Nepotism is another way to say CORRUPTION. Also there is active RF cult recruiting going on in that workplace.

Can you explain the "authority line" a little bit? I think that's what I was thinking about when I was asking about whether men are considered the decision-makers. Thanks.

On 7/2/2019 at 10:55 AM, sajetime said:

 

 

This is good news. Maybe they are actually having some money problems and that's why they suddenly increased prices? After all, the subscription system hasn't even been around for very long. Oh I really hope there's a financial implosion very soon.

Edited July 5, 2019 by Georgiana
Typo... "very"

[Insightful]

Why does Gwen Shamblin Lara keep attempting to humanize or sexualize God?  "Good looking", "Rich", "Powerful" ...  In previous posts, she's referred to God in a husbandly-like fashion.  I don't understand where the turn happened but in MY Christian world, God has been described as my Father....loving unconditionally, forgiving, etc., NEVER a spouse!

Also, the focus on stuff is not missed.  Rich, gems...stuff, you will be rewarded with stuff when you die if only you follow the words of Gwen Shamblin Lara.  BTW, God promises GRACE and FORGIVENESS when we follow Him. ?

[Fashion Forward]

2 hours ago, NarcissismKills said:

Do you know where Kent Smith works?

He works at Weigh Down and has been for over 5 years now.

2 hours ago, sajetime said:

A lot of drama going down on the closed group Weigh Down Ministries Facebook page! Gwen Shamblin Lara and her team have changed All Access into Weigh Down TV and essentially jacked up the price a ton — while pretending it’s a GREAT deal. A lot of people are threatening to cancel their subscriptions.

On their website, they're advertising it as $9.99/month but I remember it being $25/month so I don't understand why people are complaining that the prices are jacked up?

[Fashion Forward]

On 7/2/2019 at 11:38 PM, sajetime said:

 

Thank you for explaining!! That is definitely a big jump ? what the heck. 

Edited July 5, 2019 by laPapessaGiovanna
Removed private content

[RFSurvivor_2]

19 minutes ago, Fashion Forward said:

Thank you for explaining!! That is definitely a big jump ? what the heck. 

Agreed. That’s quite the jump, especially concerning the “quality” of the content provided. 

[OperationSunshine]

2 hours ago, sajetime said:

Because the $9.99 monthly price doesn’t include all the content it used to.

Classes are no longer included, so if you take a class, you have to “rent” that class ALSO for an ADDITIONAL $29.99 per month, $79.99 per quarter or $299 per year.

Instead of paying $300 for All Access for a year, you’d have to pay $420 to have the same content all year. That’s a 40 percent increase!

Example: For the member who wants the monthly subscription and take an 8-week class, they now spend $80 where two months of All Access — that used to include all classes — cost only $50. That’s 60 percent more!

And for what? For the same tired material!

 

 

Are any of the people upset on the Facebook group from RF?

[sajetime]

48 minutes ago, OperationSunshine said:

Are any of the people upset on the Facebook group from RF?

Nope. The RF members are enthusiastically still drinking Gwen’s more expensive sugar-free Kool-Aid.

 

[OperationSunshine]

8 minutes ago, sajetime said:

Nope. The RF members are enthusiastically still drinking Gwen’s more expensive sugar-free Kool-Aid.

 

Let me guess...

"I am just to thankful that God ALLOWS Gwen to be so GENEROUS as to charge so LITTLE to hear this TRUTH..." 

 

[RFsurvivor]

20 hours ago, OperationSunshine said:

Let me guess...

"I am just to thankful that God ALLOWS Gwen to be so GENEROUS as to charge so LITTLE to hear this TRUTH..." 

 

Wow that needed a trigger warning cause it hits too close to home....I wouldn’t be surprised if atleast one person said that exactly

[OperationSunshine]

3 minutes ago, RFsurvivor said:

Wow that needed a trigger warning cause it hits too close to home....I wouldn’t be surprised if atleast one person said that exactly

I wouldn't be surprised either.

[OperationSunshine]

Is it wrong that I'd love to know who said each quote? ?

Edited July 5, 2019 by Georgiana
Removing Post hidden for violating the TOS

[NarcissismKills]

On 7/2/2019 at 4:37 PM, Fashion Forward said:

He works at Weigh Down and has been for over 5 years now.

 

So maybe Kent Smith didn't feel he was making enough money at WeighDown anymore and sent his wife, Regina, to work with computers over at Philips Healthcare.  I wonder if WeighDown is less able to support the cult than before.