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Palimpsest

Paxman On the Queen's Children

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Waffle Time
Palimpsest

BBC 5 documentary now up on youtube.  It kicked a few monarchist sacred cows but is overall sympathetic.  Or so I hear.  I've only watched  Part 1 so far.

I find it surprisingly accurate.  Especially about the young Charles and Anne having fun.  Whatever you think of Paxman he got some pretty good interviews.  He absolutely nailed Dickie Arbiter (Palace press officer in the 1990s) for lying like a hound.  And he is funny.

But it reminded me of something very unpleasant.  I remember sometime in the 1970s watching the 1969 documentary the Queen now has hidden away never to be seen again .   She is not only sitting on the footage because it theoretically destroyed the "mystery" of the Royal Family.

It certainly destroyed some of the magic.  The most memorable thing about it to me was the disgust I felt at one short scene.  It showed that Prince Phillip is not alone in overt racism.  The Queen was "warned" by a Private Secretary before an audience that she was about to meet a gorilla.  Everyone, including the Queen,  snickers and giggles before controlling their faces.  Then the Ambassador of an African nation is ushered in to meet her.  I still feel enraged.

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hoipolloi

Wow. I had wondered why the 1969 documentary has never been available but just that one part would certainly explain it. Recently binged my way through a bunch of Netflix BRF "documentaries" as well as the first two seasons of The Crown.* Now, I will have to start on the BBC series. Thanks, @Palimpsest!

In some of the BRF biographies I've read, the fundamental racism of the BRF has come up before, especially in connection with the Queen Mother. She was said to be very open about her regret over the collapse of the British Empire, believing the citizens of various African & other non-white nations to be incapable of governing themselves.

*Can't WAIT to see Olivia Colman as Her Majesty. Really like The Favourite -- such a good, dark movie.

Edited by hoipolloi
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Angelic83

Oh I haven’t seen this documentry, going to have to watch it. And can’t wait for the new series of the crown. 

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VelociRapture
On 6/16/2019 at 12:50 PM, Palimpsest said:

BBC 5 documentary now up on youtube.  It kicked a few monarchist sacred cows but is overall sympathetic.  Or so I hear.  I've only watched  Part 1 so far.

I find it surprisingly accurate.  Especially about the young Charles and Anne having fun.  Whatever you think of Paxman he got some pretty good interviews.  He absolutely nailed Dickie Arbiter (Palace press officer in the 1990s) for lying like a hound.  And he is funny.

But it reminded me of something very unpleasant.  I remember sometime in the 1970s watching the 1969 documentary the Queen now has hidden away never to be seen again .   She is not only sitting on the footage because it theoretically destroyed the "mystery" of the Royal Family.

It certainly destroyed some of the magic.  The most memorable thing about it to me was the disgust I felt at one short scene.  It showed that Prince Phillip is not alone in overt racism.  The Queen was "warned" by a Private Secretary before an audience that she was about to meet a gorilla.  Everyone, including the Queen,  snickers and giggles before controlling their faces.  Then the Ambassador of an African nation is ushered in to meet her.  I still feel enraged.

Now I’m really curious about what type of welcome Meghan really got when she was first introduced to the family. I know there was at least one incident where Princess Michael of Kent (I believe it was her) wore a pretty racist brooch to a family lunch Meghan attended. And I want to say William and Catherine might have removed paintings depicting slavery from their home prior to the Obamas coming to visit one time - though I know Catherine at least appears to have a genuine interest in art and that might be why the art was there in the first place. I do wonder if the family were genuinely welcoming to her, if they were privately badmouthing her, or if they were overtly unwelcoming. I’d guess it likely would depend on the individual person, though I’d assume they at least maintained the appearance of civility and politeness. 

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tabitha2

I don’t guess Harry would have married her if there was all that much overt racism going on and he knew she would not be welcome. 

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Waffle Time
Palimpsest
2 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

Now I’m really curious about what type of welcome Meghan really got when she was first introduced to the family. I know there was at least one incident where Princess Michael of Kent (I believe it was her) wore a pretty racist brooch to a family lunch Meghan attended.

I don't follow them closely but Princess Michael is quite notorious.  There have been many instances of overt racism from her over the years.  But most recently she named two black sheep Venus and Serena, and she did wear a blackamoor brooch to the Queen's Christmas lunch, also attended by Meghan and her mother.  https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/dec/22/princess-michael-apologises-wearing-racist-jewellery-meghan-markle-christmas-lunch

Quote

Markle is understood to have met Princess Michael of Kent at the lunch, but it is not known if she was wearing the brooch at the time.

A spokesman for the princess said: “The brooch was a gift and has been worn many times before. Princess Michael is very sorry and distressed that it has caused offence.”

It is not the first time the princess has been accused of racism. In 2004, she reportedly instructed African American customers in a New York restaurant to “go back to the colonies” in an argument about noise.

The princess, whose father was an SS officer, denied the incident a few months later in an interview with ITV, saying: “I even pretended years ago to be an African, a half-caste African, but because of my light eyes I did not get away with it, but I dyed my hair black.

“I had this adventure with these absolutely adorable, special people and to call me racist: it’s a knife through the heart because I really love these people.”

Oh, no.  She isn't racist at all. She probably thought wearing that brooch was a dainty compliment to Meghan. :angry-devil:

As for the rest of them, who knows what their real attitudes are. The Queen obviously approved the marriage.  Most of the senior royals understand that overt racism doesn't play well these days.  So they were just "joking" or misspoke when they slip.  The Queen Mum and Phillip were among the worst offenders in the past. 

Also, even if most of the royals are totes OK with Meghan being a POC, it doesn't mean the gray men and the palace staff are similarly minded.  She has a very hard row to hoe. 

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VelociRapture
1 hour ago, Palimpsest said:

I don't follow them closely but Princess Michael is quite notorious.  There have been many instances of overt racism from her over the years.  But most recently she named two black sheep Venus and Serena, and she did wear a blackamoor brooch to the Queen's Christmas lunch, also attended by Meghan and her mother.  https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/dec/22/princess-michael-apologises-wearing-racist-jewellery-meghan-markle-christmas-lunch

Oh, no.  She isn't racist at all. She probably thought wearing that brooch was a dainty compliment to Meghan. :angry-devil:

As for the rest of them, who knows what their real attitudes are. The Queen obviously approved the marriage.  Most of the senior royals understand that overt racism doesn't play well these days.  So they were just "joking" or misspoke when they slip.  The Queen Mum and Phillip were among the worst offenders in the past. 

Also, even if most of the royals are totes OK with Meghan being a POC, it doesn't mean the gray men and the palace staff are similarly minded.  She has a very hard row to hoe. 

Princess Michael really does sound like the absolute worst. And where does she get off telling black people in New York to go back to the colonies?! First off, not your country so shut your bigoted trap. And secondly, New York was part of the colonies, so they were exactly where she wanted them to be.* Entitled twit. 

*Oh wait. She must have meant super scary black peoples colonies. My bad. :pb_rollseyes:

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Waffle Time
Palimpsest

It is not just the royals themselves.  It is also the aristos they hang with.  The ones that dissed Kate for years for being the daughter of an air stewardess and a pilot.  She's so common!  But she has never dressed up as a Nazi.

Sorry Harry, it seems mean to bring this up again because you were only 20 when you sported that Nazi uniform.  But why the f'ing hell did the heir and the spare go to a "Colonials and Natives" party in the first place.  Wasn't the very theme a danger zone?

Or not.  Because it was being thrown by pals of Prince Charles.  Of course.  Richard Meade threw the bash.  And it was a grand betrayal of the little prince that his vile costume was leaked.   https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/why-a-nazi-prince-stood-out-at-the-colonials-and-natives-party-kbgfvkmfv65

The royals covered for that one with some re-education of Harry.  And William, who apparently saw no issue with Harry's costume.  What on earth do they teach at Eton that anyone thought the party or the costume was appropriate?

I mean, it is not as though David and Wallis were not known Nazi sympathisers.  It is not as though Phil's sisters weren't married to known Nazis.   They got cut off, but somehow the message did not get through to Wills and Harry sufficiently that Nazi = bad.

You would think the royals would have had more sense.

So, yes.  The royals may have embraced Meghan for the moment because Harry loves her.  And it is great to seem open to POCs for political reasons.   

But if Meghan puts a foot or two wrong then they will have her out faster than you can say Fergie.  Actually even faster because Fergie is lily white.  And then they will say Megs is mentally unstable.  Just like Diana.

In my opinion only, of course.  But the BRF has fully earned its reputation for ruthlessness.  

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VelociRapture
3 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

It is not just the royals themselves.  It is also the aristos they hang with.  The ones that dissed Kate for years for being the daughter of an air stewardess and a pilot.  She's so common!  But she has never dressed up as a Nazi.

Sorry Harry, it seems mean to bring this up again because you were only 20 when you sported that Nazi uniform.  But why the f'ing hell did the heir and the spare go to a "Colonials and Natives" party in the first place.  Wasn't the very theme a danger zone?

Or not.  Because it was being thrown by pals of Prince Charles.  Of course.  Richard Meade threw the bash.  And it was a grand betrayal of the little prince that his vile costume was leaked.   https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/why-a-nazi-prince-stood-out-at-the-colonials-and-natives-party-kbgfvkmfv65

The royals covered for that one with some re-education of Harry.  And William, who apparently saw no issue with Harry's costume.  What on earth do they teach at Eton that anyone thought the party or the costume was appropriate?

I mean, it is not as though David and Wallis were not known Nazi sympathisers.  It is not as though Phil's sisters weren't married to known Nazis.   They got cut off, but somehow the message did not get through to Wills and Harry sufficiently that Nazi = bad.

You would think the royals would have had more sense.

So, yes.  The royals may have embraced Meghan for the moment because Harry loves her.  And it is great to seem open to POCs for political reasons.   

But if Meghan puts a foot or two wrong then they will have her out faster than you can say Fergie.  Actually even faster because Fergie is lily white.  And then they will say Megs is mentally unstable.  Just like Diana.

In my opinion only, of course.  But the BRF has fully earned its reputation for ruthlessness.  

It was fourteen years ago, but 20 is more than old enough to know better. I would hope he (and William) both did a lot of growing up in that period of time. I do think it’s still fair to bring it up as a valid example of the BRF really falling down on the job of teaching their kids basic common sense, as well as revealing just what kind of private beliefs they hold. Will and Harry learned that stuff somewhere after all and given the family history I’d say they heard a good deal of that stuff from their own family. Hopefully they learned from that and - with help from their wives - are doing right by their children in ensuring the next generation understand why those beliefs are so abhorrent and shouldn’t be tolerated. 

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Cleopatra7

I remember reading how one of the British tabloids (probably Daily Fail) warned that Meghan was introducing “exotic” DNA into the royal family and I thought, “ Oh, you mean like someone whose grandparents weren’t cousins?” A family who spent the bulk of the nineteenth and twentieth centuries in a genetic bottleneck should be thankful for any opportunity to breath new life into their DNA. 

Let’s be real here, the Windsors do more to discredit eugenics than any horrors committed by the Nazis. Theoretically, the Windsors should be the smartest most attractive people because of their supposedly “superior breeding” and access to the best education money can buy, yet they’re all so aggressively average when it comes to looks, poise, and intelligence. I’m being rough on the BRF, but it’s not like the US is in any position to judge, what with the current inhabitant in the White House and the fact that we could probably fund five royal families with what we spend on aircraft carriers alone.

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tabitha2

The Queen was and is a very pretty woman and Phillip was really handsome when young. None of their children unfortunately got any of the looks and so far none the Grandchildren while well meaning are nothing impressive in brains or looks or even particularly dignified But then it’s the style to pretend they are just like us and act relatable and certain ones really get into the act and believe it . 

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VVV
On 7/2/2019 at 2:21 PM, Palimpsest said:

I don't follow them closely but Princess Michael is quite notorious.  There have been many instances of overt racism from her over the years.  But most recently she named two black sheep Venus and Serena, and she did wear a blackamoor brooch to the Queen's Christmas lunch, also attended by Meghan and her mother.  https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/dec/22/princess-michael-apologises-wearing-racist-jewellery-meghan-markle-christmas-lunch

Oh, no.  She isn't racist at all. She probably thought wearing that brooch was a dainty compliment to Meghan. :angry-devil:

As for the rest of them, who knows what their real attitudes are. The Queen obviously approved the marriage.  Most of the senior royals understand that overt racism doesn't play well these days.  So they were just "joking" or misspoke when they slip.  The Queen Mum and Phillip were among the worst offenders in the past. 

Also, even if most of the royals are totes OK with Meghan being a POC, it doesn't mean the gray men and the palace staff are similarly minded.  She has a very hard row to hoe. 

I thought I read somewhere years ago that someone in the BRF was joking about a hypothetical contest in which first prize was two hours with the Princess Michael and second prize was four hours with the Princess Michael, or something like that. I don't think she's liked even in the BRF.

My opinion, Meghan is a lot smarter than her detractors give her credit for, and also a lot smarter and better equipped to deal with the gray men and palace staff than either Sarah Ferguson or Diana Spencer was. It doesn't mean she'll never make a misstep--I believe her New York baby shower was a serious misstep--but she won't let others define her by her mistakes. 

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Four is Enough

I do love that Charlotte is her great granny's mini-me..

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