Mrs Midwest

[Ozlsn]

8 hours ago, ViolaSebastian said:

It seems as though most of these Red Pill men are unmarried and not in long-term relationships.

Yeah I think there's a reason for that. Well more than one actually - their misogyny turns off a lot of women who might actually be interested in them, and their misogyny means that they reject a lot of women as beneath them (who might actually be interested in them until they got to know them, then see previous point). 

They also know that they aren't able to support a stay-at-home wife, which in their own ideology effectively makes them beta-males, unable to attract a mate because the alpha-males are wealthier (and also possibly less misogynistic - just a theory here.) Obviously this isn't how they want to see themselves so instead of, you know, going out and trying to meet a woman who might be interested in them and then working on not being a total arsehole and not driving her away they sit in front of their computers and whinge a lot. Which makes them kind of below beta actually, so gamma-males? Omega-males? My Greek alphabet is limited.

[JermajestyDuggar]

5 hours ago, Ozlsn said:

Yeah I think there's a reason for that. Well more than one actually - their misogyny turns off a lot of women who might actually be interested in them, and their misogyny means that they reject a lot of women as beneath them (who might actually be interested in them until they got to know them, then see previous point). 

They also know that they aren't able to support a stay-at-home wife, which in their own ideology effectively makes them beta-males, unable to attract a mate because the alpha-males are wealthier (and also possibly less misogynistic - just a theory here.) Obviously this isn't how they want to see themselves so instead of, you know, going out and trying to meet a woman who might be interested in them and then working on not being a total arsehole and not driving her away they sit in front of their computers and whinge a lot. Which makes them kind of below beta actually, so gamma-males? Omega-males? My Greek alphabet is limited.

I also think there’s overlap with incels. They have a hard time getting dates in general so they turn to this red pill bull shit to feel better about their being alone.

[ViolaSebastian]

I was thinking about how I was surprised she didn’t do more videos about homemaking topics—budgeting, laundry, cooking tutorials, meal planning, flower arranging, sewing, and the like. Then I realized that with the focus on beauty, she’s appealing to specifically to teenagers. Most adult women have been inundated with these types of diet tips and skin care routines for years—she’s purposely marketing herself to youth. She isn’t about being a better homemaker, her channel is about getting the Red Pill message to 15-year-olds. 

At least the fundies we talk about here are logically consistent.  There’s even a logical consistency to MGTOW—don’t want to be in relationships with women, so they aren’t. But from what I can tell, most Red Pill men aren’t even looking for a wife. So they’re expecting us to be something that’s impossible without commitment from their end. It’s not for lack of women, as there seem to be plenty who subscribe to this line of thinking. I guess you could go with “they’re going to get everything if there’s a divorce,” but you could probably get any one of these ladies to agree to a pre-nuptial agreement. 

So really, the only thing you can land on is that there’s some sort of failure on their end, either financial, character-wise, etc., as you both pointed out. But that’s the big disconnect. Most women don’t have parents who are going to support me kicking around at home waiting for a guy to take care of them. That’s just not realistic, even for young women. So women in that situation *have* to work, they have to be independent because there’s a dearth of men who can/will support a stay-at-home partner. But here’s the even more fucked-up part—these Red Pill men turn around and blame women for this. So their worldview is inconsistent and the individual men within it aren’t following through, which forces like-minded women to be independent, then shit all over them for being independent. So at its very core, this is a philosophy that’s create an endless feedback loop that shits all over women. A perpetual-motion misogyny machine, if you will. 

[Tigerchild74]

People do realize that "dressing up" in the opposite gender clothing (I saw far more men dressed up as women in the military and with campus crusade/mainstream evangelical church youth orgs and the like, always as a 'joke' or costume, growing up than I have being part of the extended LGBTQ community) is NOT a comparable experience to what trans people will experience in the same community, right?

My god, do people think that trans men and boys do NOT face the same kind of danger as other trans people?  That's bullshit.  Yes, nobody cares in our society (and not until you get into the deeper dives of fundamentalism) if girls and women wear pants and have shorter haircuts, and women have more flexibility in regards to how they can look and still be categorized as feminine--unfortunately in our culture that's not really as flexible for masculine.

BUT all that flexibility EVAPORATES when that person is known or suspected to be genuinely trans.  Nobody gave a shit with my eldest dressed all in pants/tees and had a very short haircut. Until he came out as trans.  Then the death and rape threats and fearmongering started.  Trans kids of all genders get lured by "friends" and then raped and killed because of their identity.  They get kicked out of their homes.  Trans men do NOT have it "easier" because the average woman can wear pants with less sanction than the average man wearing a skirt.

[Ozlsn]

Thinking more about the Red Pill stuff - I think it's yet another misdirection of anger of men who previously were top of the social tree by virtue of being male and white, and who previously had access to good income jobs even without high school diplomas. A lot of those jobs have disappeared or the wages have been screwed downwards or stayed static, and they are competing for a smaller number of available jobs with a wider pool of people, including women. I think these guys know deep down that they can't afford to support a family on one income (some can barely support themselves) so they don't try - but they promote this magical ideological thinking that if women/minorities "knew their place" then things would revert to the magical version of the 1950s which never actually existed and the things that did exist - the actual jobs with liveable incomes - would return. So it's sort of a cargo cult in many ways.

@Tigerchild74I hope your son is OK now, and safe. The "not safe if suspected of being trans" thing is currently happening with the child of a friend of mine - I have no idea if this child is in fact trans, but I have been disgusted and angered by the response of the school to what is very obviously bullying based entirely on dress preference. It has also been disturbing seeing how some staff are effectively on the side of the bullies, to the point of turning a blind eye or dismissing incidents. 

Edited November 3, 2019 by Ozlsn
Just once I'd like to notice the typos before I hit post.

[Tigerchild74]

4 hours ago, ViolaSebastian said:

So really, the only thing you can land on is that there’s some sort of failure on their end, either financial, character-wise, etc., as you both pointed out. But that’s the big disconnect. Most women don’t have parents who are going to support me kicking around at home waiting for a guy to take care of them. That’s just not realistic, even for young women. So women in that situation *have* to work, they have to be independent because there’s a dearth of men who can/will support a stay-at-home partner. But here’s the even more fucked-up part—these Red Pill men turn around and blame women for this. So their worldview is inconsistent and the individual men within it aren’t following through, which forces like-minded women to be independent, then shit all over them for being independent. So at its very core, this is a philosophy that’s create an endless feedback loop that shits all over women. A perpetual-motion misogyny machine, if you will. 

As far as fundie land, I've been thinking about this a lot too.  In a way it is really shocking to me how quickly this stay at home daughter fad has become "idealized best practices." in just a very short (30ish years?) period of time.  I grew up in SBC and IFB churches.  While yes, there was boatloads of purity and misogyny and all of that, women were not expected to sit around their childhood homes as adults to flutter their eyelashes and help daddy.  They were encouraged to take on single spinster missionary work, get an apartment with other single Christian girls and work suitable non manly jobs (teacher, admin, bank teller, telephone operator, ect) until they met someone or just continue on working and just do a ton of free labor and fund projects around the church.  I am sure there were some people that ascribed to the daddy cult worldview but I don't think that was /mainstream/ fundamentalism (in the way that courtship wasn't either, though thank god that fad seems to have had a short if extremely destructive life).  I do see a lot more courting of red pillers in my extended family's churches, which makes some sense to me as they are bleeding out membership for a variety of reasons.  But I think it's largely a holdover of people still wanting to hang on to the fad of "pure daughters waiting at home for daddy to attract and give to men he likes/wants to bring into his influence" mixed up with the misogyny of "if only women fucked who we told them to fuck and when then we could save these young men for jesus!"  It's so gross and ugly.  I think the fad of courting red pill people will be relatively short lived though because even in a group of awkward and not very socially savvy men, a lot of these guys for various reasons (some they can't help, some that they've just coddled) stand out even further.  I would worry less if people had not been provoked by people seeking to influence them into actually acting on their fantasies of hunting down and killing women as a way of claiming power.  I hope this is not the new direction that the church is going to go, but considering how myopic than ever before they seem to be moving, it would not surprise me. 

Ozlsn, my son has found his place, and is an activist in our community now.  Our SD has taken on increasingly inclusive and bold protections for trans students, which results in a lot of out of state and pop up troll group activity but the community response each time has been overwhelmingly protective and supportive now.  He graduates this year though, so it's a new transition coming for me, because obviously, once he's off at university and out in the world not in my home, that too is another level of danger.  He's pretty savvy and safe, though the process of getting there was pretty damn painful.  And he's very good at humoring me and checking in regularly and has promised to do the same once he's away at school.  I know every parent worries at sending their kids to uni.  Drinking, sexual assaults, ect are no joke (we've had those discussions too, about how to protect your drinks, safe behavior, ect.).  Worrying about someone assaulting him because of his gender identity is just one more worry in a way.  Sometimes I feel like a fundie-lite Christiany Christian parent who in addition to the usual worries also worries about their kid adopting beliefs that are different from their own, jepordizing their eternal life--it's just that I have to worry that some kid with their beliefs will beat up or murder MY kid.   A little cherry on top of the college parent worry sundae.

Edited November 3, 2019 by Tigerchild74

[ViolaSebastian]

[savannahhmarie]

2 hours ago, ViolaSebastian said:

She has this need to build up these types of men and give them the illusion of the ideal wife they can never have because alas, she is married! I wonder how many men message her telling her this, how she must be glowing all day from the compliments. This is what she gets from supporting posts like these. Absolutely gross!

[ViolaSebastian]

37 minutes ago, savannahhmarie said:

She has this need to build up these types of men and give them the illusion of the ideal wife they can never have because alas, she is married! I wonder how many men message her telling her this, how she must be glowing all day from the compliments. This is what she gets from supporting posts like these. Absolutely gross!

Not to mention, from the Christian point of view, this is blasphemous. Several of the comments on the Instagram post point that out. I get the whole "you're your own God" or "Christ-consciousness" or "God is inside of us all," but when you post facile little quotes with no context, it's up for interpretation. 

[ViolaSebastian]

Okay, as promised, here we go: Yogioabs guide to being more submissive.

1. He starts off by talking about how he gets feedback from women about how feminism is hurting their relationships. Yogi starts off with a horrifying story about a woman who hit her partner. Apparently, he finally threatened to hit her back and then she said she felt more submission towards him. He says that she reports that she now respects him more. In the past, this mystery commentator had relationships where her partners allowed her to walk all over them. She says that because of this she didn't feel like they loved her. Yogi talks about how this is terrible, convoluted logic, which blames men for "not correcting her terrible behavior." We're really off to a great start, here. 

2. Yogi Unbearable goes into how feminism is forcing men to be more passive. He has four recommendations to be more submissive, which will make your man more interested in you. He goes on to emphasize that this is not a joke. If you're submissive, men will feel "joy, some harmony, some bliss" from being around your feminine energy. Very few people are teaching women that today. If you go to work, you're destroying your femininity and becoming independent. 

3. Yogi does a pitch for his Instagram and Twitter account. Apparently he gets a lot of DMs. 

4. Oh, thank goodness. Maybe we're on to the tips. But alas, we are not there yet. He starts to talk about how society is forcing women to be men. Apparently there's some song that has the lyric "I gotta be the man." So this is proof that society thinks that women singing a song about being a man is laudable. There's also an article in the New Yorker about a 38-year-old woman who wants IVF, but Poland apparently made it illegal to access her frozen embryos. In the article, she apparently said her feminist attitude was a barrier to finding a partner.

5. Yogi starts to get defensive about people calling him a "misogynist pig." Holy shit, he starts to go on about how if you think he's a misogynist, "you're already screwing up." If you feel that way, it just shows the level of entitlement that shows that women don't think that men have the right to be the authority in telling women what to do.

6. Oh thank you 6 pound, 8 ounce baby Jesus, we're here. Tip 1: Get yourself off a pedestal. Women need praise to feel worth. Men don't have to do that. They don't post Instagram photos and get feedback. Women are perpetual victims because women on their own are worthless because they have to take care of children. Men on their own are providers. Men aren't insecure at their core the way that women are. Women make up for their insecurity with "narcissistic self-praise." So when men tell women they're not being enough of a woman, "they explode." Because men have standards and preferences. If you don't abide by those preferences, then "you're going to be slept on." (I'm not exactly sure what this means. Probably sex and then ghosting?) If you have humility, men are more like to be devoted to you. He goes on about how "Fempowerment" teaches women that they can do things independently, so why would you need a man? And if you don't need a man, why would you be submissive? And the point of being submissive is "to let a man be a man." So if you're on this pedestal and think "you're smart, hardworking, capable, and strong, all these things, you are the man." So you're not going to be able to cultivate your relationship.

7. Realize there are better things and he has other options. If you don't have it, he's going to find someone else with "feminine energy." So this tip is "to be a little bit insecure about yourself." He gets a lot of DMs from women who lost relationships because of their "terrible behavior." Realize that what makes am an interested in you is your character, not just your looks. You have to have something inside of you that other women don't have. Men get addicted to a woman's "feminine essence." Anyway, realize there are other women out there that he can get, so cultivate your feminine energy that's ready to give and nurture and be submissive and listen to your man---and to please him. He talks about men cheating and said there's no guarantee that this advice is going to prevent that. But if you trust in your strong feminine energy (and not strong like feminism!), if he decides to cheat, that's on him, because you're being submissive. 

8. Third tip. We're almost there. If you want to be provided for, and you're watching channels like Mrs. Midwest  you have to be someone who a man would want to provide for. Why would a man want to provide for a woman if she thinks she doesn't need a man? Why would he want to provide for someone who can provide for herself? Someone who is ferocious, courageous, and strong? Trust me, he says, he doesn't give a [bleeped out expletive.] Being submissive doesn't mean doing whatever he wants, but it does mean being obedient. [Um...] It means followed his orders and asking permission for things. It is not being a doormat, it's allowing the man in your life to be the "amazing, wonderful person he is." We shouldn't complain when men aren't doing enough for women today, when women aren't giving men a space to do that. 

9. Lord almighty, we're at the final tip, which is "realize that it's the way nature intended it to be." [Fucking evolutionary psychology, get outta here]. Don't get mad at him because he's the leader and you're submissive; that's the way things are supposed to be. If you're Christian, you believe God made it this way, man and woman, yadda yadda yadda. If feel this submissive thing is right on an intuitive level, then you're going to have healthier children. Happy children are the backbone of the future and the society. If you're sick of having to follow a man, realize he's "sick of your nagging, too." 

10. Conclusion. Submissive is about ensuring a harmonious future for you. There's a shift here "from me to we" and modern women have a really hard time with this because they feel like they're giving up too much. 

An extra point: a woman in the comments laments about her rough periods. Someone replied with this: "Some women have hard menstrual cycles. That doesn't mean you should take birth control pills since they mess up hormones. You should just endure that period and thats it. Also, try a lion diet."

Nice. I'm going to go take a hot shower now. 

 

[JermajestyDuggar]

So this Yogi Bear Guy is single, right? I can’t imagine him ever having a long lasting meaningful relationship. 

[ViolaSebastian]

It's interesting to me that most men I've dated (most of whom are traditionally masculine because for whatever reason that's just what I am, personally, attracted to without any sort of political or philosophical idea behind it) really dislike when women do the "damsel in distress" thing. They tend to like not having to get called over to put windshield wipers on or hang pictures. So honestly I'm sort of stumped over that. And yes, I've been flat out told that by two different men. 

I'm obviously pretty interested in this whole idea and how it functions, mostly because my boyfriend and I have a relationship that's fairly traditional [without this wild level of omgwtfbbq misogyny] by default, just because that's the sort of people we are. (I don't, under any circumstance, think that this is the way everyone needs to go, and I strongly believe people need to structure their primary romantic relationship in a manner that works for them). However, we don't have this level of naval-gazing bullshit about it. Maybe it's because I've just never thought to examine it to this degree. In any case, it's just fascinating to me that people are politicizing and philosophizing about women making food and men fixing cars. If that's the way you want to live your life, live it that way. But give other people the room to be themselves as well, without any hate or backlash. If you don't like how independent or assertive a woman is, fine. Don't date her. That's all that really needs to be said about it. 

[ViolaSebastian]

.

Edited November 4, 2019 by ViolaSebastian

[Katzchen24]

I don't understand how people like Yogipops above can function in society. Much like the fundies we snark on here, they seem to show a total inability to accept change or be flexible in their views. I've been in a number of long term relationships, and my part in each one varied according to our skillsets and preferences. I've been the primary cook, I've not been the primary cook. I've had cleaners when it's been economically possible (I admit to my privilege) or my partner has shared the work. I've been the one with the drivers license, or been the one driven because my partner thinks I'm a terrible driver. At the moment I'm in the middle of renovations. I'm painting, sanding, pulling up carpet and shifting furniture. In all that time, I've worked or studied. Sometimes life changes and you have to change with it.
 

There's no one pattern that fits all relationships, and mostly we try to find the best way to make them work for all. IMO no-one has the right to judge how a relationship functions as long as all involved are happy, healthy and safe. Mrs Midwest and Yogipops have a very narrow view of the world and I don't know how it can make them happy in the long run. In the meantime, they're spreading harmful and hateful ideas which can only damage others. That's revolting.

Edited November 4, 2019 by Katzchen24
I didn't finish what I was saying.

[ViolaSebastian]

He is just SO aggressively not-bright. At all. But he tries so, so hard to be intellectual and relate these big concepts and he can't manage it. No one uses Freud seriously anymore, come on. I can see where he gets there on some of his stuff, but his logic and historical knowledge is so convoluted that he comes out in the completely wrong place. For instance, in this one at 5:55, he goes into "one of the reasons" why women started wearing pants. It's about power, domination, it started in the 1960s (LMAO). Honey, no. It originally started because pants are handier and safer and more easy to move in than long skirts. Yes, it got adopted by the women's suffragette movement as a metaphor for independence, but it first started out so we could go for long walks. Yeesh.

 

[AliceInFundyland]

Women ghost men.

I've done it.  Not proud of it. But it's happened. And it's been done to me.

Extremely masculine men have insecurities and want to be listened to. My current one does.

There's no one size fits all to "traditional"

Vomit. Gag. Barf.

[ViolaSebastian]

Guys. If you have an extra ten minutes sometime in the next year, I highly encourage you watch what is, perhaps, and without hyperbole, the stupidest thing I have ever had the chance to encounter in all my years on this planet.

 

[kaluce]

12 minutes ago, ViolaSebastian said:

Guys. If you have an extra ten minutes sometime in the next year, I highly encourage you watch what is, perhaps, and without hyperbole, the stupidest thing I have ever had the chance to encounter in all my years on this planet.

 

This man is the human equivalent to a shit stain. I can't. 

[ViolaSebastian]

3 minutes ago, kaluce said:

This man is the human equivalent to a shit stain. I can't. 

Right?! I started a recap, but I determined I just could not do justice to it. It really begs to be witnessed firsthand. 

 

[Pleiades_06]

42 minutes ago, ViolaSebastian said:

Right?! I started a recap, but I determined I just could not do justice to it. It really begs to be witnessed firsthand. 

 

How inclusive of him to offer his T-shirt in unisex and offer pink T-shirts to men

[Ozlsn]

5 hours ago, ViolaSebastian said:

Oh thank you 6 pound, 8 ounce baby Jesus, we're here. Tip 1: Get yourself off a pedestal. Women need praise to feel worth. Men don't have to do that. They don't post Instagram photos and get feedback.

Says the guy with his own YouTube and Instagram... yeah definitely no ego feedback happening there.

So his tips are essentially "don't be insecure except about whether you're good enough", "don't be a doormat but obey instantly" and "it's totally evolution but God said to too".

2 hours ago, ViolaSebastian said:

He is just SO aggressively not-bright. 

Hey he can use big words! Like "wheelbarrow"! I bet he even knows what some of them mean!

[The Mother Dust]

3 hours ago, ViolaSebastian said:

Guys. If you have an extra ten minutes sometime in the next year, I highly encourage you watch what is, perhaps, and without hyperbole, the stupidest thing I have ever had the chance to encounter in all my years on this planet.

 

I reported/flagged the video.  

[ViolaSebastian]

I just need to save this, for perpetuity. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

4 minutes ago, ViolaSebastian said:

I just need to save this, for perpetuity. 

Yogi is not smarter than your average bear. 

[ViolaSebastian]

1 minute ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Yogi is not smarter than your average bear. 

I'm unsure if he even realizes that there are methods of birth control other than the hormonal contraceptive pill. He definitely doesn't think that coitus interruptus and the natural family planning method are methods of birth control.