Mrs Midwest

[savannahhmarie]

I think the appeal of traditionalist men for them is that they are more willing to support a stay-at-home wife. She has said many times she doesn’t like working and attributes her laziness to “femininity.” She has said in many videos that in order to live that lifestyle you need to carefully select a willing partner who doesn’t mind supporting you, and has a couple of videos on how to attract such  said “masculine” man.

9 hours ago, Perrierwithlemon said:

I'm not sure if this belongs here, and it will probably seem a bit out of place, but I want to hear others' opinions.

What do you think of Caitlin when compared to other "femininity" YouTubers (i.e., School of Affluence, Modern Lady, Jennifer Scott, etc.)? Or what do you think of these types of YouTubers in general?

• For me, the School of Affluence woman (Anna) seems to direct her content to "sugar-baby" type women who want to live luxurious lifestyles. Although she's also pushing the "feminine/ladylike" brand, hers feels pretty opposite to Caitlin's brand of femininity. I think a major difference is the political and religious aspects.
• The Modern Lady (Devoreaux) makes short little videos with tips for being ladylike and polite. I think that some of her content comes as common sense to some, but I can see her tips being helpful to many people. I don't find her offensive at all.
• And the Daily Connoisseur/Jennifer Scott started off as an author and ended up joining the YouTuber crowd. I read her first book, Lessons from Madame Chic, right after I graduated high school. I enjoyed it and actually found it quite helpful for me at the time. However, there's just something about her that I dislike whenever I see her on YouTube and Instagram because I find her a little annoying and judgmental.

Sometimes I think about this because I can't stand Caitlin, yet I also don't like double standards. What is it that separates these women and their "brands" of femininity? Religion? Politics? Personality? Or do you think they belong in roughly the same category? I'd love to hear what others have to say!

It’s interesting you bring this up. Ive never heard of the others you mentioned, but actually like School of Affluence. It’s entertaining during those long days of data entry at work. I like Anna’s accent and tips on how to look a bit more put together. I think the difference is that Caitlin presents this information with a religious and moralistic tone. If you ever had sex before marriage and if you don’t keep yourself looking like a soap opera actress, well, you’re pretty much done for finding a good man willing to support you. Anna is more about how to look the part, regardless of your past, you can always just work hard, invest on nice clothes and that’s your way in. And she always emphasizes that while the guy should pay for you on dates, you should always have money of your own in case he leaves. Whereas Caitlin’s financial plan was the court system that favors women. I say WAS because now with all the YouTube money she’s raking in she might actually be okay. She’s actually a working woman now, even though she’s selling the dream of the kept woman as long as you play all your cards right early in youth— that’s the message I get from her anyway.  

[Soulhuntress]

I was told about ContraPoints and Natalie Wynn is amazing.  Snarky brilliant and elegant transwoman.  She seriously is amazing.  Mrs. Midwest?  Kind of embarrassed that she is that s red pill wank toy. 

Edited October 29, 2019 by Soulhuntress

[ViolaSebastian]

I think if you're not being careful and conscious, it can be easy to get sucked into this stuff because it speaks so well to our subconscious programming. In my case, I'm only one generation away from that traditional, women-at-home or earning-less-than-men, women must defer to men-type of mentality. My father, while not opposed to women working, is a huge misogynist, and that came across in the way I was raised the messages I received growing up. Even if we don't grow up with the explicit messages from our primary caregivers, we're still inundated with less obvious messages through the media that plays on old tropes and archetypes. Some of this stuff can "feel right" to us because we've been told the "women lesser and different than men" lesson since we were literally babies.* 

There's also the issue of femininity being automatically devalued in our society. To risk sounding like Mrs. Midwest for just a moment, it is a shame that traditionally female values, roles, and professions are considered to be "less than" traditionally masculine ones. For example, the push towards STEM has always bothered me somewhat, because instead of paying teachers, social workers, and childcare professionals what they're worth (and it's A LOT), we're pushing boys and girls to go into traditionally male, higher-paying jobs as if that'll fix the problem. Well, it goes without saying that children still need to be cared for and taught and that vulnerable people will still need help into perpetuity. So just by emphasizing that boys and girls should be engineers and scientists, instead of teachers and childcare providers and the like, we've given the message that "women's work" isn't as important or as monetarily worthy as "men's work." And, needless to say, that really bothers me. The same extends to stay-at-home mothers. Many countries give a "baby bonus" to families that have children and offer substantial paid maternity and paternity leave, because being involved in raising children *is* important to the health of a society--whether it's a stay-at-home-mom or stay-at-home-dad doing that work. However, again, particularly in the United States, we like to devalue that contribution. So even less-obvious ideas, such as the push towards STEM, are steeped in misogyny. There's nothing wrong with being feminine. There isn't. The problem comes when femininity is treated as a less desirable option than masculinity.

But this is all the kind of nuance that Mrs. Midwest misses with her wholesale rejection of feminism--because all the points I just made are feminists ones. Furthermore, her continued emphasis on conventional beauty, shopping, weight loss, the purile "Disney Princess Energy," and her husbear (ugh) plays into those traditional tropes and archetypes and, instead of making a statement about femininity, instead plays into the hands of Red Pillers who want to keep women unsatisfied with and focused on their looks and suffering from low self-esteem, which improves their chances of taking advantage of women. 

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-parent-baby-communication/parent-infant-communication-differs-by-gender-shortly-after-birth-idUSKBN0IO1KU20141104

Edited October 29, 2019 by ViolaSebastian

[Perrierwithlemon]

3 hours ago, savannahhmarie said:

I like Anna’s accent and tips on how to look a bit more put together.

I love her accent too! It's probably because her voice reminds me of my ballet teacher's voice when I was a child. I think you had good points about what separates the too. Caitlin's videos are judgmental towards other women's choices, and she makes you feel like her idea of femininity is the only way. Anna's videos are more "open" and feel like she's just giving you options of being more feminine. Actually, I think Caitlin promotes a submissive form of femininity while Anna promotes an elegant form of femininity. 

[ViolaSebastian]

Someone is going to have to fill me in here, doesn’t  Anna’s whole schtick center around being a certain way to get very rich men to date you? 

[Perrierwithlemon]

51 minutes ago, ViolaSebastian said:

Someone is going to have to fill me in here, doesn’t  Anna’s whole schtick center around being a certain way to get very rich men to date you? 

Yes, that's exactly what she does. However, I think since its such an exclusive lifestyle that she's promoting, I don't feel like she expects every woman to live like that because that is unrealistic. But sometimes people, like me occasionally,  just watch her for reasons like @savannahhmarie said.

5 hours ago, savannahhmarie said:

It’s entertaining during those long days of data entry at work. I like Anna’s accent and tips on how to look a bit more put together.

 

[kaluce]

It's this kind of content and language that I think really sets her apart and makes her not just a youtuber discussing femininity, but rather something a lot darker and tbh a trash human. I love feminine and stay at home mom youtubers. Show me a Day in the Life with Kids or a "here's some makeup tips and tricks" (I grew up a tom boy so these are some of my faves) but Caitlin is deceptive.

You can't preach "i love all women and cheer them on" and then turn around and say "Oh society is in decline because people make different choices than my particular brand of christian morality and redpill beliefs" or "A woman in a masculine role means society is in the toilet, oh woe is me." 

Also she never defines MASCULINITY and FEMININITY. It's just what will get her more likes/followers/attention from yogioabs at that particular moment. 

Sorry if this is a jumble- I feel like y'all are much more eloquent than I am ?

Also I can't f'ing stand the little flower at the end of these sentences. What a little passive aggressive thing to do. 

Edited October 29, 2019 by kaluce
added yet MORE word vomit.

[ViolaSebastian]

Her twitter is really a goldmine of creepy-ass comments.

That's...that's not what she's saying, my dude. 

 

[JermajestyDuggar]

24 minutes ago, ViolaSebastian said:

Her twitter is really a goldmine of creepy-ass comments.

That's...that's not what she's saying, my dude. 

 

Just imagine all the creepy private messages she must get every single day. 

[ViolaSebastian]

6 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Just imagine all the creepy private messages she must get every single day. 

Spoiler

 

[ViolaSebastian]

IMAGINE being a person of color who is ungrateful for western civilization. ?

 

[Perrierwithlemon]

Wow. Never visited her twitter until now... Let's just say I had LOTS of WTF moments.

[ViolaSebastian]

7 minutes ago, Perrierwithlemon said:

Wow. Never visited her twitter until now... Let's just say I had LOTS of WTF moments.

It was honestly hard to pick which to share and which to leave behind.

Yeah...lmao to not being incredibly well-paid for blowing shit up with awesome explosions. LMAO.

[savannahhmarie]

One thing I don't understand is how does she have SO much support? Even Mr. Atheist said he got more resistance than usual for his analysis, and well, you know what happened to Jaclyn Glenn. I don't get it. I thought it was almost 2020 when people no longer think that way. It's so confusing and makes me question everything I thought was right. Perhaps the trend is changing? Also, what do you guys think of that video she shared on Twitter, on the parody of housewives by BBC that supposedly backfired? As a full time female worker, I watch that I can't help but agree I need a nap too. And yes, wouldn't it be nice if someone just took care of all of our bills. But is it a gender thing or just an adult thing? Was it really that great in the 40s-50s when women were not expected to work? I've lived the housewife life before, but the guy was broke and I was pinching pennies in his mother's house, so I can't say I really have experienced the lifestyle Mrs. Midwest and School of Affluence preach for. Because even in all her thrift, Mrs. Midwest has it made by already having their own house (even before YouTube). What do you guys think about all Yogioabs always says, that women were meant to be provided for? Is there a natural/biological basis for that? I want to hear the opinion of intelligent people, not misguided folk like Mrs. Midwest and Yogioabs. Sorry, it's just that it's so hard to be hard-working, and then for it to turn out it was the wrong thing to begin with?! This is why I need to stop listening to them, but I just can't help it.

[JermajestyDuggar]

26 minutes ago, savannahhmarie said:

One thing I don't understand is how does she have SO much support? Even Mr. Atheist said he got more resistance than usual for his analysis, and well, you know what happened to Jaclyn Glenn. I don't get it. I thought it was almost 2020 when people no longer think that way. It's so confusing and makes me question everything I thought was right. Perhaps the trend is changing? Also, what do you guys think of that video she shared on Twitter, on the parody of housewives by BBC that supposedly backfired? As a full time female worker, I watch that I can't help but agree I need a nap too. And yes, wouldn't it be nice if someone just took care of all of our bills. But is it a gender thing or just an adult thing? Was it really that great in the 40s-50s when women were not expected to work? I've lived the housewife life before, but the guy was broke and I was pinching pennies in his mother's house, so I can't say I really have experienced the lifestyle Mrs. Midwest and School of Affluence preach for. Because even in all her thrift, Mrs. Midwest has it made by already having their own house (even before YouTube). What do you guys think about all Yogioabs always says, that women were meant to be provided for? Is there a natural/biological basis for that? I want to hear the opinion of intelligent people, not misguided folk like Mrs. Midwest and Yogioabs. Sorry, it's just that it's so hard to be hard-working, and then for it to turn out it was the wrong thing to begin with?! This is why I need to stop listening to them, but I just can't help it.

The Red Pill community is made up of a lot of lonely people who spend a lot of time online. So it doesn’t surprise me at all. They are an extremely vocal and verbally aggressive minority. 

Edited October 30, 2019 by JermajestyDuggar

[kaluce]

7 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

The Red Pill community is made up of a lot of lonely people who spend a lot of time online. So it doesn’t surprise me at all. They are an extremely vocal and verbally aggressive minority. 

I second this. 

She doesn't just have a religious following, but also a redpill and #tradlife following. They get incredibly defensive and pull together when they feel criticized. 

49 minutes ago, savannahhmarie said:

One thing I don't understand is how does she have SO much support? Even Mr. Atheist said he got more resistance than usual for his analysis, and well, you know what happened to Jaclyn Glenn. I don't get it. I thought it was almost 2020 when people no longer think that way. It's so confusing and makes me question everything I thought was right. Perhaps the trend is changing? Also, what do you guys think of that video she shared on Twitter, on the parody of housewives by BBC that supposedly backfired? As a full time female worker, I watch that I can't help but agree I need a nap too. And yes, wouldn't it be nice if someone just took care of all of our bills. But is it a gender thing or just an adult thing? Was it really that great in the 40s-50s when women were not expected to work? I've lived the housewife life before, but the guy was broke and I was pinching pennies in his mother's house, so I can't say I really have experienced the lifestyle Mrs. Midwest and School of Affluence preach for. Because even in all her thrift, Mrs. Midwest has it made by already having their own house (even before YouTube). What do you guys think about all Yogioabs always says, that women were meant to be provided for? Is there a natural/biological basis for that? I want to hear the opinion of intelligent people, not misguided folk like Mrs. Midwest and Yogioabs. Sorry, it's just that it's so hard to be hard-working, and then for it to turn out it was the wrong thing to begin with?! This is why I need to stop listening to them, but I just can't help it.

TBH it just feels like she (and the communities that shes a part of) are pushing this 50s Leave it to Beaver fantasy that is absolutely tempting to many that have grown up with a rise of social media insanity (highlight reels), economic stress, and what seems like never ending wars and political strife. It'd be nice to have such a formulaic "Well just do this, believe in this, behave this way, and marry this type of man and you'll never feel stressed or worried about life again!" But it's just that- a fantasy. Being a SAHW is fine and tbh I'd love to, but women also have so many more opportunities now if they don't want to do that- we can vote, there's more educational choices for us, we can have credit cards of our own- our husbands don't have to control our finances, divorces are easier to get (where women used to have to stay in abusive situations without a choice) we can serve in combat roles if thats your flavor. We can really do whatever we want, but that's a BAD thing in her eyes and in the eyes of those she's playing to. Society isn't decaying like she states and her beliefs aren't solving any problems. 

I'd love a nap too because life is heckin' hard, but I also love being challenged by my job and its complexity. It'd be nice if I never had to work again, but damn I'd be bored. 

So yeah- I think she's just selling a fantasy and her followers are just enamored by the belief that life can be so easy if you just do x, x, and x because look at her! She's doing that and her life is so perfect!

(and again- forever apologizing for my word jumbles)

 

[NewMexicoSunrise]

I definitely agree about her selling a fantasy life and also being backed by redpillers, etc. I think another component too, is that I think a lot of folks know her through YouTube, but haven’t dug as deep to find her Twitter or have seen her now deleted Reddit. They know the surface Mrs. Midwest, who sells that she “supports all women.” I think the way she says some of the things she does on YouTube, she says with a smile and is really good  at manipulating people. I think it’s easier to see how gross she is on Twitter bc it’s just words with her stupid tulip emoji, and it comes across as exactly how it is- passive aggressive, a little insane, misogynist AF, and self serving/ arrogant. I think a lot of folks haven’t dug that deep, and unfortunately they likely won’t. 

[thoughtful]

3 hours ago, savannahhmarie said:

Was it really that great in the 40s-50s when women were not expected to work?

It was non-existent, so don't worry about whether it was great. ? 

In the 1940s, women in countries involved in WWII were in the factories, workforce and the armed services. From 1946 through the early 1950s, the combination of the post-war baby boom and some push to go back home and give the jobs to returning soldiers led to a blip on the radar during which more US women probably were housewives then in the decades before or since, but it didn't last long. Women who were not wealthy have always worked.

The family business that supported my father's side of the family was founded by my grandmother. My other grandmother was the sole support of her family because her husband was too ill to work. Both of them were born around 1900.

My mother worked when she was a young woman, and again after we kids were grown. When she told my father she wanted to stay home while their kids were young, he was terrified that they would go broke - he would have preferred that she worked. Among my aunts and my friends' moms, some worked, some were SAHMs.

I was born in the 1950s, and was raised, as were both my male and female cousins and most of my friends, with the expectation that we would work for pay (or, better yet, have our own business) as adults. I don't remember any implication that the girls were off the hook for getting educated and getting work, in hopes that we'd marry a man who would want to support us. The two cousins who eventually took over my grandmother's business were a brother and sister, and all of my cousins, of both sexes, are either still working or recently retired.

I certainly don't think there is a biological basis for women wanting to be provided for. I think that wanting to be busy, work hard, and handle responsibility (or, on the flip side, be pampered, relieved of worries, or even lazy) is more a matter of personality than sex or gender. I've known both men and women at either extreme.

[AmericanRose]

4 hours ago, savannahhmarie said:

One thing I don't understand is how does she have SO much support? Even Mr. Atheist said he got more resistance than usual for his analysis, and well, you know what happened to Jaclyn Glenn. I don't get it. I thought it was almost 2020 when people no longer think that way. It's so confusing and makes me question everything I thought was right. Perhaps the trend is changing? Also, what do you guys think of that video she shared on Twitter, on the parody of housewives by BBC that supposedly backfired? As a full time female worker, I watch that I can't help but agree I need a nap too. And yes, wouldn't it be nice if someone just took care of all of our bills. But is it a gender thing or just an adult thing? Was it really that great in the 40s-50s when women were not expected to work? I've lived the housewife life before, but the guy was broke and I was pinching pennies in his mother's house, so I can't say I really have experienced the lifestyle Mrs. Midwest and School of Affluence preach for. Because even in all her thrift, Mrs. Midwest has it made by already having their own house (even before YouTube). What do you guys think about all Yogioabs always says, that women were meant to be provided for? Is there a natural/biological basis for that? I want to hear the opinion of intelligent people, not misguided folk like Mrs. Midwest and Yogioabs. Sorry, it's just that it's so hard to be hard-working, and then for it to turn out it was the wrong thing to begin with?! This is why I need to stop listening to them, but I just can't help it.

I think she has so much support because she's a seemingly pleasant, attractive woman talking about "traditional femininity". Not many are bothering to look beyond her Youtube channel.

My paternal grandmother worked in an office until retirement, in addition to being a farmer's wife and raising 2 kids. She was proud of the money she earned, and was baffled when my mom decided to be a SAHM (I was 14 at the time). I don't think there's an inherent trait in women that requires them to need to be 'provided for'.

Personally, I would be wary of having a man 'take care' of me... usually when someone is providing for you, they expect something in return.

[smittykins]

My grandmother contracted polio at age 19 while pregnant with my mother and separated from her husband, and spent time in an iron lung(Mom lived with a foster family who wanted very much to adopt her, but Grandma refused).  When she was well enough to come home, she raised Mom and her older sister as a single parent with the help of her own mother, and worked as an insurance agent, with an office in her home for many years.

[ViolaSebastian]

I think part of the issue with why people believe and like Caitlin is that she's traditionally attractive. The "halo effect" is a well-known psychological phenomenon and I think it's at play here. If a less attractive, older woman was making these videos, I doubt they'd be as popular as they are. It also hasn't escaped my notice that Caitlin is the prototypical blonde-haired, blue-eyed beauty, and I would not be surprised if there's an element of white supremacy and ethnocentricity running through her fan base. She's the fantasy that these Red Pillers have--traditional, stay-at-home, hyperfeminine, thin, virginal prior to her marriage, attractive, and smart enough to espouse her views in an intelligent, semi-articulate, but not too intelligent to be threatening, manner. 

 

https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-the-halo-effect-2795906

 

 

[ViolaSebastian]

19 hours ago, savannahhmarie said:

 Also, what do you guys think of that video she shared on Twitter, on the parody of housewives by BBC that supposedly backfired? 

I think one of the dirty little secrets of feminism is that we have, in actuality, doubled our workload in many ways. Despite going to work in larger numbers, women still do a significantly higher amount of household chores, childcare, and emotional labor. It hasn't balanced out yet. 

I honestly think that video was in poor taste, to a certain extent. It's not a joke that we're faced with a double burden and it's not a joke that women are supposedly wishing that they were back in the kitchen, pregnant and barefoot. We fought hard for the right to be ourselves, even if we're exhausted while we're doing it. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

50 minutes ago, ViolaSebastian said:

I think one of the dirty little secrets of feminism is that we have, in actuality, doubled our workload in many ways. Despite going to work in larger numbers, women still do a significantly higher amount of household chores, childcare, and emotional labor. It hasn't balanced out yet. 

I honestly think that video was in poor taste, to a certain extent. It's not a joke that we're faced with a double burden and it's not a joke that women are supposedly wishing that they were back in the kitchen, pregnant and barefoot. We fought hard for the right to be ourselves, even if we're exhausted while we're doing it. 

I think that if you look at all the divorces where the wife filed, and then surveyed women as to why they filed, you would see a lot of women mentioning unequal workload. I’m not saying it’s why all women file. But I think it’s a big reason for a lot of women. Why would you bother staying married if being divorced is actually easier? You have one less person to cook for, cleanup after, and do laundry for. Sorry but I can’t be attracted to a mate that didn’t pull his weight.

Edited October 31, 2019 by JermajestyDuggar

[ViolaSebastian]

33 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I think that if you look at all the divorces where the wife filed, and then surveyed women as to why they filed, you would see a lot of women mentioning unequal workload. I’m not saying it’s why all women file. But I think it’s a big reason for a lot of women. Why would you bother staying married if being divorced is actually easier? You have one less person to cook for, cleanup after, and do laundry for. Sorry but I can’t be attracted to a mate that didn’t pull his weight.

And the numbers, despite what men say, shows this. Women tend to live shorter lives if they're married and longer ones if they're single. The inverse is true for men.

Despite culture beating us over the head with how great it is to be married and how much women want marriage, statistically we're happier when we're single. (Required caveat that this is statistical data and leaves plenty of room for women to be in very happy satisfying marriages). But still, men get remarried after a divorce or bereavement at twice the rate women do.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/living-single/201701/is-it-true-single-women-and-married-men-do-best

[AuntCloud]

21 hours ago, savannahhmarie said:

One thing I don't understand is how does she have SO much support? Even Mr. Atheist said he got more resistance than usual for his analysis, and well, you know what happened to Jaclyn Glenn. I don't get it. I thought it was almost 2020 when people no longer think that way. It's so confusing and makes me question everything I thought was right. Perhaps the trend is changing? Also, what do you guys think of that video she shared on Twitter, on the parody of housewives by BBC that supposedly backfired? As a full time female worker, I watch that I can't help but agree I need a nap too. And yes, wouldn't it be nice if someone just took care of all of our bills. But is it a gender thing or just an adult thing? Was it really that great in the 40s-50s when women were not expected to work? I've lived the housewife life before, but the guy was broke and I was pinching pennies in his mother's house, so I can't say I really have experienced the lifestyle Mrs. Midwest and School of Affluence preach for. Because even in all her thrift, Mrs. Midwest has it made by already having their own house (even before YouTube). What do you guys think about all Yogioabs always says, that women were meant to be provided for? Is there a natural/biological basis for that? I want to hear the opinion of intelligent people, not misguided folk like Mrs. Midwest and Yogioabs. Sorry, it's just that it's so hard to be hard-working, and then for it to turn out it was the wrong thing to begin with?! This is why I need to stop listening to them, but I just can't help it.

The only people who are meant to be taken care of and provided for are: children, anyone who is too frail to fully support themselves due to age, illness or disability, and (temporarily) women who are tied down with pregnancy or taking care of young children. Women can enter SAHMdom with their eyes wide open and a strong and wide safety net in case life happens, and the option of changing their minds.  

When you position yourself as someone who needs to be provided for, you give up power and control. (I know, lots of SAHMs are in terrific, egalitarian relationships). Your hard work is building up your capital - financial, social and personal. Is it easy? abso friggin lutely not. It's Halloween, the weather is vile and all I want to do is go home and take a nap before the trick-or-treaters hit us. Instead I'm at work, doing stuff that needs to be done as this is the last day of the month. It's hard, but doing the easy thing does not always equal doing the right thing. Avoiding work is like going to bed with a sink full of dishes: you're tired and you couldn't be arsed but this will catch up with you eventually. 

Also, if you're looking for a role model, please find some strong, smart, independent women to look up to. I wouldn't ask the Red Pill crowd for advice on changing my windshield wipers, let alone general life advice.

Before I forget: the fake 40's-50's nostalgia (it's fake because both my grandmothers worked through those decades) is just magical thinking. Presto, bills are paid, mortgage is covered, you take a nap. Life doesn't work this way, sadly, but people are still trying to sell you the illusion that it does. 

Edited October 31, 2019 by AuntCloud