Dillards 77: Sex Advice from Smoochie Sweetie Sweet Muffin

[fellowunfundie]

6 hours ago, OhNoNike said:

Ehh, I disagree somewhat on this.  I think they definitely wanted children but even with Michelle out of her fertility range, they’re most likely still sexually active.  Remember how JB was all over her while playing mini golf?  I’ve always been of the opinion they believed sex was “meant to happen because god made it feel good”. I agree they wanted children but don’t think that’s the only reason. 

@DarkAnts is correct here. No matter how JB and M ended up dressing it for TLC, the schedule mentioned is their ATI/IBLP roots. There are blogs posts on RecoveringGrace that get into Gothard's sex rules for anyone interested.

I'm personally like "lol ok" to Jill's post and wouldn't share anything like it myself, but also it is a big step away from her roots for her, and for that I'm willing to give her a pass. 

[Someone Out There]

Hmm, when I think skittles and sex, I think of the first ad here (NSFW): http://omnipotentpoobah.com/2011/07/23/skittles-an-orgasmically-fruity-treat/

It also adds to the 'Taste the rainbow'...

[TatiFish9]

7 hours ago, luv2laugh said:

I’ve noticed some people like Jessa because...

1. People forget she’s a dangerous fundie and the golden child of JB & M (Ben would let her wear pants like BFF Jinger but she wants to stay on JB & M’s good side). She follows the Duggar PR rules perfectly. 

2. She “plays up” being a relatable, young mom.

3. She’s always pregnant so she can relate to your bad morning sickness. 

4. Halo effect. She’s very conventionally attractive. 

Although Jana isn’t a mom, they film her always helping someone with their wedding. She’s like a combination of a loyal BFF and a walking Pinterest board. Additionally, Jana barely says anything which is why people forget she’s fundie. 

While Jill is also a Mom, she hasn’t been pregnant in a long time so pregnant Christians can’t relate to her. Also, she’s always awkwardly praising Derick because everyone, rightfully so, hates him.  Jessa takes her job as the mouthpiece for the Duggar Family seriously, which means making people forget they are fundie and think they’re the Kardashians for Christians.

All good points. Jessa pretends to not be bothered, all the while living an entire lifestyle where she has barely changed a thing from her parents except adding health foods to her family's diet. And we all know that is mostly Ben's doing anyhow. 

Jana is scarily fundie. I agree, she hardly talked and she had no online presence for so long. It was difficult for people to see her lifestyle and beliefs back then.

Jill is crazy and awkward. But she has always been ambitious even within the confines of fundieville. She will find her online niche. Promoting healthy sex lives for christian wives may be it. We should have seen this moment coming when she sucked the cake off of Derick's finger at their reception. lol 

This sex stuff may be hot topic for awhile, but I am decidedly interested in how far she will go in broadening her mind towards change. If she works outside the home, man! I don't see her doing this anytime soon, because she would most likely have to send her kids to daycare/school and she is still on that fundiewife kick, Kama sutra and all. But if she could finish out her career that would be phenomenal. Duggars kidults have primarily been trapped under their parent's control  and ideals because they have not had their own careers/income. Maybe that's why Jessa is still deep in, now that I think of it.

[karen77]

12 hours ago, Flossie said:

Dare I ask what "fun" furniture is, what a bad ass hotel room looks like, or what I could expect to find at Lover's Package?

I swear, I'm not completely clueless about sex.  I've been around, done a few things, heard about things, went into a sex shop once, and even handled a rubber dildo (the woman who owned it swore she'd never used it; it was a gag gift from her husband).  So I'm guessing you bought a swing, the hotel room had a heart shaped bed that vibrated (vibrating beds were such fun to find when I was traveling with my father, we kids would pour quarters in them like water), and Lover's Package is advertised with a close up of a well endowed male stuffed into a tiny little pouchy thing?

Ok... the fun furniture... 

 

"Fun" Furniture

 

A bad ass room, to me is just a super high end hotel or a unique hotel, no vibrating beds necessary! 

 

Lover package is a sex store in our area, not sure how far they roam

 

www.loverspackage.com

 

[Palimpsest]

1 hour ago, fellowunfundie said:

@DarkAnts is correct here. No matter how JB and M ended up dressing it for TLC, the schedule mentioned is their ATI/IBLP roots. There are blogs posts on RecoveringGrace that get into Gothard's sex rules for anyone interested.

Yes, Gothard's rules for sex are a joy to read because of the cherry picking of Bible texts to confirm his bias.  Here's the link to the first part:  http://www.recoveringgrace.org/2011/12/the-sexual-rules-of-mr-gothard/

1 hour ago, fellowunfundie said:

I'm personally like "lol ok" to Jill's post and wouldn't share anything like it myself, but also it is a big step away from her roots for her, and for that I'm willing to give her a pass. 

Me too.  She's talking about pretty tame stuff really.  I'm slightly surprised by the copy of the Kamasutra but perhaps she doesn't know it is Hindu.  And really it is TMI.  But she apparently thinks she's an expert on sex as well as a mentor and model wife.

With the fluttering in the FJ dovecote Jill's post caused -- I was surprised she hadn't recommended  all married couples  sign up for a Christian Domination site at the very least!  

No, my friends who find skittles incredibly kinky, please don't google that.   It will shock your socks off.   I once accidentally typed Christian domination instead of denomination and lots of Christian Patriarchal BDSM sites popped up.  It even shocked me.  And we know Spanky Sproul got his ideas somewhere.

 

 

Edited June 26, 2019 by Palimpsest

[Screamapillar]

Wondering what happens when you look up Jill's version of the Kamasutra on Amazon and also visit the Dating Diva's site?

The next day Amazon offers you this recommendation: "Cosmic Passions: An Alien Romance Collection."

I've always thought the Duggars were aliens!

 

 

Edited June 26, 2019 by Screamapillar

[Georgiana]

While I don't mind Jill's sex posts, she is eventually going to have to address the elephant she has now brought into the room: contraception/family planning.  With all her "you should have sex with your husband 3-4 times a week at LEAST", she's eventually going to have to discuss how to make her advice work in cases where a pregnancy is ill-advised or dangerous.  She's set herself up as a Christian marriage/sex expert, this is a very real issue many Christian families struggle with, and it's the issue her family is most known for.  Eventually, someone will ask.  Eventually, she will have to address it.

Which means she's going to have two options: 

Toe the party line and advocate "leaving it up to Jesus", effectively advocating that women put their very lives at risk and ignore the advice of medical professionals just to please their husbands or

Be the first Duggar to publicly endorse that family planning may be permissible to God under certain circumstances.

So we're either about to be very, very proud of Sweetie Sweet Muffin or we are about to reach a new low with her.   Make sure your seat belts are securely fastened, because I have to idea where this roller coaster is going but it's sure to be a wild ride.  

[ViolaSebastian]

1 hour ago, Palimpsest said:

No, my friends who find skittles incredibly kinky, please don't google that.   It will shock your socks off.   I once accidentally typed Christian domination instead of denomination and lots of Christian Patriarchal BDSM sites popped up.  It even shocked me.  And we know Spanky Sproul got his ideas somewhere.

Googled that IMMEDIATELY. Worth it! 

https://www.gotquestions.org/Bible-BDSM.html

Quote

What does the Bible say about BDSM? In regards to the BDSM subculture, the need to dominate and/or be dominated in a relationship, whether sexual or non-sexual, may reveal a psyche in need of being redeemed by God through Jesus Christ.

Spoiler

 

[NakedKnees]

To be clear, I'm not grossed out by Jill's post or trying to shame her in any way. I definitely overshare more than she did in that post on a regular basis, and most peoples' reaction is laughter. I love talking about sex and I'm happy she seems to like it too.

At the same time, I don't think this is philosophically very different from JB and Michelle's humping on the golf course, the makeout photo trend of late 2014, Josie and Kelton's recent wedding butt grabs, and the content of Intended for Pleasure by Ed Wheat- which by all accounts is fairly comprehensive and committed to womens' pleasure more than we're inclined to think. In the fundie world, openly enjoying sex has often been okay for married, Christian, straight people. Has having a sex life been personally liberating for Jill compared with the strictness of her upbringing? Maybe, and that would be great if so. But posting sexy blogs and photos on Instagram does not a healthy sex life make, so I honestly think the jury is still out there. It could all just be show or wishful thinking.

I'll view this as a significant step forward when Jill expresses anything to indicate that unmarried folk shouldn't be ashamed of their natural desires, nor suppress them if the results of that suppression are unhealthy. It would be a significant thing for her to believe this type of sexual enjoyment extends to unmarried couples, or even gay couples (married or otherwise). Until then, this really doesn't look like a significant departure. Credit where credit is due: her blog post indicated awareness of sexual abuse and violence in marriages and how that justifies separation. To me, that's very big to see from a Duggar.

This also probably belongs in the "unpopular opinions" section, but I do think it's par for the course on FJ (at least on Duggar boards, where I admittedly spend much of my time) for there to be some "ew" posts every time talk about sex gets more explicit than PG-13. And that's okay- I'm not here to form a bastion of sex-positivity, and I get it that different people have different limits for a variety of reasons. Overall, I think we're respectful and conversation generally veers in the "get it, girl" and "do no harm" directions.

All of that said- I will say "ew" to anyone consuming Skittles for any reason because I think they taste gross, sexually or otherwise ?

[TatiFish9]

Kama sutra is very different from what Jim Bob and Michelle shill. There is a difference between being joyfully available for your spouse and taunting your poor sexually repressed kidults into covenant marriages through their envy of your sex life and eroticism.

While I believe many fundie to conservatives have active sex lives where they cling to "the marriage bed is to be undefiled" , this is not something that is promoted openly nor via some other religion's (especially a non Abrahamic religion) text book, No way. No how. God forbid her post tempts innocent fundie singles to sin.?

Again, I have no idea what is going on with Jill. I just hope it is something good. Seems like it could be.

[Palimpsest]

30 minutes ago, ViolaSebastian said:

Googled that IMMEDIATELY. Worth it! 

It is quite possible the sites I stumbled on a few years ago have now gone underground.  One of them was called something like Christian Domestic Discipline and Submission.   Again, be careful googling because this stuff is NSFW!  But the truly Godly wives love it doncha know.

 

 

 

[HarryPotterFan]

15 hours ago, ViolaSebastian said:

So one question we haven't asked is, what does the winner win for being the best at picking marshmallows out a cleavage and flinging panties like rubber bands?

Pride? Rubbing it in your spouse’s face? Does Jill have to try to lose to save Derdick’s ego?

15 hours ago, luv2laugh said:

 

@Bazinga I believe #2. Certain things I have observed along with their comments at the conference with David & Pris make me believe they’re feuding with Derick. They probably pray every night for her leader Derick and believe he’s encouraging Jill to act more like a heathen than a frumper fundie.

What did they say?

13 hours ago, Exposedknees said:

It gives me great joy to think that JB with his myopic view of the world, may not have even heard of the Kama Sutra before today.....Imagining him having to Google it just makes me laugh hysterically. ? First the description of the book....then the pictures of graphic sculptures on the Indian temple, then the descriptions, diagrams  and names of positions.... 

I hope so much, that he had to look it up?

 

I remember Jana being in charge of the internet because boys/men can’t be trusted. Did he have Jana look it up and report back? Poor Jana.

 

[ViolaSebastian]

25 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

Christian Domestic Discipline and Submission.   

Woo-boy, that google search did it. There are so many big, red flags that I could be at a Communist parade. 

NSFW. I cannot:

Spoiler

My assumption is strict privacy, but I interacted with a young lady who grew up in a CDD home where the family was completely open about it. This was a practice supported by their extended family and their church. Both she and her mother were openly disciplined (even in the nude). The family of four consisted of father, mother, daughter (whom I’m referring to), and younger brother.

The younger brother who eventually came of age was over time permitted to spank his older sister and eventually his mother. According to her, her younger brother was allowed to observe her spankings when he was 11, and she was 13, and then he was allowed to spank her when he was 13, and she was 15. He began to observe his mother’s spankings at about 15 and began to spank her at the age of 16. I was forwarded an email by the older sister which got from her pastor of what this coming of age process looked like for her younger brother:

Spoiler

Now look, live your life like you want and if you want to be in a power exchange relationship, you get on with your bad self and do you. But openly physically disciplining your daughter in the nude? Letting your son openly discipline your daughter AND his mother???

 

 

Edited June 26, 2019 by ViolaSebastian

[Palimpsest]

Honestly, I think Fundies talk about sex endlessly and publicly so I don't think Jill is exceptional.  They probably talk about it more than non-Fundies do.  The evils of sex for the unmarried and the joys of it for the married.  And the married ones do PDAs and grope each other all over the place.  Some of them never seem to let bloody go of each other in public.  Just look at the married Maxwells for the last one. 

Jim Bob is forever making sexual innuendos.  And Steve Maxwell has sex on the brain.  Everything defrauds him and he is always berating women for tempting his honorable wife-loving married self.

[Sullie06]

17 hours ago, Don'tlikekoolaid said:

They went to see the new Toy Story and I heard that Disney made Woody gay, I wonder if they noticed.  I imagine it would be subtle, anyone seen it yet?

I saw it. I did not catch that but I also had both of my children sitting on top of me because my son was scared of the ventriloquist dummies and my daughter has to do whatever my son does 

[finnlassie]

I just came to the conclusion that this past year (or half of one) has been the one where Jill and Derick, or mostly Jill, has realised how fun married life can be. Especially in the bed. It's a bit weird to have her go on about these things publicly, but at the same time I'm just... You go girl? If she's finally found ways to have fun with sex and make it enjoyable, go for it. It just comes off extremely odd regarding her fundie background, but for me these just go in one ear and out the other at this point.

I mean, I have no idea what a good sex life is. I thought I knew, but thinking back I had been groomed and assaulted, it was never fun for me, an underaged girl escaping a violent home, who didn't know what's actually supposed to happen in a relationship and in what order. 10+ years later I'm picking up the pieces that other people broke off of me ever since I started teendom. It might come off odd to a lot of you, but following Jill's current journey has been a healing factor in my own. It's intriguing watching her dance around, taking baby steps, even provoking a little... maybe I'll be able to have that attitude at some point, too?

[Jinder Roles]

Yeah, the only thing surprising is the Kama Sutra.

I wouldn’t view her as sex positive. Her last blog post warned against masturbation, and implied sexuality can only be expressed in relation to your spouse (plus a lot of patriarchal bs)

I think Jill’s post falls into the camp of desires being “righteously fulfilled”. 

She hasn’t gone rogue. She’s just being more direct with a healthy dose of Jill IG awkwardness. 

Edited June 26, 2019 by Jinder Roles

[Georgiana]

15 minutes ago, Jinder Roles said:

Yeah, the only thing surprising is the Kama Sutra.

I wouldn’t view her as sex positive. Her last blog post warned against masturbation, and implied sexuality can only be expressed in relation to your spouse (plus a lot of patriarchal bs)

I think Jill’s post  into the camp of desires being “righteously fulfilled”. 

She hasn’t gone rogue. She’s just being more direct with a healthy dose of Jill IG awkwardness. 

This is a very good point.  While Jill is a fundie woman talking about sex, she is doing so in a way that reinforces the Patriarchal position that sex is a man's domain and about men.  She encourages women to enjoy sex, but she also encourages them to make sex all about their husbands and their husband's pleasure.  She is not encouraging women to own their sexual experience.  She is encouraging them to do what they need to to please their husbands because it is their duty to do so...and hey, as long as you're down there, might as well enjoy it, no?  She encourages women to talk to doctors if they do not enjoy sex, but she does not encourage them to talk to their husbands about doing things differently if they want something the wife does not enjoy or feel comfortable with.  In fact, multiple times she advocates not bothering your husband with your "lady struggles" because he probably won't find that sexy.  If you're not feeling body confident, needing more foreplay, don't like a certain position, prefer to shower in the AM, too tired, etc. you're just supposed to shove that deep down inside and pretend so that you can give your husband what he wants.  

Everything in Jill's advice is very much about sex being a wifely requirement that a wife should enjoy if only because it's more enjoyable for her husband if she does.  The focus is still very much on the man, and there is no attention paid to the woman's sexual needs, desires, or drive.  In fact, the way Jill glosses over them, you would think that women don't HAVE such things!  

So you're right.  It's very much the same Patriarchal drivel and party line that fundies have always spouted about sex.  It's not truly sex positive, and it's still very damaging because of how it dismisses women's needs/desires and treats them as secondary to the man's.  

I also do not see this as a radical departure from how the Duggars have always talked about sex.  JB and M absolutely would have posted one million posts like this if social media was a thing back in their heyday.  

[finnlassie]

They may have not given us kama sutra, but the Duggars have given us something far better...

 

The nudge-nudge and put.

[socalrules]

Eh, I am of the belief the more people brag about how great their sex life is or just have to give unsolicited advice on sex, the more likely they have a crappy sex life. It’s no different than always posting about the best hubby ever because he bought you a chocolate milk. I get everyone wanting to praise Jill for her post but this is a woman who had a ridiculous post about how to be ready for your husband when he comes home from work. Is this Jill embracing her own sexuality or Jill submitting to whatever her husband wants out of their sex life? 

I personally find the post tacky but I would find it tacky no matter who posted it. 

[nolongerIFBx]

20 hours ago, Giraffe said:

There’s nothing wrong with what she posted. My “wtf?!?” is because of how prudish they are/were before marriage. It feels squicky now because they were so “chaste” before marriage. I hope they are finding sexual freedom now, but I also wish some of them would speak out against the purity movement and how damaging it can be and has been to so many people. Yes, some probably have not had any difficulty going from 0-100 in a matter of hours, but I would bet most of them have experienced some significant and lasting damage from it. There’s nothing inherently wrong with how open she’s being now, but to be SO open after sex & sexuality shameful pre-marriage...it comes across as ? rather than something to be commended for.

 

 

 

(bolding mine) I certainly wish people would listen to Elizabeth Smart and realize that she almost stayed with her rapist because she was told that she was a piece of already chewed gum. I think that you can hold to a belief about abstinence before marriage without making it into a god or making people who did not/do not hold to that belief or who were raped feel like that.

https://www.thecut.com/2016/09/elizabeth-smart-is-speaking-out-against-the-mormon-church.html

 

[bella8050]

I had a feeling Jill was going to end up partnering with the Dating Divas (aka inventors of the weird skittles game). That didn't take long. I guess she brought in some traffic to their site yesterday. 

Spoiler

 

They don't seem horrible (though I give them major side eye for the Reclaim Your Marriage program for charging an absurd amount of money and no disclaimer that they're not licenses therapists) It's just the kind of tips and tricks that are a bit...icky to me.They seem very much up Jill's alley though. One of their latest IG posts:

 

Spoiler

@Georgiana such a good point about the topic of family planning. If Jill endorsed it in some way that would be a big deal to me. Whether for medical reasons or to come out and say they have family size in mind and that's ok to have and plan for. I'm not holding my breath, but it would be great. Personally I don't feel "leave it up to God" and family planning are mutually exclusive. I would suspect Derick feels that way too. 

[ViolaSebastian]

Well, I guess she confirmed Derick has a weird, tiny turkey neck. So there's that.

Edited June 26, 2019 by ViolaSebastian

[QuiverFullofBooks]

21 hours ago, HideousGreenShirt said:

Wow. I saw those photos on her IG and had.... The exact same reaction as everybody here. 

I think good for her for being open to new things and also for sharing this with the world, who all know full well she comes from a weird purity-obsessed cult. 

Do I want to know that they're playing sex games and using pina colada massage candles? No. No thank you. But she has my interest in 1) where her blog will be going and 2) what changes we see in the Dillards' lives in the next few years. 

For those curious, here are the least and most (by flames - they all seem tame and ridiculous/pointless) sexy printable minute to win it Dating Diva games. Under a spoiler for those who don't want to use up their lifetime supply of brain bleach. 

  Hide contents

 

How is there anything remotely sexy or fun about the “Bra Battle”? Sounds like doing laundry in Hell.

[Daisy0322]

Sooo...... am I the only one who thought they were going to use the skittles for oral sex when they first saw it? Or am I a dirty heathen? ?

Anyway-

So I saw this on Facebook today and reading it reminded me so much of Jill's blog post I had to share! It's 1955 ‘Good House Wife’s Guide’ Explains How Wives Should Treat Their Husbands

https://www.littlethings.com/1950s-good-housewife-guide/?utm_content=social&utm_source=PurpleClover&utm_medium=Facebook

Seriously I wouldn't want a man who expects all this, take your own damn shoes off. 

Edited June 26, 2019 by Daisy0322