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Georgiana

Dillards 77: Sex Advice from Smoochie Sweetie Sweet Muffin

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QuiverFullofBooks

I think they don’t think logically about the logistics of heaven and just assume God has everything figured out. 

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TeddyBonkers
On 6/11/2019 at 7:55 AM, Ali said:

This is what I believed when my grandpa died of A.L.S. when I was a teenager. I saw him as himself but strong and healthy like he was before the disease took over. I also pictured him playing with my sister who was stillborn just like he used to play with his grandkids before he got sick. There was no logical explanation for it. It was just faith.

I love this. My grandfather was a strong man as well before the lymphoma took him. I wonder if in heaven that people will appear differently to different people? Like I will see my grandfather as a older man, but his school friends will see him as a young man.

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Tired
clueliss
11 hours ago, Johannah said:

Doesn’t Revelations talk about people/souls being in a sleeping, unconscious state after death until after the second coming? I think that is what biblical literalists supposedly believe theologically. So this reuniting, in a better place image is in contradiction to what fundies purport to believe. 

Spiritual Sleep is a belief of Seventh Day Adventists  - not necessarily mainstream Christians (source - my sister who was SDA at one point before becoming Messianic - no clue what she's up to religiously these days)

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Daisy0322
Posted (edited)

So being a fairly religious person I've always believed that heaven was more of a spiritual place where your soul was at peace. I think you can have the company of other souls too. For example be in the company of a child you lost. I do think of it being a different spiritual plane therefore we can't totally grasp the concept though. Like when people talk about new bodies in heaven I think of that as a spiritual body no longer in pain or suffering. As for hell, I'm not sure about it. I think very few people of any end up there. The God I believe in is very forgiving and I like to think most people dispite their mistakes are made to be good and God understands their mistakes in a way we can't because he created them. I don't talk about it much but I was sexually abused from a young age (before I can even Remember) and I've never felt like a part of my own body. I feel like a restless soul living in a body. Which is probably how I came up with this idea. 

Edited by Daisy0322
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theotherelise

Okay, grew up very evangelical... Here are the three scenarios we were taught:

  • Faithful Jews who died before Jesus: Kept in a place called "Abraham's Bosom." I was taught this was basically next to hell, but not *in* hell and that when the second coming occurred, all the people here would ascend to heaven.
  • Faithful Christians who died between Jesus' ministry/resurrection and his second coming: I was taught there would be a "sleep" and then the dead would ascend to heaven at the second coming. This verse is the context. However, because you don't have a reference for time when you are dead, I was taught that it would *feel* like an immediate reunion with Jesus at the second coming, like you would close your eyes in death and then open your eyes to the second coming and thus be reunified with everyone, not just those who preceded you in death. This idea where they go to heaven early and are just hanging out with the other dead people and watch over people on earth was actually portrayed to me as a secular or cultural-christian view of heaven, not a biblical view of heaven. 
  • Christians who are alive at the second coming: they will ascend to heaven along with the other two groups at the second coming. Same verse as above applies.
  • Caveat here, I believe we were basically taught that Elijah and Moses went straight to heaven since neither died. idk, those are weird ones!

As far as the new bodies or existence as souls, there are a few verses people reference when saying that those in heaven receive new, healthy bodies:

  • First, as mentioned above, Elijah and Moses were the only figures in the Bible who never died, but were taken to heaven in chariots of fire. They both appeared at the Transfiguration of Jesus and were in physical, recognizable bodies.
  • 1 Corinthians 15:51-52 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
  • 1 Corinthians 15:42–44 So is it with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable; what is raised is imperishable. It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised in power. It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.
  • (wearing robes implies a body??) Revelation 6:9–11 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne. They cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been.

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kachuu
48 minutes ago, IrishCarrie said:

Wotcha gonna do, eh?

🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️

 

Well I'm going to sit here and cry over your story. Thanks for bringing up all the emotions I've been pushing down. All the feelings right now. 😭

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Wine time!
allthegoodnamesrgone
24 minutes ago, kachuu said:

Well I'm going to sit here and cry over your story. Thanks for bringing up all the emotions I've been pushing down. All the feelings right now. 😭

I'm not crying, you're crying. :crying-blue:

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Four is Enough
14 hours ago, Tim-Tom Biblethumper said:

I've always believed that when you're dead, you're dead.  You are no more.  Just dead.  I've had people close to me (father and friends) pass, and never changed that view.

My Mom died on May 1st, and I'm finding that I desperately need to believe that there is something after this life.  That she's watching me, can hear me,...that I'll see her again.
 

I don't tend to worry too much about what happens. I figure God will sort it out.

But your mother will live on in your memories. You will hear her voice in your ear. You'll catch a breath of her scent. A piece of jewelry will remind you. You'll use a certain turn of phrase and t hink, "she said that!"

She is a part of you; you are a part of her. She's with you.

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libgirl2
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, IrishCarrie said:

Ok, I'm going to tell y'all a little story. For background, I was raised Catholic but am long since lapsed from the church - the abuse scandals were just too much for me. And for the last twenty years I've only had the wooliest sense of there being a God/heaven and have no idea what that might look like. My mantra for life is "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"and that seems to work just fine...

So anyway.

Twelve years ago my sweet, kind mother dropped dead. No ill health or warning signs, just boom: gone. Dad and her were a very close couple so it actually wasn't really that much of a surprise to us when a year later he was diagnosed with cancer of the brain and started declining very rapidly. I absolutely believe his heart was so broken that his body followed.

Shortly afterwards, we were told he had about two months to live. I was lucky enough to be able to give up work and spend every minute of that two months with him, nursing him in his own house as he weakened and eventually became paralysed. I've talked about that time period on here before so I won't dwell on it now.

Anyway, one morning Dad didn't wake up. He was alive but unconscious and when the doctor came, he said this was probably it, the final stage, that Dad would quietly slip away at some point in the next week or so.

The doctor went off about his business and I was alone in the house, sitting beside Dad's bed, just looking at him and stroking his head. And I'll never know how I knew, but suddenly I thought "Holy fuck!! He's going to do it!! He's going to die now!!" In an instant I had climbed up on the bed and cuddled him to me. And I held him and told him it was ok, that we'd all be fine, that he shouldn't worry about us, that it was ok".

And he stopped breathing. 

I held him for a few more minutes. I knew he was dead; his chest was still, there was no breathing sounds and I'd heard the faint rattle of that final "death breath" (once heard, never forgotten - and I'd heard it before with a loved one...). So yeah, there wasn't any doubt in my mind that he was dead. And I knew I should ring my siblings and tell them, start all the tasks that come with a death...except I couldn't, because while I knew Dad was dead,  I kind of also felt he was still there!!!! I could feel him in the room!!!!

Next minute, I got the single biggest fright of my entire life. You know that deep intense smell of a person that you get when you bury your face in their neck? Well, I smelled my mother. As real as if she was standing behind me. 

So I dropped Dad like a hot potato, PARACHUTED up off the bed and turned, expecting to see her! But there was nothing there; just an empty room.

And a few seconds later, when I turned back to him, Dad was gone. Dead; a shell of a body left on the bed.

Here's the thing. I'm not religious, never really have been. I don't know what's ahead of us when we die and it's scary sometimes. But I KNOW, from the absolute depths of my being, that my mother came for my father to take him there. Their love managed to transcend whatever the fuck death is. And I know their love for me is such that they'll both come to meet me when my time comes.

So it's going to be ok. That's what IrishCarrie thinks anyhoo ❤️ 

Love to all of you who are grieving. Today (weirdly enough!) is the 10th anniversary of my Dad's death. My heart is very low and even the absolute belief that I will someday be with him again is little comfort. Wotcha gonna do, eh?

🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️

 

My dad developed brain cancer which was diagnosed about 1 1/2 after we put my mom in a nursing home for dementia. He always cried when he saw her. I am an only child and could only be with him so much but we had always tried to include him  in family get togethers. I would go with him to the home on the weekends to see my mom. 

 As you say, I think it had more to do with a broken heart as he was alone for the first time in 50+ years of marriage. Even the staff told me that. He declined rapidly as well. He was diagnosed in in April and gone in August.

We were with him at the same home, where he was under hospice, when he passed. We chose to keep him there as one we were not able to have him cared for in the home and second, he would be close to my mom. The staff, who all knew him, would wheel him up to sit next to her every day. I had the same feeling. I had seen him only days before and he was in his wheelchair, not very alert but at least up and about. Now he lay in bed, alive but not alive. I had been there the day before but this time my son was with. We sat with him, told him it was okay to go, we would take care of my mom. He had nothing to worry about. He opened his eyes for seconds, then closed them. I thought that is it, he is leaving us, and he did. It is the oddest feeling. At first I felt he was still there but as we waited for the funeral director to come as time passed I felt "him" ebb away. 

Now I tell my mom that he is with her 24/7 and will be there when it is her time. 

 

Edited by libgirl2

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nolongerIFBx
Posted (edited)
On 6/11/2019 at 12:07 PM, nickelodeon said:

I’m curious about what the Duggars believe about “spiritual bodies” too - maybe some of our ex fundamentalist users know? @formergothardite?

I think @theotherelisegave a good explanation of what I was taught (and for the most part believe). 2 Corinthians 5:8 says "to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord." Some seemed to think our souls would go to heaven and then our earthly bodies would be changed into eternal bodies at Jesus' return; others that time was suspended between death and Jesus' return. The Bible does talk about a "great cloud of witnesses" in Hebrews which would seem to indicate that the author thought that there were souls already in heaven that cheer us on in the present. I Thessalonians 4 is often quoted at funerals and there Paul makes it sound more like we all go to heaven together (so time is suspended for the dead):  "we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede [go to heaven before] those who have fallen asleep [dies]. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord." It says that this is written so that we will have hope for our loved ones who have passed.

Personally, I think there's a whole bunch we don't know. Whether that is because we don't need to or because we find more comfort in our own speculation, I don't know. I've know people who say that seances and Ouija boards are fake but we know that a king in the Bible talked with a dead prophet via a medium (1 Samuel 28). While it was against the law (one he wrote and then broke himself, LOL), it wasn't fake. So our loved ones are there, even if we're not supposed to seek to talk with them through a medium (maybe it messes with the timeline, maybe there are things that we just aren't meant to know). I don't pooh pooh anyone who says they have seen or talked to a ghost even though I've heard many fundies say "There's no ghosts except the Holy Ghost." Do ghosts stay because of unfinished business and then pass when it is finished? Do they pass to and from? Who knows? 

I also agree with the poster that said that our loved ones are a part of who we are so they are always with us. 

ETA: Seeing children who have died in heaven  is from 2 Samuel 12 when David's infant dies. He says "I shall go to him, but he will not return to me.”

Edited by nolongerIFBx

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NakedKnees

This is unsatisfying compared to some of the stories/explanations above, but the basic explanation I heard about heaven from my religious friends has two parts. Part one is that we don't know. Part two is that it's perfect, so while we can conjecture all we want, contradictions and those types of things are inherently non-issues.

On another note, I have a friend who has a severe allergy and has resultantly been declared clinically dead more than once. He's very open that it's always the same and he really feels like he remembers: it's just nothingness, but not bad at all. No feelings of any sort. That said, he's come back every time with varying amounts of recovery time. He's also a dedicated atheist, and who knows how our existing perspectives impact this type of thing (I think his atheism came before these experiences, but I'm not sure).

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SassyPants

Since there is no first hand source to prove what happens after death and  until otherwise notified, I’m going to continue to believe that the days after death are much like the days before birth. Anyone remember those days? Me neither.

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Antipatriarch
13 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

Since there is no first hand source to prove what happens after death and  until otherwise notified, I’m going to continue to believe that the days after death are much like the days before birth. Anyone remember those days? Me neither.

I always liked this quote:

Quote

“I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.”
― Mark Twain

 

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mollysmom

Melon, I just want to hug you. I cried reading that. I can't even imagine the emotion involved. I'm so sorry. 

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Angelface

I am so very sorry for your loss Melon; I just don’t have the words to express how sorry I am. 

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Depressed
melon

Thank you ,AngelFace and Molly'smom for your kind words.

My father kept telling me how strong I was,I did not feel strong,at all.I remember how utterly exhausted I felt both mentally,and physically.I was depressed,too.

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SilverBeach
On 6/9/2019 at 7:57 PM, VelociRapture said:

I would assume your daughter did spend a lot of time in your car because you were a single mom.

Correct

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Wine time!
The Mother Dust
Posted (edited)

 

1 hour ago, SassyPants said:

Since there is no first hand source to prove what happens after death and  until otherwise notified, I’m going to continue to believe that the days after death are much like the days before birth. Anyone remember those days? Me neither.

I had always thought this too. I find it comforting, actually. At least (to me) that nothingness before you were born = no angst or trouble or fear. I am ok with that.  An experience I had when I was about 13 solidified that belief for me.  I was visiting my grandma over the summer.  She attended one of those "watercise" classes for seniors at a local gym, and the gym let me swim about in the pool while the class was going on. Afterward we went to the locker room to shower.  Keep in mind, until this moment I had never been unconscious before for any reason other than regular sleep.  So I had no idea wtf was going on.

   I distinctly remember being in the shower stall, looking up at the shower head, starting to get the spray on my body, and then I felt my eyes roll back in my head (which was weird but not painful) and I knew nothing else.  Absolutely nothing. I felt no pain. I felt no sensation of falling. I didn't feel my knees or elbows, ass or head hit the shower walls and floor. I was a tall teen and a bit heavyset, so all 5ft 6 of me went crashing down in the shower, and I felt none of it.  I learned later that the other members of the class in the locker room heard the crash of me falling, and along with my grandma, worked together to drag my unconscious self out of the shower stall and onto the locker room floor. (I also had no awareness/feeling during that.)  I came to, on my back, looking up at a circle of elderly concerned women looking down at me.   Later, I would occasionally tease my grandma about how no one even tried cpr or ran to get anyone, lol.  I think I shocked them all.  


We figured out later it was probably the hot tub I was occasionally jumping into, that made me faint.  
Anyway, that experience has greatly influenced how I think death must be.  I DID thank god though afterward, that I had been wearing my bathing suit in the shower. 😅

Edited by The Mother Dust

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SassyPants
2 hours ago, melon said:

Sassy,that's what my father told me ,too.What you said.

Over 7 years ago,my youngest son and Mr Melon were in an horrific car accident.Another driver was speeding and clipped Mr Melon changing lanes,causing Mr Melon to lose control,the vehicle spun,then flipped 4-5 times.They were not wearing their seat belts.Mr Melon was thrown behind the driver's seat,our son was ejected from the vehicle.He had a closed head injury,irreversible brain damage.He could no longer breathe on his own,he had to have a vent.The doctor's told me his situation,the poor quality of his life.I was in denial ,at first,I did not want to believe what they told me.I agonized over the accident..wondering if they had worn their seatbelts if it would have been different,but most of all,and this still bothers me,I feared that my son's last conscious moments were terrifying.My father was good at comforting words,he said it was probably quick,and once he hit his head,everything went black.He reminded me that we do not remember before our life.

But something happened.One day,they brought in the machine to do an EEG.I watched them.I saw their faces,and I am not a doctor but I knew my son was brain dead.We agreed to remove him from his vent and the organ donation could begin,but by law,had to wait a certain length of time,before that time had lapsed,my son began to over-breathe on his vent,and moved his legs,probably reflexes.The person in charge of his respiratory care had told me the day before she was having to give him more and more oxygen.But because he moved his legs,and began to over-breathe his vent,they could not proceed because it would be considered assault.A few days later,we did remove him from his vent,and the hospital allowed me to go into the operating room(they had to prepare everything for the organ donation).I did not want my son to die,alone.so I was allowed to be with him until he was gone,

You are a wonderful mama, Melon. I am sorry for the loss of your son.

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Bad Wolf
Posted (edited)

Oh Melon, how hard that must have been for you. Hugs coming your way. :hug4:

Edited by Bad Wolf
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grandmadugger

Melon my heart breaks for you. 

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grandmadugger
18 hours ago, StraightOuttaArkansas said:

I really like your hotel analogy. I think I will adopt that as my own. Might also be helpful when my littlest starts asking questions (just until they are old/mature enough to delve deeper into thoughts, which is probably older than they will be the first time they loose a loved one, as was the case with my older son)

My dad had a heart attack when I was 5. I was scared he would die and if he did how would I find him in heaven. He was the one who gave me the hotel analogy because we traveled a lot so I understood what happened when you checked in. He lived for 15 years after that and while my faith has grown I still smile at the analogy. 

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