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Georgiana

Seewalds 41: Christian Hero Ivy Jane

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Giddy
Carm_88

@VineHeart137 Lady Jane Grey is the 9 days Queen. Never crowned and was later beheaded by Queen Mary I. In other words she's a martyr for Protestants. She was a great niece of Henry the 8th and married Lord Guilford Dudley. Both her and her husband were pawns by their parents and the Seymours. Her parents were the Duke and Duchess of Sulfolk and his parents were Duke and Duchess of Northumblerland. They were both only teens when they died, probably 15-17. 

So a martyr...

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HereticHick
3 minutes ago, zcccrv said:

So they named their daughter after a woman who died as a teenager as a result of being born into a family that didn't give a damn about her? I fail to see the beauty in that. 

But "she spent all of those years as a mere pawn of her father." = perfect Fundy Maiden!! 

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JermajestyDuggar
6 minutes ago, HereticHick said:

But "she spent all of those years as a mere pawn of her father." = perfect Fundy Maiden!! 

I totally agree. 

I think Jessa probably just liked the name Jane and needed some sort of Christian hero to use as an excuse to name her child Jane. Her other name choices “Elliott and Henry” are both similar types of names. People have name types. Some other names that are her “type” are Charlotte, Edward, Josephine, Caroline, Eleanor.

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Glasgowghirl

I saw a comment on Jessa's Instagram telling Jessa to put Ivy in pink because she was wearing gender neutral colours. Someone replied that Jessa had said in an earlier post that she was trying to be more minimalist and would have some outfits that she could pass on for both boy's and girl's. She probably will still get a lot of Felicity's old outfits to wear as well.

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JermajestyDuggar
10 minutes ago, Glasgowghirl said:

I saw a comment on Jessa's Instagram telling Jessa to put Ivy in pink because she was wearing gender neutral colours. Someone replied that Jessa had said in an earlier post that she was trying to be more minimalist and would have some outfits that she could pass on for both boy's and girl's. She probably will still get a lot of Felicity's old outfits to wear as well.

It’s smart for fundies to have a good amount of gender neutral clothes. Baby clothing doesn’t get worn out as fast so some of the clothing could last through 5 kids and still look ok.

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Tired
Palimpsest
17 minutes ago, Georgiana said:

While Jane was Protestant,

This is the crux of the matter for the uneducated American Fundies who see her as a martyr.  They also worship Oliver Cromwell because he was really, really, Protestant, not just a mere CoE -- almost Catholic,

Religion is all VERY important to English History.  Let's see how much I can remember from A level history.

It was not so much that Mary Tudor was wildly popular, except with Catholics who were pissed with Henry and even more pissed with Edward VI.  It was that the Dudley family (Jane married Lord Guildford Dudley, a son of the Duke of Northumberland) was unpopular and it looked as though he would influence the throne.   It was a power grab.  And a Protestant power grab.

Mary Tudor was a staunch Catholic, although she had made some pretense at accepting Henry VIII as Head of the Church of England.  Edward supposedly not only gave his blessing for Lady Jane to inherit the crown. he explicitly stated in his will that neither Mary nor Elizabeth could inherit because they were illegitimate (he claimed. 

Which was awkward, because of the 1544 Act of Parliament restoring them to the line of succession.  

So Henry VIII was Catholic in religious practice -- in almost everything except obeying the Pope.  Edward VI was the first Protestant monarch.  His "reforms"  included the abolition of clerical celibacy and the Mass, and doing away with Latin in church services.  He actively persecuted Catholics.

Mary Tudor actively persecuted Protestants.  In children's history books in my youth she was always known as Bloody Mary. 

Elizabeth started out quite conciliatory, but ended up persecuting lots of recusant Catholics and fought mightily against Catholic Spain.  And James I of England and IV of Scotland became monarch of England mainly because he was Protestant.  

Fast forward, past Charles I beheaded because he was stupid and not Protestant enough, and Charles II who was very, very, careful not to touch religion, and was too busy bedding women other than his wife to care, and we get James II.  James was removed from the throne because he was Catholic.  And stupid.  Glorious Revolution.  And we had the Jacobite risings for years.   Bonnie Prince Charlie and all that.

William and (James II's Protest daughter) Mary, who promised to be very Protestant but weren't good at making babies.  And then her sister Anne, who was fecund but died without living issue.  When Anne died they had to scuffle around to find Protestants to inherit because of the the Act of Settlement of 1701.  And so Parliament finally dug up some Protestant Germans with practically no royal or English pedigree at all.  The ones who are now the House of Windsor. 

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KeshetParparNesicha

They had to have some kind of reasoning behind Ivy. Anything goes with Jane.

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JermajestyDuggar
57 minutes ago, KeshetParparNesicha said:

They had to have some kind of reasoning behind Ivy. Anything goes with Jane.

I believe them when they said they just liked it. Ivy is kind of trendy right now. Like I said in my last post, I think Jessa just liked Jane too. Fundies always feel like they have to give some sort of great Christian meaning behind the baby names they choose. We see it in so many fundie families. I wish more of them would just admit they liked the name and that’s it. There’s nothing wrong with just liking the sound of a name. But fundies are so “extra” that they have to come up with some. Amazing Christian tie in. 

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nickelodeon

Men become “Christian heroes” by preaching, writing, translating, legislating, etc.... Women become “Christian heroes” by getting murdered.

Sorry, Ivy and Felicity!

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justmy2cents
Posted (edited)

So the boys got Christian hero surnames in their names while Ivy got the first name and not Gray. Wionder if it becomes a trend.

Edited by justmy2cents

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Glasgowghirl
2 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

It’s smart for fundies to have a good amount of gender neutral clothes. Baby clothing doesn’t get worn out as fast so some of the clothing could last through 5 kids and still look ok.

Definitely, Jessa probably isn't into some of the over the top frilly outfits or bright pink to emphasise she is a girl, not her style. 

 

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Wine time!
BlondeIdol
Posted (edited)

I really think they just liked the name Ivy and the name Jane and choose a historical protestant Jane to reference at almost random. Like they wrote Jane Gray and others on a slip of paper and pulled Lady Jane out of a hat. 

Edited by BlondeIdol

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Kayleigh83

I was very interested to hear why they had chosen a name Jane! I’ve been kind of a Tudor history nerd for a long time so it crossed my mind, but it seems so far back in time and obscure that I didn’t really think that’s what it would be. And like others have said they might have just liked the name Jane and then been really reaching to find a Christian hero who also had that name to back it up.

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twoandthrough
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I totally agree. 

I think Jessa probably just liked the name Jane and needed some sort of Christian hero to use as an excuse to name her child Jane. Her other name choices “Elliott and Henry” are both similar types of names. People have name types. Some other names that are her “type” are Charlotte, Edward, Josephine, Caroline, Eleanor.

I swear to all that is holy, if she uses Josephine, I will scream and shout and throw a major adult tantrum. 

 

ETA: she likely won't since she has a sister named Josie. Phew. 

Edited by twoandthrough

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justmy2cents
22 minutes ago, Glasgowghirl said:

Definitely, Jessa probably isn't into some of the over the top frilly outfits or bright pink to emphasise she is a girl, not her style. 

 

Except in the video she said she was really looking forward to the pink, the bows, the lace, all the girly stuff. 

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JermajestyDuggar
2 minutes ago, twoandthrough said:

I swear to all that is holy, if she uses Josephine, I will scream and shout and throw a major adult tantrum. 

She probably won’t since it’s close to Joseph and Josie is often short for Josephine. But I wouldn’t be surprised if she liked the name. 

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BachelorToTheRapture
5 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

She probably won’t since it’s close to Joseph and Josie is often short for Josephine. But I wouldn’t be surprised if she liked the name. 

Close hasn't stopped the duggars in the past!

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VineHeart137
15 minutes ago, twoandthrough said:

I swear to all that is holy, if she uses Josephine, I will scream and shout and throw a major adult tantrum. 

 

ETA: she likely won't since she has a sister named Josie. Phew. 

She also has two sisters named Joy-Anna and Johannah. Might not stop her!

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louisa05
3 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

It’s smart for fundies to have a good amount of gender neutral clothes. Baby clothing doesn’t get worn out as fast so some of the clothing could last through 5 kids and still look ok.

If you live somewhere with four seasons, this doesn't always work. 

I only say this because my friend (not QF) has seven kids. 1-5 were born in June, August and May (four were twins). Then number 6 came along in early February. All her basic and relatively gender neutral newborn clothes were entirely the wrong season. All of her baby clothes were basically the wrong season for him. She had to buy a lot. 

And number 7 was born in May. 

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nst

is the video on you tube yet because i can't see it and i won't click bait for them. lol 

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Nervous
AliceInFundyland

English monarchy is so complicated. I wonder how much Ben and Jessa understand about the history of the world and the variety of things that landed Lady Jane on the throne for her brief reign.

I tend to think of all the couples, these two could get their kids homeschooled decently to maybe a middle schoolish level. Their own stupid biases will stop there. Which is a shame. They might pop out some inquisitive tykes with their character traits.

 

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JermajestyDuggar
19 minutes ago, louisa05 said:

If you live somewhere with four seasons, this doesn't always work. 

I only say this because my friend (not QF) has seven kids. 1-5 were born in June, August and May (four were twins). Then number 6 came along in early February. All her basic and relatively gender neutral newborn clothes were entirely the wrong season. All of her baby clothes were basically the wrong season for him. She had to buy a lot. 

And number 7 was born in May. 

I agree with some clothing but not others. A lot of onesies and sleepers can be worn year round. 

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feministxtian
13 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I agree with some clothing but not others. A lot of onesies and sleepers can be worn year round. 

depends on where you live. Here in LV, winters are chilly/cold. Summers are hotter than fuck. So, babies would be more bundled up in the winter and on the edge of nekkid in the summer. When #2 son was born at the end of June in BFE Indiana, our house didn't have a/c (yeah, anyway...) so boychild pretty much wore a diaper the whole summer. Problem was, when it got cold, he was utterly opposed to warm clothing...or clothing of any type besides the diaper. Ever fight a 15lb baby over clothes? I was sweating my ass off by the time I wrestled him into clothes. 

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