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Seewalds 41: Christian Hero Ivy Jane


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4 hours ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

#2 was a scheduled C/section, my ob figured if I couldn't push an 8 lb baby out, I wasn't going to be able to push 9+ lb baby out. I was OK with that, it made things easier for dealing with #1 ds he was with gma & gpa being spoiled and having a good time, while I was having little sister. Though I had gone into labor when I went to check in for my c/section. Since I was laboring they gave me the option of laboring or the c/section, I was like um ok then my doctor came in and reminded me of the cluster fuck of my 1st birth and I was like, yep lets go. I loved my OB he knew what he was doing, and he didn't sugar coat anything, plus he was funny as hell.  The difference between #1 and #2 I looked good in the photos after #2 was born, AND I was well rested, and chasing after #1 10 days later with out any problems. 

DS was born at 36 weeks weighing 8 lbs (no they didn't miscalculate my due date) DD was born at 38 weeks 3 days and weighed 9 lbs 2 oz. 

Big babies here too, though not as big as yours. My son was 9lbs 9oz at 40wks and my daughter was 8lbs 10oz at 39 wks. I don't know what I would have done with little babies, my kids were hearty. :56247958035f1_32(18):

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Re noise during labour. It’s a coping mechanism. I don’t know that I’ve ever heard screaming any time I was in hospital giving birth (that sounds like fear to me and that’s understandable). But it’s enormously helpful to moan and moo like a cow during transition when things get really tough. I read this tip in an Ina May Gaskin book. I promise you it works. Try it! 

I feel like a lot of the horror people seem to have re home birth is a cultural thing. It seems to me that it’s an unusual thing in the US. In Europe there is a shift away from the medicalising of childbirth and home birth is very acceptable for low risk mothers. (I wonder would Jessa’s haemorrhage on birth 1 have ruled her out for subsequent home births in most European countries under the public system. Probably.)

But even giving birth in a hospital in Europe is quite different. It’s generally midwife led unless there is a complication or you need an epidural. I never interacted with any doctors during any of my four births. Nobody wears caps and gowns and masks. There is no nursery, you take care of your own baby during your stay. And you generally go home same day or next. 

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1st birth induced with epi day before due date...9lbs 1oz..post partum hemorrhage 4 hrs after birth. 

2nd birth induced on delivery date...no epidural...11lbs. 5oz. Post partum hemorrhage immediately after birth. 

3rd birth induced 1 week before due date..with epidural 9lbs. 9oz. Dr. Told me she saw the flow starting to become heavy and immediately was able to clamp and stop it. She was also aware of my history of large babies, so she chose to induce a week early.

My biggest fear going not number 3 was hemorrhaging. The first 2 were traumatic and honestly looked like a horrid crime scene. No way would I have attempted a home birth. I think it’s completely negligent to do so.. 

Added: with my 2nd non epidural natural birth...I never screamed, but did Moan a lot, I felt like screaming would have made me lose control  of the situation. 

 

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1 hour ago, Irishy said:

I feel like a lot of the horror people seem to have re home birth is a cultural thing. It seems to me that it’s an unusual thing in the US. In Europe there is a shift away from the medicalising of childbirth and home birth is very acceptable for low risk mothers. (I wonder would Jessa’s haemorrhage on birth 1 have ruled her out for subsequent home births in most European countries under the public system. Probably.)

But even giving birth in a hospital in Europe is quite different. It’s generally midwife led unless there is a complication or you need an epidural. I never interacted with any doctors during any of my four births. Nobody wears caps and gowns and masks. There is no nursery, you take care of your own baby during your stay. And you generally go home same day or next. 

I don't personally have an issue with people having a home birth, it is the lack of prenatal care that seems to surround home births in certain areas that I find concerning, We have a good friend that had 2 successful home births, attended by a CNM and she did al the appropriate prenatal testing. She had a great birth both time and both she and the babies were healthy. I would have loved that had my medical history been different. 

 My oldest was born in Italy at an Italian hospital my younger two were born in two different areas in the US. Really there was nothing different done for the births, except in Italy the norm should have been to be released from the hospital earlier. Due to complications after the birth I had to stay an extra 2 days to make sure I was stable. With my other two births I basically had to "get permission" to leave earlier than the norm but I went home between 15 and 24 hours of them being born. With my first I had a Dr./ midwife team, though I delivered with the Dr. With my younger two I just had a Dr that specialized in higher risk births.  Other than that everything was pretty similar. No caps, gowns or masks (those were only used for C-sections and any of the hospitals I have been to) and no nursery. 

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1 hour ago, nvmbr02 said:

I don't personally have an issue with people having a home birth, it is the lack of prenatal care that seems to surround home births in certain areas that I find concerning, We have a good friend that had 2 successful home births, attended by a CNM and she did al the appropriate prenatal testing. She had a great birth both time and both she and the babies were healthy. I would have loved that had my medical history been different. 

 My oldest was born in Italy at an Italian hospital my younger two were born in two different areas in the US. Really there was nothing different done for the births, except in Italy the norm should have been to be released from the hospital earlier. Due to complications after the birth I had to stay an extra 2 days to make sure I was stable. With my other two births I basically had to "get permission" to leave earlier than the norm but I went home between 15 and 24 hours of them being born. With my first I had a Dr./ midwife team, though I delivered with the Dr. With my younger two I just had a Dr that specialized in higher risk births.  Other than that everything was pretty similar. No caps, gowns or masks (those were only used for C-sections and any of the hospitals I have been to) and no nursery. 

Yes I’m really generalising when I say Europe. I suppose I mean Ireland and UK. Netherlands too, but I cannot speak for every European country.

I think the lack of pre natal care thing comes from the fact that these so-called midwives are lone operators and not attached to a hospital scheme or part of a community midwife program. I guess these things cannot exist in the US without public health. 

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My issue with Jessa's home-births stem from the fact she's been transferred to the hospital twice now. If I'm not mistaken, the birth of Henry is the only successful home birth a Duggar girl has had? Jill, Jessa & Joy were all transported to the hospital after their births (unless I have wrong?). At what point will they look at the bigger picture and realize maybe they need a bit more medical care and just go to the damn hospital. Emergency transport doesn't come cheap. Is the show paying these medical bills? Do they have some amazing medical coverage the rest of us don't know about? 

My SIL just had a home birth last week. This was her second baby, her first being born in a birthing center - both attended by the same midwife. Both were easy, uncomplicated deliveries. I'm not against a home birth at all if that's what someone wants to do, but my husband was a hard NO on the subject. Not that I would have done it anyway, but the birth of our son was not without it's drama and ending in a c-section. I just can't imagine taking the chance of wasting precious time getting to a hospital in the event of an emergency. 

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1 hour ago, LillyP said:

My issue with Jessa's home-births stem from the fact she's been transferred to the hospital twice now. If I'm not mistaken, the birth of Henry is the only successful home birth a Duggar girl has had? Jill, Jessa & Joy were all transported to the hospital after their births (unless I have wrong?). At what point will they look at the bigger picture and realize maybe they need a bit more medical care and just go to the damn hospital. Emergency transport doesn't come cheap. Is the show paying these medical bills? Do they have some amazing medical coverage the rest of us don't know about? 

My SIL just had a home birth last week. This was her second baby, her first being born in a birthing center - both attended by the same midwife. Both were easy, uncomplicated deliveries. I'm not against a home birth at all if that's what someone wants to do, but my husband was a hard NO on the subject. Not that I would have done it anyway, but the birth of our son was not without it's drama and ending in a c-section. I just can't imagine taking the chance of wasting precious time getting to a hospital in the event of an emergency. 

Of the Duggar home births:

Anna: I believe all five were successful home births, though I’m not sure where she had Meredith - she was born in between scandals and they had gone silent at the point.

Jill: One known attempted home birth (with Israel.) Labor didn’t progress after a ridiculously long time and meconium was present. She needed a c-section at the hospital to deliver. Sam’s delivery had complications, but we don’t know what happened.

Jessa: Three home births. She was transferred for postpartum hemorrhages with both Spurgeon and Ivy. Henry’s birth had no known complications.

Joy: Attempted home birth with Gideon. I believe labor didn’t progress. Like Jill, she needed a c-section at the hospital to deliver. 

Personally, I’d say none of the biological daughters listed above should be attempting home births in the future. They all had complications associated with their prior deliveries and don’t appear to get decent prenatal care. They just aren’t good candidates for it at this point. 

I do think your SIL went about it in the best way possible. She and her Midwife already had a prior birthing center delivery together and she had no known issues. She seems like she was likely a good candidate for a home birth with her second and I’m glad it went well for her. 

But yeah. Give me a Hospital birth with emergency care just seconds away any day. I’d feel that way even if I was the perfect candidate for a home birth too (I’m not. Lol!) I just really find it reassuring that help is right there if something goes horribly wrong. 

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16 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

Of the Duggar home births:

Anna: I believe all five were successful home births, though I’m not sure where she had Meredith - she was born in between scandals and they had gone silent at the point.

Jill: One known attempted home birth (with Israel.) Labor didn’t progress after a ridiculously long time and meconium was present. She needed a c-section at the hospital to deliver. Sam’s delivery had complications, but we don’t know what happened.

Jessa: Three home births. She was transferred for postpartum hemorrhages with both Spurgeon and Ivy. Henry’s birth had no known complications.

Joy: Attempted home birth with Gideon. I believe labor didn’t progress. Like Jill, she needed a c-section at the hospital to deliver. 

Personally, I’d say none of the biological daughters listed above should be attempting home births in the future. They all had complications associated with their prior deliveries and don’t appear to get decent prenatal care. They just aren’t good candidates for it at this point. 

I do think your SIL went about it in the best way possible. She and her Midwife already had a prior birthing center delivery together and she had no known issues. She seems like she was likely a good candidate for a home birth with her second and I’m glad it went well for her. 

But yeah. Give me a Hospital birth with emergency care just seconds away any day. I’d feel that way even if I was the perfect candidate for a home birth too (I’m not. Lol!) I just really find it reassuring that help is right there if something goes horribly wrong. 

Wasn't Marcus's birth at birthing center or was it at the midwife's home or something? I remember they went somewhere and had to pick up Michelle along the way. But don't remember if it was to birth center or midwife's home but they had to drive to where ever the midwife was. 

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Jinger seems to be the only bio daughter with a real birth plan and no complications. But she was also induced early to avoid having a giant baby. 

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I do think, for a family that grew famous on the idea that conceiving, birthing and raising a dozen or more kids is “right”, the second generation are a much more realistic indication of what pregnancy and childbirth are like across the board. JB and Michelle have 14 healthy grandkids with 3 more on the way, because it can and does go “right” much of the time, but their children have also suffered at least 2 early miscarriages (Lauren and Anna), 1 stillbirth (Joy), 3 c-sections (Jill x2, Joy), and at least 2 post-partum haemorrhages (Jessa). Turns out birthing for Jesus is NOT a safe and simple way to live for everyone, filled with endless joy until menopause, and medical care is actually often a necessity for more women than not. Large families these days are not like they used to be with loads of infant deaths and mothers dying in childbirth, but that’s not because the risks have disappeared, it’s because medical care has improved.

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4 hours ago, Smee said:

I do think, for a family that grew famous on the idea that conceiving, birthing and raising a dozen or more kids is “right”, the second generation are a much more realistic indication of what pregnancy and childbirth are like across the board. JB and Michelle have 14 healthy grandkids with 3 more on the way, because it can and does go “right” much of the time, but their children have also suffered at least 2 early miscarriages (Lauren and Anna), 1 stillbirth (Joy), 3 c-sections (Jill x2, Joy), and at least 2 post-partum haemorrhages (Jessa). Turns out birthing for Jesus is NOT a safe and simple way to live for everyone, filled with endless joy until menopause, and medical care is actually often a necessity for more women than not. Large families these days are not like they used to be with loads of infant deaths and mothers dying in childbirth, but that’s not because the risks have disappeared, it’s because medical care has improved.

Amen. I wish an actual medical professional would hold a sweet, educational Fellowship conference and explain this to all of them. They could start with what to do to get yourself /body/home prepared for a healthy pregnancy and go all the way through postpartum hormonal changes, feelings and care, and breast feeding. It should be part of pre marriage prep and JB’s counseling and 50 page questionnaire.

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Catching up on this thread and responding to the discussions about the American healthcare system. In recent years, I have been questioning my lifelong stance against universal healthcare (so be gentle please). Someone posted a few pages back about the horrible state of VA healthcare, and I realized, this is where my fear comes from. If the U.S. had universal healthcare, V.A.-style is what everyone would be getting.

Basically, I don't trust our government to do a good job administering healthcare. Maybe other countries do it better. 

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5 minutes ago, Abstract said:

Catching up on this thread and responding to the discussions about the American healthcare system. In recent years, I have been questioning my lifelong stance against universal healthcare (so be gentle please). Someone posted a few pages back about the horrible state of VA healthcare, and I realized, this is where my fear comes from. If the U.S. had universal healthcare, V.A.-style is what everyone would be getting.

Basically, I don't trust our government to do a good job administering healthcare. Maybe other countries do it better. 

OTOH, you have Medicare, a government based system that works decently. I have yet to meet an older American , even those who hate that “gubermint”, who do es not love their Medicare. Also, I’ve yet to meet anyone who has turned Medicare down. I’m just a couple years away myself. 

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5 hours ago, Smee said:

I do think, for a family that grew famous on the idea that conceiving, birthing and raising a dozen or more kids is “right”, the second generation are a much more realistic indication of what pregnancy and childbirth are like across the board. JB and Michelle have 14 healthy grandkids with 3 more on the way, because it can and does go “right” much of the time, but their children have also suffered at least 2 early miscarriages (Lauren and Anna), 1 stillbirth (Joy), 3 c-sections (Jill x2, Joy), and at least 2 post-partum haemorrhages (Jessa). Turns out birthing for Jesus is NOT a safe and simple way to live for everyone, filled with endless joy until menopause, and medical care is actually often a necessity for more women than not. Large families these days are not like they used to be with loads of infant deaths and mothers dying in childbirth, but that’s not because the risks have disappeared, it’s because medical care has improved.

In addition, Michelle had preeclamsia 2 times, one of them resulting in the birth of a micro preemie who needed months of NICU. Michelle also had an early miscarriage and another at 20 weeks! And I think she had 5 C-sections.

The difference between Michelle and her daughters is that she seems to understand that medical appointments and hospital births are safer than unsupervised pregnancies. I wonder what does she think about her girls' unsafe deliveries. 

Jessa looked so disgusted and scared in Michael's toilet birth that I always thought she was going to choose hospital births with 5 epidurals at least. 

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9 minutes ago, Melissa1977 said:

In addition, Michelle had preeclamsia 2 times, one of them resulting in the birth of a micro preemie who needed months of NICU. Michelle also had an early miscarriage and another at 20 weeks! And I think she had 5 C-sections.

The difference between Michelle and her daughters is that she seems to understand that medical appointments and hospital births are safer than unsupervised pregnancies. I wonder what does she think about her girls' unsafe deliveries. 

Jessa looked so disgusted and scared in Michael's toilet birth that I always thought she was going to choose hospital births with 5 epidurals at least. 

Yes, Michelle has some bad outcomes, but those appear to be after many healthy, standard, successful pregnancies...and yes, Michelle did seek professional care.

I think the mundane, constant pregnancy and childbirth atmosphere in the TTH,  plus very likely a lack of affordable and comprehensive health care insurance has led these ladies to take a higher degree of risk in these processes.

TLDR; JB and M  treated pregnancy and childbirth like most of us treat a trip to Costco. I blame them for the indoctrination and withholding educational opportunities; declaring intellectual curiosity and individualism mortal sins. They have handicapped their own kids. It’s times like these where it really shows.

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59 minutes ago, Abstract said:

Catching up on this thread and responding to the discussions about the American healthcare system. In recent years, I have been questioning my lifelong stance against universal healthcare (so be gentle please). Someone posted a few pages back about the horrible state of VA healthcare, and I realized, this is where my fear comes from. If the U.S. had universal healthcare, V.A.-style is what everyone would be getting.

Basically, I don't trust our government to do a good job administering healthcare. Maybe other countries do it better. 

Spanish goverment is not great (and has never been) but public healthcare is our treasure. It's free for everybody while not everything is full covered and you pay for the drugs, for example. I pay taxes, but I will never pay one million (which I don't have) for a cancer treatment. Maybe I'll be always healthy, but my taxes will make that my father or my neighbour or whoever will be healed.

And while there is a trend to think that private/corporation works better than public/goverment, it's often tricky. Goverments must show accounts and results more accurately than a company, because it is public. I work in finances and some international corporations are a mess while everybody trust them blindly.

And on the other side, free healthcare makes THE WHOLE population healthier. Nobody is afraid to go to the doctor. During a time, some citizens (foreigners with no job, mostly) had no free healthcare, just emergency. The result was that they didn't go to the doctor because were scared of the bills and sicknesess spread. So the free care was back, because it's safer for everybody. 

I could write for hours about it. The biggest fear of Spanish citizens is to privatise public healthcare. 

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Also, as others have mentioned, pregnancy is an incredibly intricate process, and when factoring in the number of pregnancies that occur, a large number ( not %, but number) will end unsuccessfully. Proper care will decrease the unsuccessful outcomes, but will not eliminate all. So talking  about pure numbers, a family that believes in rampant reproduction will gave a greater chance of having a bad outcome here and there, based on a larger number of pregnancies...and that’s before you factor in poor prenatal care.

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7 hours ago, JordynDarby5 said:

Wasn't Marcus's birth at birthing center or was it at the midwife's home or something? I remember they went somewhere and had to pick up Michelle along the way. But don't remember if it was to birth center or midwife's home but they had to drive to where ever the midwife was. 

It was at the midwife’s home. She was across the state line in Oklahoma and possibly wasn’t allowed to practice in Arkansas?

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1 hour ago, SassyPants said:

TLDR; JB and M  treated pregnancy and childbirth like most of us treat a trip to Costco. I blame them for the indoctrination and withholding educational opportunities; declaring intellectual curiosity and individualism mortal sins. They have handicapped their own kids. It’s times like these where it really shows.

All my personal speculation:

I also blame JB for the hounding about not going into debt for any reason, ever.  Truly money-poor people can get pregnancy care and hospital births. The Duggar kids are not in that class, but likely don't have the funds available to pay for good comprehensive healthcare. JB likely keeps those funds tied up. But there ARE funds, and JB doesn't want anyone getting in a position to have funds taken legally from that source. (Sorry, can't think of the term... not quite a lawsuit but that other legal method for when folks don't pay for services and it goes to a collection agency; not garnishment because the kids really don't have employers.) So the kids don't want to have to pay for stuff* or possibly go into debt, therefore home births.

In my younger years we had a few car break-downs. If not for a credit card there would have been no affordable way to get to work in these parts. People can use their credit cards for emergencies then give up other stuff (if there is anything to give up, like entertainment, gifts, junk food, alcohol, baby hair bows) and get it paid off. Oops, I forgot... there's always grifting... I do realize there are working people who are doing the best they can and may have nothing to give up.

*stuff, you know, like prenatal health care

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8 minutes ago, Bobology said:

All my personal speculation:

I also blame JB for the hounding about not going into debt for any reason, ever.  Truly money-poor people can get pregnancy care and hospital births. The Duggar kids are not in that class, but likely don't have the funds available to pay for good comprehensive healthcare. JB likely keeps those funds tied up. But there ARE funds, and JB doesn't want anyone getting in a position to have funds taken legally from that source. (Sorry, can't think of the term... not quite a lawsuit but that other legal method for when folks don't pay for services and it goes to a collection agency; not garnishment because the kids really don't have employers.) So the kids don't want to have to pay for stuff* or possibly go into debt, therefore home births.

In my younger years we had a few car break-downs. If not for a credit card there would have been no affordable way to get to work in these parts. People can use their credit cards for emergencies then give up other stuff (if there is anything to give up, like entertainment, gifts, junk food, alcohol, baby hair bows) and get it paid off. Oops, I forgot... there's always grifting... I do realize there are working people who are doing the best they can and may have nothing to give up.

*stuff, you know, like prenatal health care

Are you thinking of a judgment?  Creditors can secure a judgment and have liens put on their property, but a judgment only attaches to the debtors' assets.  It doesn't take into account resources like their parents' money.  We know that JB has all the TLC money tied up, but he also has holdings in the kids' names.  Who knows what the adult kids actually claim as income or what property they own.  So in the case of Jessa and Ben for example,  a creditor could have a lien on the house they bought for $1 from Grandma Mary, and that debt would be paid off the top when they sell the house.   The easier solution would be to negotiate a lower price and a payment plan and maybe go to work to make the payments like the rest of the world.   

So my long winded answer to your question is yes--they could go into debt with medical bills and eventually have to pay them off.  Debt does not go away.   Of course they could avoid it altogether if they would get real jobs and pay for insurance for the e!eventy births they are planning on.  

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6 hours ago, Melissa1977 said:

The difference between Michelle and her daughters is that she seems to understand that medical appointments and hospital births are safer than unsupervised pregnancies. I wonder what does she think about her girls' unsafe deliveries.

Definitely. But I’m more thinking of the early specials, when she was younger, because most people will attribute Josie and Jubilee’s serious outcomes to Michelle’s age and the strain on her body from such a high number of previous pregnancies. She got to 14 kids with fewer complications than there have been getting to 14 grandchildren - because Michelle is the exception, not the rule, AND because she had adequate prenatal care that her daughters have not all opted for. Looking at the family overall, the takeaway should be “birth is dangerous, get good care”.

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10 hours ago, Abstract said:

Catching up on this thread and responding to the discussions about the American healthcare system. In recent years, I have been questioning my lifelong stance against universal healthcare (so be gentle please). Someone posted a few pages back about the horrible state of VA healthcare, and I realized, this is where my fear comes from. If the U.S. had universal healthcare, V.A.-style is what everyone would be getting.

Basically, I don't trust our government to do a good job administering healthcare. Maybe other countries do it better. 

So I live in California and have done so for much of my life. When I returned from South Korea pregnant, unmarried, unemployed and without health insurance, I was covered medically (I believe medi-cal, but not 100% sure). I opted for a midwifery practice under the umbrella of an ob-gyn (due to shifting on-call times, I wound up with the doc attending my weekend labor, and none of the midwives ?).  I was able to choose from 3 hospitals for preregistration, based on the level of care provided (I opted against the one with a NICU that had all the bells and whistles and chose the more relaxed facility). Both my daughter and I were covered for months afterward. Once enough time had passed (15 years ago), I was dropped from the coverage but she still had everything available to/for her. 

15 years later, I have California government subsidized insurance again (read up in the plight of adjuncts if you’re curious about my particular situation. There are many overeducated folks in this same boat). When I needed assistance with my mental health, I had to wait a few weeks, but was able to contact a therapist, a nurse practitioner, and a pharmacist to help me get generic meds all covered by taxes. I also get dental care through the same program. Everyone I’ve worked with has been professional, compassionate, and helpful, and whatever the field. 

From what I hear, New York and Hawaii are similar in providing quality public health care. There are likely other states about which I know nothing, but which provide quality care. So much of it depends on the  funding and implementation, which varies widely state by state. But they are honestly not all bad whatsoever. I truly love my home state and it’s commitment to helping it’s citizens.

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13 hours ago, Abstract said:

Catching up on this thread and responding to the discussions about the American healthcare system. In recent years, I have been questioning my lifelong stance against universal healthcare (so be gentle please). Someone posted a few pages back about the horrible state of VA healthcare, and I realized, this is where my fear comes from. If the U.S. had universal healthcare, V.A.-style is what everyone would be getting.

Basically, I don't trust our government to do a good job administering healthcare. Maybe other countries do it better. 

I think part of the American healthcare issue is that Drmocrats push for universal (at least, they do now), and Republicans push for limited government. So we end up with something not fully funded, that Republicans point to and say, "see? Government can't get anything right!" If we would fully fund government entities, I think we would be in much better shape.

I recently read a book about politics in the '90s and found it interesting that in order to balance the budget (gee, where did that concern go?) Republicand wanted to cut education and... I want to say Medicare? funding.

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As someone who has worked with insurance in one form or another for the past 20 years, I can honestly say that insurance in 2019 is the worst it's been in a really long time. It's a combination of issues. One of the biggest I've seen in the last 2-3 years is that the government basically allowed CVS to become a monopoly. They control warehouses, manufacturing, factories, insurances(recently bought Aetna), PBMs, stores, unions, the list goes on even more. 

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19 hours ago, apandaaries said:

 

From what I hear, New York and Hawaii are similar in providing quality public health care. There are likely other states about which I know nothing, but which provide quality care. So much of it depends on the  funding and implementation, which varies widely state by state. But they are honestly not all bad whatsoever. I truly love my home state and it’s commitment to helping it’s citizens.

We had very good care in Minnesota through MN care when we used it about 13 years ago. At the time I was pregnant with my son, we had a 1 year old and my husband was just out of the military waiting on his disability claims to go through. It was great at the time, I was able to find an OB practice that I loved and a great family practice doctor. 

Now our primary insurance is through my husband's work but both he and I receive a portion of our medical care through the VA. We have used VA care in 3 states and one US territory now and so far it has been okay for us, we haven't run into many of the issues that we have heard others complain about. My husband has to go twice yearly for appointments related to his disability but he usually ends up there 5 or 6 times a year since he goes there for anything that may even be remotely related. I rarely use the VA care, but I rarely go to a doctor expect for annual exams. I know that this is not the case everywhere though, and the VA system can be a nightmare if you need a referral or have an issue outside of the norm. For us, it was much harder to navigate the claims process than the actual care itself though. 

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