Lori 67: Stop reading - it'll give you ideas

[SuperNova]

1 hour ago, Imrlgoddess said:

The idea that men and women have been working together for only 40 years is a joke.  Men and women worked in tandem decades, centuries longer than he chooses to admit. 

What a stupid thing to say (not @Imrlgoddess). Germinal by Emile Zola takes place in the 1860's where men and women worked in the coalmines. If he meant more white collar type work, Ah Bonheur des Dames also by Zola takes place in a department store where men and women worked together. That was published in the 1880's. Yes it's fiction but they were written to be slice of life style books and accurately depicted conditions of the era.

Edited June 12, 2019 by SuperNova

[Frog99]

Who is this gem? Has she no knowledge of wet nurses and how they have been used for centuries? Or the exploitation of black women in the south? She clearly has no understanding of child development, attachment, and object permanence. 

ETA- I was adopted as an infant and not breastfed. I have a secure attachment to my parents  I briefly breastfed both kiddos- they are attached, confident, thriving, empathetic, intelligent, and rarely sick. 

Edited June 12, 2019 by Frog99

[ladyicantxplain]

I've been away from FJ for awhile again. I see that Lori has not yet improved; she thinks she is being maligned by satan for writing her newest book?  More like called out by the true body of Christ for being a false teacher...

In other news, it may SEEM slightly off topic but it's really not.  I've been having issues with women who have been in that ALCR and come to me for help online with their marriages...which is to be expected, since they have been brainwashed by LorKen in the past.  

But the problem is with another teacher: is there a thread here on FJ for Douglas Wilson and Rachel Jankovic?

Does anyone know?

Doug has written some NASTY misogyny and his daughter, Rachel, threw me out of her bible study for disagreeing with her.  White supremacy has also been attributed to their writings.  They seem to be heavily influencing those who follow LorKen and ALCR and TTW.

I need more on these people. They are spiritually abusive and need to be exposed.

Edited June 12, 2019 by ladyicantxplain
adding clarity

[klein_roeschen]

I wasn't breastfeed, because my mother had to take meds after my birth since she nearly died thanks to hemorrhaging. But that wasn't the reason I had problems with her. It was her being a borderline narcisist, laying more responsibilities on my young teenage shoulders than I could carry. Only show a little affection when I did what she wanted. Always expecting me to deny myself even a little threat or shaming me when I spend a little money on myself (from money I earned throw my apprenticeship). She died when I was 20 and while I'm free of her physically, it left me with issues, that I work on in therapy. Maybe I should ask my therapist on my next appointment about the me not breastfeed as the cause for all my anxiety.

[ladyicantxplain]

@klein_roeschen, I'm sorry you had to live with such a lack of warmth from your mother. I wasn't breastfed, either, since I was adopted as an infant.  Many people over the years in MANY churches have tried to blame my past problems on "lack of bonding" with my birth mother and adoptive mother.

Breastfeeding is lovely if it works. I was devastated when I couldn't nurse my two youngest babies because they were born critically ill. I should not have been trained by religion to think that it is devastating: I was thankful they were ALIVE!

What is wrong with these people...?

[Briefly]

I don't wear make up now, although I did in the past.  My mother only wore face powder and lipstick on occasion, so I really had no clue how to wear it.  It was typical trial and error along with the rest of my teenage friends.  We figured it out.  I have always had sensitive skin and couldn't wear all the brands.  When I got pregnant with my daughter, my skin did not like any make up at all so I quit wearing it then.  I tried to wear it again after I went back to work when she was two, and it was like I had applied fire to my face.  I tried a couple of brands and it was the same, so I tossed it all and have been make up free since then.  When my daughter was getting to the age where she wanted to wear it, I took her to the make up counter at Dillards and asked one of the ladies that worked there if they could give her some guidance because her skin was also fairly sensitive.  The woman we spoke with was "grandmother age" and she was absolutely delighted to help.  She made some good suggestions as to color, etc., showed my daughter how to apply make up and gave her a lesson in skin care.  We bought several things from her.  My daughter wears it sometimes, she's not big on it but she likes it.  I don't think wearing it makes anybody a bad person or a sinner, and Lori can go stuff it.,

Breastfeeding has ZERO to do with how someone is happy or secure, unlike what Lori's follower is implying.  My mom breastfed us, Mr. Briefly's mom did not breastfeed her kids, I did try to but was unable to.  We switched to formula and really, as long as they are fed then who cares!  Nobody else's business if or why a baby is or is not breastfed.  So, again - Lori can go stuff it.

[delphinium65]

11 minutes ago, ladyicantxplain said:

What is wrong with these people...?

How long do you have?  This is going to take a while...  

[polecat]

That's rich. My mother breastfed me into toddlerhood, but I'm not sure she ever really loved me. It was a matter of convenience and necessity. I breastfed my own kids as well, and I bonded deeply with them, and while I never formula fed any of them, I suspect I would have bonded just as deeply with them if I had because, well, I loved them and loved them even before I fed them. 

[Antipatriarch]

25 minutes ago, ladyicantxplain said:

But the problem is with another teacher: is there a thread here on FJ for Douglas Wilson and Rachel Jankovic?

Does anyone know?

Doug has written some NASTY misogyny and his daughter, Rachel, threw me out of her bible study for disagreeing with her.  White supremacy has also been attributed to their writings.

Doug Wilson is a vile individual. Don't know about FJ but you can read more about him at https://www.moscowid.net/ ... be sure to take rescue ferrets if you read the story about Steven Sitler.

Short summary: Wilson is a racist, a self-proclaimed "paleo-Confederate," who has written that slavery in the U.S. wasn't really that bad. He's a misogynist who wrote (in regard to sex) that "A man penetrates, conquers, colonizes, plants. A woman receives, surrenders, accepts." He's a pastor who wrote a letter to a judge asking for a merciful sentence for a pedophile in his congregation (Sitler), and then (in the belief that what Sitler needed was an approved sexual outlet) officiated Sitler's marriage to a woman in his congregation, whereupon Sitler molested his own child.

[wallysmommy]

The persecution video is up about the negative reviews on her book.  God's perfect way is now to self-publish a book.  

[ladyicantxplain]

Mercy of heaven.

@Antipatriarch, thank you for the info. I had just landed on an article describing said Sitler situation (which made me nauseous), when I saw your comment. Thanks for the warning...

Now,  this makes sense why these same women who follow(ed) LorKen have worshipped Doug Wilson and are now attempting to worship his daughter, Rachel.  Rachel comes across as a mean girl like Lori and hates women, from what I can read and from my personal interaction with her.

This helps me a great deal. Thanks again.  Agree: a vile individual trying to install a multi-generational perversion of the Gospel in Moscow, Idaho.

[Loveday]

Regarding makeup, I wear it every day, even if I'm not going anywhere. I had terrible skin as a teen and on into my twenties, and still have some scars and redness from both the acne and some of the more misguided treatment I was given. My skin itself is vastly improved from those days--finally, in my 60s, no more breakouts! LOL-- but a light skim of foundation covers most of the scarring/redness and makes the huge pores less visible, and I enjoy looking in the mirror and seeing skin that looks almost 'normal.' I also use a slight bit of eyeshadow and eyeliner (not a Sharpie pen, Jill R!), and also eyebrow pencil because my eyebrows are disappearing at an alarming rate these days. The whole makeup routine takes me about six minutes or so. I do it for me, not for any other reason or for anyone else, not even my husband, who probably doesn't even notice one way or the other. 

Spot on comment on today's Persecution defense of her book video:

Quote

Pride is one of the seven deadly sins. Hopefully you will discover some humility through the honest 1-star reviews being left for you.

[onemama]

15 minutes ago, polecat said:

That's rich. My mother breastfed me into toddlerhood, but I'm not sure she ever really loved me. It was a matter of convenience and necessity. I breastfed my own kids as well, and I bonded deeply with them, and while I never formula fed any of them, I suspect I would have bonded just as deeply with them if I had because, well, I loved them and loved them even before I fed them. 

I breastfed my three for 15 months, 18 months and over 3 years (only in the evenings after about 18 months).  I have an appointment with a doctor tomorrow to have my eldest tested for asthma so no, breastfeeding him for 15 months may not have protected him from that.  

I was lucky to be able to breastfeed and I loved it -once I got used to the hormones- .  I produced tons of milk and breastfeeding kept me skinny. Skinnier than I'd ever been or have ever been since. I miss those days of eating as much as I wanted and not putting on an ounce....   

My husband didn't breastfeed our kids but he managed to bond with them very well, so well that he was the one getting up with #1 whenever he needed attention at night after #2 arrived, and then with #1 and #2 when #3 arrived and they needed attention at night.  We often woke up all together in our bed. The boys both knew to crawl in with Papa, while our daughter crawled in beside me.   They're all well over 10 now and none of them crawl into bed with us any more. Those were good times. ?

@klein_roeschen, I'm so sorry you had to go through that. I wish you all the best with your therapy.  I'm in Germany too. Up north, not far from Bremen. 

Edited June 12, 2019 by onemama

[CaseyGrace]

25 minutes ago, Antipatriarch said:

Doug Wilson is a vile individual. Don't know about FJ but you can read more about him at https://www.moscowid.net/ ... be sure to take rescue ferrets if you read the story about Steven Sitler.

Short summary: Wilson is a racist, a self-proclaimed "paleo-Confederate," who has written that slavery in the U.S. wasn't really that bad. He's a misogynist who wrote (in regard to sex) that "A man penetrates, conquers, colonizes, plants. A woman receives, surrenders, accepts." He's a pastor who wrote a letter to a judge asking for a merciful sentence for a pedophile in his congregation (Sitler), and then (in the belief that what Sitler needed was an approved sexual outlet) officiated Sitler's marriage to a woman in his congregation, whereupon Sitler molested his own child.

Also, I remember the Natalie Greenfield suituation. This is a good explanation I think http://jorymicah.com/how-complementarianism-played-into-my-sexual-abuse-under-my-former-pastor-doug-wilson-by-natalie-greenfield/ 

Edited June 12, 2019 by CaseyGrace

[Antipatriarch]

24 minutes ago, CaseyGrace said:

Also, I remember the Natalie Greenfield suituation. This is a good explanation I think http://jorymicah.com/how-complementarianism-played-into-my-sexual-abuse-under-my-former-pastor-doug-wilson-by-natalie-greenfield/ 

Yes. Natalie's story is covered in the Jamin Wight section of https://www.moscowid.net/

Note the pattern, that Wilson also wrote a character letter in Wight's case, just as he did for Sitler. This is what Wilson does, he goes to bat for the abuser (the man), and reassures the judge (and everyone else) that Jesus and the church will reform him. It's disgusting.

[Leftitinmysnood]

@ladyicantxplain, Doug Wilson is also buddy-buddy with RC Sproul, Jr. and Sproul's daughter Darby says she was abused by Sitler before he was shipped to Moscow, ID.

 

[ladyicantxplain]

Thanks to all of y'all. I am understanding what is going on now.

Daddy Dougie has apparently strategically placed Daughter Dearest (Rachel Jankovic) in a position to do his dirty work in a way that the women will find "softer, gentler and more appealing".

 

Evil.

 

To the core.

 

Thank you for exposing this and sharing; all of y'all.

[older than allosaurs]

There is a Doug Wilson section in the Families part of Archived Topics here.

And should you want more of Rachel, and her mother, and her sister, and her sister-in-law (who pops up periodically on blogs and Twitter to defend all things Wilson) they are at Feminagirls.com

The estimable Katie Botkin, who lives near the Wilsons, has blogged about the Natalie Greenfield situation and Doug's response.

Doug no longer takes comments on his blog, and I no longer subject myself to reading it, but I would bet real money that there is overlap between his and Lori's MRA readership.

 

 

[SuperNova]

4 hours ago, Frog99 said:

Who is this gem? Has she no knowledge of wet nurses and how they have been used for centuries? Or the exploitation of black women in the south? She clearly has no understanding of child development, attachment, and object permanence. 

ETA- I was adopted as an infant and not breastfed. I have a secure attachment to my parents  I briefly breastfed both kiddos- they are attached, confident, thriving, empathetic, intelligent, and rarely sick. 

Oh my fucking Rufus. Lori brings out the batshit crazies faster than any other fundy. Dawn Amber is a moron who claims to be able to identify people who were not breastfed. How? Does she quiz people? Like, oh em gee, not breastfeeding is "super unfair". I think Dawn Amber was dropped on her head as a baby because I can usually tell those who have been.

[SilverBeach]

9 hours ago, fransalley said:

He grew up without a father and I think he's tried to be a decent husband and father because he knows what it's like to be without a father.

He hasn't tried to be a decent husband and father, he is a decent husband and father because he is a decent human being.  I'm sure every rock was turned over in an attempt to find dirt on him, yet, there was nothing.  Interestingly, racists pegged him as a Muslim who had a Christian pastor.  So stupid. Obama is still my president. 

[Briefly]

4 hours ago, onemama said:

I breastfed my three for 15 months, 18 months and over 3 years (only in the evenings after about 18 months).  I have an appointment with a doctor tomorrow to have my eldest tested for asthma so no, breastfeeding him for 15 months may not have protected him from that.  

I was lucky to be able to breastfeed and I loved it -once I got used to the hormones- .  I produced tons of milk and breastfeeding kept me skinny. Skinnier than I'd ever been or have ever been since. I miss those days of eating as much as I wanted and not putting on an ounce....   

My husband didn't breastfeed our kids but he managed to bond with them very well, so well that he was the one getting up with #1 whenever he needed attention at night after #2 arrived, and then with #1 and #2 when #3 arrived and they needed attention at night.  We often woke up all together in our bed. The boys both knew to crawl in with Papa, while our daughter crawled in beside me.   They're all well over 10 now and none of them crawl into bed with us any more. Those were good times. ?

@klein_roeschen, I'm so sorry you had to go through that. I wish you all the best with your therapy.  I'm in Germany too. Up north, not far from Bremen. 

My daughter was diagnosed when she was around age 3 or 4, I can't remember now but I don't think the lack of being breastfed had anything to do with it.  It's hereditary, on my mother's side of the family.  But breastfeeding, while good if it can be done, didn't keep my sister's 2 from being asthmatic.  I hope that your doctor will listen to you, sometimes they don't when it's a young child and asthma is suspected.  Good luck!

[Lgirlrocks]

I wear makeup but not every day. I wear it for myself not anyone else. Growing up my mom sold makeup and fragrances. She never leaves the house without wearing something because she always runs into people when she isn’t wearing any and hates it. My bf doesn’t care if I do or don’t wear it. I have huge pores and, to me, it feels like everyone can see them if I don’t wear it. I work at a factory and I’m the only female in my department. 100 plus guys. It makes me feel human. I go weeks sometimes without wearing it then one day I feel like it so I do. I don’t wear any crazy colors so most people don’t know I’m wearing it. 

I guess your mom wasn’t godly enough for you? 

I looked up some of the reviews for Lori’s new book. I wonder if she takes the time to actually read then. This is the first one I read. This person has very strong arguments about the problems in this book and why. 

Spoiler

Good Intentions, Poor Biblical Understanding

I bought the book and read every word of it. First, a little housekeeping: on P. 6, Lori asks "what if older women feel disqualified [to teach]?" I think the word she's looking for is "unqualified". Splitting hairs, perhaps, but an Olympic runner may be disqualified for a positive drug test, while an unqualified runner will never even be in the race. On P. 30 she states that "provoke means to make angry." No, it doesn't. Provoke means to call forth, or to summon. It's the same root as provocative (as in provocative clothing may incite inappropriate feelings) and provocateur. Yes, you may provoke someone to anger, but you can also provoke ideas (thought-provoking), lust, and even laughter.

The book is nicely laid out and is easy to follow and could be handy in a multi-week Bible-study. However, there are serious problems with Lori's theology and interpretations, which I will discuss below.

Now the actual review. First, Lori has a habit of making sweeping generalizations and stating her opinion as if it were fact. For example: P. 27 "our culture doesn't love children", P. 30 "divorce causes children to grow up angry and bitter", P. 71 "This is so contrary to how most women would act towards a disobedient husband", P. 80 "why do you think car salesmen prefer to sell cars to women?", P. 85 "Most women do not naturally have a meek and quiet spirit". Some of her statements may have a basis in truth (i.e. the car salesmen quote), but Lori never offers a citation. She also seems to favor statements that cast women in the worst light possible. The takeaway here is don't believe something just because Lori says it's so. Without a citation, it's just her opinion.

The problems with her theology: "Biblical Womanhood" is a hot topic in conservative Christian circles right now. The problem is, there is no such thing. You will not find that phrase anywhere in the Bible. What Lori does in this book is take verses out of context in order to support her view of what should define a Christian woman. If you scan the table of contents, you will see titles such as Be Sober, Love Your Husband, Love Your Children and several more positive topics. Nothing wrong with any of that. However, some of what she recommends within those chapters is highly questionable. Under "Love Your Children", Lori advocates spanking children. Anyone who follows Lori's blog, knows that she follows Michael and Debi Pearl and their brutal "break the child's will" philosophy. She doesn't go into too much detail here, but the fact that she twice quotes Proverbs 22:15 about how to deal with the "foolishness" of a child, gives you a clue about how she views children.

Further chapters are titled "Keepers at Home", Obedient to Your Own Husband", and "Silent in Church". These form the crux of the problem with her definition of Biblical Womanhood. She says on P. 51 "It's not popular in our day and age to teach women to be home with their children instead of having a career, but that's what God commands older women to teach young women to do." First, I have to say that I believe it is good for women to be able to stay home with their children. I spent over thirty years in Human Resources management, and I can't tell you how many women employees tearfully confessed to me that they would give anything to stay at home with their children until they started school. What's ironic here is that Lori and others despise feminism and blame much of what's wrong with the world on it. What they don't recognize is that's exactly what feminists advocate - the ability of a woman to work or stay home. whichever is right for her family. However, there is nothing in the Bible that prohibits a woman from working outside the home. In fact, Priscilla was a tent maker along with her husband Aquila, Lydia was a cloth merchant and the oft-cited Proverbs 31 woman worked among the merchants and bought and sold real estate. On P. 51 Lori trots out her often used argument that "[the Proverbs 31 woman] did not leave her home for hours every day and her children in the care of others to work for a boss." This argument is absurd. When the book of Proverbs was written, virtually no one, not even the men, worked very far from home. Most people were tied to the land, and were either farmers or tradesmen working from their homes. The fact is, like many modern women, the Proverbs 31 woman looked after her household as a "keeper at home" (Titus 2:5) while at the same time, working to make money for the benefit of her family.

There is so much more that could be said about this book and Lori's whole philosophy, but in summary, if you are inclined to adopt the Biblical Womanhood model as defined by Lori, please don't forget that in addition to meekness, obedience, and submission, there are plenty of women in the Bible that Lori ignores such as brave Esther, Deborah the Judge of the Hebrew people, faithful Ruth, persistent Hannah, the nameless woman at the well who evangelized her neighbors, Phoebe who served as a deacon with Paul and many more. Please read the entire Epistle to Titus, which Lori relies upon in her religious dogma. You will see the whole picture, and what Paul was trying to accomplish in his instructions to Titus (hint: it has nothing to do with keeping women near prisoners in their homes, nor does it "command" older women to teach younger women. It allows women to have a role in the nascent church by teaching new female converts appropriate Christian behavior - no command in there).

Spoiler

There is nothing biblical about Lori Alexander, despite what her blind followers say. Tell us what is biblical about labeling women, "Subtle Wh*res, God-Hating Jezebels." Lori Alexander misuses God's Holy word for personal gain and attention. This is a person who has spewed her hatred towards everyone who will not bow down to her. Lori demands women do as she says but she herself does not do as she demands of others. Lori came from an affluent upbringing, attended an affluent university where she failed to learn anything, yet somehow was able to graduate (how does a student fail, yet still obtain a degree), married for money then admitted she only had children to escape working. A nanny and a housekeeper/cook was hired to do that which Lori could not cope with.

Lori Alexander chastises any woman who works for an income, yet here she is writing books for an income. Who is, "Keeper of the home," while Lori is on the internet 10 hour days, writing books, blogs and keeping a Facebook page. And what's with all the men who follow Lori Alexander. Lori admitted those who visit her page are, "Always learning," even those who do not agree with you. So, yes, you are teaching the men.

Lori will complain that Amazon allows those who have not purchased her book to write reviews. A search will reveal many 5-star reviews who are not, "Verified purchasers."

Lori repeatedly criticizes Christian writers saying THEIR teachings are not of God. The one who is not of God is Lori Alexander. Bible tells us to test the spirits. Lori is a critical, mean-spirited, judgmental person who knows not caring or compassion towards anyone. Its all about Lori, nothing else. And then there is the child beatings. Do a google search.

A true teacher is humble and takes time to learn when he or she is proven wrong. Lori said she learned nothing in college. She barely home schooled. She had a nanny and a maid. She is upper middle class in souther Cali. How is she qualified to teach on these subjects? 

[feministxtian]

Breastfeeding: I've breastfed for varying lengths of time, some exclusively, some not. Guess what?!? Their damn umbilical cords have yet to be cut. Y'all know how old my kids are...

Yup...damn kids...for some insane reason, even as adults feel the need to stay attached to mama in some form or another. 

[hollyfeller]

4 hours ago, Lgirlrocks said:

I wear makeup but not every day. I wear it for myself not anyone else. Growing up my mom sold makeup and fragrances. She never leaves the house without wearing something because she always runs into people when she isn’t wearing any and hates it. My bf doesn’t care if I do or don’t wear it. I have huge pores and, to me, it feels like everyone can see them if I don’t wear it. I work at a factory and I’m the only female in my department. 100 plus guys. It makes me feel human. I go weeks sometimes without wearing it then one day I feel like it so I do. I don’t wear any crazy colors so most people don’t know I’m wearing it.

 

 

I love reading everyone's makeup backgrounds and habits! Thank you all so much for sharing.  I'm an engineer and I work with very few women.  And at least half of those don't wear any makeup at all.  I generally go for the no makeup  with a few products look to avoid looking like a zombie (I have fatigue issues so I'm ALWAYS tired), but it's because I prefer it.  I generally hate lipstick, but I've found a few lip stains that look natural and last a long time.  I am single AF and not actively seeking a relationship so I most definitely wear makeup only for myself!

[Sarah92]

 I wear makeup pretty much everyday. Today was glittery peach eyeshadow. It's still very tasteful though. Since I wear glasses I prefer to fill in my brows with a pencil. I love highlighters and having glowy skin. I am blessed with great skin for the most part so if I remember I use a bb cream with spf. I adore lipstick as well. I'll wear nudes lipsticks ( speaking of breast feeding. apparently your perfect nude lip shade is the color of your nipple?) or reds. I wear more simple work looks during the week and play with color during the weekend. As far as attracting men, I doubt he's gonna look at my sparkly, peach eyelids and decide he wants to marry me. My mascara is called "Better than Sex" so clearly I'm not trying to attract men because I got something way better lol.