if your husband is nice, you're also not submissive enough

[kayray]

Wait... so to speak to your partner before spending big money on something makes you submissive? Seriously? When is it acceptable to spend a large chunk of money without talking to all involved?

Bizarre, isn't it. Do I take this to mean that their husbands undertake major renovations and buy vehicles without any discussion at all beforehand, as that would be considered "submissive"?

"Hey, wife, I know we have a dozen children and only one loaf of bread for the rest of the week and you keep having to repurpose our curtains for all the girls clothing, but check out my new wheels! I knew you would be okay with it because...well, quite frankly, I don't care...and if you do, you should be submitting to me some more.."

[margiebargie]

...submissive in such a clandestine way that he doesn't notice. Seems to work great! :-)

Lol. Yes, I work very hard at being submissive without dh noticing. He has no idea that I'm controlling him through my submission.

[Sola]

I'm a wife, not a doormat. That is all.

[Angri-la]

I'm a wife, not a doormat. That is all.

I just gotta say, some night, when you need some spicing up, dress up in your birthday suit, take an eyebrow pencil and write "Welcome" on you, and lie down somewhere. I am not a doormat either, but I can neither confirm nor deny that I (or someone I know) may or may not have done this to great success....

[AnnoDomini]

Hey kayray um, would it be completely inappropriate and entirely wrong of me to ask if you're gay? If it is, please feel free to yell at me (though, not being properly 'submissive' to any and all men, I just might yell back)

[thoughtful]

Yep, you got it. You can never be too submissive. This woman's ENTIRE life revolves around being as submissive as she can toward her husband. I wonder what would happen if he ordered her to stop being submissive?

The image of Captain Kirk getting Landru to self-destruct comes to mind. ;)

I looked for a video and couldn't find it, but here is a transcript -- it's near the end:

http://www.chakoteya.net/StarTrek/22.htm

[Deleted12]

A lot of this so-called "submission" seems to me like what the people in BDSM circles call "topping from the bottom."

If you're being submissive as some sort of a ploy to get your husband to start acting differently, then you're not being very submissive at all, are you?

Also, why would a just and loving God make half of the people on Earth smart, capable, gifted, independent, and strong, and then tell them "No, your role in this life isn't to help your husband with the billing, or help him calculate how much concrete to buy, or help him research his sermons, your role is to go fetch him his slippers and cook his food and change the diapers for his kids?"

Maybe that's why the Botkin girls are still single: they may not be thinking for themselves, but they've been taught to be intellectuals, and that's too threatening for most fundie men.

[MamaJunebug]

I remember listening to an ultra-conservative Lutheran talk show where the host was exhorting us to determine whether or not a sermon had a good balance of Law and Gospel by asking us to count the number of references to Christ, the number of references to Christians.

His theory was that the less a pastor or blogger in this case spoke about Christ, the more the pastor or blogger ignored Christ's love and saving work, in favor of berating listeners or readers with expectations for their perfect keeping of the law.

So I searched the above blogpost for Christ. Wow, 10 mentions of Christ! Upon finding them all -- they have to do with "whether or not you are a follower of Christ" and "how well you keep the rules Christ set down."

These people should not be permitted to call themselves Christians. I'm serious. Call themselves Lovers Of The Law Who Believe Jesus Was The Messiah But Mostly Who Love The Law And Beating Each Other Over The Heads With It.

Oh. Yeah, I see why that wouldn't work. There's not a church sign in the world large enough to accommodate all that. And then to add "Presbyterian" or "Baptist" or "Non-denominational" to boot .... tch. Well, it's a start.

[SquirrelySquirrel]

Anyone else here have a relationship where NOTHING WOULD EVER GET DONE if you were some submissive doormat? I love my husband to bits but he tends to be a bit indecisive and wishy washy. Add that with the fact that he works a lot of hours and I work part-time from home, and you have a situation where I have no choice but to be the dominating force when it comes to many issues. That's not to say he doesn't have lots of opinions or that he's spineless, because that's far from the truth.

And of course there's this minor thing where we see each other as equals and fully respect what the other brings to the table, and neither of us has an issue with questioning the other over a disagreement. I would literally go jump off a cliff before I'd live the life of this blogger and others.

[emmiedahl]

I am also in that relationship. I am the hub, I run everything. He would be stupid to ignore the person who actually knows how things operate in our household.

Husband: (fiddling with remote control) why isn't this working?

Normal wife: You need to push 'TV' before you change the channel. Right now it is on 'VCR'.

Submissive wife: It works however you say it does, my lord. I am sorry for bringing this box of evil into our lives, this electronic device that dares to defy you! Shall I bring the rod?

[BlackHawk]

I am also in that relationship. I am the hub, I run everything. He would be stupid to ignore the person who actually knows how things operate in our household.

Husband: (fiddling with remote control) why isn't this working?

Normal wife: You need to push 'TV' before you change the channel. Right now it is on 'VCR'.

Submissive wife: It works however you say it does, my lord. I am sorry for bringing this box of evil into our lives, this electronic device that dares to defy you! Shall I bring the rod?

Why do you think fundies don't have tvs? :D

[annalena]

OMG, this would be hilarious if it wasn't so pathetic:

We think that gender-based submission is a sort of sick joke in our house, but I'll be happy to answer her questions.

I'm with you!!

You say you are a submissive wife.

You say he is a kind, undemanding husband.

Ummm- let me think about that one- NO

I am suspicious of that.

Have you really got a husband who is so careful all the time not to require something uncomfortable of you? Is that really such a good husband? I am suspicious that you have him on a choke collar. He doesn't dare ask some things of you because he knows how you would respond.

- He really is, believe it or not. He's great . He's AWESOME. He's a much better person than I am. He dares to ask me everything. And, hey, I dare to answer the way I want!

What would your response be if:

He called you at your ladies Bible study because he really needed you to bring him tools or keys that he forgot? Would he even dare to call you? Would he be branded as unthoughtful, demanding, or callous toward your apparent need to study the Bible?

- Sure he would, there are situations you are dependent on each other. As would I! (Though I do not feel an apparent or any need to study the bible)

What is your response if:

He invites people home from church on Sunday to eat lunch at your house without consulting you about it and just lets you know in the car on the way home that 5 or 10 people are coming for lunch? Is he able to freely invite whom he wants? Would you feel he is insensitive to all the unplanned work?

- Well if cooking was my responsiblity (which it is) I either wouldn't mind or be pretty pissed about it. He knows me well enough to know when I'm busy though and he'd never do that without consulting me first . And , umm, yes, he is unsensitive.

What would you think if:

He actually wanted you to wear a more modest dress or head covering?

- That he has lost his mind.

Is he able to stand against the normal and do RIGHT because you are his helpmeet and you will support and submit? Or must he follow the tide because of you?

- Of course I support him, as he support me. Normal or not, not an issue to us, we need to feel good with what we're doing.

Submission is only called upon when there are disagreements. If you are happy with his plans, or agree together there is no submission in these things. It is when YOUR OWN PLANS have been spoiled that you can practice submission. It is then that you need to DIE to your SELF and follow God's plan for you as a wife

- Oh , no way I am dying (sp?) myself. I will, though, hold back my own plans once in a while to do him a favor and do what he has planned rather then making him do what I have planned.

AS DOES HE FOR ME.

[emmiedahl]

What if your husband wants you to dress a little sluttier? I showed mine this blog and he said he actually would like it if I took off my head scarves and wore some skinny jeans. I guess I should submit... but the salwar kameez is so comfy!

[Vex]

Is it horrible that the only way I remembered who she was was when I saw her picture and thought, "Oh, the ugly one (I more accurately, "the one with the ugly clothes/headcovering")!" :oops: I don't feel too bad because she's crazy and thinks divorce is EVIL even when a husband is beating up his wife and sexually abusing his children.

If it's horrible, we're horrible together.

She is so arrogant! She's telling people they're wrong and she's right... then later admits she got her bible verses mixed up.

Also, asking your spouse to help you out of a jam (like driving over to help them because they locked their keys in the car) is NOT the same as giving you 5 minutes notice that they invited over a large group of people. When a commenter points out that it's totally inconsiderate to invite over a large group at short notice, she ignores this and talks at length about how it wouldn't be an issue if she'd had something stored away for just such an occasion, and how it doesn't matter what she serves because the fellowshipping is the focus, and then how it could be Jesus and his angels themselves that rock up at your house as a test of obedience. Wow, way to address a point. No wonder your husband doesn't want your opinions.

[Sola]

Anyone else here have a relationship where NOTHING WOULD EVER GET DONE if you were some submissive doormat? I love my husband to bits but he tends to be a bit indecisive and wishy washy. Add that with the fact that he works a lot of hours and I work part-time from home, and you have a situation where I have no choice but to be the dominating force when it comes to many issues. That's not to say he doesn't have lots of opinions or that he's spineless, because that's far from the truth.

And of course there's this minor thing where we see each other as equals and fully respect what the other brings to the table, and neither of us has an issue with questioning the other over a disagreement. I would literally go jump off a cliff before I'd live the life of this blogger and others.

Yeah me. I wouldn't say my hubby is wishy washy but he is the most indecisive man I have ever met. He has his opinions and he is a great dad and husband but he simply cannot make a decision and gladly leaves that all to me.

But you know Squirrel, according to the fundies it's our fault our husbands are like this. If we would submit and allow them to lead they would suddenly step up to the plate :roll:

It never seems to occur to them that there are men out there who don't want to be leaders, decision makers and command men.

[samismad]

You say you are a submissive wife.

You say he is a kind, undemanding husband.

I'm single, but....

I am suspicious of that.

Have you really got a husband who is so careful all the time not to require something uncomfortable of you? Is that really such a good husband? I am suspicious that you have him on a choke collar. He doesn't dare ask some things of you because he knows how you would respond.

What would your response be if:

He called you at your ladies Bible study because he really needed you to bring him tools or keys that he forgot? Would he even dare to call you? Would he be branded as unthoughtful, demanding, or callous toward your apparent need to study the Bible?

He couldn't. I turn OFF my phone for ALL church events, and for most social outings. He can text, and I'll get to it when I turn on my phone. Which for me, could be never.

What is your response if:

He invites people home from church on Sunday to eat lunch at your house without consulting you about it and just lets you know in the car on the way home that 5 or 10 people are coming for lunch? Is he able to freely invite whom he wants? Would you feel he is insensitive to all the unplanned work?

I'd be fine with it. I might suggest afterwards that he let me know earlier next time, so that I can make sure that his jocks aren't on the kitchen table. (Let your mind wander where you want.)

What would you think if:

He actually wanted you to wear a more modest dress or head covering?

I'd tell him that the only way I could be more modest is if I started wearing a burka. And we aren't Muslim.

Is he able to stand against the normal and do RIGHT because you are his helpmeet and you will support and submit? Or must he follow the tide because of you?

Hopefully he can swim against the tide, and I'll support him. But I'm single, and these things are difficult to tell...

Submission is only called upon when there are disagreements. If you are happy with his plans, or agree together there is no submission in these things. It is when YOUR OWN PLANS have been spoiled that you can practice submission. It is then that you need to DIE to your SELF and follow God's plan for you as a wife.

I agree with this though. (Told you I was fundy)

[annalena]

What if your husband wants you to dress a little sluttier? I showed mine this blog and he said he actually would like it if I took off my head scarves and wore some skinny jeans. I guess I should submit... but the salwar kameez is so comfy!

haha:D imagine a fundy husband saying "I'd REALLY love for you to go out with me tonight, please throw on a mini skirt and heels. oh, and forget about the underwear..."

fundy women might want to try this. not a chance in hell he's not gonna like it, at least physically;)

[annalena]

Have you guys seen this comment by "Ephesians 5:22" ? (Is this the blog author??)

I never question what my husband does or says. He is the head of the home & his words are law. He doesn't need to consult me on anything that he says or does. It is not my place to question or interject my opinions. My husband rarely asks my thoughts on a subject but if he does I always tell him to do what he wants because I know that he will. I am his helpmeet which means that I am to submit with joy in my heart at all times.

All I can say is WOW. Way to be abused.

[Confused_by_religion]

Have you guys seen this comment by "Ephesians 5:22" ? (Is this the blog author??)

All I can say is WOW. Way to be abused.

...and proud of it. :cry:

"I always tell him to do what he wants because I know that he will." Good grief.

[MamaJunebug]

I couldn't help but think about this again last night.

Basically, this woman says that if you're not in conflict, you're not in a good marriage.

Whu-uh?

How would she defend that Scripturally? By mis-applying Jesus' statiement, "I come not to bring peace but a sword" which didn't have a thing to do with marriage, but with the idea that He would create further division amongs the Jews, with some believing in Him and some not.

That won't work.

I really can't get over how so many folks are responding to her as if she's got the last word. Has she never known a couple who simply get along, who have left behind the internecine conflicts in favor of a mutually uplifting, give-and-take kind of marriage?

Again: When Paul wrote to women to be submissive, IIRC from intelligent Bible study, it was in reaction to women who were acting like street ho's, basically, being all Roman in their behavior, dress and morals.

When Paul wrote to men to give their lives for their wives, again IIRC it was in reaction to men who considered wives nothing more than personal property, something to be substituted by another woman in case the first one died, got a disease, or displeased the guy.

Why oh why do these people not see how they are damaging the body of Christ and the cause of His church on earth?

[skankbiscuit]

I would not be happy if my husband brought home a whole bunch of people and expected me to serve them lunch and wait on them. That is treating your wife like a slave or maid in my book.

[docmom]

Joanne is basically insecure. She has chosen this way of life because it offers clear rules and promises amazing results. Unfortunately, life isn't as wonderful as she thought it would be but she can't go back on her original decision so she needs to convince herself that her life really is great. One of the ways of to do this is to convince everyone else that she's chosen correctly- hence her blog. It's one way of dealing with insecurity. If you're really OK with a decision you've made you don't feel the need to shout it from the rooftops. I feel sorry for her but she has to admit that this isn't working and get out of this situation.

[annalena]

I feel sorry for her but she has to admit that this isn't working and get out of this situation.

Like that is going to happen.

I kinda feel like she's been abused by her family in whatever way and really thinks this is normal cause it is her normal. But then again, I'm really not sure.

[annalena]

If it's horrible, we're horrible together.

I was thinking "oh, the one that is SERIOUSLY INSANE and not just a little bit. The one that puts those weird weird pictures of signs like "women be meek quiet and submissive" on her facebook profile picture.

[annalena]

If it's horrible, we're horrible together.

I was thinking "oh, the one that is SERIOUSLY INSANE and not just a little bit. The one that puts those weird weird pictures of signs like "women be meek quiet and submissive" on her facebook profile picture.