Josiah and Lauren 14: Another Grand-Duggar on the Way (Miscarriage Content Warning)

[nst]

1 hour ago, VelociRapture said:

Lauren kind of reminds me of Anna and Michelle with her intensity. I can’t really explain it though. I just get the sense that those three really believe what they’re saying when they talk about their beliefs. I get a similar vibe from Jana when she’s posted religious type stuff or praised her parents online. I have a feeling she’ll stick more closely to their family’s core beliefs regardless of whether she marries or not. 

this 1000# - she is Anna and Michelle and the vibes are there.  I can't stand any of these three

[SassyPants]

Lauren does have Michelle and Anna’s adoring stare and breathy voice downpat.

[CorruptionInc.]

I don't know how to explain my question here but I will try.

An article I read said they said they are having a "rainbow baby".

I'm not quite sure what they mean by this, is it a term to honour their miscarriage? 

For some reason when I first read it I was like "Rainbow as in LGBTQIA+?" 

(I hope I am not causing disrespect to anyone by posting this!)

[viii]

16 minutes ago, CorruptionInc. said:

I don't know how to explain my question here but I will try.

An article I read said they said they are having a "rainbow baby".

I'm not quite sure what they mean by this, is it a term to honour their miscarriage? 

For some reason when I first read it I was like "Rainbow as in LGBTQIA+?" 

(I hope I am not causing disrespect to anyone by posting this!)

Babies conceived after a miscarriage are often referred to as a rainbow baby, aka the rainbow after the storm. 

[Smee]

^I think it’s also a reference to God’s rainbow after the flood in the Noah’s Ark story. As in, life starting anew.

[Edhelfin]

Carrying this from the previous thread here - I do not understand why people who think pregnancy speculations (related to the body) are bad but pregnancy predictions (related to the biological schedule and fertility i.e. the body again) are ok. In my book, "her belly looks big" is as bad as "she will get pregnant in two months". For a fundie girl that must feel like the world is going like "c'mon, chop chop, do your duty" and she may feel like a failure if that does not happen.

I doubt the intention of someone saying "she looks pregnant" is "lol fat". But let's not be hypocritical here. Such comments are extensions of pointless discussions such as "x and y will be the next to have a baby and oh here are some name suggestions". If speculations on the body are triggering, so are speculations on timing, biological issues and choices.

Edited May 23, 2019 by Edhelfin

[bal maiden]

33 minutes ago, Edhelfin said:

Carrying this from the previous thread here - I do not understand why people who think pregnancy speculations (related to the body) are bad but pregnancy predictions (related to the biological schedule and fertility i.e. the body again) are ok. In my book, "her belly looks big" is as bad as "she will get pregnant in two months". For a fundie girl that must feel like the world is going like "c'mon, chop chop, do your duty" and she may feel like a failure if that does not happen.

I doubt the intention of someone saying "she looks pregnant" is "lol fat". But let's not be hypocritical here. Such comments are extensions of pointless discussions such as "x and y will be the next to have a baby and oh here are some name suggestions". If speculations on the body are triggering, so are speculations on timing, biological issues and choices.

I agree, but I think in terms of the ‘chop chop do your duty’, the pressure from us at FJ is pretty minimal, compared to the pressure and expectation from JB and Michelle, and fellow fundamentalists. It’s not like they’re chugging along happily with their one or two kids and then BAM FJ/Duggar Data makes them feel like they should be reproducing. I don’t believe for a minute that Michelle doesn’t ask her daughters and DILs if they are expecting on a monthly basis.

[RosyDaisy]

And all the while they slut shame and strip women of their rights. I have a hard time feeling sympathetic towards them.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

2 hours ago, Edhelfin said:

Carrying this from the previous thread here - I do not understand why people who think pregnancy speculations (related to the body) are bad but pregnancy predictions (related to the biological schedule and fertility i.e. the body again) are ok. In my book, "her belly looks big" is as bad as "she will get pregnant in two months". For a fundie girl that must feel like the world is going like "c'mon, chop chop, do your duty" and she may feel like a failure if that does not happen.

I doubt the intention of someone saying "she looks pregnant" is "lol fat". But let's not be hypocritical here. Such comments are extensions of pointless discussions such as "x and y will be the next to have a baby and oh here are some name suggestions". If speculations on the body are triggering, so are speculations on timing, biological issues and choices.

Becusse it has nothing to do with the fundies or their feelings.  If they read here there is a hell of a lot more that should upset them than pregnancy speculation.

and if they feel pressure to have another baby from the public in the form of a snark board then they need serious professional help.

im going to keep it brief because I’m as tired of repeating myself as you all are of reading it but the difference is how it affects women as as a whole in our culture.

FJers have shared how bad the bump inspection speculation makes them feel about themselves becusse the implication is that anything less than a perfect BMI and flat stomach means there has to be a reason and that it’s okay for everyone to comment on.

It’s a societal issue some of us take seriously the way we don’t like the airbrushed perfection of media contributes to women and girls having lower self esteem and hating their bodies - and hurting themselves striving for unattainable standards of perfection.

scrutinizng other women’s bodies is part of that.  Not the whole problem, but some of us are bothered to see it here.

now - even though I made it super clear (again) this isn’t about fundies or their feelings count down until someone ignores that and posts about how fundies are awful and deserve hurt feelings.  Go.

Edited May 23, 2019 by HerNameIsBuffy

[Georgiana]

"Rainbow Baby" is a really common term and in no way fundie exclusive or Biblical (though they may apply a Biblical reference to it, most people who use the term do not).  It's fairly widely used to describe a pregnancy or a child conceived after a miscarriage or loss.  It can be useful because a pregnancy after a person has experienced a pregnancy loss may be a different journey for many women (and couples).  The emotions may be different.  The way they relate to their pregnancy may be different.  And it's useful to be able to talk about that.  

But like everything, it's all in how you use it.  I have no issues with "rainbow baby" being used to describe a pregnancy or an infant, but I do know people who force the label on their children who are rapidly entering the age of reason, and that's where I draw the line.  It's inappropriate to place adult grief onto children, and children deserve to have their own unique identities and not be labeled primarily by a loss that happened before they were conceived, IMO.  But MOST people use the term responsibly.  

As for Siah and Lauren being super-fundie, I get those feelings as well.  I think both Siah and Lauren struggled to fit the one size fits all fundie mold (because unless you're the "right" kind of masculine for boys and the "right" kind of feminine for girls, that can be a struggle.  It's a very narrow mold), and instead of breaking free, they both doubled down and then found each other.  I think this is something deep that bonds them, because they both understand that struggle and came to the same conclusion, and I think now they feed into each other and encourage further doubling.  This is pure speculation (but NOT speculation on any sexual or gender orientation, the fundie mold is so confined that broad swaths of cis-het folks don't fit as well as other folks), but it's the sense that I get from both of them.  

[VelociRapture]

1 hour ago, Georgiana said:

"Rainbow Baby" is a really common term and in no way fundie exclusive or Biblical (though they may apply a Biblical reference to it, most people who use the term do not).  It's fairly widely used to describe a pregnancy or a child conceived after a miscarriage or loss.  It can be useful because a pregnancy after a person has experienced a pregnancy loss may be a different journey for many women (and couples).  The emotions may be different.  The way they relate to their pregnancy may be different.  And it's useful to be able to talk about that.  

But like everything, it's all in how you use it.  I have no issues with "rainbow baby" being used to describe a pregnancy or an infant, but I do know people who force the label on their children who are rapidly entering the age of reason, and that's where I draw the line.  It's inappropriate to place adult grief onto children, and children deserve to have their own unique identities and not be labeled primarily by a loss that happened before they were conceived, IMO.  But MOST people use the term responsibly.  

As for Siah and Lauren being super-fundie, I get those feelings as well.  I think both Siah and Lauren struggled to fit the one size fits all fundie mold (because unless you're the "right" kind of masculine for boys and the "right" kind of feminine for girls, that can be a struggle.  It's a very narrow mold), and instead of breaking free, they both doubled down and then found each other.  I think this is something deep that bonds them, because they both understand that struggle and came to the same conclusion, and I think now they feed into each other and encourage further doubling.  This is pure speculation (but NOT speculation on any sexual or gender orientation, the fundie mold is so confined that broad swaths of cis-het folks don't fit as well as other folks), but it's the sense that I get from both of them.  

Yes, rainbow baby is a very common term regardless of religion. Some families prefer not to use it and that’s ok. Others, like myself, use it for a period of time and that’s ok too. I only used the term for the first two or so years of my daughter’s life and I rarely used it to anyone other than my husband. Stacy Skrysak, a TV news anchor I follow on Instagram, is currently using the term to describe the baby girl she’s pregnant with six years after two of her three triplets died when they were born right before the 23 week mark. And we have posters on here who have experienced all types of loss and have spoken about how they haven’t used the term themselves. 

Each family is unique, each loss is different, and it’s important to respect that everyone will react differently. There really is no right or wrong way to react.

I definitely did react to pregnancy differently after my loss. The first tine I was just constantly happy. I had a feeling something was going to go wrong, but I was mostly just happy. While I was pregnant with my daughter I was a bundle of nerves. So was my husband. We were constantly worried something would go wrong and the baby or I or both of us would die. It was difficult to fully enjoy the pregnancy because of that. This tune is different as well because in addition to being worried about another loss, I also have the fear of another premature birth and NICU stay to cope with. My Doctors and I have a solid plan in place to address that and I’m seeing a therapist they recommended to help me cope with the flares of anxiety. We’re doing our best to enjoy this time in our lives, but it’s still tough and scary. I feel kind of sad that I haven’t really had the opportunity to enjoy pregnancy the way so many other women do.

Edited May 23, 2019 by VelociRapture

[Iamtheway]

5 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

I feel kind of sad that I haven’t really had the opportunity to enjoy pregnancy the way so many other women do.

I think we are being tricked to believe in the happy, glowing mother to be. How many women actually enjoy their pregnancies? Isn’t it mostly worry, aches and hemorrhoids? 

I hope you stay clear of all of those and that your second arrow is not in as much of a hurry as their sister! 

Miniway arrived at his duedate and that was nice of him. Would have been nicer if he hadn’t taken so freaking long to do it though.

I hated being pregnant so much that I’m 100% sure I don’t want to do it again (also 100% sure I don’t want to give birth, breast feed or have a baby). I’m only like 95% sure I don’t want another child though ... 

Mr Way wants one more but Miniway has said he’d rather have a dog so we have been two against one (not that Miniway has an actual say) but then a couple of days ago he turned on me and said he really wanted a baby sister. Main reason? So that he could squirt her with his water gun if she came close to his shopkins. Big brother potential in that one ... 

[VelociRapture]

24 minutes ago, Iamtheway said:

I think we are being tricked to believe in the happy, glowing mother to be. How many women actually enjoy their pregnancies? Isn’t it mostly worry, aches and hemorrhoids? 

I hope you stay clear of all of those and that your second arrow is not in as much of a hurry as their sister! 

Miniway arrived at his duedate and that was nice of him. Would have been nicer if he hadn’t taken so freaking long to do it though.

I hated being pregnant so much that I’m 100% sure I don’t want to do it again (also 100% sure I don’t want to give birth, breast feed or have a baby). I’m only like 95% sure I don’t want another child though ... 

Mr Way wants one more but Miniway has said he’d rather have a dog so we have been two against one (not that Miniway has an actual say) but then a couple of days ago he turned on me and said he really wanted a baby sister. Main reason? So that he could squirt her with his water gun if she came close to his shopkins. Big brother potential in that one ... 

I actually flat out told me husband I’m not doing this again... as we were hugging... right after my first ultrasound for this pregnancy. ?

But I get it. Pregnancy is tough in a lot of ways. I always wanted a big family, but going through pregnancy, birth, and parenthood definitely changed my mind on that. I’ll settle for two (hopefully) healthy tiny tyrants and call it a day. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

2 hours ago, Iamtheway said:

How many women actually enjoy their pregnancies?

I did.  I really loved being pregnant and had post partum euphoria each time.  If I could live in that emotional state I absolutely would.

[KeshetParparNesicha]

Is @HerNameIsBuffy Michelle's secret FJ username?

[HerNameIsBuffy]

8 minutes ago, KeshetParparNesicha said:

Is @HerNameIsBuffy Michelle's secret FJ username?

Ha!  No, but I do get her pregnancy addiction as I had a very strange reaction to it - and the opposite of post partum depression,  It was like I was on incredible happy meds.  I'd have been pregnant a lot more if I didn't stop at the number I could care for financially, mentally, and emotionally.  

I also got pregnant right out of the gate each time I wasn't using BC so had I been so inclined you'd have another middle aged crazy lady with a zillion kids to talk about on here. 

Who are we kidding...like i could stay married long enough to have double digit kids!

[Anna Bolinas]

On 5/22/2019 at 11:16 AM, TatiFish9 said:

The idea that they aren't, is partially responsible for centuries of male neglecting childbirthing and child rearing responsibilities as a woman's thing. Just curious.

I mean, I doubt very much that putting out an obvious fact (the one who impregnates cannot also be impregnated) would cause men to push all of child rearing onto women, unless men were incredibly petty. 

[Chewing Gum]

7 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I did.  I really loved being pregnant and had post partum euphoria each time.  If I could live in that emotional state I absolutely would.

Me too, if I could be pregnant all my life I would be so happy. I would make a great fundie wife haha as I'm superfertile too. Postpartum time sucks for me though with rare complications, so no more kids for me.

[Edhelfin]

20 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Becusse it has nothing to do with the fundies or their feelings.  If they read here there is a hell of a lot more that should upset them than pregnancy speculation.

and if they feel pressure to have another baby from the public in the form of a snark board then they need serious professional help.

im going to keep it brief because I’m as tired of repeating myself as you all are of reading it but the difference is how it affects women as as a whole in our culture.

FJers have shared how bad the bump inspection speculation makes them feel about themselves becusse the implication is that anything less than a perfect BMI and flat stomach means there has to be a reason and that it’s okay for everyone to comment on.

It’s a societal issue some of us take seriously the way we don’t like the airbrushed perfection of media contributes to women and girls having lower self esteem and hating their bodies - and hurting themselves striving for unattainable standards of perfection.

scrutinizng other women’s bodies is part of that.  Not the whole problem, but some of us are bothered to see it here.

now - even though I made it super clear (again) this isn’t about fundies or their feelings count down until someone ignores that and posts about how fundies are awful and deserve hurt feelings.  Go.

Thank you, I shall. If something needs to be repeated, it will be.

I completely agree that the perfect body image/biological expectations imposed on women are real issues. I have my own. That is why I disagree that pregnancy speculations are not harmful. These girls think fertility is perfection. Any reminder of their timings or delays etc (we know that they do not use BC so timing is most likely biological) will make them feel less than perfect. I agree that they need psychological help. But if a comment on a bloated tummy will make them feel bad, so will a comment on her babymaking schedule.

Another thing that bugs me (yes it has been talked about before, but it is still going on and it bothers me):

Is it ok to make fun of Josh's weight then? Or the receeding hairlines of Duggar boys? There is so much to snark about other than bodily functions or the way they look. Josh provides enough material to snark on, being an asshole, his weight has nothing to do with it.

Edited May 24, 2019 by Edhelfin

[lumpentheologie]

11 minutes ago, Edhelfin said:

Is it ok to make fun of Josh's weight then?

No, it's not. Fat-shaming is never okay. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

1 hour ago, Edhelfin said:

Is it ok to make fun of Josh's weight then? Or the receeding hairlines of Duggar boys? There is so much to snark about other than bodily functions or the way they look. Josh provides enough material to snark on, being an asshole, his weight has nothing to do with it.

It's not to me, I think that's vile.  

To snark on Josh's weight is to imply that what he looks like has anything to do with how horrible he is.  He deserves the hate for who he is as a person, but if he looked exactly the same but was a wonderful person people wouldn't mock his looks so why do it now?

And ditto their hair - I am sure the nasty comments (which I don't see much of and can't remember the last time, but I don't see everything) hurts other perfectly lovely men who happen to be losing their hair early.  

IMO the comments about people's inherent looks are just mean girls shit and detract from what the real problem with these people are.   Now the part of their look that they choose?  If JRod gets mocked for that makeup, or Michelle for sporting a crunchy perm in 2019 so be it...they choose some ridiculous fashion statement for attention than attention they will get.  

1 hour ago, Edhelfin said:

Any reminder of their timings or delays etc (we know that they do not use BC so timing is most likely biological) will make them feel less than perfect.

I see your point, but for me it illustrates mine.  I'm not concerned about protecting their feelings.  I'm concerned about the message the body scrutiny sends to other FJ members and guests who read here.  I'm just speaking for myself.

[lizzybee]

Why do people want to make fun of someone else's weight? There's not enough actual uncool things to snark on other than someone's struggles with their body that exist outside of the realm of their harmful beliefs? Kind of difficult to believe we're on a better level than the folks we're discussing here if we're willing to stoop to such cheap and hurtful shots that can be just as painful for the people reading here as you intended it to be for the target. I'm sure it's wonderful living with zero flaws and I'd also like to be in that position. Unfortunately, I am not. Hopefully, if I ever regress to the level of snark-worthy behavior in fundamentalism, you'll care more about my actions and beliefs than whether I'd ought to be hopping on the stair master on the reg. 

[VelociRapture]

3 hours ago, lumpentheologie said:

No, it's not. Fat-shaming is never okay. 

I’ll go a step further and argue that the comments about Derick’s appearance aren’t always ok either. I can kind of get it if people are discussing his teeth from a strictly medical point of view, but there are a lot of BEC comments about him that seem unfair - especially one recently where the poster said something about how they felt sorry for Izzy because he already looks like Derick and appeared to have his teeth issues too*. It was part of that kind of ridiculous conversation about Izzy’s teeth in which people were claiming he was obviously being neglected due to his crooked teeth and the perceived color of them when really it was a combination of his age and poor photo quality.

*Obviously paraphrased heavily as I don’t recall the exact wording. I didn’t see the comment initially, so didn’t respond to it that time. 

[nausicaa]

12 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Ha!  No, but I do get her pregnancy addiction as I had a very strange reaction to it - and the opposite of post partum depression,  It was like I was on incredible happy meds.  I'd have been pregnant a lot more if I didn't stop at the number I could care for financially, mentally, and emotionally.  

I also got pregnant right out of the gate each time I wasn't using BC so had I been so inclined you'd have another middle aged crazy lady with a zillion kids to talk about on here. 

Seriously, you should have been a surrogate and cleaned up financially!

[SweetJuly]

I'm with @HerNameIsBuffy Pregnancy came easily for me and I enjoyed it very much, having had no issues apart from some annoying nausea at the beginning and heartburn at the end. I'd be pregnant all the time if it didn't mean my husband and I inadvertently turning quiverfull.

If I lived in the US, I'd seriously consider becoming a surrogate. Alas, I live in a European country where only altruistic surrogacy is legal (still a step up from many other European countries where surrogacy is banned), so it's not a job alternative for me.