Pastor David Richards was convicted of repeatedly raping his 14-year-old daughter over 4 years.

[HeadshipRegent]

Just read this on Twitter: Ex-pastor David Richards was convicted of raping his daughter over 4 years. The prosecutor recommended 72 years  in prison. The judge felt he was a good Christian and gave him 12.

 

I’m so fucking disgusted and speechless. 

 

Link to the news here if you can stomach it: https://www.westernmassnews.com/ex-pastor-who-repeatedly-raped-adopted-daughter-sentenced-to-years/article_40d41b48-36f8-5fdf-ba0e-eef349daca37.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=user-share

[Black Aliss]

I don't know which is more disgusting, the pastor raping his daughter or the judge giving him a light sentence for  being a good christian or that 30 people showed up in court to support him. I just can't even. . .

[infooverload]

Is it just me or is there an uptick of shitty sentences for men who do these sorts of things? I mean to name a few: the judge out of Alaska who didn't charge the man with jail time after he kidnapped a woman and there was DNA evidence, because he lost his job and felt basically that was punishment enough. The judge who gave a light sentence recently because their was only 1 victim. I mean gee didn't realize we were determining punishment for crimes based on victim count. Must have missed how victim count affected application of laws class. I know there have been more. There is usually this tone of gee we don't want to ruin a good man's life who stumbled. Nope when you can't manage to keep your body to yourself like most us learned in kindergarten, you do not get to be called a good man or human being. You instead are willfully malicious and don't need to be seen as a good member of society.

 

Edited May 16, 2019 by Blahblah
Remove signature

[Don'tlikekoolaid]

I would be waiting for him to get out of jail.  In the meantime hopefully some big thug makes him his girlfriend.

[apandaaries]

I don’t think it’s an uptick in this; I think people and the media are just now paying attention. 

[JillyO]

26 minutes ago, Don'tlikekoolaid said:

I would be waiting for him to get out of jail.  In the meantime hopefully some big thug makes him his girlfriend.

I'm as disgusted as anyone by this, but can we not encourage prison rape? As a community, I hope we are better than this.

[Granwych]

8 minutes ago, JillyO said:

I'm as disgusted as anyone by this, but can we not encourage prison rape? As a community, I hope we are better than this.

I'll own the "eye for an eye" judgment here.  And nothing anyone writes here will influence prisoner's behavior at all.  This POS pastor will probably organize a Bible study in his facility and maybe even get time off for good behavior.  His victim got very little justice.

Edited May 16, 2019 by Granwych
Additional thought

[Aine]

6 minutes ago, JillyO said:

I'm as disgusted as anyone by this, but can we not encourage prison rape? As a community, I hope we are better than this.

Agreed. I'm a sexual assault survivor but I'm not hoping that what was done to me is done to my perpetrator because at the end of the day, that will just be another perpetrator getting his kicks in that whole scenario. I don't like rape being talked about in off-hand ways like that, even if that suggestion is just a "figure of speech". I remember towards the end of my high school days in the mid-2000s, it became one of the in vogue turns of phrase in my age group to use "raping" as anything that was "difficult". Examples, "That exam raped me!" "Omg...you got raped in that game!" etc. I hated it and called people out on it at the time and it wasn't received well by most but my friends stopped saying it (at least when around me). 

I posted this in the scandals thread but can someone tell me if prosecutors can appeal a sentence in the US? Or only the defendant? 

[Palimpsest]

The sentence is disgustingly short and that judge should certainly be removed.  Ir won't change the sentence, but protests might get the judge off the court.  Protests against judges like this have occasionally succeeded elsewhere, but it is an uphill road. 

Sadly folks, this sort of sentence happens all the time.   Be outraged!

So many judges don't take rape and incest seriously.  They especially don't take the rape of adopted children seriously enough because they don't seem to compute that it is incest. 

And playing the Christian card works far more often than is acceptable.

It is bad and will be getting worse thanks to Trump and judges appointed in this regime.

People must speak up and speak out.

30 minutes ago, JillyO said:

I'm as disgusted as anyone by this, but can we not encourage prison rape? As a community, I hope we are better than this.

What you said.  Thanks.  Can we all strive not to descend to that level, however angry we feel.

[Don'tlikekoolaid]

1 hour ago, JillyO said:

I'm as disgusted as anyone by this, but can we not encourage prison rape? As a community, I hope we are better than this.

You guys are right, I need to calm down before I post.  I’m going to the prayer closet for a while.

[Aine]

So I was looking into the ability of the State to appeal a sentence in the US because I'm outraged and know that it's possible in my home country, also a common law country but different constitution.

One thing with questions to lawyers said yes:

https://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/can-the-prosecutor-appeal-a-sentence--2617779.html 

But then I got dragged into a deep read of Fifth Amendment rights and double jeopardy, including this good but outdated paper from the Duke Law Review (as a UNC graduate and proud Tar Heel, I feel dirty using the word 'good' to refer to anything to do with Dook : https://scholarship.law.duke.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2752&context=dlj

But then I read this from the ACLU and that seems to interpret the 'United States v DiFrancesco' decision that the substance of appeals is more important than the form of the laws (i.e. if Congress could put in place a law that would do the same or worse with sentencing or increasing sentences and it not be unconstitutional, then there is no use in ruling a law that increases a sentence as a violation of double jeopardy, even if the way it was written may be unconstitutional, because in its substance the same effect could happen if the form of the law was different?). https://aclu.procon.org/view.background-resource.php?resourceID=003060

I need a law person to help me out here? I know we have some lawyers or people more educated in law than I am (~1.5 years of law at an Australian institution is so far from sufficient for me to be knowledgeable about just about anything except maybe jurisprudence because that is the first year of classes where I went...and torts). I get the purpose of double jeopardy and better a guilty man go free than the state have the ability to continually hound an innocent person for all their life and things...but I so badly want there to be a way to correct this miscarriage of justice. No individual should have the power alone and unquestioned to say that a man "of God" (?) deserves 1/7th of the sentence he should get for raping his underage daughter. Especially when there are plenty of people of color, many of whom were definitely good church-goers not that it should matter, serving far longer sentences for non-violent drug offenses. 

Someone tell me this can be fixed by the legal system...please?

#endrambling

8 minutes ago, Don'tlikekoolaid said:

You guys are right, I need to calm down before I post.  I’m going to the prayer closet for a while.

I get it...emotions are strong. I know that there are people I definitely think I'd like to see dead for their actions even though I don't rationally believe in capital punishment. The emotions we feel when hearing the horror that other humans are capable of definitely brings that out in just about anyone with the ability to feel empathy for the victim and disgust towards the monster who is capable of such heinous behavior. Thanks for being willing to rethink it  

[JMarie]

I was kinda hoping he'd be old, so he'd die in prison. But he's only 41.

[SilverBeach]

2 hours ago, Don'tlikekoolaid said:

You guys are right, I need to calm down before I post.  I’m going to the prayer closet for a while.

You did nothing wrong. Fuck that child molesting bastard. I hope his prison time is hard as fuck. I was molested as a child and had my molester been sent to prison I would have given no fucks about what happened to him. My sympathy is all for the little girl. 

3 hours ago, JillyO said:

I'm as disgusted as anyone by this, but can we not encourage prison rape? As a community, I hope we are better than this.

Prison rape is a reality and that poster did not encourage it, she just wouldn't cry if it happened. Neither would I. This is indeed a good, compassionate, caring community for non-rapists.

I should have never clicked on this thread, and I will put it on ignore.  I was a victim of child rape by my stepfather and I just can't muster up any concern whatsoever for perpetrators of such vile acts.  Something sure as hell needs to be done so that when this asshole gets out of prison he won't rape any more little girls.  Excuse me while I go throw up.

Edited May 16, 2019 by SilverBeach

[Palimpsest]

42 minutes ago, SilverBeach said:

I just can't muster up any concern whatsoever for perpetrators of such vile acts.

I hear your pain and identify with it.  A lot.

But it is not "concern for perpetrators of such vile acts "  that makes me draw a line.  It is not wanting to descend to angry hoping that similar vile acts are perpetrated upon perpetrators of vile acts (even if they deserve it.)  That is their level.  It should not be ours.

Because it continues the cycle.  Some of us think that the cycle of vile acts needs to be interrupted, and stop there.

Somehow, somewhere., some when ...

I am probably being a goody-goody and a silly optimist.  But, speaking for myself only, IMO revenge tends to bite back, does not heal, and doesn't break the cycle of violence.

Peace Out.

 

 

Edited May 16, 2019 by Palimpsest

[subsaharanafrica]

4 hours ago, Aine said:

Someone tell me this can be fixed by the legal system...please?

#endrambling

Eh...yes and no. Yes it’s possible for the prosecutor to appeal an illegal sentence but in order to be successful the judge must have not followed an applicable statue (like if a specific felony is punishable by “not less than one year in prison” and the judge gives probation.) If a sentence is overturned on these grounds it goes back to the original judge at the trial court level for resentencing.

It’s not as common in the US as elsewhere as the judge is the one with all the discretion and his reasoning, so far as it is in line with the law, isn’t really reviewable.  

 

[Toothfairy]

Some of these judges need to get off the bench

[AliceInFundyland]

...There's an HBO documentary about Larry Nasser, the US Gymnastics coach.

You want to see an awesome judge?

The situation and story is despicable. But that judge is awesome. She made him listen to some 155?  Victim statements. Somewhere in the middle of it he wrote a letter of grievances. At the end of their statements he attempted to say he was sorry. She asked him if he was changing his plea. He said something evasive.

Then she read something from his letter about how the girls had been swayed by the media and "hell had no fury like a woman scorned" Based on that, she said, she was convinced he was not sorry, and she was writing his death sentence (by giving him the maximum)

It was awesome.

[NoKidsAndCounting]

I saw the HBO documentary about Larry Nasser.  I loved that judge something fierce.  I am SO GLAD she made him sit through all of that.  The interesting thing I noticed was that he didn't show much emotion listening to the various girls/women APART from one.  There was a lady who (I think) in now in her late 30s, and she was a friend of the family whom he molested.  It appeared he knew her on a more personal level.  Larry Nasser cried when she spoke.  I had this feeling when I watched this that he had a very strong attachment to her.  She might have been one of his "first," and he was trying to recreate this with other girls.  I'm glad he'll have to do his time.

[Black Aliss]

19 hours ago, infooverload said:

Is it just me or is there an uptick of shitty sentences for men who do these sorts of things? I mean to name a few: the judge out of Alaska who didn't charge the man with jail time after he kidnapped a woman and there was DNA evidence, because he lost his job and felt basically that was punishment enough. The judge who gave a light sentence recently because their was only 1 victim. I mean gee didn't realize we were determining punishment for crimes based on victim count. Must have missed how victim count affected application of laws class. I know there have been more. There is usually this tone of gee we don't want to ruin a good man's life who stumbled. Nope when you can't manage to keep your body to yourself like most us learned in kindergarten, you do not get to be called a good man or human being. You instead are willfully malicious and don't need to be seen as a good member of society.

 

ICYMI, there's been an escalation in the war on women in recent years. I do not use the term "war" lightly. Atrocities such as you mention here are a normal part of war.

Edited May 16, 2019 by Black Aliss

[AliceInFundyland]

@NoKidsAndCounting

That older woman did have more of an impact on him. (Older as in, 37ish, and he has been doing this for 20 some years)

Now that I have seen the Michael Jackson documentary and seen the R. Kelly series (there is a follow up episode on fallout to the series by the way) one of the overwhelming things that sticks out is the love that these compulsive predators generate.

In the case of Nasser it is mind-boggling how many of the girls say the whole thing started with their parents in the room. They were used to having their bodies manipulated and when their own parents didn't say anything, well, neither did they. Plus, the requisite other grooming. He was the nice guy when the coaches were assholes.

And that woman and her mom, yeah, they reminded me of MJ's victims. Completely his friends.

[Aine]

19 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

I hear your pain and identify with it.  A lot.

But it is not "concern for perpetrators of such vile acts "  that makes me draw a line.  It is not wanting to descend to angry hoping that similar vile acts are perpetrated upon perpetrators of vile acts (even if they deserve it.)  That is their level.  It should not be ours.

I agree.

I have zero concern for this guy. None. I want to see him suffer by being deprived of his liberty for the rest of his natural life. I also wouldn't have any sympathy at all for him if he is raped in prison. In fact, I'd probably feel some level of satisfaction that the piece of scum that he is might gain even a tiny bit of insight into what he did. 

But at the same time, I hate the thought of another rapist getting his rocks off and feeling powerful and giving that rapist any sense of being justified in his actions because of the actions of his victim. It's not the same, but there are so so so many men that rape that already feel justified in their actions, whether it be "she was asking for it because of how she was dressed", "a man can't be expected to control himself when a woman is 'too immodest' or 'leads him on and then says no'", or "she is my daughter/wife/granddaughter/whatever so I'm entitled to her body". Also, a guy like this who is already saying the allegations are untrue, who is holding himself up as a victim that has been wrongfully convicted, and who continues to truly believe he is a man of God would totally get out of prison and talk about how he was raped when he was innocent all along and it will all become some sort of gross testimony of his "survival" and how "God got him through it and he just thought about the sacrifice Jesus made and that saw him through his prison time for a crime he didn't commit and being the victim of sodomy". ??

I know our words on here don't have any impact on any of this. But I do think that changing the conversation about sexual assault and rape starts on an individual level, even when we think there are no consequences for our words in that moment (and there may not be). But even if he never reads this and things, lots of people do read threads on this website and never comment and we don't know their life or who they are. Also, I worry that wishing for anyone to be sexually assaulted in prison minimizes the many men that have not committed a sex crime or even a violent crime that are raped in prisons around this country every day. When I worked in substance use treatment in my home country, I'd get a lot of referrals from probation and parole to see men for therapy. Many of them, especially the young blokes, were sexually assaulted while in prison and the shame that already comes with being raped by anyone is compounded in a men's prison (a hot bed of toxic masculinity and there is a huge amount of pressure to not be perceived as 'weak') and then on the outside, a lot of people do not have any compassion for men sexually assaulted in prison because they were in prison. Also, men who feel disempowered and experience shame are more likely to try and regain some of that in antisocial ways like violence or even sexual assault in the future. It really can become a cycle.

Again- no sympathy or compassion for sex offenders who are sexually assaulted. It's more the larger dialogue and implications for people who are not the sexual offender being raped.

 

[FilleMondaine]

I love this site for so many reasons. This discussion of using prison rape as a karmic end is nuanced, informative, and all-around decent. Thank you all.

All of you are correct that it is not ok to minimize rape--either by prison rape jokes, or crappy justice that fails to punish perpetrators. (Seriously, that judge should go eat rocks)

And to the survivors who have disclosed that it would feel satisfying on some level for their abusers to be raped in prison, I salute your courage and fortitude as you survived your awful, awful childhoods. While we should never ever minimize rape hoping for prison rape, the pain that you all feel is real and should be honored. If that pain causes you all to maybe not-so-secretly want for the abuser to be raped in prison, then we all should honor the fact that you were hurt so badly and the trauma was so deep that you would cross the line of decency and speak about prison rape with hope. (Well, almost hope, or no hope...working things out as I speak)

I suppose what I did't like was the response to these survivors' expressed pain. I didn't like that commenters did a lot of "yes, you were hurt, but....". All of those "yes, but" minimizes the survivor's own pain. I don't know the appropriate response, and it obviously came from that same sense of decency I mentioned...still thinking out loud.

[Palimpsest]

@FilleMondaine, food for thought.  Speaking only for myself, it was certainly not my intent to minimize anyone's pain.  And I feel bad if my own post came over that way to you.  I see how it could.   I don't think anyone else intended to minimize pain either.

However, I'm going to answer your post in general terms and not specific to any survivor or member who has posted in this thread.

I think Free Jinger usually tries to be very sensitive towards survivors, but we are not a support group.  We are not set up to be one and it is not the purpose of the forum.   Free Jinger is an enter at your own risk place.  

We discuss a lot of hugely difficult subjects here all the time.  Many could be triggering for any one of us.  There are some threads here that I avoid for good reason.

We usually try to make it clear in the thread title or add a trigger warning in the first few posts if a subject is very sensitive.   But it is up to the individual to decide whether or not to read a thread.   And their responsibility to leave if the thread gets too upsetting.

We have people from all walks of life posting here and very few rules.  We can't stop anyone from sharing their opinions, unless they break a rule.  Some opinions make my hair stand on end, but I can only disagree with them.  And possibly try to educate people out of those opinions.

Like many internet fora, we have actual rules against threats of violence against someone.  People breaking them are warned or banned.; I don't make those decisions.   Wishing prison rape on someone doesn't breach those rules, as far as I know, but it comes close. In my opinion only.

I may have a lower threshold than Free Jinger Administration on that.  I really detest any threats of violence (although I may have wanted to kick John Shrader in the pants a couple of times).  That's on me.  

I  still have the right to tell people if their posts make me uncomfortable.  And if I don't think they reflect well on FJ as a whole.  We should strive to be above the comment section of Radar On Line and sites like that.

Those posts made me uncomfortable.  I get to say so.  You (general you) get to disagree.  And I get to clarify that *I* don't particularly care about the well-being of perpetrators at all.  I just think it is wrong to wish prison rape on them.

So you are right to bring this concern up.   Thanks.  But I think you are wrong if you are saying we are minimizing survivors' pain when or if we ask people, even survivors, to refrain from advocating violence and prison rape on perpetrators.  

I hope that makes sense.

Edited May 17, 2019 by Palimpsest

[Marmion]

I read here that the convicted pastor is Church of God based . https://brucegerencser.net/tag/my-fathers-house-church-of-god/  I wonder exactly what type of Church of God it might be .  See , my parents have originally been affiliated with the Church of God , Anderson , Indiana , and my sister even has ministerial credentials from a Bible college of theirs .  So I was wondering if this is the particular sect , or if it's some other group with a similar name . I know that their are different types of Church of God .  Regardless , I just wanted to say , especially as someone whom is sort of from that background , that my heart goes out to this girl , and that I feel sorry that she ended up in that situation .  I am not sure how widespread such abuse might be in such churches . However , I do know that the Church of the Nazarene , which considers itself to be a sister church of the COG , has had cases of sexual abuse .   https://www.newson6.com/story/12706671/nazarene-church-university-to-face-reforms-after-settling-sexual-abuse-lawsuit?fbclid=IwAR0BQf5h2NJcOpNhI70U_RiNmVEKcp0ysUqQV8Ljhs1zw087701OGXyoy_Q  ,  https://fox17.com/news/local/stewart-county-man-charged-with-having-sexual-contact-with-minor-while-she-slept?fbclid=IwAR2FNM0YxLRagbBvlHkUck0alwbSIHY-fbhuyJRINRbeR20oqLkLD7RIFEg   I have noticed how , like in this case , when the girl was made out to be "rebellious"  , that whenever anyone in the church complains of abuse , or anything else , the leaders will tend to respond by turning the negative attention onto the aggrieved person . They are fond of citing Matt 7:1-5 , in order to tu quoque the person with a whataboutism  .    Also , I suspect that their belief in   entire sanctification ,  makes them disinclined to believe that such accusations might be credible , as to do so could be taken to be showing a lack of faith in God's sanctifying grace .  This is the impression I have , from the insight of my own personal experiences in the Holiness movement . 

[Howl]

23 hours ago, Marmion said:

Also , I suspect that their belief in entire sanctification, makes them disinclined to believe that such accusations might be credible, as to do so could be taken to be showing a lack of faith in God's sanctifying grace.

Wow, thank you for this insightful post.  This makes the incomprehensible at least somewhat understandable, although not less horrifying.  The link you provided about Church of the Nazarene was a good clarification: 

The Church of the Nazarene: Entire Sanctification = Entire Nonsense

And in other instances, hiding behind the  "touch not mine anointed" crap has caused so much damage.