Israel Folau - fundamentalism in sports

[Ozlsn]

"The prohibition against religious tests has allowed former Anglican Archbishop of Brisbane Peter Hollingworth to be appointed Governor-General of Australia, the highest domestic constitutional officer; however, this was criticised."

Not least due to Hollingsworth's involvement in protecting an Anglican teacher/principal who was accused of sexual abuse of a minor. I know the victim - she is currently fighting (along with others) for Hollingsworth to lose his ongoing entitlements.

Oh and my favourite development so far is the Gofundme titled "Help Israel Folau study contract law" which is hilariously snarky and plans to donate any left over money to a charity helping LGBTIQ youth. 

My least favourite is a tie between the Australian Christian Lobby setting up their own donation site for Folau and chucking in $100K and Mark Latham sticking his bigoted oar in again. Seriously Latham, could you just crawl back into the swamp you oozed out of?

[smittykins]

On 6/23/2019 at 9:16 PM, Howl said:

On the US side of things, I'd put American basketball player Steph Curry out there as an example of a devout Christian athlete who doesn't post fundamentalist hate porn on social medial. 

Yankees pitchers Mariano Rivera and Andy Pettitte, as well as former catcher/manager Joe Girardi, are all devout Christians who spoke about their faith when appropriate, while letting the way they live their lives be their main testimony.

[Glasgowghirl]

1 hour ago, smittykins said:

Yankees pitchers Mariano Rivera and Andy Pettitte, as well as former catcher/manager Joe Girardi, are all devout Christians who spoke about their faith when appropriate, while letting the way they live their lives be their main testimony.

Dundee football club had player in the early 2000s, Juan Sara who was a devout Catholic and would take of his shirt to reveal a T shirt with a Bible quote on it every time he scored but he never said anything insightful and was respected, which in the Scottish game could have went the other way if he hadn't been respectful. He was a talented player but when the team ended up in administration in 2003, he and a lot of other players got let go. 

Falou had been warned not to say anything insightful online on previous occasions and knew the consequences and ignored it and his gofundme has turned some people against him that previously agreed with his stance as they felt he was being greedy. I don't have any sympathy for him and he is not likely to be signed for other clubs anytime soon. 

[Katzchen24]

On 6/26/2019 at 7:10 AM, Ozlsn said:

My least favourite is a tie between the Australian Christian Lobby setting up their own donation site for Folau and chucking in $100K and Mark Latham sticking his bigoted oar in again. Seriously Latham, could you just crawl back into the swamp you oozed out of?

"A hearing has found rugby union player Israel Folau committed a "high-level breach" of the Professional Players' Code of Conduct over controversial social media posts." I worked as a public servant for many years, and we had restrictions up the wazoo on what we could and couldn't say on social media. This is no different. It's been found he breached the conditions so he should pay the penalty. His freedom of speech is no more curtailed than anyone else operating under a code of conduct.

Another news article said that Folau deserved another chance - although I'm pretty sure he's been in trouble before for the same thing. The same article said "We've seen illicit drugs, assaults, alcohol, performance-enhancing drugs, players in precarious positions bringing really poor aspects to the game." Rugby players do tend to be treated leniently because their sports ability is more important than the women they assault.

It looks like One Nation "will introduce a private member’s bill aimed at protecting religious freedoms and is demanding Scott Morrison do the same". And those total shit-snacks Latham and Alan Jones are going to town on it.? 

[adidas]

The problem is, this meat head has twisted it and is now claiming that he was sacked because of his religion.

There is a pretty good rundown here. 

https://www.news.com.au/sport/sports-life/one-unresolved-legal-question-at-the-heart-of-israel-folaus-case/news-story/387b057b25ab325d35ea494b9ed087b3

[Ozlsn]

49 minutes ago, Katzchen24 said:

Another news article said that Folau deserved another chance - although I'm pretty sure he's been in trouble before for the same thing. The same article said "We've seen illicit drugs, assaults, alcohol, performance-enhancing drugs, players in precarious positions bringing really poor aspects to the game." Rugby players do tend to be treated leniently because their sports ability is more important than the women they assault.

This is his second chance. He decided his need to tell people they were going to hell was more important than the code of conduct he signed. The fact that other players have been given more than second chances -evenfor worse crimes - is irrelevant - he knew what the risks were. (Rugby and AFL and some other sports need to start penalising people much more though for violent and other crimes, totally. And maybe we could stop pretending that men playing sport even at an elite level is the be all and end all.)

55 minutes ago, Katzchen24 said:

His freedom of speech is no more curtailed than anyone else operating under a code of conduct.

And in total agreement that he needs to get out into a job with less pay and equally as many restrictions and maybe see how much his values are worth to him. Being rich, famous and talented does not give him the right to breach his contract. 

And now we have the bakers equivalency argument, where refusing to bake a gay couple a cake is equivalent to Rugby Australia having a code of conduct. FFS.

[adidas]

He wants an apology. 

https://www.news.com.au/sport/sports-life/sam-clench-israel-folau-should-deliver-his-own-apology-not-demand-one-from-others/news-story/6989ea2ee06c4d87dd4dab8b5e7f7d25

I wonder ... if they apologised - would he drop the $10million case? Or would his greed drive him further?

Because last year after his first breech of contract he said he would quit if he was found to be doing damage ... which they found.

This was written a while ago:

 

edit: ugh I’ve messed up the quote box and included more of my post within in. But I can’t seem to edit the quote box sorry.

Quote

Retired Wallabies star Drew Mitchell pointed out Folau’s hypocrisy, questioning whether he was a “liar” for saying one thing and doing another as he fights to save his $4 million contract.

Mitchell referenced a first-person piece Folau wrote for Players Voice last year in which he said if RA CEO Raelene Castle told him his views were doing too much damage to the governing body, sponsors and the rugby community, he would quit.

“After we’d all talked, I told Raelene if she felt the situation had become untenable — that I was hurting Rugby Australia, its sponsors and the Australian rugby community to such a degree that things couldn’t be worked through — I would walk away from my contract, immediately,” Folau wrote.

Folau has clearly received that message from Rugby Australia, who is trying to sack him, but he is refusing to walk away from his lucrative deal, leading Mitchell to point out the difference between his words and his actions.

***

the next bit shouldn’t be in the quote box

***

 

And not only that, but he has been caught blatantly lying about Rugby Australia, saying they offered him money to take down his post. They denied this and made a statement:

https://www.sportingnews.com/au/amp/rugby/news/rugby-australia-accuses-israel-folau-of-lying-on-eve-of-fair-work-commission-hearing/u6zpb9vrctzp1is189l6arkgh

please note - I do NOT think that rugby Australia should apologise to him. I’m just pointing out that he is a liar, and according to his Instagram post, we know his thoughts on liars.

He’s a greedy hypocrite.

 

 

Edited June 28, 2019 by adidas

[Blahblah]

Good article by Sam  Clench as quoted above by @adidas.

You can't repent from something you didn't choose.

Folau is completely tone deaf.

And I have yet to hear from Folau that if he wins his $10 million case he will use some of that money to refund those who paid for him to run it. So he's greedy as well as stupid.

[adidas]

One of australia’s leading religious figures has said that the offended Christians need to sit down and shut up. Christians are not persecuted in Australia. 

https://www.news.com.au/national/politics/christians-in-australia-need-to-suck-it-up-and-calm-down-over-religious-freedom-battle/news-story/653d519df4f48e92798fbe2d190d2fef

[Ozlsn]

14 hours ago, adidas said:

One of australia’s leading religious figures has said that the offended Christians need to sit down and shut up. Christians are not persecuted in Australia. 

https://www.news.com.au/national/politics/christians-in-australia-need-to-suck-it-up-and-calm-down-over-religious-freedom-battle/news-story/653d519df4f48e92798fbe2d190d2fef

I suspect Tim Costello's work with World Vision has given him a sense of proportion. Unlike certain high profile sportsmen.

[Katzchen24]

8 hours ago, Ozlsn said:

I suspect Tim Costello's work with World Vision has given him a sense of proportion. Unlike certain high profile sportsmen.

I've always wondered what Christmas dinners are like in the Costello household...... I know this is heading into politics, but Tim seems to be decent for a religious leader, whereas I wouldn't buy a used car from his brother. 

Tim is right though, Folau's problems are not religious persecution or diminution of his right to free speech. What I really wish is that all sporting figures were treated equally. There should be equal application of penalties for similar offences. Penalties should be proportionate to the offence. 

[Ozlsn]

I suspect they avoid politics at the table! Peter Costello... yeah I don't know. 'Better than Dutton' is setting the bar microscopically low.

Personally I would like Rugby Australia (and the other codes) to start enforcing penalties on players who break laws - and particularly on those who commit acts of violence. If they want better outcomes they have to start looking at how much they are excusing in the name of money.

[Katzchen24]

1 hour ago, Ozlsn said:

I suspect they avoid politics at the table! Peter Costello... yeah I don't know. 'Better than Dutton' is setting the bar microscopically low.

Personally I would like Rugby Australia (and the other codes) to start enforcing penalties on players who break laws - and particularly on those who commit acts of violence. If they want better outcomes they have to start looking at how much they are excusing in the name of money.

I think 'better than Dutton' is embedding the bar in a deep, deep ditch!

 

[Ozlsn]

So I thought Folau was going to your basic evangelical fundamentalist church. Turns out to be more like Westboro Baptist.

Spoiler

Scott Morrison is going to hell. So is Hillsong Pastor Brian Houston and most of the donors who gave money to former Wallaby star Israel Folau’s legal defence fund organised by the Australian Christian Lobby, according to the teachings of Folau’s church.

The 30-strong congregation of the Truth of Jesus Christ Church, established by Folau’s father Eni in 2013, believes the "everlasting torture and doom" of hell awaits most Christians, with Catholicism seen as "the synagogue of Satan" and "masked devil worship".

A Christian parent of a promising young rugby player was concerned when Israel Folau began inviting players to his church. The parent decided to find out for herself what the Folaus were preaching. What she discovered has disturbed her greatly.

"I honestly do not want my son involved in what I have come to understand is false teachings and counterfeit Christianity. I’ve gone, I’ve checked it out and I would call them an isolated hate group," she said of her attendance at bible studies at the home of Pastor Eni, as he calls himself, as well as discussions with Eni’s disciple, his 20-year-old nephew Josiah Folau.

The parent had begun questioning the church’s beliefs 12 months before Israel Folau’s controversial social media post in April that said homosexuals, fornicators, drunks, atheists and others were bound for hell.

The former rugby player is now seeking up to $10 million in damages from Rugby Australia, claiming he was unfairly dismissed over the post on religious grounds. A campaign overseen by the Australian Christian Lobby was paused when donations for Folau’s legal battle topped $2.2 million. The parent said she raised her concerns about the Folaus’ teachings with the ACL once they became involved.

Eni Folau is understood to have forbidden his son to take down the offending post which cost him his career, believing that God has given his son this fortuitous platform to spread God’s word.

The Folaus see the battle with Rugby Australia as similar to David and Goliath. "He’s going against the Goliath that is Rugby Australia, with all its resources, to show that a single man who has the one true living God on his side is able to do anything (Philippians 4:13)," Josiah Folau wrote to the parent.

The Folaus told her that if she had an accident on the way home from bible study she would go to hell because she was not a "born again" Christian. Anyone who has been baptised in a different way to the Folaus is heading for perdition.

Pastor Eni preaches that someone is "a born again believer" when they renounce the evils of their ways and are baptised in the name of Jesus Christ and "reborn" in water. "If you’ve done it a different way from this then you aren’t born again," Folau said on Twitter.

His cousin went further. "Any devout Catholic person IS NOT A SAVED CHRISTIAN WHATSOEVER. Look at Catholic doctrine, almost 100% of it is false and is filled with lies," Josiah wrote to the concerned parent. "The blasphemous Catholic mass is a paganistic ritual rooted in heresy, evil and devil worship."

Baptism, according to the Folaus, must take place in water in the name of Jesus Christ. Baptisms performed in Christian churches across Australia in the name of the Trinity – the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit - are false and those ministers are false teachers, the parent was told.

One of those who won’t be saved is Prime Minister Scott Morrison, whose Pentecostal Horizon Church teaches the doctrine of the Trinity. When the parent asked the Folaus if Mr Morrison was a Christian, they laughed and said no, "He’s a Hillsong."

"Only we have the truth," the Folaus said.

Baptisms are conducted in the kidney-shaped pebblecrete pool at the back of Eni Folau’s mansion on two hectares of land in Kenthurst, in Sydney’s semi-rural Hills District.

Property records show that Isileli (Israel) Folau bought the five-bedroom, four-bathroom house for $2.1 million in 2015.

Those close to Folau say his father wields enormous influence in his son’s life. He is a director of his son’s investment vehicles. Folau, 30, has a vast property empire including two houses in Queensland and a multi-million dollar apartment in Little Bay where he lives with his wife, New Zealand netball star Maria. Folau is also building two four-bedroom homes on vacant land he bought in Austral.

As well as filial obedience, Polynesian culture also espouses the sharing of wealth with your extended family.

Folau’s prodigious talent saw him debut for Melbourne Storm in 2007 at the age of 17. At that time the Folaus were members of the Mormon Church. Ten per cent of his earnings went to the church and the rest to his father, who controlled every aspect of his life – even which movies he watched.

The obligation to undertake two years of missionary work did not eventuate and, in 2011, Israel followed his father to the Assemblies of God and jumped codes to AFL.

"I had a personal experience with the holy spirit touching my heart," Folau said of his new faith. "I've never felt that before while I was involved in the Mormon church - until I came to the AOG church and accepted Christ."

When pastor Brian Houston left the Assemblies of God, the Folaus followed him to Hillsong.

The relationship between the Folaus and Houston is now poisonous.

In June last year Israel Folau posted a series of provocative tweets. "You can’t deny the word of God @BrianCHouston … stop teaching false doctrines and leading millions of people astray. People that are following such heresy. YOU need to wake up!!!"

"There’s a name for pastors who never speak of sin, repentance or hell – they’re called false teachers," was another tweet.

Houston replied: "@IzzyFolau has lost touch with the goodness and grace of Jesus and it’s tragic …Who is bewitching you Israel? I am still here on the same mobile number."

Folau hit back: "There’s one thing that’s common with all you prosperity preachers, You don’t ever speak of repentance, Hell, Sin. You (sic) worried about losing crowds & $$."

The Truth of Jesus Christ pays the Kenthurst Uniting Church $150 a week to use their church hall. Most weeks Pastor Eni preaches in Tongan with his nephew Josiah translating.

Josiah, who graduated from St Gregory’s Catholic College in Campbelltown in 2016, now believes that "anything born of the Catholic Church is evil".

He told the concerned parent: "The Catholic Church is a synagogue of Satan and I one hundred per cent believe and affirm that Roman Catholicism is masked devil worship."

The parent was also told of the falseness of the doctrine of the Trinity – a belief held by most mainstream Christians. When she pointed out that most Christians would not be "saved", Josiah Folau replied, "Look at what scripture says - doesn’t matter that there’s only a few of us actually believing in the truth … Only eight people were saved when the whole world was destroyed in Noah’s time."

He also told her that the Trinity "isn’t taught anywhere in scripture and it’s the biggest deception which Satan uses today".

The Folaus are firmly of the belief that bible colleges and theological studies promulgate false teachings of the scriptures and that only the direct word of the bible is to be believed.

While not a confident preacher, Israel Folau also takes to the pulpit to preach against homosexuality and other perceived sins. In June, he preached that in the future humans were going to be microchipped. According to Revelations, he said, the microchip is "the mark of the beast".

As "soldiers of Christ … we have to arm ourselves ready, so that this [clutching his copy of the bible] is the only shield!" His cousin Josiah told the congregation that they should worry more "where our bibles are than where our phones are" as the bible is "the first defence against sin and Satan".

The church also preaches that homosexuality is a sin "worthy of death" and it goes against the bible to have women deaconesses or preachers. "If you believe in women preachers, Satan’s got you!" translated Josiah from his uncle’s sermon.

Australian Christian Lobby managing director Martyn Iles said he was struck by Israel Folau's "deep humility and the sincerity of his relationship with God".

"I have never heard from him anything which contradicts mainstream Christian belief. That is not to say there is no disagreement – I am sure there is – but some disagreement is normal between Christian denominations."

Mr Iles also said: "The unity we share for the cause of free expression is the key issue driving the need for Israel’s legal fight and public campaign. All of us may one day find that our beliefs stray outside of the narrow band of political correctness and that will be a day when we treasure our freedoms."

Meanwhile, Folau and his family on Friday received notification from the Fair Work Commission that mediation with Rugby Australia had failed. The Folaus now have a fortnight to lodge an application with the Federal Court to hear the matter.

Tl;dr: he goes to a 'church' of 30 people, and believes anyone not baptised by his father is going to hell. Also the Trinity is unBiblical. 

[Katzchen24]

And proving once again that Folau continues to be a contributing member of the deep, deep well of Australian douchebags, he's back in the news.

According to him, the recent devastating bushfires in Australia were a 'taste of God's judgement'. 

In an attempt to clarify his douchebaggery just a bit further, he 'says his controversial comments that the bushfire crisis was a sign of "God's judgement" in response to the legalisation of same-sex marriage were not meant to offend but that it was a "timely reminder of God's word."' I'm quoting from the Sydney Morning Herald article from 30 Nov 2019.

He's now trying to dial it back a little, and is saying that he didn't mean that the fires were a direct personal message to the victims. I guess it's comforting to the fire victims to know that even though they've lost everything, God doesn't actually believe them to be either personally responsible for the SSM vote being carried, or benefiting from it by all then becoming married homosexuals. Folau seems to think rather that God is victimising one group of people for the heinous crime of believing in equal rights. 

What an a$$hole. 

[amster]

11 minutes ago, Katzchen24 said:

And proving once again that Folau continues to be a contributing member of the deep, deep well of Australian douchebags, he's back in the news.

According to him, the recent devastating bushfires in Australia were a 'taste of God's judgement'. 

In an attempt to clarify his douchebaggery just a bit further, he 'says his controversial comments that the bushfire crisis was a sign of "God's judgement" in response to the legalisation of same-sex marriage were not meant to offend but that it was a "timely reminder of God's word."' I'm quoting from the Sydney Morning Herald article from 30 Nov 2019.

He's now trying to dial it back a little, and is saying that he didn't mean that the fires were a direct personal message to the victims. I guess it's comforting to the fire victims to know that even though they've lost everything, God doesn't actually believe them to be either personally responsible for the SSM vote being carried, or benefiting from it by all then becoming married homosexuals. Folau seems to think rather that God is victimising one group of people for the heinous crime of believing in equal rights. 

What an a$$hole. 

I think Folau is a massive fuckhead, but the part that upsets me the most is the damage he’s done to his wife’s career. Maria (Tutaia) Folau’s career is in limbo at the moment, and it’s all because of this douche-canoe. She should retire as one of the absolute greats of our sport, but instead she might not even get a game next year because she hasn’t signed with any team. Most likely because she was waiting to see if he’s going to get a gig overseas etc. What a waste of such talent, and a sad end to an amazing career. 

[HereComesTreble]

"Only we have the truth," the Folaus said.

Geez, could they be anymore clique culty?

[bird]

3 hours ago, amster said:

I think Folau is a massive fuckhead, but the part that upsets me the most is the damage he’s done to his wife’s career. Maria (Tutaia) Folau’s career is in limbo at the moment, and it’s all because of this douche-canoe. She should retire as one of the absolute greats of our sport, but instead she might not even get a game next year because she hasn’t signed with any team. Most likely because she was waiting to see if he’s going to get a gig overseas etc. What a waste of such talent, and a sad end to an amazing career. 

I'm a South African living in England (with my two oldest English kids being big netball fans and players) so I have no reason at all to support New Zealand but watching her play and shoot in the recent world cup really made me cheer them on. Quietly! Ha! Beautiful player. I was so impressed with her. I agree with you that it is very sad. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

She must be ok with his shitty beliefs if she chose to marry him. I can’t feel that badly for her. 

[Katzchen24]

8 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

She must be ok with his shitty beliefs if she chose to marry him. I can’t feel that badly for her. 

 

12 hours ago, amster said:

I think Folau is a massive fuckhead, but the part that upsets me the most is the damage he’s done to his wife’s career. Maria (Tutaia) Folau’s career is in limbo at the moment, and it’s all because of this douche-canoe. She should retire as one of the absolute greats of our sport, but instead she might not even get a game next year because she hasn’t signed with any team. Most likely because she was waiting to see if he’s going to get a gig overseas etc. What a waste of such talent, and a sad end to an amazing career. 

I  agree with a little bit from column A and a little bit from column B here. She may have agreed with his horrible beliefs, but I think that as long as she keeps her mouth shut about them in public she's sadly entitled to think what she wants. For her career to be ruined because her husband can't stop spouting evil fundie rhetoric is unfair.

Then again, being who they are, I'm guessing there's no way he'd travel to support her career. If he can't be a famous sports figure, then she won't be allowed to be one either. Yay the Christian patriarchy.

 

[FluffySnowball]

I knew he was a a piece of... something... but I wasn’t aware he is so deep in what seems like his daddy’s personal cult. That’s really insane and unfortunately proves that being exposed to less fanatic beliefs doesn’t always result in a fundy starting to see things reasonably. 

[Whydon'ttheyspeakintongues]

I feel sad when I think of a young boy or girl sitting in that church who is at that beginning stage of puberty when you first start to find other people attractive and they are made to feel that there is something wrong with them because they are attracted to  someone of the same gender.  I can't imagine how hard that would be - being told that god burnt down houses because of how you are feeling!  All I can hope is that they somehow get through it and understand there is a world of kindness and acceptance outside of the hatred of the church.

[Glasgowghirl]

As I said previously on the thread I had no sympathy for him, he chose to keep making those statements knowing that it would likely alienate and anger people. He could have kept his beliefs to himself. He isn't a victim here and isn't being persecuted. 

My teams current manager has had bombs posted to him in the mail because he was Catholic and from Northern Ireland and people objected to him playing for the team and then managing them twice, that is being persecuted or the black footballer's that played for England a few weeks ago and received torrent of abuse against Bulgaria, that is being persecuted. Or when former Welsh Rugby player Gareth Thomas, who came out a decade ago, was forced to publicly admit he had HIV after the press had hounded him and even told his parents about him having HIV before he had the chance to himself, that is persecution. Being a bigot that is a part of cult is not. 

 

[Katzchen24]

I wasn't too sure where to put this, but it certainly falls under the heading of public sporting figures having nasty beliefs but still being lauded and applauded. 

It's really hard when someone who has achieved so much in sport for Australia, but turns out to have really hateful Christian beliefs, is celebrated. Margaret Court may have been a wonderful tennis player, and an icon and example for women in tennis in Australia, but I really don't like this. How do you reconcile the two things?

Margaret Court recognised at Australian Open for grand slam

 

 

[Ozlsn]

@Katzchen24 it is difficult, not least because her point that she and other women who achieved a great deal in the early days of tennis and other sports have been under-recognised compared to male athletes is a valid one. I think it is good that pretty much every news report I've seen has named her as a bigot - and I suspect the arena may end up being renamed down the track. If nothing else she has focused a lot of attention on the proposed religious discrimination bill - and I don't think people have come away in favour of that bill. Personally though I would have prefered they honoured someone else - Evonne Goolagong Cawley would have been a better choice.