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John David & Abbie 8: Schrodinger No More, Baby Passenger Onboard


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14 minutes ago, FaithAndReason said:

Abbie having twins has nothing to do with JD being a twin or the Duggars. It has to do with her own genes and her side of the family. If she has twins in her family then she might also have twins.

This. Also twins don't usually skip a generation, but can be passed from father to daughter. If John has the gene for hyperovulation inherited from Michelle (still sorta doubtful on that one), he can pass it on to a daughter. But Abbie's ability to have twins has nothing to do with John's. She might be more likely to have twins because she has twin sisters (that appear fraternal), but I think she would already know, unless their only ultrasound is to find out the gender sex. 

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Abbie’s sisters are twins, but I don’t know if they are fraternal or identical.

Fraternal twins: your ovaries produced two eggs this cycle instead of two, so both could be fertilized, develop, and have their own placenta. This might have happened because 1) you have the gene* for hyperovulation, 2) you were medically stimulated to hyperovulate with assisted technology, or 3) it just happens sometimes, especially as you toward the end of your fertile life.

Identical twins: your ovaries produced one egg and it was fertilized. Approximately 4-12 days later, the fertilized zygote or blastocyst spontaneously split completely and then each identical zygote/blast kept on with its cellular replication and eventually you find out its twins. They may share the same sac and placenta if the split happened early or have their own if it was late. Every conception has this chance and having identical twins in your family means nothing for your chance.

*genes don’t skip generations, but your grandma could have had boy fraternal twins and then your dad could have had the hyperovulation gene on his X chromosome which he then passed you. Abbie is about 2x more likely to have frat twins if her sisters are frat twins.

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Abbie’s sisters look identical. I know looks can be deceiving. But if I were to guess, I would say her sisters are identical. 

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7 hours ago, They call me madre said:

Usually twins skip a generation so I doubt that the probability of Abbie having twins because JD is a twin is low or not at all.  

JD‘s twin status will do nothing in their case.

Identical twins are completely random and are nothing that can be genetically inherited. Some families just hit this jackpot, some even several times. But it’s completely coincidental. 

Fraternal twins occur when a woman ovulates more than one egg. Hyperovulation can be genetically inherited. But if there aren’t any genetic markers on Abbie’s side of the family it would also be completely coincidental.

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GOD
At some point one of the Duggar boys will have to give a son a first name starting with "G", and a middle name starting with "O" (preferably Odin, Norse god) so the initials would be GOD. I googled lists of gods and did not find one that started with a "G", so any ol' G-name would have to do. Come to think of it, Jill could do it, too. Ooooh, or better yet, give a girl those initials... Guinevere Odette Duggar!

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2 hours ago, theotherelise said:

Abbie’s sisters are twins, but I don’t know if they are fraternal or identical.

Fraternal twins: your ovaries produced two eggs this cycle instead of two, so both could be fertilized, develop, and have their own placenta. This might have happened because ...

Identical twins: your ovaries produced one egg and it was fertilized. Approximately 4-12 days later, the fertilized zygote or blastocyst spontaneously split completely and then each identical zygote/blast kept on with its cellular replication and eventually you find out its twins. They may share the same sac and placenta if the split happened early or have their own if it was late...

Curious - what do you do? My understanding of OB and conception is that the only true identical twins are monochorionic/monoamniotic, with the embryo split 8-12d after conception. and that any twins that weren't mo/mo (2 ova 2 sperm, or 1 zygote split < 3d to be di/di, or 1 zygote split 3-8d to be mo/di) have enough distinct replications that their genes are different. Though, di/di twins that began as one zygote are obviously the same sex, if fraternal.

Also, I think you got a little mixed up, mo/mo twins are the ones that split later so they share a sac&placenta, if they split earlier they each get their own :P  

Honestly AG's twin sisters look *super* *super* similar with just a few distinct physical differences that I think (from being a super creeper lol) make them easy to tell apart. Mostly looking at the jaw/chin/smile aspect. 

Edited by ihaveanexamintwodays
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@ihaveanexamintwodays - I have zero medical training if that’s what you’re asking! I’ve just read a lot about conception over two and half years of infertility. Also when I started IVF, I was really curious about when identical twins split because I really don’t want twins and also because I thought it would be super cool if they cool observe the split in the embryology lab. But I actually know someone who transferred two 5 day embryos and then ended up with identical twins and a fraternal triplet. So I kept looking into it and of course they can’t really determine the exact day it happens on. My 4-12 days was just a ballpark number to try and dispel this whole twin mystique that people get really obsessed with. 

As for whether they are genetically identical if the split happens earlier in the process, I have no idea. And while they might technically call those later split, single ovum twins fraternal, for the purposes of “twins run in the family,” it would not be helpful to include those in the count. I guess they’d have no way of knowing though since most people don’t have an US until 6-10 weeks, so two sacs might be assumed to be from two ovum. 

It’s all a little abstract for me considering how monitored my attempts at conception have been! I know that they transferred one embryo in me on the 26th, so if I end up pregnant and there are two sacs, it means that embryo split. Idk it is super weird. All their genetic material from my side would be identical? Half identical? 

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On 8/1/2019 at 11:59 AM, Jana814 said:

Congratulations to them! 

Is another Duggar breeding that big of an achievement? 

On 8/1/2019 at 5:13 PM, tabitha2 said:

If she can’t and won’t do that for herself The hell you think she would teach her kids that.  Anyway. She chose to give up Her employment to get married. I don’t feel bad for her one bit.

I do. Because she wasn't raised to have a choice. She was indoctrinated to believe that being a breeder and house worker and helpmeet is what she was designed for.  So despite loving her job she had no real choice but to give it up for the eventual doldrums of household drudgery. 

Only the rare and super unique and strong people are able to turn their backs on all their friends and family and religion and culture to continue to do what they love.  

Edited by amendgitan
Typo
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On 8/2/2019 at 4:59 AM, Alice in Fundieland said:

Thanks for that. I wonder why or if these people are always that excited to have a "little one" in their house as they express. I mean they're inundated with babies. It's like a flood. It never stops. Is it that exciting after a while? They are raised surrounded by them and it's never-ending. 

How does it remain so exciting? Or is that just the script these folks are given as a reaction to "God's blessings" and to reaffirm how important "life" and babies are? 

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We all have a choice. Every single minute we make choices big or small . We may not like the results of the choice, it may be painful or not the best or indeed it may be a wonderful and wise decision but we have to be then live with the results. That’s the kicker.

Edited by tabitha2
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Because there is a difference between coming from a large family and starting your own family. I don’t particularly like them, but I’m not confused or suspicious of their excitement. 

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27 minutes ago, amendgitan said:

How is my last post "confusing? Sometimes this feels more like a Duggar fan page. 

Someone being confused by your post does not mean they’re a fan of the Duggars. 

I’m guessing the confused emoji was used since this will be their first baby, not umpteenth. Having many nieces and nephews wouldn’t take away from the excitement of having their own first.

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If anything, it would make you more excited, because you’ve seen the joy children can bring and are excited to have your own slice of the pie. 

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45 minutes ago, amendgitan said:

How is my last post "confusing? Sometimes this feels more like a Duggar fan page. 

Don’t worry about individual reactions your posts get. There are thousands of people on this forum. If 30 of them react negatively to a post you make, you might want to reflect on why, but if one of two of them think your post is confusing, ‘wtf’, worthy of an F-U, or some other reaction you don’t understand, it’s essentially meaningless. 

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I had a look at Abbie’s twin sisters in wayback machine at their blog at at 10burnetts.com and they look quite similar, but not completely alike. Carinna has slightly different features from Maggie. I guess the jury is still out on that one. 

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For the parents, yes, I’m sure they are excited each time. But for JB & Michelle? Not a bit. Yes, I’m sure they’re excited to be able to say “we have 1,297 grandchildren!!!” But it’s not possible for them to get to know each of their grandchildren in a “grandparent-y” kind of way, if that makes sense. They have too many to get to know well. Yes, they probably know a few well*, but there’s no way their grandkids will have the same relationship with them as Mary did with Amy, imo.

* “Well” in the sense that they see them frequently, not “well” in the Grandma Mary way. They aren’t even able to know their own kids well, no chance they’d somehow figure it out with their umteen+counting grands. 

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17 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

Don’t worry about individual reactions your posts get. There are thousands of people on this forum. If 30 of them react negatively to a post you make, you might want to reflect on why, but if one of two of them think your post is confusing, ‘wtf’, worthy of an F-U, or some other reaction you don’t understand, it’s essentially meaningless. 

Also, some of the expression emojis are difficult to tell apart. I see labels for them on one of my devices, but not the other.

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3 hours ago, amendgitan said:

Is another Duggar breeding that big of an achievement? 

I do. Because she wasn't raised to have a choice. She was indoctrinated to believe that being a breeder and house worker and helpmeet is what she was designed for.  So despite loving her job she had no real choice but to give it up for the eventual doldrums of household drudgery. 

Only the rare and super unique and strong people are able to turn their backs on all their friends and family and religion and culture to continue to do what they love.  

Yes! My super snarky initial reaction to this news was who cares. Even the Duggars don’t care about each individual addition beyond the # that they can boast about. They know  nada about and care little for each individual person.

Edited by SassyPants
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The Duggars seem especially into breeding and their lifestyle ($$s) has changed substantially because of it.

I can also see a couple being excited to have a child.

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21 hours ago, Exposedknees said:

Charlie Foxtrot Duggar??

 

I vote for this. Not only for ClusterFuck but because on Mumsnet it's the acronym for Cheeky Fucker - like someone taking advantage of a situation or outstaying their welcome - which I think the Duggars probably count as. 

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My twins are fraternal. My tubes were blocked, they ran an HSG flush (dear LORD that hurt)---my ovaries were like a prison break: "FREEDOM! HEAD FOR THE HILLS!"

Both cannons fired, and boom---fraternal squids presently twincubating.
Doc said if it had been one egg that split, it would have been identical.

Twins don't have to "skip" a generation---a.i. my family. It skips around on my dad's side, but with Mom (to my knowledge): great-granny was a twin, she had a couple of twin sets herself (13 kids total, yeesh)--my Granny didn't have twins but a few of her siblings did, couple of my mom's siblings had twins, several of my cousins have twins, and now I have our little set, hence why we are BOTH getting fixed after they are born. It would be our luck of the draw that a vasectomy or tubal would reverse on us, so we're not taking any chances of another set of multiples. I'm in my 30s, which increases odds of firing out multiples because (as was quoted on 'Parks & Rec' when Leslie learned she was having triplets), the old egg store is having a Going Out of Business sale. 

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Prefacing that I know clothing has no bearing on their beliefs, but I saw that Abbie was tagged in a friend’s Instagram story and in the picture she was wearing a tank top and leggings. Just thought it was interesting because we hadn’t seen her in anything like that that I remember. Of course, the tank says “#momlife” with a heart over her stomach. I don’t get why you need to announce your status in life on a T-shirt. The mommy and wifey shirts really get under my skin. 

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There’s a celebrity who named their kid Pilot Inspektor and I truly thought there would only be one of them in the world. Unless your kid goes to school with Jason Lee’s kid!?



Nope little old New Zealand!
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On 8/2/2019 at 6:15 AM, Alice in Fundieland said:

They went to an urgent care facility because Abbie wasn’t feeling well and they did a pregnancy test which obviously was positive. Abbie said she wanted to cry out of shock and John shared it wasn’t the way she planned to find out. 

SHOCKED, Abbie was shocked. Me too. I mean, I know they’re in a fertility cult and having sex and not preventing and surrounded by other people birthing babies, but to think they could actually be PREGNANT, wow! You could knock me over with a feather.

I doubt it’s twins, they’d know and have announced that too by now.

Edited because I’ve now caught up on the rest of the thread and saw the stuff about irregular cycles. That’s a fair point. 

Are Jed and Jer fraternal?

Edited by Smee
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