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Joy & Austin 27 - Joy and Austin lost baby Annabell, TRIGGER WARNING miscarriage and stillbirth


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4 minutes ago, tabitha2 said:

He looks perfectly healthy  to me. He has some flesh from enjoying his food which to me is more attractive than a man who looks like he will blow away in a strong wind. 

I also thinks he looks fine. I think he is losing his adolescence look and becoming more of a  man. Those shoes though.... Hideous I can snark all over them.  

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36 minutes ago, kiwi said:

Hes also packed on the pounds in two years since their wedding pics
 

Well that’s just unnecessary. I haven’t been on FJ all that long, but I swear this is the 4th or 5th thread recently that has prompted an argument about fat shaming and unrealistic body expectations. Am I being overly sensitive or is it everywhere at the moment?

 

I can’t tell if the shoes REALLY need cleaning or if they’re meant to look like that. They’re the wrong choice for a wedding, definitely!

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Not trying to derail, but are the ads listening to me!?! I was on page 5 and discussing a trip we are taking with my husband who is sitting next to me. Boom page 6 ads for the ferry line we could take. I was not searching any of this on my comp. Kinda creepy.

To add to the actual topic: Joy's big babies and possible need for multiple C-sections make me really scared. I am seriously afraid she will be the one who dies from all this birth as many as you can nonsense they have pounded into her. :(

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5 hours ago, Smee said:

Well that’s just unnecessary. I haven’t been on FJ all that long, but I swear this is the 4th or 5th thread recently that has prompted an argument about fat shaming and unrealistic body expectations. Am I being overly sensitive or is it everywhere at the moment?

 

I can’t tell if the shoes REALLY need cleaning or if they’re meant to look like that. They’re the wrong choice for a wedding, definitely!

If so, I'm also being overly sensitive about men who look like they'll "blow away in the wind," as if they've somehow chosen that and must be therefore judged attractive or not based on it. 

Personally, I completely think it's okay to notice someone's gained or lost weight, actually. But there are ways and ways. 

As to those shoes, they are filthy. Even if they were appropriate relative to everyone else around him on that day, they suggest he does not care enough about the people putting on the event he's attending to even perform some basic personal maintenance. 

Edited by backyard sylph
I wanted to say something else.
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@StraightOuttaArkansas it is way more easy that the just use geotag you know they just assume that If you are in area near a train station or something like that, that you are on a trip and you could be interest in other activities around there. Or at least this is how it happen to me a couple of time, like I get house related announce since I often do rent research, since I manage a couple of vacancy house for work. Or I get animal videos on fb since I post about my dog and cats (hope this make sense I'm a bit tired since is a crappy day here cold and rainy)

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1 hour ago, StraightOuttaArkansas said:

Not trying to derail, but are the ads listening to me!?! I was on page 5 and discussing a trip we are taking with my husband who is sitting next to me. Boom page 6 ads for the ferry line we could take. I was not searching any of this on my comp. Kinda creepy

 I had the same happen to me a couple of times during the last year or so and yes, I do find it creepy.

Once, in H&M, I strolled through the aisles and checked out some clothing items for dogs that I then talked about with the friend I had with me. (Some of you might know that while I don’t have a dog yet, I’d love to get one - or two - in the future). The same day, I get an advert for the SAME canine clothing item I held and looked at in the shop. 

Another time, I told my grandma on the landline about hair styles I like (but had never googled) and as soon as I open my mobile, amazon advertises products and supplies needed for the very styles I had described. What the hell. 

A part of me is like “WATCH OUT! YOUR PHONE IS LISTENING TO EVERYTHING YOU SAY!!”, and the other part is “don’t be ridiculous, that’s a coincidence, get on with your day” so I really don’t know. Feels weird though. 

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7 hours ago, kiwi said:

No mention of Austins butt ugly shoes?? A combo of old farm shoes and slippers emoji23.png #buyusedsavethedifference

Hes also packed on the pounds in two years since their wedding pics

73cedf027857a9ecc09ec0a1f718e0de.jpg

Can we not with snark about weight? There are so many better things to criticize him for and weight is something not everyone can control, something anyone with a chronic disease like Hypothyroidism or PCOS can tell you. 

But yeah, those shoes sure are something. They’re as ugly as their beliefs are.

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1 hour ago, StraightOuttaArkansas said:

Not trying to derail, but are the ads listening to me!?! I was on page 5 and discussing a trip we are taking with my husband who is sitting next to me. Boom page 6 ads for the ferry line we could take. I was not searching any of this on my comp. Kinda creepy.

To add to the actual topic: Joy's big babies and possible need for multiple C-sections make me really scared. I am seriously afraid she will be the one who dies from all this birth as many as you can nonsense they have pounded into her. :(

https://www.news.com.au/technology/home-entertainment/these-apps-and-devices-could-be-listening-to-your-private-chats/news-story/7258fedcbe6103ca41aaf66bb4b28239

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15 minutes ago, FluffySnowball said:

 I had the same happen to me a couple of times during the last year or so and yes, I do find it creepy.

Once, in H&M, I strolled through the aisles and checked out some clothing items for dogs that I then talked about with the friend I had with me. (Some of you might know that while I don’t have a dog yet, I’d love to get one - or two - in the future). The same day, I get an advert for the SAME canine clothing item I held and looked at in the shop. 

Another time, I told my grandma on the landline about hair styles I like (but had never googled) and as soon as I open my mobile, amazon advertises products and supplies needed for the very styles I had described. What the hell. 

A part of me is like “WATCH OUT! YOUR PHONE IS LISTENING TO EVERYTHING YOU SAY!!”, and the other part is “don’t be ridiculous, that’s a coincidence, get on with your day” so I really don’t know. Feels weird though. 

Your phone is listening to you.  Particularly if you haven't turned off various settings.  Interestingly Google apparently has samples of confidential meetings in their databases somewhere.

For the store they can track you navigating around the store.  From memory it was via wifi (not you necessarily connected to it, but by the strength of the signals to the access points it has that 'there is this potential wifi available here' touching base) but it could be via the internet connection I can't remember.

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15 hours ago, viii said:

I think Austin cares for his wife, the best that he knows how to, and I think they would find a way to prevent pregnancy if it ever got to that stage. 

I am sure that we won’t see any of the 2nd Gen continuing to pop out babies if their life is really in danger. There might be one close call before God miraculously closes their womb. They will never tell if they do something to help god with it though and as long as they don’t lie and say it is all god’s doing I don’t think that’s to criticise.

Can someone enlighten me- why are we referring to six children - I guess as max if she keeps having c-sections? I mean in the end it depends on her body alone how many she can have. Maybe the scar tissue heals too bad and she has to stop at two, maybe it makes it more complicated for the egg to implant, maybe she heals fantastic and goes on and has nine. So where does the six come from? Is it a general recommendation? In my country it’s still three I think and if you keep going you will be monitored more closely. But I think the number is more and more left out of recommendations as it’s just too individual.

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Silly meandering thoughts, that pic of Jana holding Gideon, he is sucking his thumb, this isn't the 1st photo I've seen of him with his thumb in his mouth. It's struck me I don't think we've seen any photos of any other Duggerlings sucking their thumbs, or a binky/dummy/pacifier. Maybe when they were newborns, but I certainly don't recall seeing any of them with one anywhere near or after the age of 1. 

I wonder why that is? I had one binky baby and one who didn't want that or her thumb, my friends 3 kids were all horrible thumb suckers who had to have cages put on the roof of their mouths around Kindergarten to get them to break the habit and all had deformed jaws by then. 

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Genuine question here. Let's say that Joy keeps getting pregnant, even after she's exceeded the recommendations for the number of c-sections she ideally she should get. It's not as though a physician is going to turn her away, right? I mean, the baby needs to be delivered somehow. I can see her being referred to a high-risk OBGYN in that instance, but it essentially seems as though the number of children she has is up to her, regardless of risk. She has to be delivered if she gets pregnant and carries to term.

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As i have understand it you are right @ViolaSebastian,I think that many doctor could refuse her as a patient and refer her to some specific hospital/ObGyng and clear thinks from the start as "the chance that thinks go wrong are pretty high I will do my best, but is up to you" in avoiding any possible law suite from the family if things go south

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27 minutes ago, ViolaSebastian said:

Genuine question here. Let's say that Joy keeps getting pregnant, even after she's exceeded the recommendations for the number of c-sections she ideally she should get. It's not as though a physician is going to turn her away, right? I mean, the baby needs to be delivered somehow. I can see her being referred to a high-risk OBGYN in that instance, but it essentially seems as though the number of children she has is up to her, regardless of risk. She has to be delivered if she gets pregnant and carries to term.

If you remember back to one of the lost girls births, Michelle had a hell of a time finding a doctor that would take her on as a patient, because she was so high risk. One finally acquiesced, but I'm sure JB & M had to sign a shit ton of wavers and stuff that said  this pregnancy was continuing AMA, patient knows risks and is taking them. I'm sure there are a lot of OBs that have this type of thing for all the nut job anti choicers out there, who get knocked up with 5/6/7 babies at once, via fertility drugs, and won't do selective reduction to a non litter of babies at once. 

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On 5/25/2019 at 8:39 AM, JillyO said:

Isn't that literally exactly the same thing Joy once said? Like word-for-word? Is that what they bonded over, and why they're now possibly the most zealous 2nd geners of them all?

Found it. It was at Joe and Kendra's wedding, when she was thanking Joe and telling him what a great brother he was to her. She said "Just through my teen years, I think I was having a really hard time, just like, taking my parents’ faith as my own, and you really befriended me as an older brother."

Yeah, this is a very common Christian trope, not just in fundy-world, but in broader evangelical churches as well. It's another form of testimony-crafting for kids that didn't really rebel or do anything seriously wrong. If you can't say you were "saved from sex, drugs, and rock & roll" you can at least say: I only went to church because my parents did, I didn't really care about God, but then [often through some emotional catalyst like a youth retreat] I was convicted and made my own faith declaration, and now Whoa Nellie I'm sold out for Jesus my own self".

Christians in these circles have to have a testimony of some kind, and it has to include something "bad" that you were saved from. If you were a good kid that followed the Christian path from earliest childhood, what else are you going to say?

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@ViolaSebastian  That would mean that Joy would have to actually go to a doctor. We haven't seen that yet, we've seen her consulting with a midwife and then when she went for her C-Section, she got whatever doctor was there at the time. I would like to think that she would consult with a doctor this go around, but again, that would require thinking and Joy/Austin don't seem to think. 

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6 minutes ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

If you remember back to one of the lost girls births, Michelle had a hell of a time finding a doctor that would take her on as a patient, because she was so high risk. One finally acquiesced, but I'm sure JB & M had to sign a shit ton of wavers and stuff that said  this pregnancy was continuing AMA, patient knows risks and is taking them. I'm sure there are a lot of OBs that have this type of thing for all the nut job anti choicers out there, who get knocked up with 5/6/7 babies at once, via fertility drugs, and won't do selective reduction to a non litter of babies at once. 

And that kind of care is EXPENSIVE.  Which, given the track record of fundies and insurance, may be an issue for Austin and Joy.  

Michelle and Kelly had the advantage of being in the public eye, financially established, and on the gravy train when they had their high-risk pregnancies.  But Austin and Joy may hit that much sooner, before they have the financial ability to bear the cost easily, and that may impact their decisions.  Eventually, they're likely going to have to choose between being QF with astronomic and ever growing medical debt or family planning.  

And considering Austin won't have a career if they don't have access to substantial capital and smart collectors can easily place liens against their investment properties, I don't think mounting medical debt is an option for them.  

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Your phone is 100% listening to you. I had my phone in my purse and stopped on the sidewalk to chat with a friend, who was headed to the travel agency to book a cruise with Norwegian Cruise Lines. I had mentioned that I had used two different cruise lines, but never Norwegian. I carried on my way and then went home. Later I was scrolling through Facebook and I kept getting ads for Norwegian Cruise Lines. It's pretty creepy. 

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@allthegoodnamesrgone wow, what an out-of-date view of people seeking fertility treatment. My husband and I opted not to move on to gonadatropin injectible IUI treatment after previous medicated IUIs had failed because we knew the goal was to get about 4 follicles (potentially eggs) and that could result in a higher-order multiple pregnancy. That treatment would have cost about $1000. Instead we saved up for several months to do IVF ($20k including genetic testing, $14k without). Then we could control how many embryos were put back. But the cost savings!

And your risk for higher-order multiples is less than 5% with an injectible IUI at my clinic. I told them I was concerned about multiples still and they brought up selective reduction. But I live in MO and my doctor said there were only a couple doctors he'd send me to if we needed to use selective reduction, both of which would require air travel and would likely be entirely out of pocket. The procedure itself is not without risks to both the woman's health and the other fetus(es). That doesn't even take into account the emotional toll of aborting a desperately wanted baby.

Unless you have been in a real position of facing that reality, you really cannot talk about women who choose to continue with higher order multiple pregnancies. Doctors need to do a better job counselling about proceeding with IUI or medicated-timed treatments when there are a lot of follicles, but it's not our place to judge women who have to make those kind of excruciating decisions. 

There are two big problems that cause higher order multiple pregnancies from fertility treatments: 1) OBGYNs (not Reproductive Endocrinologists) hand out clomid like candy but don't monitor the cycles. That's how the Sweet Home Sextuplets family ended up with their sextuplets. It doesn't even sound like they did an IUI, just an unmonitored clomid cycle. And they considered selective reduction at length but ended up deciding to go on with the pregnancy. 2) Treatments for infertility are largely not covered by insurance. Insurance companies SHOULD have an interest in reducing the higher order multiple pregnancies. Doing IVF massively helps. But many patients cannot afford IVF and so they do less expensive treatments which are more likely to produce multiples when they work but less likely to work overall. If health insurance covered IVF, a lot of these high risk pregnancies would be prevented.

Being pro-choice means supporting women's autonomy of their own bodies. They will not always make choices you, or the medical establishment, thinks is best. But outside of medical or nutritional neglect (like that woman who thought she could live on oxygen only), you cannot take that choice away from her.

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5 minutes ago, Georgiana said:

And that kind of care is EXPENSIVE.  Which, given the track record of fundies and insurance, may be an issue for Austin and Joy.  

Michelle and Kelly had the advantage of being in the public eye, financially established, and on the gravy train when they had their high-risk pregnancies.  But Austin and Joy may hit that much sooner, before they have the financial ability to bear the cost easily, and that may impact their decisions.  Eventually, they're likely going to have to choose between being QF with astronomic and ever growing medical debt or family planning.  

And considering Austin won't have a career if they don't have access to substantial capital and smart collectors can easily place liens against their investment properties, I don't think mounting medical debt is an option for them.  

Imagine how much fundies would love countries with free universal health care. All dem babies for free. No not you, you unmarried heathen, don’t terminate though....

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28 minutes ago, theotherelise said:

@allthegoodnamesrgone wow, what an out-of-date view of people seeking fertility treatment. My husband and I opted not to move on to gonadatropin injectible IUI treatment after previous medicated IUIs had failed because we knew the goal was to get about 4 follicles (potentially eggs) and that could result in a higher-order multiple pregnancy. That treatment would have cost about $1000. Instead we saved up for several months to do IVF ($20k including genetic testing, $14k without). Then we could control how many embryos were put back. But the cost savings!

And your risk for higher-order multiples is less than 5% with an injectible IUI at my clinic. I told them I was concerned about multiples still and they brought up selective reduction. But I live in MO and my doctor said there were only a couple doctors he'd send me to if we needed to use selective reduction, both of which would require air travel and would likely be entirely out of pocket. The procedure itself is not without risks to both the woman's health and the other fetus(es). That doesn't even take into account the emotional toll of aborting a desperately wanted baby.

Unless you have been in a real position of facing that reality, you really cannot talk about women who choose to continue with higher order multiple pregnancies. Doctors need to do a better job counselling about proceeding with IUI or medicated-timed treatments when there are a lot of follicles, but it's not our place to judge women who have to make those kind of excruciating decisions. 

There are two big problems that cause higher order multiple pregnancies from fertility treatments: 1) OBGYNs (not Reproductive Endocrinologists) hand out clomid like candy but don't monitor the cycles. That's how the Sweet Home Sextuplets family ended up with their sextuplets. It doesn't even sound like they did an IUI, just an unmonitored clomid cycle. And they considered selective reduction at length but ended up deciding to go on with the pregnancy. 2) Treatments for infertility are largely not covered by insurance. Insurance companies SHOULD have an interest in reducing the higher order multiple pregnancies. Doing IVF massively helps. But many patients cannot afford IVF and so they do less expensive treatments which are more likely to produce multiples when they work but less likely to work overall. If health insurance covered IVF, a lot of these high risk pregnancies would be prevented.

Being pro-choice means supporting women's autonomy of their own bodies. They will not always make choices you, or the medical establishment, thinks is best. But outside of medical or nutritional neglect (like that woman who thought she could live on oxygen only), you cannot take that choice away from her.

In no way did a say or even imply that EVERYONE who has fertility treatments is irresponsible. I simply stated, for those crazy people who WON'T follow doctors suggestions, and they are still out there, TLC has yet ANOTHER show about a family that had sextuplets, after already having 3 kids.  

Sorry, not sorry women were NOT meant to carry 5 6 7 8 9 babies at once, if we were we'd look like all the other mammals, with teats up and down our torso. Have a seat, just because I didn't sing 'praise cheesus' to your pet cause doesn't mean I'm bashing it.  I'm merely pointing out that their assholes in every group out there, I was referring to them, not responsible sane folks. 

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1 minute ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

In no way did a say or even imply that EVERYONE who has fertility treatments is irresponsible. I simply stated, for those crazy people who WON'T follow doctors suggestions, and they are still out there, TLC has yet ANOTHER show about a family that had sextuplets, after already having 3 kids.  

Sorry, not sorry women were NOT meant to carry 5 6 7 8 9 babies at once, if we were we'd look like all the other mammals, with teats up and down our torso. Have a seat, just because I didn't sing 'praise cheesus' to your pet cause doesn't mean I'm bashing it.  I'm merely pointing out that their assholes in every group out there, I was referring to them, not responsible sane folks. 

Lol it's not my "pet cause" it's my life. I mean, feel free to remain ignorant if you want, but my post clearly explained that women who end up facing a choice of selective reduction when they have higher order multiple pregnancies are not so simply written off. As I said, the TLC woman who had the sextuplets after having three kids was only on a timed intercourse clomid cycle and strongly considered selective reduction. She didn't try and get knocked up with umpteen kids. Saying she's crazy for not making the choice you would (esp. after pursuing a totally reasonable fertility treatment with extremely low odds of higher order multiples) is the same thing as saying a 35 year old married woman of means who chooses to get an abortion is crazy. 

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There's no rule against comments about Duggars gaining or losing weight.   Why would this be someone's pet cause to call out posters comments....because you have a personal issue with weight so therefore this whole board can't discuss their weight?    WTH.

 

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I was looking at Facebook the other day while talking to my husband and said “you and one other person are my only mutual Facebook friends with X.” He said, “Is it Y?” I said “I don’t know her.” Facebook was all “Here she is! Top of X’s friends list!” 

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16 minutes ago, PVMom said:

There's no rule against comments about Duggars gaining or losing weight.   Why would this be someone's pet cause to call out posters comments....because you have a personal issue with weight so therefore this whole board can't discuss their weight?    WTH.

 

Looking at your posting history you clearly have a pet cause with this issue.

WTF, indeed.

I have never seen so many downvotes devoted to the cause of one poster's crusade to call out Duggar weight gain.

Well done you.

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