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Josh, Anna, the M' kids Part 20: Girl Needs Some Serious Therapy


HerNameIsBuffy

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7 minutes ago, JordynDarby5 said:

No, in that interview they said they did everything 100% correct. Which no they did everything 100% wrong. The first time they found out about it they should have removed Josh and got him help and got his victim help. They should have never made the girls forgive him. They certainly shouldn't have accused other groups of being molesters. Or act like it was no big deal. Molestation is a big deal.

I think the one thing all of us on this thread can agree on is that Michelle and Jim-Bob completely, fantastically fucked up their handling of the situation. 

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I'm just going to drop my two cents on Josh based on my work experience alone. I work with juveniles who have committed crimes, that includes sexual crimes. We currently have a dozen or so teenagers at our agency who have committed a sexually assaultive crime and they range in age from 10-16, all but one are male. Part of our program for them includes intensive treatment at a center designed for adolescent sexual offenders. This program is amazing because it is geared directly for them and it's super intensive. Do I believe that some of these offenders can be rehabilitated, yes I do but many not and still end up involved with the criminal justice system.

While environment does come into play in some of these cases, I don't think that's an direct issue here,  Josh fits the profile of our more dangerous offenders. The fact that it was repeated acts, and not just a one time "experimentation" is a big indicator. It's hard to say he just didn't know better when he was 15 and smart enough to try and hide it.  Also the fact that it was not just his sisters but other's outside the family is an indicator, it wasn't about a "sexual attraction" but about power and dominance and finally the fact that his victims were not a same age peer but younger and more vulnerable paints a pretty dangerous picture. This wasn't a kid who didn't listen to his girlfriend when she said no (not that that is okay in any matter) but this kid took advantage of his very much younger sisters.  Based on my experience and what we know (which is not everything) I believed Josh would have been a perp no matter what his upbringing was, it might have just been a different situation such as forced partner rape or something like that but he would have for sure committed a sexually based offense. 

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5 hours ago, Glasgowghirl said:

Agreed, while Josh has not shown any sign of offending as an adult,

 

3 hours ago, tabitha2 said:

As far as we know he has never raped anyone. 

But how would we ever know? Sadly these crimes are made behind closed doors and are really hard to detect. We don’t know what he has done as an adult but we know what he did when he was 15 and that he never got any real punishment or help for it. What did he learn? That he can do anything and be forgiven. We have no idea what he is capable of and I would not leave anyone I know, child or adult, alone with him. 

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3 hours ago, nausicaa said:

I think the one thing all of us on this thread can agree on is that Michelle and Jim-Bob completely, fantastically fucked up their handling of the situation. 

Quoted for truth.

Michelle and JB are and were terrible parents, even more so for their failure to ever admit they made a mistake (or 100).

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What always stands out to me, is that he continued even after confessing, getting caught. This wasn't a  boy who was a bit too curious about girls as his sisters said. His parents did nothing until the third? time. And those are the only ones we know about.

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6 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

What always stands out to me, is that he continued even after confessing, getting caught. This wasn't a  boy who was a bit too curious about girls as his sisters said. His parents did nothing until the third? time. And those are the only ones we know about.

I agree. His parents did nothing until he molested Joy. By that point he'd already molested Jessa, Jill, Jinger and the non-related girl. He got more and more bolder as he went along. Starting with touching while Jill and Jessa were asleep (or pretended to be asleep), then I think the same thing to the non-related girl, he molested Jinger in the laundry room, and finally Joy while she sat on his lap and in front of people.  He needed to be stopped and he wasn't until Joy. He clearly wasn't going to stop on his own. But his stupid parents did nothing until Joy. How do you absolutely nothing after the first time I don't know. That's your son who just molested someone. And that's your daughter who was just molested. How do you nothing each time afterwards that?

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I don’t often get into these discussion because it’s dicey and there’s a lot we don’t know. 

One thing I think that should be emphasized, is the role power plays in the whole Josh situation. Power dynamics (and lack of agency) is as much a part of fundie culture as sexual repression. 

IMHO, Josh wasn’t out of control with actions. He was seeking control over others with less agency than him. It was deliberate (and clearly disturbing) action. 

I hope he’s better now. 

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21 hours ago, Smee said:

Josh had NO safe, healthy places to explore his sexuality.

This simply does not lead to fingering a five year old. Please stop.

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11 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

We’ve discussed this endlessly since the news first broke and I’m kind of just tired, so I’ll leave you all to it.

Ain't this the truth. Some of these topics roll around like clockwork, no matter how much time has passed.

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9 hours ago, tabitha2 said:

Good ole Miss Madison was paid for though. They were sure not going to let him get his Fundie Freak on for free. As far as we know he has never raped anyone. 

We have no idea if Josh ended up cheating on Anna or not. His account on Ashley Madison sure shows he had the intention of having an affair but it seems the claims that he did commit adultery were a bit dodgy. (Correct me if I am wrong here... maybe I am forgetting some infos).

But even in the case his attempt to cheat did not come through. Or even if Josh has not abused younger vulnerable victims since he was stopped by his parents... (I know this is an horrible horrible horrible thought but...), I fear marital rape is also a reality in fundie mariages. ?

And I am sure that in their culture, a lot of these young women, like Anna, could never even grasps that marital rape is a real concept. Considering they are thought all their lives that they must be cheerfully available for some sweet fellowship, I bet it is hard for these young females to even understand that they CAN say no if they don't want to. 

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They can in theory say no and are expected too if they are asked to something sinful such as Watch Porn, have a threesome or S&M. Or they say they need to pray. I suppose a person like Jessa would tell Ben no and some of the Bates girls would has well. I honestly don’t know if Anna is that strong though. 

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56 minutes ago, SilverBeach said:

This simply does not lead to fingering a five year old. Please stop.

Reading that and the laundry room incident from the report made me very close to vomiting.

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21 minutes ago, luv2laugh said:

Reading that and the laundry room incident from the report made me very close to vomiting.

Some folks need to be reminded of exactly how terrible the things Josh did were. It is all vomit worthy and I am done with this round. 

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2 hours ago, Vivi_music said:

We have no idea if Josh ended up cheating on Anna or not. His account on Ashley Madison sure shows he had the intention of having an affair but it seems the claims that he did commit adultery were a bit dodgy. (Correct me if I am wrong here... maybe I am forgetting some infos).

But even in the case his attempt to cheat did not come through. Or even if Josh has not abused younger vulnerable victims since he was stopped by his parents... (I know this is an horrible horrible horrible thought but...), I fear marital rape is also a reality in fundie mariages. ?

And I am sure that in their culture, a lot of these young women, like Anna, could never even grasps that marital rape is a real concept. Considering they are thought all their lives that they must be cheerfully available for some sweet fellowship, I bet it is hard for these young females to even understand that they CAN say no if they don't want to. 

I watched parts of Steve Anderson talking about marital rape and got too angry to finish. Apparently “I gave consent at the altar” is a thing and that consent can never be rescinded. ? I don’t know that Anna would even TRY to say no or if she’d force herself. In her case, sexual abuse is almost a given result of emotional and spiritual abuse by the cult.

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10 hours ago, SilverBeach said:

Some folks need to be reminded of exactly how terrible the things Josh did were. It is all vomit worthy and I am done with this round. 

I recapped the reports a couple of years ago because people were so confused on the actual details. It was disturbing enough that I can still pretty accurately recall details even now without looking at the actual reports. I’m not looking to get into a debate with anyone about whether people are minimizing the abuse or trying to explain Josh’s actions away, but I do highly recommend people unclear on the details look through the reports - especially the victim statements - to help clarify things. They are disturbing and heartbreaking. 

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12 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

I’m not looking to get into a debate with anyone about whether people are minimizing the abuse or trying to explain Josh’s actions away

Nothing to debate, some have definitely attempted to explained his actions away. I too read the actual reports and victim statements, as difficult as it was because of the heavy redaction and repulsive content. I think it is OK for folks who won't or can't read the reports to rely on the representations of those who did. Perhaps they can stand to read your recaps.  

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If anyone is needing a refresher and looking for a desire to need a shower, here's what I could find recap-wise. If there's more, feel free to add on to it. I'm going to go kiss my babies and think about absolutely anything else now. 

 

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I still can't believe they allowed this to keep happening, and then had the audacity to blame other people for his pervertedness. Think of little 5 year old Joy, she had NO IDEA what was going on, and I'm guessing her parents made her feel it was partially her fault.  We don't even know how Jinger and Joy feel about what happened to them, they were never allowed to speak, they were just quickly married off to the 1st boy that blinked in their direction.  I still think they were sold as "damaged goods" The whole thing makes me sick. 

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41 minutes ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

I still can't believe they allowed this to keep happening, and then had the audacity to blame other people for his pervertedness. Think of little 5 year old Joy, she had NO IDEA what was going on, and I'm guessing her parents made her feel it was partially her fault.  We don't even know how Jinger and Joy feel about what happened to them, they were never allowed to speak, they were just quickly married off to the 1st boy that blinked in their direction.  I still think they were sold as "damaged goods" The whole thing makes me sick. 

Please keep in mind, Jim Bob and Michelle continued to push the "you must dress modestly or else be responsible for stirring unrighteous desires in men" line to their daughters AFTER all of this had happened. 

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56 minutes ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

  I still think they were sold as "damaged goods" The whole thing makes me sick. 

I think that’s a really unfair supposition and totally unfounded.

Josh was a predator ... there is absolutely no need to speculate like this about his victims.

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I think this issue will come up every time Anna gets pregnant. It triggers the past abuse.

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15 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

I think this issue will come up every time Anna gets pregnant. It triggers the past abuse.

I do think that’s it.  

And it’s amazing to me that Anna posts publicly about her pregnancies like it’s a normal sweet birthing for Jesus thing and has no idea how many people just see her having one more kid with a child molester.

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I have to agree with a previous poster. While JBs and Michelle's "parenting" is bullshit, and the things they teach and don't teach is outrageous, there is obviously something inside Josh that he was born with that made him do these things. As someone said, JD didn't do it, Joe didn't do it, Josiah didn't do it.....etc, etc...

 

And, I know large families, not this large!!! that live in small quarters and as far as I know, nobody has been molested. My son's BFF shared a room (with a separator) with his twin sister for years, and I am good friends with the parents, and he didn't touch her. Josh was born with something off IMO. It's like serial killers who have siblings. The serial killer and the siblings came from the same parents, raised in the same household, yet, became a serial killer while the siblings grew up to lead "normal" lives. Sometimes people are just born with something not connecting correctly in their brain. Of course I do not know these people (Duggars), personally, so, JMO.

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4 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I do think that’s it.  

And it’s amazing to me that Anna posts publicly about her pregnancies like it’s a normal sweet birthing for Jesus thing and has no idea how many people just see her having one more kid with a child molester.

She takes her cues from her father-in-law.

Just now, Nishi621 said:

I have to agree with a previous poster. While JBs and Michelle's "parenting" is bullshit, and the things they teach and don't teach is outrageous, there is obviously something inside Josh that he was born with that made him do these things. As someone said, JD didn't do it, Joe didn't do it, Josiah didn't do it.....etc, etc...

 

And, I know large families, not this large!!! that live in small quarters and as far as I know, nobody has been molested. My son's BFF shared a room (with a separator) with his twin sister for years, and I am good friends with the parents, and he didn't touch her. Josh was born with something off IMO. It's like serial killers who have siblings. The serial killer and the siblings came from the same parents, raised in the same household, yet, became a serial killer while the siblings grew up to lead "normal" lives. Sometimes people are just born with something not connecting correctly in their brain. Of course I do not know these people (Duggars), personally, so, JMO.

I often wonder what Josh saw and heard in that house in terms of his parents’ behaviors and how that affected him. Sometimes JB appears to have boundary issues. What kind of adult man dry humps his wife in public,  in front of his young adult daughter and her teenaged guy pal? Who does that? I can only imagine what he was like at home.

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11 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

She takes her cues from her father-in-law.

I often wonder what Josh saw and heard in that house in terms of his parents’ behaviors and how that affected him. Sometimes JB appears to have boundary issues. What kind of adult man dry humps his wife in public,  in front of his young adult daughter and her teenaged guy pal? Who does that? I can only imagine what he was like at home.

Whatever it was between JB and Michelle it’s not to blame for what he did.  

Our current culture of so much personal space in homes and private bedrooms is relatively new for average folks.  People raised craploads of kids in one or few room cabins sharing beds ....crowded tenements with flimsy walls.  

Its gross but people have been overheating their parents having sex since the beginning of time.

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