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HerNameIsBuffy

Josh, Anna, the M' kids Part 20 - Girl Needs Some Serious Therapy

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Bad Wolf

I would think JB's  version would be more accurate. If he could have downplayed the incident, he would.

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lizzybee
Posted (edited)

JB and Michelle have this thing they repeat over and over when Michelle tells her bulimia story. She always cries and talks about God telling her that she couldn’t go to the marriage altar without JB knowing everything about her. They use it to tell others to be completely open with their spouse about everything. If they’re to be believed then they would have had Josh tell Anna exactly what he’d done. 

So if that’s so, she probably got more than the cliff notes version. That said, if she was relying on her father to direct her steps and he said they were still good to go, which we know he obviously did, she’s wired to trust him and trust Josh. Even so, it doesn’t absolve her of anything. It might have been easy to brush it away with Godly forgiveness when their future children were hypothetical, but when she had physical children to protect as their mother, I stop feeling sorry for her or giving her a break. Her children should mean more to her than her feelings and her desires to have a certain kind of life. Her purpose should be about making sure her babies have a safe and healthy life. Her actions are thoroughly selfish at this point. 

Edited by lizzybee

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lumpentheologie

I'm so sorry for all of you who suffered childhood abuse.  I wish I could hug all the little yous too.  

Just know I think you're all amazing for surviving that, every day. 💙

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Bad Wolf

Not every child molester hurts his own kids. Some go.for neighbors or Sunday school kids, etc. Some do. I just pray that Josh does not hurt another child.

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Angelface

I don’t think that the idea that Josh may harm his own children has ever occurred to Anna. I think that she believes that because he now can satisfy his sexual desires with her everything is ok. I hope that she is right. 

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HerNameIsBuffy

My heart is broken for all of you who suffered so much and in awe at your incredible bravery.  I am so very sorry you had to endure such evil and like @lumpentheologie I want to hug all the little yous, too.

 

1 minute ago, Angelface said:

I think that she believes that because he now can satisfy his sexual desires with her everything is ok.

That wasn't enough to keep him from searching on Ashley Madison....Idk why she would think it's enough for him now.

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Italiangirl
29 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

 

That wasn't enough to keep him from searching on Ashley Madison....Idk why she would think it's enough for him now.

Because of Jesus of course! Maybe she want to believe it now after that jesus jail/camp/retirement. He said that he was sorry and ask forgiveness so now everything is ok 

Barf I'm feeling sick just writing it out

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Kelsey
1 hour ago, Bad Wolf said:

Not every child molester hurts his own kids. Some go.for neighbors or Sunday school kids, etc. Some do. I just pray that Josh does not hurt another child.

I don't think anyone is arguing that every child molester molests their own children. It's more like why take the chance.

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ViolaSebastian
11 hours ago, lizzybee said:

JB and Michelle have this thing they repeat over and over when Michelle tells her bulimia story. She always cries and talks about God telling her that she couldn’t go to the marriage altar without JB knowing everything about her. They use it to tell others to be completely open with their spouse about everything. If they’re to be believed then they would have had Josh tell Anna exactly what he’d done. 

So if that’s so, she probably got more than the cliff notes version. That said, if she was relying on her father to direct her steps and he said they were still good to go, which we know he obviously did, she’s wired to trust him and trust Josh. Even so, it doesn’t absolve her of anything. It might have been easy to brush it away with Godly forgiveness when their future children were hypothetical, but when she had physical children to protect as their mother, I stop feeling sorry for her or giving her a break. Her children should mean more to her than her feelings and her desires to have a certain kind of life. Her purpose should be about making sure her babies have a safe and healthy life. Her actions are thoroughly selfish at this point. 

I'd counter this by saying that Jim Bob and Michelle have acted hypocritically in the past. It wouldn't be a stretch to imagine that they'd lie, or at the very least not tell the full truth, to protect their eldest and arguably favored son.

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Beermeet
1 hour ago, ViolaSebastian said:

I'd counter this by saying that Jim Bob and Michelle have acted hypocritically in the past. It wouldn't be a stretch to imagine that they'd lie, or at the very least not tell the full truth, to protect their eldest and arguably favored son.

That story of her bulimia is a talking point in their neverending talks about marriage.  Funny, they don't talk about more um....difficult moments in their marriage.  Since they like to go on and on with fluff stories that benefit them. And, honestly, if in-family molestation is so common as they said, and theirs was kinda no biggie compared to others and all.....yeah, I completely believe they would hide or downplay the not so fluffy stories.  Michelle had a bout with bulimia, I don't want to down play that. Thankfully she stopped.  But she doesn't talk about the dangers of bulimia, she seems to focus on the "tell your husband everything " aspect. It fits their Gothard narrative.  Considering Gothard has that disgusting page or so of how to blame yourself ( the victim) and normalization of molestation and they said nothing in their talks ( thank god for that) , I definitely think this was something they withheld and downplayed.  That episode where they were all sitting around talking about something I forget, right before the world found out, it was very clear Ben had just found out, imo. He was pissed tf off. Idk how he kept it together.  If he had known,  I think his demeanor would be different.  

In short, I absolutely believe JB & M are capable of omitting or sugarcoating the truth. Derick reacted like someone who didn't know too. Just my opinion and observations.  Jeremy and Austin obviously knew since they met their wives post fallout.  JB &M are sneaky. 

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anjulibai
On 5/25/2019 at 10:33 PM, Smee said:

Whoever posted that IBLP thing about “why God let a 4yr old be raped”: that is the most stomach turning thing I have read in a long, long time. Fuck you, Gothard. A “moral vaccination”? Die in a hole, you disgusting turd.

What the actual fuck?! 

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ViolaSebastian

Guys, I absolutely hate to write this. It sickens me to write this, and I in no way want to come off as defending Josh Duggar and his completely reprehensible actions that are nonetheless fucking terrible and he's a goddamn monster....but I can't find any 'hard' evidence of him digitally penetration Joy-Anna. I've searched through threads and done a lot of super sketchy Googling. It appears that the "digital penetration" allegations first started coming up in the Megyn Kelly interview thread as speculation first, a poster sounding confused and mentioning penetration and someone correcting her, and then later as a couple of posters that run with that. Again, I am no fan of Turd and I think it could reasonably be believed that Jim Bob lied like the dog he is to prevent Turd from getting a rape charge. I also think there's some confusion because the report uses the term 'vagina' in a colloquial way that could also mean 'vulva.' I WELCOME being wrong here, I really do, but I just could not find any evidence beyond speculation. 

 

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Iamtheway
3 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

That wasn't enough to keep him from searching on Ashley Madison....Idk why she would think it's enough for him now.

Because Jesus?

As long as he satisfy his needs with Mr Right Hand or another willing adult and stay out of sight I don’t care what he does. If he is unfaithful to Anna that sucks for her, but she knows it has happened once and chose to stay and she will probably chose to stay again if it happens again. 

I just really, really hope he never abuses anyone again. He is so protected in their little bubble and I think it would be way to easy for him to get away with it. 

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Palimpsest
On 5/25/2019 at 10:33 PM, Smee said:

IWhoever posted that IBLP thing about “why God let a 4yr old be raped”: that is the most stomach turning thing I have read in a long, long time. Fuck you, Gothard. A “moral vaccination”? Die in a hole, you disgusting turd.

That is why I gave it a trigger warning.

3 hours ago, Bad Wolf said:

Not every child molester hurts his own kids. Some go.for neighbors or Sunday school kids, etc. Some do. I just pray that Josh does not hurt another child.

Again, not every adolescent child molester grows up to molest children.  They are not necessarily pedophiles (sexually attracted to prepubescent children), or hebephiles (attracted children at the cusp of puberty), ephebophiles (attracted to pubescent teens) and so on.     

Not that I would ever want Josh around any small children or adolescent girls unsupervised, but the Ashley Madison episode implies that it is adults he finds sexually attractive these days.

But if you want an example of a high risk of re-offending, dyed in the wool, pedophile who has been protected and enabled by his church for years, I give you TRIGGER WARNING! Steven Sitler. 

http://www.moscowid.net/2017/08/12/steven-sitler-update-the-house-that-wilson-built/

30 minutes ago, ViolaSebastian said:

Guys, I absolutely hate to write this. It sickens me to write this, and I in no way want to come off as defending Josh Duggar and his completely reprehensible actions that are nonetheless fucking terrible and he's a goddamn monster....but I can't find any 'hard' evidence of him digitally penetration Joy-Anna.

Neither can I.  And it is not defending Josh Duggar to want the extent of his crimes to be reported and discussed accurately.  For the sakes of his victims. 

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Beermeet

One of the things that stuck out with Josh's Ashley Madison account ,to me, was his list of wants or looking for or whatever it's called.  It was pretty vanilla. If I remember correctly, his age group was age appropriate.  I take this as a good sign. It was also sad because, can he not do these things with his wife? I guess it os possible he's just not attracted to her like that. Maybe the focus on conception turns him off. It would for me. Having sex to enjoy each other is a wonderful thing. If making a baby comes up every time ( Anna does seem like that to me. Not saying she is. The pride she had in showing off the bible on the bed of her honeymoon house really sticks out in my mind when thinking of her) I can totally see that being a turn off. 

She'd have to be a major prude to not bubble bath with her husband and some of the other desires he mentioned.  

And, imma vomit now. I'm having sympathy for adult Josh and Anna and discussing their private life. Gross. Like someone said previously,  I need to get back to the me who doesn't talk about stuff like that, like this or in the Rod threads where we mention and judge The Rod's appearance.  It's because of the hypocrisy and damage they do but, it can get to the best of us snarkers. 🙄

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Carm_88

I think if I were Anna, I would have waited until Josh was asleep and I would have cut his dick off. Full on Lorena Bobbit. I mean God would have forgiven me right? If he could forgive Josh for what he did. 

Every time Anna gets pregnant, we go through this cycle of who is to blame. Is it Josh? Is it JB & M? Is it IBLP? Is it all of the above? I'd go with all of the above. It all added up to a perfect storm. The end is what we have today, a family full of hypocrites who are somehow concerned with gay marriage and abortions, but have no issue with letting a child molester into their midst. People in glass houses should not throw stones. 

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VelociRapture
2 hours ago, Beermeet said:

That story of her bulimia is a talking point in their neverending talks about marriage.  Funny, they don't talk about more um....difficult moments in their marriage.  Since they like to go on and on with fluff stories that benefit them. And, honestly, if in-family molestation is so common as they said, and theirs was kinda no biggie compared to others and all.....yeah, I completely believe they would hide or downplay the not so fluffy stories.  Michelle had a bout with bulimia, I don't want to down play that. Thankfully she stopped.  But she doesn't talk about the dangers of bulimia, she seems to focus on the "tell your husband everything " aspect. It fits their Gothard narrative.  Considering Gothard has that disgusting page or so of how to blame yourself ( the victim) and normalization of molestation and they said nothing in their talks ( thank god for that) , I definitely think this was something they withheld and downplayed.  That episode where they were all sitting around talking about something I forget, right before the world found out, it was very clear Ben had just found out, imo. He was pissed tf off. Idk how he kept it together.  If he had known,  I think his demeanor would be different.  

In short, I absolutely believe JB & M are capable of omitting or sugarcoating the truth. Derick reacted like someone who didn't know too. Just my opinion and observations.  Jeremy and Austin obviously knew since they met their wives post fallout.  JB &M are sneaky. 

Austin knew the Duggars for years prior to his relationship with Joy. I wouldn’t be surprised if his family knew prior to the reports being released though because it appears to have been a widespread secret in their circles.

But yes, Derick and Ben likely didn’t know about it before hand, while Austin and Jeremy did. I can’t blame them for being angry, so long as they were angry at the right people - Jill and Jessa had every right not to want to discuss this with anyone, even their husbands.

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Beermeet
Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

Austin knew the Duggars for years prior to his relationship with Joy. I wouldn’t be surprised if his family knew prior to the reports being released though because it appears to have been a widespread secret in their circles.

But yes, Derick and Ben likely didn’t know about it before hand, while Austin and Jeremy did. I can’t blame them for being angry, so long as they were angry at the right people - Jill and Jessa had every right not to want to discuss this with anyone, even their husbands.

I was thinking the same about Austin.  Maybe not specifically who but, he knew something had happened.  

The 2nd worse part of this was it came out and it was not the girls ' choice. That was the second time they were violated. Not ok.  I felt that Ben wanted to punch Josh right then and there but held back out of respect for his wife's wishes. I can't even read Derick but it also seems he has Jill's back and lowkey/highkey hates JB &M. I really don't get the vibe they are angry at their wives and I love that. That is as it should be, imo. 

Edited by Beermeet
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nausicaa
1 hour ago, Beermeet said:

Maybe the focus on conception turns him off. It would for me. Having sex to enjoy each other is a wonderful thing. If making a baby comes up every time ( Anna does seem like that to me. Not saying she is. The pride she had in showing off the bible on the bed of her honeymoon house really sticks out in my mind when thinking of her) I can totally see that being a turn off. 

She'd have to be a major prude to not bubble bath with her husband and some of the other desires he mentioned.  

He could also be your run of the mill douche-y husband with a wandering eye who just doesn't do monogamy very well. Some people just need something new to feel turned on, no matter how attractive or adventurous their current partner is. 

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Beermeet
Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, nausicaa said:

He could also be your run of the mill douche-y husband with a wandering eye who just doesn't do monogamy very well. Some people just need something new to feel turned on, no matter how attractive or adventurous their current partner is. 

Absolutely.  Or could also be the lack of sowing one's wild oats before setting down.  My husband and I are very grateful that when we met at 24, we had been sowing. Most couples we know who married their one and only HS sweetheart are having issues with that. Which, I do find normal.  I also know a few who feel no need and they are happy and content.  For people like my husband and I, it was important for us to kiss some frogs, have some fun and learn what we truly wanted in a life partner.  I met my soulmate but whose to say we even would've met at all without our previous experiences?!  

Following a script on love is ridiculous.  And, yeah, he may have been or is just that douche. It happens. 

Edited by Beermeet

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Smee
2 hours ago, ViolaSebastian said:

Guys, I absolutely hate to write this. It sickens me to write this, and I in no way want to come off as defending Josh Duggar and his completely reprehensible actions that are nonetheless fucking terrible and he's a goddamn monster....but I can't find any 'hard' evidence of him digitally penetration Joy-Anna. I've searched through threads and done a lot of super sketchy Googling. It appears that the "digital penetration" allegations first started coming up in the Megyn Kelly interview thread as speculation first, a poster sounding confused and mentioning penetration and someone correcting her, and then later as a couple of posters that run with that. Again, I am no fan of Turd and I think it could reasonably be believed that Jim Bob lied like the dog he is to prevent Turd from getting a rape charge. I also think there's some confusion because the report uses the term 'vagina' in a colloquial way that could also mean 'vulva.' I WELCOME being wrong here, I really do, but I just could not find any evidence beyond speculation. 

 

I don’t think it’s wrong or overly apologetic towards Josh to want accuracy when discussing his crimes.  What we DO know from the police reports is that he touched five girls in private areas of their bodies, without their consent. In two of those cases he put his hand under their dresses. I don’t need to claim penetration to know that what he did was disgusting and incredibly harmful to the girls - although as I said upthread, fundies like Anna will likely buy into the narrative that it’s “not that bad”. I think that’s even more reason to be accurate, because if they can claim that we’re lying/exaggerating about Josh then they can claim that our outrage is also unfounded or exaggerated.

 

6 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

That wasn't enough to keep him from searching on Ashley Madison....Idk why she would think it's enough for him now.

Yes, this is what I was trying to get at way back at the beginning of this conversation - while the available evidence suggests that his child molesting stopped in his teen years, the Ashley Madison scandal shows what sort of man he’s grown into and how little he values Anna.

And to bring it all back to the dangers of fundamentalism and patriarchy, Josh was taught his entire life that his “needs”, his sexuality, his LIFE is more important than any of the women he encounters, Anna and his daughters included. There are other factors, personality etc involved, but his actions reflect those teachings, and the way his family responded has done nothing but reinforce them.

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ViolaSebastian
Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, Smee said:

I don’t think it’s wrong or overly apologetic towards Josh to want accuracy when discussing his crimes.  What we DO know from the police reports is that he touched five girls in private areas of their bodies, without their consent. In two of those cases he put his hand under their dresses. I don’t need to claim penetration to know that what he did was disgusting and incredibly harmful to the girls - although as I said upthread, fundies like Anna will likely buy into the narrative that it’s “not that bad”. I think that’s even more reason to be accurate, because if they can claim that we’re lying/exaggerating about Josh then they can claim that our outrage is also unfounded or exaggerated.

Completely agree with you. I just wanted to be SUPER cautious and careful that I didn't sound like some sort of apologist who is minimizing Josh's behavior. What he did was horrific and unforgivable, regardless of whether or not he digitally penetrated any of his sisters. However, at the same time, I would be horrified if someone mis-characterized my abuse on the internet and then  that mis-characterization was perpetuated so often that it became readily accepted as fact. And I'm not calling anyone out, because I honestly accepted it as a fact and something that was reported; I was surprised as hell to not find any proof of it. We owe it to Josh's victims to discuss his crimes accurately and to be clear when we're speculating about how they may have been, in fact, worse than reported. 

Edited by ViolaSebastian

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AussieKrissy
6 hours ago, Beermeet said:

That story of her bulimia is a talking point in their neverending talks about marriage.  Funny, they don't talk about more um....difficult moments in their marriage.  Since they like to go on and on with fluff stories that benefit them. And, honestly, if in-family molestation is so common as they said, and theirs was kinda no biggie compared to others and all.....yeah, I completely believe they would hide or downplay the not so fluffy stories.  Michelle had a bout with bulimia, I don't want to down play that. Thankfully she stopped.  But she doesn't talk about the dangers of bulimia, she seems to focus on the "tell your husband everything " aspect. It fits their Gothard narrative.  Considering Gothard has that disgusting page or so of how to blame yourself ( the victim) and normalization of molestation and they said nothing in their talks ( thank god for that) , I definitely think this was something they withheld and downplayed.  That episode where they were all sitting around talking about something I forget, right before the world found out, it was very clear Ben had just found out, imo. He was pissed tf off. Idk how he kept it together.  If he had known,  I think his demeanor would be different.  

In short, I absolutely believe JB & M are capable of omitting or sugarcoating the truth. Derick reacted like someone who didn't know too. Just my opinion and observations.  Jeremy and Austin obviously knew since they met their wives post fallout.  JB &M are sneaky. 

What episode was this and were they talking about the molestation to be able to judge Derdick and Ben didn't know?

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VelociRapture
10 hours ago, AussieKrissy said:

What episode was this and were they talking about the molestation to be able to judge Derdick and Ben didn't know?

It was an after season special that was released right after the final season of 19 Kids aired. It was some of the family - I believe Jim Bob, Michelle, Benessa, and some others - sitting down to talk with an interviewer or something. I don’t think the Dills were there.

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Bad Wolf

I wonder how it would play if things were reversed. What if a Duggar boy wanted to court a girl who'd been molested by a family member? How about a reformed molester, like Josh, wanting to court a Duggar girl? I guess we all remember Tabitha Paine. Sigh. :sigh:

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