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HerNameIsBuffy

Josh, Anna, the M' kids Part 20: Girl Needs Some Serious Therapy

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viii
2 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

If only I could believe that Priscilla and David were purposely planning their family and just had an ‘oops’!

They must be doing some sort of family planning, though. They've gone 8+ years with each child being born two years apart. That's not natural. 

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singsingsing
1 minute ago, viii said:

They must be doing some sort of family planning, though. They've gone 8+ years with each child being born two years apart. That's not natural. 

Sure it is! It’s very natural and it happens in a lot of traditional societies that don’t use birth control. Average spacing between kids is often 2-3 years. Anna is the same as Priscilla. I doubt she’s family planning either. 

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viii

I don't think they're using birth control, but I feel like they would have a more variety of gaps between their kids than an even two years consistently if they weren't doing ANYTHING. 

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theotherelise

It's exceedingly normal and natural spacing! They don't have a tv show where they are forced to say exactly what their family planning is, but we have every reason to believe they do not prevent pregnancy.

Conception to birth is about 10 months. She usually gets pregnant about 14 months after having a child. Doctors recommend not having intercourse 6 weeks after birth, but many people likely wait 3-4 months or more due to sleep deprivation, lack of desire, and discomfort. So you're down to about 10-11 months time to conception. Then you add on breastfeeding and hormonal fluctuations that prevent ovulation or cause irregular ovulation. Some studies have shown that those who exclusively breastfeed can have as low as 2% conception rate in the first 6 months after birth. And another study I just saw shows over 50% of women don't have a regular cycle return until >12 months after birth. Ovulation can sneak in their irregularly still, but it's certainly not fair to compare the fertility of postpartum women to other women. 

Here is more info: https://kellymom.com/ages/older-infant/fertility/

Anyway, even in fundies, there is a difference between "leaving it up to God" and actively quiverful like JB&M. Pris usually get's pregnant 13-16 months after having a baby. Maybe part of that is breastfeeding and not having full fertility return. Maybe part of it is that they have several small children and they don't go at it like rabbits. So about 80% of couples actively trying to conceive will get pregnant in 6 months, but even with your full fertility (not post-partum), your rate is not going to be that high unless you are deliberately timing intercourse.

Most people don't have fertility return weeks after birth. Unfortunately some fundies do :(

3 minutes ago, viii said:

I don't think they're using birth control, but I feel like they would have a more variety of gaps between their kids than an even two years consistently if they weren't doing ANYTHING. 

I mean, 4 kids with 3 spacings feels like a lot of data, but it's really not.

From Duggar Data:

  • Paul to Davia   606 Days
  • Davia to Phillip   707 Days
  • Phillip to Destiny   713 Days

If Pris is pregnant, and maybe due in March-ish (total guess), that child spacing would be about 530 days from Destiny to the next baby. Definitely shorter, but not shockingly. She was really really consistent with the last two spacings. But that's only two data points.

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viii

I guess I'm so used to Michelle's close spacing that I forget that's the one that's actually not natural. 

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Giraffe

My theory: Michelle’s spacing was “we have sex as often as possible in order to become pregnant as soon as possible.” Other people’s spacing: “we have sex when we have sex and if it leads to pregnancy we have another kid.”

*Michelle & Kelly

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WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?
33 minutes ago, theotherelise said:

Most people don't have fertility return weeks after birth. Unfortunately some fundies do :(

I did, both times after giving birth. (While exclusively breastfeeding on demand.) Praise Rufus for birth control options!

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BadMurphy
1 hour ago, singsingsing said:

If only I could believe that Priscilla and David were purposely planning their family and just had an ‘oops’!

Yeah an “oops” to these people is a SUPER SPECIAL gift straight from God

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JordynDarby5
33 minutes ago, Giraffe said:

My theory: Michelle’s spacing was “we have sex as often as possible in order to become pregnant as soon as possible.” Other people’s spacing: “we have sex when we have sex and if it leads to pregnancy we have another kid.”

*Michelle & Kelly

Well, when you don't actually have to raise the kids and can hand the babies off at six months to your daughters to raise while also do all the cooking, cleaning and homeschooling you have much more time to devote to keep trying. Or in Kelly's case hand the baby over as soon as its born. Had both along with their husbands had to actually raise all their kids.  Do the cooking, cleaning and home schooling. Get up every time the baby gets up, potty training and everything else plus actually work instead of grift there would be fewer Duggar and Bates kids. 

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Depressed
melon
26 minutes ago, WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo? said:

I did, both times after giving birth. (While exclusively breastfeeding on demand.) Praise Rufus for birth control options!

Everyone isn't the same.

I was a woman who didn't ovulate while exclusively breastfeeding.My period did not return until 15 and 14 months later.

My oldest,ended up on the bottle.Once,he started having bottles ,regularly,my period returned.He was 6 weeks old.

 

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LancetteShing99

I didn't have my period back until my son weaned himself completely at about 11 months. So I think (hope) my natural spacing is similiar to Priscilla's.

We don't prevent at all, my son is currently 13.5 months old and I'm definitely not pregnant by now.

I also think that 2-3 years spacings are a lot more natural if you don't prevent (and don't try) than those crazy Michelle-spacings.

 

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Waffle Time
OldFadedStar

I EBF. My baby gets maybe 3-4 bottles a week of pumped milk. My period came back when she was 3 months old. She’s 7 months now and it’s pretty regular. I’m so pissed about it because my supply dips a little bit while on it so I’m dealing with a crankier baby while pmsing 

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AussieKrissy
18 hours ago, CarrotCake said:

With the first 2 pictures I was not sure but that last picture is very clear.

If that is not a baby bump she seriously need to work on her posture.

The video left no doubt in my mind. I couldn’t get quick enough to actually catch the screen shot where her belly button has already popped out. I really thought I had missed an announcement. But as someone said maybe they were planning to announce but after the loss of his sister, they possibly understandably delayed it. 

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Melissa1977
12 hours ago, JordynDarby5 said:

Well, when you don't actually have to raise the kids and can hand the babies off at six months to your daughters to raise while also do all the cooking, cleaning and homeschooling you have much more time to devote to keep trying. Or in Kelly's case hand the baby over as soon as its born. Had both along with their husbands had to actually raise all their kids.  Do the cooking, cleaning and home schooling. Get up every time the baby gets up, potty training and everything else plus actually work instead of grift there would be fewer Duggar and Bates kids. 

But it didn't happened until they had like 6 or 7 children at least. And still, when Jana and Michaela were 8-10 years old, despite being little slaves, there was still a lot of work for the mothers (homeschooling, *educating*, shopping and probably some sort of cooking and baby care, etc).

Megafamilies mothers live in a complete nightmare for years. Not that I feel any pity for them, who have chosen that! 

 

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JordynDarby5
2 hours ago, Melissa1977 said:

But it didn't happened until they had like 6 or 7 children at least. And still, when Jana and Michaela were 8-10 years old, despite being little slaves, there was still a lot of work for the mothers (homeschooling, *educating*, shopping and probably some sort of cooking and baby care, etc).

Megafamilies mothers live in a complete nightmare for years. Not that I feel any pity for them, who have chosen that! 

 

I really don't either. They chose to have more kids then they could ever handle. At some point they decided rather then to stop having kids or considered that was a sign from God to stop instead chose to make their daughters do everything. They had zero problem handing over a newborn or six month old over to their daughter to take care of and raise. It wasn't their daughters jobs to raise kids and do all the cooking and cleaning because their parents chose to have so many kids they couldn't take care off. Michelle had a break down and yet somehow didn't come out of it deciding they had enough kids. Nope, she decided her daughters were going to do everything and get 'buddies'. All four are crappy people for so many reasons but also what they did to their own kids. 

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Pretzel

Well, count me in saying that definitely looks like a baby bump.

Pris and David are health-conscious and sportive and Pris just generally, pregnant or not, has a rather toned/defined body. Not that anything is wrong with not being that way, but it's just been very consistent with the Wallers, and even with bump Priscilla looks well toned as always in the pics. I assume they didn't want to announce due to losing David's sister, which is a perfectly understandable decision. 

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Charliemae
7 hours ago, Melissa1977 said:

But it didn't happened until they had like 6 or 7 children at least. And still, when Jana and Michaela were 8-10 years old, despite being little slaves, there was still a lot of work for the mothers (homeschooling, *educating*, shopping and probably some sort of cooking and baby care, etc).

Megafamilies mothers live in a complete nightmare for years. Not that I feel any pity for them, who have chosen that! 

 

I agree.  Although I do feel pity for some of them some of the time.  I can't personally distinguish how much choice these women have.  It's hard to say how much actual abuse and brainwashing each individual women is shouldering.  Some of them buy in wholeheartedly, but there are others that are having more kids because they are forced to be Joyfully available at all times. Patriarchy is bad. Cults are bad.  Quiverfull is bad. 

Edited by Charliemae

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JordynDarby5
4 hours ago, Charliemae said:

I agree.  Although I do feel pity for some of them some of the time.  I can't personally distinguish how much choice these women have.  It's hard to say how much actual abuse and brainwashing each individual women is shouldering.  Some of them buy in wholeheartedly, but there are others that are having more kids because they are forced to be Joyfully available at all times. Patriarchy is bad. Cults are bad.  Quiverfull is bad. 

For most women in Quiverful yes. They have very little if any choices. They've been brainwashed to think this is what they want. Probably abused too. But there are some for me that are an exception Kelly, Michelle and others who are at least 50/50 or wear the pants in the family. Jill Rodrigues probably qualifies too. Their grifters and users, if they hadn't joined Quiverful they would have found something else. They know exactly what their doing. They don't actually do anything that they preach. They don't do anything they don't want to do. They don't cook, clean or raise their kids and have zero problems making their daughters do that. Its all really about them getting what they want. 

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SassyPants
24 minutes ago, JordynDarby5 said:

For most women in Quiverful yes. They have very little if any choices. They've been brainwashed to think this is what they want. Probably abused too. But there are some for me that are an exception Kelly, Michelle and others who are at least 50/50 or wear the pants in the family. Jill Rodrigues probably qualifies too. Their grifters and users, if they hadn't joined Quiverful they would have found something else. They know exactly what their doing. They don't actually do anything that they preach. They don't do anything they don't want to do. They don't cook, clean or raise their kids and have zero problems making their daughters do that. Its all really about them getting what they want. 

While I agree with all of this, if they were making their daughters do all the “homemaking” chores and Godly women’s work, how come the married girls do not appear to have skills, expertise or knowledge in these areas? I really think that Jana was doing the bulk of the work. NONE of the married Duggarettes have the apparent homemaking skills of Annmarie Maxwell (Mrs. Christopher). Again, when you have 19 children there is no time for anyone, anything, teaching, manners, honing skills, nothing...it’s survival mode at best.

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JordynDarby5
2 hours ago, SassyPants said:

While I agree with all of this, if they were making their daughters do all the “homemaking” chores and Godly women’s work, how come the married girls do not appear to have skills, expertise or knowledge in these areas? I really think that Jana was doing the bulk of the work. NONE of the married Duggarettes have the apparent homemaking skills of Annmarie Maxwell (Mrs. Christopher). Again, when you have 19 children there is no time for anyone, anything, teaching, manners, honing skills, nothing...it’s survival mode at best.

Jana does seem to do the bulk of the work and she knows how to sew, while on the Bates side Michael pretty much does the same thing. Plus Michelle and Kelly both really don't really seem like they know to do any of the homemaking chores they were supposedly suppose to not only know but teach their daughters. Maybe I'm forgetting on Michelle and she really did but Kelly certainly doesn't. She couldn't even figure out how to fix a skirt for one her youngest daughters which you'd think she'd know because of all her other daughters. I've always wondered if someone else taught Jana and Michael instead of their mothers. So much of the rest kind of seems exactly how Kelly and Michelle would do things and probably taught them. Whatever is the quickest and easiest. Cooking open a can and dump. Homeschooling, To a daughter or daughters who will in turn do the meals or one of the meals or other stuff and they'll teach whoever they teach even though they themselves don't really know much of it. You can see in Duggars that were buddies. Each daughter that married and left didn't really seem to know any of the skills they should except for possibly Michael. Although Erin did end up learning how to cook after she married and seems to have gotten real good, Zach seems to have learned too. But as Erin keeps having kids we'll see if that changes. But for now not only is she cooking, she cooks vegetables. She introduced her siblings to broccoli.  Either Kelly and Michelle are both really bad at it or didn't care as long as the girls could do the bare minimum or maybe both? I lean towards both because they don't really seem particularly good at home making stuff but also they have to know that their under-educating their kids.  The weird part is the lack of skills the Duggars and Bates daughters have don't seem to reflect on their mothers like it should. It was their job and one thing their cult and they bragged about how great they were. 

Again its hard to feel sorry for any either one they chose this and could have chosen to stop at any point. Instead  chosen to hand off all their responsibilities to their daughters and do absolutely nothing. Its like the story Michelle loves to tell about the music teach or whoever saw or heard about her breakdown and volunteered to do laundry. That's really nice but the woman ends up doing that for eleven or twelve years. Michelle has no problem taking advantage of her for the next decade. They off load their responsibilities and do nothing. They certainly don't help out their now overwhelmed and under age daughters. They never go back to doing any kind of raising and caring about their kids.   

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Peaches-n-Beans

I'm on the fence about pregnancy speculation myself bit I definitely think Priscilla is pregnant again from those pictures.

However I do think people on the instagram post should stop asking that, one person went so far as to suggest the name Dolche Rebecca for the baby. I think that's too far, they're grieving and should be allowed to celebrate their sons birthday - one of the few happy times they've likely had the last few weeks -in peace without people jumping down their throats. 

Maybe it's hypocritical but to me, it's one thing to speculate here, where they'd have to put in a bit of effort to find and read these threads, and another entirely to comment on the instagram post.

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FluffySnowball
18 hours ago, JordynDarby5 said:

For most women in Quiverful yes. They have very little if any choices. They've been brainwashed to think this is what they want. Probably abused too. But there are some for me that are an exception Kelly, Michelle and others who are at least 50/50 or wear the pants in the family. Jill Rodrigues probably qualifies too. Their grifters and users, if they hadn't joined Quiverful they would have found something else. They know exactly what their doing. 

Agree, though with the exception of JillRod, the women you mentioned didn’t actually grow up in the cult but had more or less secular upbringings. They chose to live the way they do although they had other options. Women like Anna Duggar or Priscilla Waller might not be aware of their own agency - although at least one Keller sister has left fundydom so it’s a matter of character disposition as well. To submit or not to submit... 

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viii
21 hours ago, SassyPants said:

While I agree with all of this, if they were making their daughters do all the “homemaking” chores and Godly women’s work, how come the married girls do not appear to have skills, expertise or knowledge in these areas? 

Do we know that they actually lack these skills, or is it all a storyline for the shows?

3 hours ago, Peaches-n-Beans said:

Maybe it's hypocritical but to me, it's one thing to speculate here, where they'd have to put in a bit of effort to find and read these threads, and another entirely to comment on the instagram post.

No, I agree with you. When they come here, they're actively seeking out comments on their lifestyle. But their own social media is just them living life, and people should respect that. 

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Glasgowghirl
17 hours ago, JordynDarby5 said:

Jana does seem to do the bulk of the work and she knows how to sew, while on the Bates side Michael pretty much does the same thing. Plus Michelle and Kelly both really don't really seem like they know to do any of the homemaking chores they were supposedly suppose to not only know but teach their daughters. Maybe I'm forgetting on Michelle and she really did but Kelly certainly doesn't. She couldn't even figure out how to fix a skirt for one her youngest daughters which you'd think she'd know because of all her other daughters. I've always wondered if someone else taught Jana and Michael instead of their mothers. So much of the rest kind of seems exactly how Kelly and Michelle would do things and probably taught them. Whatever is the quickest and easiest. Cooking open a can and dump. Homeschooling, To a daughter or daughters who will in turn do the meals or one of the meals or other stuff and they'll teach whoever they teach even though they themselves don't really know much of it. You can see in Duggars that were buddies. Each daughter that married and left didn't really seem to know any of the skills they should except for possibly Michael. Although Erin did end up learning how to cook after she married and seems to have gotten real good, Zach seems to have learned too. But as Erin keeps having kids we'll see if that changes. But for now not only is she cooking, she cooks vegetables. She introduced her siblings to broccoli.  Either Kelly and Michelle are both really bad at it or didn't care as long as the girls could do the bare minimum or maybe both? I lean towards both because they don't really seem particularly good at home making stuff but also they have to know that their under-educating their kids.  The weird part is the lack of skills the Duggars and Bates daughters have don't seem to reflect on their mothers like it should. It was their job and one thing their cult and they bragged about how great they were. 

Again its hard to feel sorry for any either one they chose this and could have chosen to stop at any point. Instead  chosen to hand off all their responsibilities to their daughters and do absolutely nothing. Its like the story Michelle loves to tell about the music teach or whoever saw or heard about her breakdown and volunteered to do laundry. That's really nice but the woman ends up doing that for eleven or twelve years. Michelle has no problem taking advantage of her for the next decade. They off load their responsibilities and do nothing. They certainly don't help out their now overwhelmed and under age daughters. They never go back to doing any kind of raising and caring about their kids.   

I remember watching the Bates first TV show on YouTube and seeing them all poking fun at Erin for not being good at cooking, I'm glad Erin decided once her and Chad got married that she would learn to cook and try new foods. Jessa has also posted about eating different types of food, the kid's have Kefir and she has shopped at whole foods. Michelle and Kelly seemed to just teach them how to make things that were easy to put together quickly and not great nutritionally, while nothing wrong with having some recipes like that especially in a rush, you also need healthier stuff added too. Kelly not knowing that children's trousers often had adjustable waists is shocking. 

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SassyPants
5 minutes ago, viii said:

Do we know that they actually lack these skills, or is it all a storyline for the shows?

No, I agree with you. When they come here, they're actively seeking out comments on their lifestyle. But their own social media is just them living life, and people should respect that. 

How desperate would a group need to be to allow themselves to be presented as stupid when it comes to their job, by the way, the only jobs that they’ve been groomed for? If this is the case, the show really needs to end as it would be pretty clear that there is nothing interesting or worthy of having a public show. Is CO actually a comedy? 

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