Jump to content
  • Sky
  • Blueberry
  • Slate
  • Blackcurrant
  • Watermelon
  • Strawberry
  • Orange
  • Banana
  • Apple
  • Emerald
  • Chocolate
  • Charcoal
HerNameIsBuffy

Josh, Anna, the M' kids Part 20 - Girl Needs Some Serious Therapy

Recommended Posts

Smee

I still hope for one from Jill. I know she’s not particularly likeable, but escaping the cult and leaving Derrick would make her a lot more so. The whole relationship with Derrick strikes me as “arranged marriage” in terms of courting JB more than Jill, and then childbirth sucked for her despite being the “most prepared” (not calling her a midwife because her so-called training is laughable), and generally I just think she would have the most powerful story to tell about propaganda vs reality if she ever had her eyes opened enough to want to leave. I think she’s still forgiveable for the general public in a way Anna is not.

Anna’s too culpable now. She can’t use her upbringing as an excuse when she has siblings who have escaped (& presumably had the same upbringing), and even in a world where divorce is considered super sinful, the bible speaks harshly enough about adultery that there must be other fundies who would have had sympathy had she left. Instead she chose to have (at least) two more babies with a man whose true ugly colours were revealed.

I do think Meredith was our last hope for a Duggar daughter named Madison and would have been amazing timing. Objectively I prefer Meredith as a name anyway.

10 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Very true.  Not sure what it says about me that they can attract partners and I'm forever alone from this point out, but I'm sure it's nothing good.  :) 

Have you watched Daniel Sloss’s comedy standup “Jigsaw”? He makes an excellent case for single life.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Satisfied
HerNameIsBuffy
2 minutes ago, Smee said:

I think she’s still forgiveable for the general public in a way Anna is not.

Oh absolutely!  She's annoying, not complicit in additional kids for Josh.

I agree it would be interesting, but I think she's one of the least likely to ever go there even if she left Derek and fundydom.  I don't think she could hurt JB like that.

I think their bond is genuine and as messed up as he is as a person and a dad I think they have a special bond and I do think he loves his kids.  In a way I don't think Michelle ever could.

I just don't think she has it in her to do something that would hurt her Dad so much.  Idk - maybe I'm just projecting...but it's just a feeling.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tired
SadieJane

I think something we all look over when we think she should have left, is that she is still in a cult basically. I mean I can sit here and think she is a bit of a moron for not leaving all I want but we need to remember that she probably thinks that will send her straight into the evil world of sin.  I don't think she is a moron. As long as Anna ties that Duggar line, Jimbob will support her and the kids and that deadweight husband of hers.  As long as she toes that line, she still has her friends. She still has her family without friction. She still has her kids.  She still has her Jesus. 

 

This is the line of thought that she needs therapy over. All those reasons to stay in what is almost certainly abusive in some form will keep her in that toxic lifestyle, regardless of who says, come to the outside world sis, it's not all that bad.  She doesn't know what's out here and it's probably more terrifying to her than being with a creeper and having his children every two years.  

For this reason, even with their horrible views, I'll probably always have just a bit of pity for the women of these families. 

  • Upvote 13
  • I Agree 15
  • Love 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ivycoveredtower

this is giving me bad flashbacks to one of the early specials when they had all the kids lined up oldest to youngest wearing red in front of the RV. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Vivi_music
14 hours ago, JenniferJuniper said:

Josh is a bum.  He'd have been a bum even if he weren't a hypocritical fundie.  

Shiftless, bored, untrustworthy, and I'm willing to bet he's verbally abusive, at least to his wife if not to the kids as well.  He's a nasty person. I remember his pre-DC Instagrams well. 

Most of us who have lived long enough have known quite a few Josh's.  Lazy, spoiled assholes who more often than not make miserable the lives of those around them.

The elements that make the J&A relationship much more complicated are of course fundyism and reality show "stardom" which has had a major impact on her relationship with and her dependency on her in-laws.  Anna is effectively trapped.

But my money is on Josh having a "mid-life crisis" and eventually dumping her for someone younger and prettier, and probably far less fundie.  He'll take his 10 kids to Hogs games on weekends, giving Anna (and Mac) a break for a few hours.  And that'll be the extent of his relationship with Anna and the M's. 

While I agree with you that Josh would have been an insufferable a**hole, fundie or not; I do wonder if he would have at least have less chances to hurt other people if he would have been raised non-fundie. Maybe he would have been allowed to date and end up with a more normal and healthy view of sex and intimacy (I would hope so but who knows. I have come accross a ton of sexist macho guys who were not fundies). I even think Josh would have loved to study, go to college and get a real job. If he would have cheated on his wife, at least divorce could have been an option and Anna nor his children would be stuck in this awful situation now.

For a while now I have come to agree that he is probably the less happy with the lifestyle his family imposed on him. I genuinely think he must have dreamt of running away so many times. But I don't feel sorry for Josh, because in the end, he is the only one responsible one for his actions. His parents are certainly at fault, and so is the restrictive nature of patriarcal fundamentalism in itself. These are explanations but not excuses. In the end, he alone acted his impulses on his young victims. He alone chose to register on Ashley Madison.

 

  • Upvote 19
  • I Agree 3
  • Love 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SassyPants
13 hours ago, TheMustardCardigan said:

A Josh tell all book would be so interesting. On one hand, I have been rooting for someone to break free and write a tell all book for YEARS. On the other hand, I mean, it’s Josh. It kind of hits that interesting point... that a lot of people want to see a Duggar child break from the lifestyle, but in a positive way, and Josh broke from it in the worst ways possible and then just reluctantly went back into the fold after Jesus jail anyway. 

Still kinda hoping for a Lost Girl tell all book but an older sibling would be the most interesting— one that remembers what the days were like in the little house, before the TLC money, when they were just poor with too many kids but not a freakshow amount of kids yet. 

They moved to the big house right before #16 was born, IIRC. They were a freak show before they moved.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ivycoveredtower

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Wine time!
Snarkasarus Rex

I’m pretty sure Anna would swipe left on me...lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
VelociRapture
1 minute ago, Snarkasarus Rex said:

I’m pretty sure Anna would swipe left on me...lol

Same. Thank God. I’m not always the most patient person offline (or online to be fair - I have had my share of moments) and I can guarantee you we’d come to verbal blows pretty quickly. I don’t suffer fools. 

  • Upvote 6
  • Haha 1
  • I Agree 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
neurogirl
Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, Vivi_music said:

While I agree with you that Josh would have been an insufferable a**hole, fundie or not; I do wonder if he would have at least have less chances to hurt other people if he would have been raised non-fundie. Maybe he would have been allowed to date and end up with a more normal and healthy view of sex and intimacy (I would hope so but who knows. I have come accross a ton of sexist macho guys who were not fundies).

It's hard to think about this one. The big question is would he still feel as entitled to sex had he not been raised fundie? I think yes unless he had completely different parents and peer group, ones who maybe were very persistent about talking about boundaries, consent, respect starting at very young ages. I can imagine him being just as predatory, just with girls his own age. I think he would still be one scary dude.

Edited by neurogirl

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
AussieKrissy
On 5/13/2019 at 12:49 AM, HerNameIsBuffy said:

She's a not a smart woman, but I never heard she any kind of cognitive disability which would mitigate her responsibility.  

If that's the case then it's unconscionable that they're using someone who isn't capable of making rational decisions to bear and raise child after child.  If she is intellectually capable of rational decisions then she's culpable.

I know she's been crippled in many ways by her upbringing, but a shitty upbringing doesn't excuse bad parenting.  She has no right to sacrifice her children at the altar of her husband and her religion.

 

Warren Jeff's daughter broke free and is doing well (from what I can tell) If she can do it after that shit show, Anna could.

But, different personalities and Warren's daughter recognised and acknowledged her life was wrong and changed it. Anna has not. Until that happens we will not see any change. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Waffle Time
Lullu-Beanz
Spoiler

ashley.thumb.JPG.4fcb71adc577eff8a40a44421406ee41.JPG

Got an ad for Ashley Madison just as I was about to click on this thread.

  • Rufus Bless 2
  • Haha 17
  • Love 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
WarriorJane

I'm not in any way defending Anna or any of them really, but I think it's important to remember that she likely fervently believes that she will literally burn in hell if she divorces.   And that a failed marriage would be all her fault,  with Josh's actions being blamed on her.  That fundy bullshit is a pretty powerful force to overcome.   

  • Upvote 5
  • Sad 3
  • I Agree 9
  • Love 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JordynDarby5
On ‎5‎/‎13‎/‎2019 at 2:36 PM, neurogirl said:

It's hard to think about this one. The big question is would he still feel as entitled to sex had he not been raised fundie? I think yes unless he had completely different parents and peer group, ones who maybe were very persistent about talking about boundaries, consent, respect starting at very young ages. I can imagine him being just as predatory, just with girls his own age. I think he would still be one scary dude.

So do I. He's the only Duggar I see turning out the same if he'd been raised by completely different parents. He'd still be the same lazy, smug asshole. He would have molested or tried to molest someone. The only difference is he might have been turned into the police sooner and be force to get real help. He might not have been protected and allowed to get off scot free. His upbringing didn't make him a molester, he made himself that. All it did was help him get away with it scot free. All it did was teach him he could do whatever he wanted and getaway with it. Which he did.     

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ivycoveredtower

so I'm watching a video where JB and M plus Cil and David give a talk. you can find it on the Jill and Derick, Austin and Joy and Cil and David thread anyway they are talking can you find love if you're not a virgin when you get married and Cil drops the bombshell that PA keller was not a virgin when he married Ma Keller. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Wine time!
Snarkasarus Rex
3 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

You have blinded my minds eye.  Few things are physically painful to read but Pa Keller involved in any kind of naked activity did it.

:brainbleach: You may need some of this!

  • Upvote 1
  • Haha 14
  • I Agree 3
  • Thank You 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?
5 hours ago, Snarkasarus Rex said:

:brainbleach: You may need some of this!

And this: 

:eyewash:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
RosyDaisy

What has been seen can't be unseen! Excuse me while I take my anti- nausea medication.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sullie06
17 hours ago, JordynDarby5 said:

So do I. He's the only Duggar I see turning out the same if he'd been raised by completely different parents. He'd still be the same lazy, smug asshole. He would have molested or tried to molest someone. The only difference is he might have been turned into the police sooner and be force to get real help. He might not have been protected and allowed to get off scot free. His upbringing didn't make him a molester, he made himself that. All it did was help him get away with it scot free. All it did was teach him he could do whatever he wanted and getaway with it. Which he did.     

I agree that he likely would have been the exact same person regardless of his upbringing, his victims would have just looked different. So in my line of work, I work with juvenile sex offenders on a fairly regular basis and he looks like a lot of them on paper. The same attitudes; the smugness, lack of empathy, lack of remorse, victim blaming. I would easily bet money on his being a perp only it would have been a girl at school, or in the community that he has some connection with. 

  • Upvote 8
  • Sad 2
  • I Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tired
agentshade
On 5/12/2019 at 7:36 PM, SadieJane said:

I think something we all look over when we think she should have left, is that she is still in a cult basically. I mean I can sit here and think she is a bit of a moron for not leaving all I want but we need to remember that she probably thinks that will send her straight into the evil world of sin.  I don't think she is a moron. As long as Anna ties that Duggar line, Jimbob will support her and the kids and that deadweight husband of hers.  As long as she toes that line, she still has her friends. She still has her family without friction. She still has her kids.  She still has her Jesus.

This is important factor to consider. Anna refusing to leave her husband after what he's done may seem moronic in the secular world, but in Fundieland, everything is thrust into another context.

The glue that holds Anna's life together is her marriage; money to take care of her kids and pay rent, respect from her family, friends (both which she has known for most or all of her life), and church, and no job skills due to being trained lifelong to be a housewife instead. So if Anna were to divorce Josh, she would be excommunicated from her entire community and everything she's ever known, forced to start over in a world she doesn't understand. This would be like if a secular woman and her kids were suddenly forced to move to another country after divorcing her husband. The woman doesn't know the language, and is unable to find work due to the language, cultural, and educational barrier, all while having lost her family, friends, and culture. Perhaps some people in that country would see her situation and offer her help, except she doesn't know those people. She doesn't know anything about them, doesn't understand the way they speak, or why they behave the way they do. How can she trust them? Should she trust them? Even when help is offered, she likely still wouldn't know what to do.

If a secular person getting divorced (no matter how awful their partner is) would inevitably result in the above. . .would they have the nerve to do it? Certainly not everyone. There's a reason only a handful of people raised in fundamentalism end up escaping.

  • Upvote 24
  • I Agree 3
  • Love 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
nausicaa
11 hours ago, agentshade said:

If a secular person getting divorced (no matter how awful their partner is) would inevitably result in the above. . .would they have the nerve to do it? Certainly not everyone. There's a reason only a handful of people raised in fundamentalism end up escaping.

Yeah, this is why I never come down that hard on Anna. Not because I think she's some paragon of motherhood, but because I feel like a bit of a hypocrite doing it. If I were in her shoes--thirty years old, no real education, no career, never lived on my own, six young kids--I don't know if I'd be strong enough to leave. At least while the kids were young. I definitely would tell my nasty ass husband to make sure to keep his dick at least ten feet away from me at all times, but I can see settling for a business arrangement at least until the youngest kids were a bit older. And I don't have any of the religious dogma she's steeped in either. 

Anna's options suck. Because fundamentalism sucks. 

  • Upvote 24
  • I Agree 3
  • Love 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
viii

Unless you've been raised in a cult, it's tough to fully understand why so many of these people don't leave. 

It's an unpopular opinion, but I will always have some sort of sympathy for Anna and Josh. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Satisfied
HerNameIsBuffy
1 hour ago, nausicaa said:

I definitely would tell my nasty ass husband to make sure to keep his dick at least ten feet away from me at all times,

So you wouldn’t be bringing in new baby after new baby into a home where you knew your husband had been a serial sexual predator?  

That’s a huge difference.

 

  • Upvote 9
  • I Agree 4
  • Love 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
nausicaa
Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

So you wouldn’t be bringing in new baby after new baby into a home where you knew your husband had been a serial sexual predator?  

That’s a huge difference.

I definitely would not have any more children with him. For multiple reasons. 

I lose a little more sympathy each time Anna brings another kid into this failed marriage. This last announcement made me want to scream. 

However, I also know she was taught that she has to submit to her husband and if she does their marriage will be "fixed" and if she doesn't she is sinning. I comprehend her thought process (and denial) but disagree with it and do think she is selfish for continuing to bring more kids into this mess. 

Edited by nausicaa

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



×