Josh, Anna, the M' kids Part 20: Girl Needs Some Serious Therapy

[neurogirl]

BEC but "Marcus is currently the middle child" is ??? I get that he's currently 3/5 so exactly in the middle but after baby 6 or 7 he's still going to be a middle child??

Family secrets- My middle name is for my maternal grandmother who died when my mom was young. Even though I am named after her, she was pretty much never spoken about. My mom would shut down any questions I had. I now know that my grandmother died in a questionable accident/probable suicide on my mom's 16th birthday and that my grandfather was questioned for possible murder (which no one in the family believes was a remote possibility, and I always knew him as a warm and loving). So I can understand why my mother was permanently traumatized, and why she was always so weird on her birthday. I wish I knew a little bit more about my namesake though. At least my mom displays a lot of her paintings - I would often wonder about this mysterious grandma who liked to paint (very rustic and charming) 2D still lives of fruit and farming!

In doing genealogical research, I also have a great uncle on my dad's side that's weirdly older than his siblings, and is almost certainly born out of wedlock or isn't a bio son or something. I politely asked once about the age gap and was pretty quickly shut down so it turns out my family (different sides too!) is also really good at keeping secrets.

[Iamtheway]

On 6/6/2019 at 12:42 PM, justmy2cents said:

That's awful. I thought he had his first son with an ex and she signed away her rights.

it's terrible to tell a small child their parent died to shut them up. When I was pregnant my grandmother suggested I tell my daughter her father died in the war. I was like 'what war'? I never wanted to lie. Right now my daughter is perfectly content with our situation. I always let her express her feelings. I didn't ever want her to think she has to keep them inside. I'm sure there will be some tough moments ahead but at less she knows she can talk to me.

 

On 6/6/2019 at 5:55 PM, viii said:

My sister and her wife used a sperm donor to have their twins - it's amazing the books that are out there now to talk about all sorts of different blended families! The twins are only three, so they don't have much understanding, but my sister plans to be very open with them when they're older and have questions. Also, the donor (they used a clinic) signed an agreement that if the twins are curious about him once they are adults, they're able to contact him. 

I really think being open is the right aproach. No secrets so that there is no risk that the child finds something out and thinks it’s been hidden because it’s shameful in any way. Then it’s just a natural part of your life and nothing strange.

Even though Miniway isn’t actually an ivf-baby we still talk to him about how different families can be and that babies can be made in different ways. Now that he’s little he just naturally accepts that someone can have two mums or be concieved in a labratory because to him the world is still a mystery and everything is possible.

[Jana814]

I agree it’s best to be honest. My mother’s best friend niece & her partner have 3 kids. (1 boy & 2 girls). They all have the same father (a friend of theirs).  My mother’s friend niece had the boy her partner had the girls. The interesting part is all 3 of the kids look alike. 

[PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea]

I don't think my family has secrets so much as "whoops, we never thought to mention that Uncle X is adopted because he's just my brother!" Uh, sure, but it's still nice to know what's going on!

[Vivi_music]

It was never a secret, but we wonder if my uncle fathered more children then he told us. His first child he had with his then-girlfriend was a daughter born in the 70s. She was given into adoption right after her birth. This story is a bit sad actually. The child's mother was also my mom's best friend (which is how she met my uncle). The whole pregnancy created a riff between my mom and her friend and my uncle. Not to mention the relationship between the two lovers was apparently very toxic. In the end, the mother did not want to keep the baby while my uncle said he would've. For a long time, my grandma and my mother wondered what had happened to this child and I think deep down, they wanted to find her. But also decided to not purposely seek her out, in case she was not interested in meeting her bio-family (but knowing them, I know they were still hoping she would try to find her roots one day). Which she did eventually.

We also know my uncle fathered a boy with a friend of his who wanted to be a single Mom (in full consent that she would raise the child on her own). I think it was the hippie years so they seemed to have been pretty open-minded about that kind of stuff. They apparently kept in touch for a few years, but my uncle never insisted nor wanted to me more involved in the kid's life. He respected his friend's choice. They would send each other cards, drawings, school report cards, etc. from what I recall.

None of this were truly secrets, nor were the pregnancies ever hidden. I think in general we don't have much spicy story in my family, or we just put everything out in the open. But my uncle passed away about 4 years ago so we kind of wondered if he forgot to tell us about other kids he might have fathered out there.

[AnnEggBlandHer?]

My great grandparents got married in secret. The story I was told was that ggm and ggf wanted to have sex, but you couldn’t do that unless you were married, so they got married but continued living home with their parents like nothing had happened until she found out she was pregnant. I question the reasoning and the timeline for sure. 

 

I also wonder about how and when to tell my children that they may have biological half siblings. I was an egg donor and did 5 cycles, so there are likely quite a few children with my DNA out there somewhere. 

[tabitha2]

My Mothers father Married his teenage daughters equally teenage best friend. I know my Grandmother and her young children were forced to leave New York on a bus to Texas with basically only the clothes on their backs. Never heard from The man again as he set up His new family.  Lot’s of bad abusive stuff in that family went down but none of siblings will talk about it. 

[Jana814]

2 minutes ago, tabitha2 said:

My Mothers father Married his teenage daughters equally teenage best friend. I know my Grandmother and her young children were forced to leave New York on a bus to Texas with basically only the clothes on their backs. Never heard from The man again as he set up His new family.  Lot’s of bad abusive stuff in that family went down but none of siblings will talk about it. 

Oh my that’s horrible. Makes perfect sense that no one talked about it. 

[tabitha2]

The whole family up there sounded like a Gothic Novel. 6 other single brothers who were variously petty criminals and disabled lived on a old dairy farm with their elderly Polish Parents. They worked like Dogs but They were hard  people and My grandmother told me she was warned they were cold fish and not like the warm Loud Texas Polish people she grew up with. She learned this soon enough. My mother said her GM was very scary, reminded her of a witch LoL. 

My uncle and aunt tried to visit his dad at one time and got ran off the farm with a shot gun by his half brother. 

Edited June 11, 2019 by tabitha2

[Irishy]

Let’s see what comes of the rape allegations against Ronaldo, but I believe her.

It’s widely suspected that he is gay. Hence no requirement for mothers for these children of his. If he is gay, then I hate him for hiding it. There are no openly gay top level soccer players. Like, none. One or two exceptions in lower leagues but no household names. The difference he could have made to so many young men and boys if only he’d had the courage to ever come out. If he is gay. But clearly the man has issues.

[VelociRapture]

2 hours ago, Irishy said:

Let’s see what comes of the rape allegations against Ronaldo, but I believe her.

It’s widely suspected that he is gay. Hence no requirement for mothers for these children of his. If he is gay, then I hate him for hiding it. There are no openly gay top level soccer players. Like, none. One or two exceptions in lower leagues but no household names. The difference he could have made to so many young men and boys if only he’d had the courage to ever come out. If he is gay. But clearly the man has issues.

I have no opinion on Ronaldo as I don’t follow football/soccer and I know nothing about the rape allegations other than what has been shared here. I think the bolded is widely unfair though. No one is obligated to share their sexuality with anyone else if they don’t feel comfortable or safe doing so. He is not responsible for other people feeling comfortable coming out - he is only responsible for living his life the way he sees fit and if that means he is gay and he’s concealing it then he has every right to do so if that’s what’s best for him.

Edited June 11, 2019 by VelociRapture

[nst]

did i tell this story before

my mom's brothers before her and after her (1 of each ) were fathered by two different men not my grandfather and my grandfather knew it the entire time.  The boys didn't know until my grandmother's funeral 15 years ago and still don't speak to their biological fathers who were invited to the funeral. 

my grandmother was a horrible woman for this and other reasons. 

 

 

[Glasgowghirl]

2 hours ago, Irishy said:

Let’s see what comes of the rape allegations against Ronaldo, but I believe her.

It’s widely suspected that he is gay. Hence no requirement for mothers for these children of his. If he is gay, then I hate him for hiding it. There are no openly gay top level soccer players. Like, none. One or two exceptions in lower leagues but no household names. The difference he could have made to so many young men and boys if only he’d had the courage to ever come out. If he is gay. But clearly the man has issues.

I am no Ronaldo fan but I am on the fence about her story.  As I said on an earlier post a lot players have had their lives destroyed by false allegations. 

As for hating him if he is gay and in the closet, in the 1990s English player Justin Fashanu came out and he was abused and shunned by a lot of player's including his own brother, he ended up killing himself. He had been facing abuse allegations as well that were never proven. I don't blame any player for not coming out, it would be great if player's did start coming out but we still have a way to go before that will happen. 

[theotherelise]

I mean, my family has layers upon layers upon layers, so it would not be prudent or possible to explain.

My mom was always completely honest with us about her origin and that of her siblings: 5 children, my mom and her older sister one bio dad, middle sibling different bio dad, and youngest two fathered by my grandpa. My aunts, however, were not completely honest with their kids. So they had no idea our mom's had different fathers for the longest time.

Finally, I was hanging out at christmas with a couple of my cousins who are three years younger than I when we were all about 12-15. The younger cousins were learning about phenotypes and doing basic punnet squares in school. They were talking about all of our eye colors. My mom has brown/green eyes, but all her siblings have light blue eyes and her mom and step-dad both had blue eyes. My cousins turn to me, the older wiser 15 year old, and they want to know how it happened that my mom didn't get blue eyes when both her parents have them... Um... 

I think I just told them to ask their parents, but I could not believe they didn't know!

[Irishy]

16 hours ago, Glasgowghirl said:

I am no Ronaldo fan but I am on the fence about her story.  As I said on an earlier post a lot players have had their lives destroyed by false allegations. 

As for hating him if he is gay and in the closet, in the 1990s English player Justin Fashanu came out and he was abused and shunned by a lot of player's including his own brother, he ended up killing himself. He had been facing abuse allegations as well that were never proven. I don't blame any player for not coming out, it would be great if player's did start coming out but we still have a way to go before that will happen. 

This is why. Because of tragedies like Fashanu’s.

My perspective is skewed in fairness. My teenage super sporty son is gay and my mama bear rage at the unfairness of the world often concentrated itself on people like Ronaldo.

as for the allegations, in Ireland we are still reeling from the Belfast rape trial (Paddy Jackson et al.) and attitudes, including mine, have shifted thankfully to believing the victim. 

17 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

I have no opinion on Ronaldo as I don’t follow football/soccer and I know nothing about the rape allegations other than what has been shared here. I think the bolded is widely unfair though. No one is obligated to share their sexuality with anyone else if they don’t feel comfortable or safe doing so. He is not responsible for other people feeling comfortable coming out - he is only responsible for living his life the way he sees fit and if that means he is gay and he’s concealing it then he has every right to do so if that’s what’s best for him.

Again, from my skewed perspective, I feel as a global superstar and role model, he has some responsibility for others. But I know that if I’m really objective, that he probably does not. 

Edited June 12, 2019 by Irishy

[VelociRapture]

1 hour ago, Irishy said:

This is why. Because of tragedies like Fashanu’s.

My perspective is skewed in fairness. My teenage super sporty son is gay and my mama bear rage at the unfairness of the world often concentrated itself on people like Ronaldo.

as for the allegations, in Ireland we are still reeling from the Belfast rape trial (Paddy Jackson et al.) and attitudes, including mine, have shifted thankfully to believing the victim. 

Again, from my skewed perspective, I feel as a global superstar and role model, he has some responsibility for others. But I know that if I’m really objective, that he probably does not. 

He absolutely does not. My brother is Bi and Trans. Would it have been fantastic for him to have role models in the public eye to look up to as a child and young man? Absolutely! But does anyone have an obligation to live openly if they don’t feel comfortable or safe? No. Absolutely not. There is still so much hatred directed towards the LGBTQ+ community - no one is obligated to put themselves out there if it could jeopardize their health or safety or if they simply don’t want to share that part of their lives with the public. 

Its fine to be angry, but don’t take that out on someone who may not even be gay or on people who are hiding who they are. Take it out on the assholes who make this world feel unsafe for people to live their truths in safely. 

[QuiverFullofBooks]

23 hours ago, AnnEggBlandHer? said:

 

My great grandparents got married in secret. The story I was told was that ggm and ggf wanted to have sex, but you couldn’t do that unless you were married, so they got married but continued living home with their parents like nothing had happened until she found out she was pregnant. I question the reasoning and the timeline for sure. 

 

 

My mom told me that was a trend for a while in about the early 1950s, which is probably well after your story took place. The reasoning was that your parents would continue to pay your living expenses for however long it took for a pregnancy to become obvious.

[tabitha2]

Just like The Duggar daughters absolutely had no great social responsibility to announce to the world they had been molested and certainly not to become some sort of Spokespeople though that choice was unfortunately denied them in the end Ronaldo only needs to do what is best for him and his family in regards to safety, privacy and Mental /Emotional well being.  

[xenobia]

Family secrets have a tendency to be much harder to hold on to these days because of DNA-tests. I've read/watched a lot of stories about people who found out that they have unknown siblings, were adopted and other things. I do get that it's hard to talk about certain things, but it's much harder to be surprised later on in life when a stranger - who you are related to - knocks on your door (or send you an e-mail). 

[IsmeWeatherwax]

Ah I love the old famo secrets! My Father spent MONTHS trying to find his Grandfathers birth cert, for genealogy, he knew the man therefore he did exist.. turns out he was born in the Cardiff Workhouse and his Mother was unmarried *shock!*. This was South Wales 1871. She married a man when the boy was 18 months and moved back to the village and had a few more kids. No one knew, my Dad reckons his own Dad never knew. You didn't need a birth cert really, so it was quite easy to keep quiet. We decided not to trace the step-dads family back as we don't think he was the Dad. My son looks like me, I look like my Dad, he looks like his dad, he looks like his Dad, and his Dad...doesn't but the younger boys do. So frustrating as we'll never know who he was.

When I was 10 my Mum and sister sat me down and told me that Mum had been married before and my 2 sisters and brother (all much older than me) were from that marriage, Dad wasn't their Dad even tho they call him that. All I was hoping for was them to tell me he wasn't my Dad either, but sadly that wasn't the case. It didn't and doesn't bother me, they my fam and thats it.

THEN when I was 12 my sis let slip that Mother had had a baby 18 months before she married my Dad and gave him up for adoption ?, and yes tis true! Now that did shock me, I'm 42 next week so it was only late 1970's not 1870's! 

[tabitha2]

My dad was a 1950s drunken backseat baby and His bio mother gave him to my grandparents. Somehow my father contacted his bio or she contacted him and they talked on the phone and a letter was exchanged. But my mother said she did not seem that interested in her son, the letter was lost and all I have is a picture of an old women holding a dog. All mom remembers the woman’s name was Hance or Hansen and she lived in Missouri. Mom doesn’t seem to want to talk more about it so I will never know more.

[mollysmom]

Ever since I was little I thought I was adopted and I still think I am. I find it hard to believe that a real mother would tell her child she hates her (repeatedly) and do some of the unthinkable things she did to me. (and now won't even speak to me) I've always thought my aunt (her sister) was really my mom. It would not surprise me one bit. I want to know so bad but I'm too scared to ask.

[Irishy]

11 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

He absolutely does not. My brother is Bi and Trans. Would it have been fantastic for him to have role models in the public eye to look up to as a child and young man? Absolutely! But does anyone have an obligation to live openly if they don’t feel comfortable or safe? No. Absolutely not. There is still so much hatred directed towards the LGBTQ+ community - no one is obligated to put themselves out there if it could jeopardize their health or safety or if they simply don’t want to share that part of their lives with the public. 

Its fine to be angry, but don’t take that out on someone who may not even be gay or on people who are hiding who they are. Take it out on the assholes who make this world feel unsafe for people to live their truths in safely. 

Yes, like I did say, if I am truly objective, I accept that he does not have that responsibility. I pride myself on my ability to think critically usually, but this guy gives me a red mist. It probably doesn’t help that he’s such a complete prick.

Anyway I do take your point. I hope your brother is doing ok. It’s so fucking hard out there.

[tabitha2]

2 hours ago, mollysmom said:

Ever since I was little I thought I was adopted and I still think I am. I find it hard to believe that a real mother would tell her child she hates her (repeatedly) and do some of the unthinkable things she did to me. (and now won't even speak to me) I've always thought my aunt (her sister) was really my mom. It would not surprise me one bit. I want to know so bad but I'm too scared to ask.

 

My mother is most definitely my mother but she says and does some hateful, hurtful  things to me.Being biologically a mother who shares your DNA does not a “real” mother make. 

[VelociRapture]

2 hours ago, Irishy said:

Yes, like I did say, if I am truly objective, I accept that he does not have that responsibility. I pride myself on my ability to think critically usually, but this guy gives me a red mist. It probably doesn’t help that he’s such a complete prick.

Anyway I do take your point. I hope your brother is doing ok. It’s so fucking hard out there.

Thank you. My brother is doing well. Not everyone in our family really “gets” it, but everyone has been accepting and loving towards him anyways and that’s been a massive help during his transition. He’s also lucky to live in a part of the US that is rather Trans-friendly - like in how they allow birth certificates to be changed to reflect someone’s true gender. As far as I know he hasn’t faced too much hate for who he is, but I also doubt he’d share much with me if he has - I’m a fairly overprotective sister at times (as is our older sister) and he might think we’d overreact. Which, you know, is kind of my job as his big sister. ? 

He still had some pretty significant struggles when he was younger though. It took him a very long time to come to terms with his identity and he has told me he was actually pretty homophobic for a period of time as a result. It’s taken a lot of time, work, and understanding but I’m really proud of the young man he’s become and I’m proud he’s become such a fantastic advocate for his community. 

I hope your son is doing well. I know it can’t always be easy to be gay, but I think things have been getting better in a lot of places slowly. It sounds like you’re a very loving and supportive mom and that alone can make a huge difference to a lot of LGBTQ+ people.