Michaela & Brandon Keilen 5: She Goes By Michaela

[lumpentheologie]

2 hours ago, Scoodilypoop said:

It was specifically stated that one of her rules is that when they make ginger bread houses they don't eat candy while making them. They can only eat the candy when they eat the entire ginger bread house. It was weird. She also made one of the boys (Jackson, maybe?) apologize for sneaking some candy because he was "setting a bad example."

 

However, I completely agree that she is likely to blanket train and be extremely strict (abusive) with her own children, no matter how long she waits to have a baby. She believes it is in the best interest of the children and has even stated in the past that she would be strict with her children. 

Ugh, this makes me wonder if she saw the whole thing more as a form of training them to obedience and self-denial than a fun game.  

These people are so broken inside, and it's so easy to forget that when we see tons of pics where they look so happy. Evil, evil cult.  

[llucie]

Ups wrong thread sorry

Edited June 4, 2019 by llucie
mistake

[QuiverFullofBooks]

Just now, llucie said:

So is normal in their circles to post photos of caskets or what? when JillRod did it we all asumed it was one more of her excentric behaviour, but aparently Kelly also thinks its ok to post photos of the casket of other peoples children. And i really hope the babies are alive in the first picture because if not she is even more morbid than JillRod. 

Where is this?

[llucie]

Just now, QuiverFullofBooks said:

Where is this?

I reposted it in the bates thread, because i thought i was posting there in the first place. You can see the morbid post by kelly in the oficial bates intagram account.

[QuiverFullofBooks]

5 minutes ago, llucie said:

I reposted it in the bates thread, because i thought i was posting there in the first place. You can see the morbid post by kelly in the oficial bates intagram account.

It was at the end of the post and relatively tasteful. Not JRod level awful at all.

[melon]

On 5/31/2019 at 8:35 PM, Ali said:

She did not let her brothers eat any candy while they were decorating gingerbread houses and punished one of them who could not resist. It seems cruel to let them play with candy and not let them eat any. I imagine she would be pretty strict. 

Yes,and she made them eat what she cooked,too.They also had to get up early,at 7:00 am.I think she'd be strict,too.

But I have a friend and her 4 sons...10,7,6 and 4,they also get up around 7 am,and they all have chores,and they eat what she cooks,too.They aren't allowed to have candy very often,but they recently had a lemonade stand and raked some leaves for their neighbors,and she said they were looking forward to spending their money on the ice cream truck.Her boys are very well behaved and just as sweet as they can be.

They follow a mostly vegetarian diet,for health reasons,but she told me she wants her sons to choose.

[Melissa1977]

I' m not going to defend Michaela (I don't like people so rigid) but I wonder if she putting strict rules was a way to educate those wild children. She loves them and probably hates how unescheduled and lazy they are becoming. Megafamilies all start with a lot of rules and timetables but most of them.reach a point where chaos becomes the reality. A lot of fundie mothers have stated that they can't avoid being late and implied the low homeschooling level. 

Also, all the married Bates girls have shown interest for healthy food. If Michaela is so responsible, she must know that her little.siblings are eating crap and I understamd her trying to make them eat a healthy meal. The problem is that forcing feeding is a bad way and does not work at all.

My final point is that it must be difficult for some people born in a extremely strict environtment, see how their little siblings are raised differently. Tori complained how about the little ones were spoiled. Michaela may think that she was raised properly (scheduled, beaten, with a lot of chores) and as a consequence, try to put her siblings in a stricter way of life when she's having them.

[just_ordinary]

1 hour ago, Melissa1977 said:

I' m not going to defend Michaela (I don't like people so rigid) but I wonder if she putting strict rules was a way to educate those wild children. She loves them and probably hates how unescheduled and lazy they are becoming. Megafamilies all start with a lot of rules and timetables but most of them.reach a point where chaos becomes the reality. A lot of fundie mothers have stated that they can't avoid being late and implied the low homeschooling level. 

Also, all the married Bates girls have shown interest for healthy food. If Michaela is so responsible, she must know that her little.siblings are eating crap and I understamd her trying to make them eat a healthy meal. The problem is that forcing feeding is a bad way and does not work at all.

My final point is that it must be difficult for some people born in a extremely strict environtment, see how their little siblings are raised differently. Tori complained how about the little ones were spoiled. Michaela may think that she was raised properly (scheduled, beaten, with a lot of chores) and as a consequence, try to put her siblings in a stricter way of life when she's having them.

From all we know, getting up at 07:00 (probably when Michael and Brandon get up) and expect them to eat what she cooked isn’t the worst that could happen to the children parenting wise. I don’t get the problem with getting up early (for once?) at all to be honest. Forced eating is not a good concept though. She could have offered sandwiches (easy to make to taste) instead? But to expect them eat have a somewhat healthy dinner instead of fatty fast food or sweets is fine in my opinion. They are guests at her house after all and it’s ok to expect them to adapt to a certain point. I am much more worried if there had been some lessons on obedience off camera to be honest.

[Icea]

Yeah, I don’t think Michael was being too strict in that episode either. At my house (both growing up and now as an adult) we/I have the rule to not eat any candies while making the gingerbread house, and you can only eat the leftover ones after the decorating is done, IF there are any leftover candies. Asking a child to apologize for sneaking candies after specifically told not to seems appropriate to me too.

I do think that Michael would be way more strict than I think is appropriate, and probably use some questionable ways to discipline her own children, but what we saw in that episode seemed perfectly fine to me. ?‍♀️

[JermajestyDuggar]

I kind of hope the older ones who had very different upbringings compared to the littlest ones think about why that is. Maybe they will think about the fact that having 19 kids means you parent the older ones differently than the younger ones. And it isn’t fair or overall a good thing for the family. Zach seems to think it isn’t fair. Tori seems to think they are spoiled. Michael must think they need to have a little more of a schedule. 

I personally like to see adult fundies realize their parents aren’t as perfect as they once thought they were. It forces them question other things about their upbringing. 

[rebeccawriter01]

Part of the whole don't eat the candy may have simply been a logistical issue. I think she had three-five of the boys in that small apartment at that time. If all three popped pieces of candy in their mouths multiple times during the decorating, they could have run out. Additionally, I don't remember if it was said, but it could have been close to mealtime and/or bedtime. 

Prior to studying education and becoming a mother, I was more of a control freak about things like craft projects. It took a while for me to recognize the basics of human growth and development and behavior management. Children aren't mini-adults. They don't have the same reactions and behaviors that an adult would have in such a situation. Expecting otherwise leaves you disappointed. I'm not saying to let the kids go wild. Instead, it is better to direct their behavior into making good choices. A good question for them would have been do they want to build and decorate houses or did they just want to eat the candy. She could have presented it as they would get the candy at the end, but by building the houses they would have fun too. Or even as a resource budgeting activity by giving them each equal amounts of candy. If you eat it, your house will be bare. If you decorate it, you get a cute house that you could have later ate.  

[VineHeart137]

4 minutes ago, rebeccawriter01 said:

Part of the whole don't eat the candy may have simply been a logistical issue. I think she had three-five of the boys in that small apartment at that time. If all three popped pieces of candy in their mouths multiple times during the decorating, they could have run out. Additionally, I don't remember if it was said, but it could have been close to mealtime and/or bedtime. 

Prior to studying education and becoming a mother, I was more of a control freak about things like craft projects. It took a while for me to recognize the basics of human growth and development and behavior management. Children aren't mini-adults. They don't have the same reactions and behaviors that an adult would have in such a situation. Expecting otherwise leaves you disappointed. I'm not saying to let the kids go wild. Instead, it is better to direct their behavior into making good choices. A good question for them would have been do they want to build and decorate houses or did they just want to eat the candy. She could have presented it as they would get the candy at the end, but by building the houses they would have fun too. Or even as a resource budgeting activity by giving them each equal amounts of candy. If you eat it, your house will be bare. If you decorate it, you get a cute house that you could have later ate.  

I'm almost positive that one of the boys said this was the case- They have a history in the Bates household of eating the candy and not having enough to actually decorate the houses which was why Michael enforced that rule.

Honestly most of that episode really reflected more poorly on Gil and Kelly than on Michael. Most of what Michael was telling them to do wasn't actually unreasonable, the boys just weren't used to doing things like going to bed and waking up at a certain time. But I do still think Michael would be the most rigid, koolaid-doling mom of all the Bates kids.

[LillyP]

I'm normally the first person to roll my eyes when people like the pull the "you'll think differently when you have your own kids" but honestly this is a classic example. I can totally admit that I used to be way more rigid with rules for the kids I was watching, especially when I was subbing in the schools. Now that I have a kid, while I'm still a rule enforcer, you honestly do tend to lighten up a bit once you become a parent and realize some things just aren't worth the battle. To the kids it's a fun activity where you get to eat candy, but to Michaela it's a craft project. They have two entirely different perspectives. 

All that being said, I don't doubt that if she ever does have kids she will likely be a pretty strict parent. 

[AliceInFundyland]

I don't doubt her kool-aidness and fundieness. This episode is several years old now. I think we tend to trot it out a little bit much as an example of Michael's extreme behaviors. Edited show, everyone. And time passes. Let's not forget that.

[JordynDarby5]

That episode made me wonder if Michael was in charge of discipline growing up or if not who was. I can't decide if she was strict or not. She seemed like it but I remember how the boys and well everyone else behaved in Alyssa's house and at their grandparents house. They bragged about breaking their hammock, one of the girls kept ignoring Jane who told her to get down off the table, they all acted so obnoxious at both places. After seeing that I can see why Michael would be strict. 

[OyToTheVey]

1 hour ago, JordynDarby5 said:

That episode made me wonder if Michael was in charge of discipline growing up or if not who was. I can't decide if she was strict or not. She seemed like it but I remember how the boys and well everyone else behaved in Alyssa's house and at their grandparents house. They bragged about breaking their hammock, one of the girls kept ignoring Jane who told her to get down off the table, they all acted so obnoxious at both places. After seeing that I can see why Michael would be strict. 

If they behaved like that in my house they wouldn’t be invited back tbh. There’s absolutely no reason why Carlin had to stand on a covered table with her shoes on. It just seems like because of their volume that after Zac, Michael and Erin they gave up trying. It’s quite obvious that Jeb and Judson have a lot less discipline. They’re so busy counting their kids when they get out of the car, they don’t go over how to behave in the store. Or someone else’s house. Janey was very annoyed and happy when they left. But as a gramma she seems close to her grandkids when she sees them individually. She seems closest to Zac and Alyssa. 

[RosyDaisy]

For me, how she talked to them, not the not eating candy. She is their sister, not their mother.

[rebeccawriter01]

1 hour ago, RosyDaisy said:

For me, how she talked to them, not the not eating candy. She is their sister, not their mother.

For all intents and purposes, she has been their mother. Whether it was because she just loves kids and babies or if it because Kelly Jo used her as the chief caregiver, she fed, toilet trained, dressed (made and mended clothes), etc. When her mother was still popping out kids, she was the mother when Kelly Jo was too far along to do things or when she had just had the baby.

Look back at the TLC episodes and the early episodes of Bringing Up Bates, the kids ran to her for things when they got hurt or wanted something. In some cases, they bypassed Kelly Jo all together. When she would leave to see Brandon for a few days, some of those kids cried and clung to her. Those same kids waved when Kelly Jo left for a few days. 

My mother is an oldest child of a large group. There is a blurry line between sister and mother sometimes in those cases. It doesn't mean my grandmother was a bad mother or that my mother is a control freak. I personally disagree with the way my mother was raised, but she is extremely close with her younger siblings even now. They call her constantly for advice or help. I'm an only child, but it feels like having my own siblings sometimes when the age difference between me and my younger two uncles is somewhat like Allie Jane, Carson, and Bradley have with Jud and Jeb.  

[JordynDarby5]

4 hours ago, rebeccawriter01 said:

For all intents and purposes, she has been their mother. Whether it was because she just loves kids and babies or if it because Kelly Jo used her as the chief caregiver, she fed, toilet trained, dressed (made and mended clothes), etc. When her mother was still popping out kids, she was the mother when Kelly Jo was too far along to do things or when she had just had the baby.

Look back at the TLC episodes and the early episodes of Bringing Up Bates, the kids ran to her for things when they got hurt or wanted something. In some cases, they bypassed Kelly Jo all together. When she would leave to see Brandon for a few days, some of those kids cried and clung to her. Those same kids waved when Kelly Jo left for a few days. 

My mother is an oldest child of a large group. There is a blurry line between sister and mother sometimes in those cases. It doesn't mean my grandmother was a bad mother or that my mother is a control freak. I personally disagree with the way my mother was raised, but she is extremely close with her younger siblings even now. They call her constantly for advice or help. I'm an only child, but it feels like having my own siblings sometimes when the age difference between me and my younger two uncles is somewhat like Allie Jane, Carson, and Bradley have with Jud and Jeb.  

Yeah, she really has been their mother. Kelly was pretty much an incubator. The person who carried them for 9 months and tossed them to which ever daughter's turn it was to raised the baby. 

[RosyDaisy]

I realize Michael practically raised her siblings. But, she isn't their mother. It's just all kinds of messed up.

[HermioneSparrow]

12 hours ago, RosyDaisy said:

I realize Michael practically raised her siblings. But, she isn't their mother. It's just all kinds of messed up.

You are completely right but this isn't Michael's fault, this is Kelly and Gil's fault. She should be having a normal sibling relationship with them but she was put to raise those kids and the roles are completely messed up by now, she probably feels like their mother and those kids definitely treat her like a parent while they don't do that with Kelly, who only bothers to get along with them when they're grown up and even then, she just wants to be their bff.

[Tangy Bee]

But what was there left to do for her back then? Not like she had many options. This is one of many cultures that is forced at an early age. I remember when TLC first introduced the Bates while they were visiting the Duggars. Michaela was carrying a baby sibling around. Later during the show it is revealed that Kelly is pregnant again. Micheala probably has helped change diapers since she 8 or 9 years old. The reality is Kelly couldn't have pulled this off if it had not been for Micheala. My mom had my youngest sister when I was 18. Love her dearly and enjoyed babysitting...but you better believe I was TOO happy to give her back when Ma got home?

[justmy2cents]

When a Sibling is 20 years older it's not going to be your average sibling relationship. The older sibling is more like an additional parent, especially in their cult. My friend is 20 years older than her sister and was a lot more involved in raising her  and helping with school than their mom (who was an immigrant with poor English.) It would be difficult for Micheala to all of a sudden have a different relationship with them once she married and moved out. She is still an additional parent.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

1 hour ago, justmy2cents said:

When a Sibling is 20 years older it's not going to be your average sibling relationship. The older sibling is more like an additional parent, especially in their cult. My friend is 20 years older than her sister and was a lot more involved in raising her  and helping with school than their mom (who was an immigrant with poor English.) It would be difficult for Micheala to all of a sudden have a different relationship with them once she married and moved out. She is still an additional parent.

Agreed.  Not fundy but my sisters are both over a decade older than I and it is very different than a relationship.

They got married when I was 9.  Woh large age spans there is no way for it to be the typical relashionship of siblings who grow up together.

FWIW it’s why I had my kids all close together.

[is.it.real]

Agreed.  Not fundy but my sisters are both over a decade older than I and it is very different than a relationship.
They got married when I was 9.  Woh large age spans there is no way for it to be the typical relashionship of siblings who grow up together.
FWIW it’s why I had my kids all close together.

Age gaps really define relationships! I’m 5.5 and 8 years older than my brothers and we grew up in completely different circumstances. For example when I was growing up we had very little money, by the time my brothers noticed things like that we had a much more money. (This resulted in that I still view take our pizza as a luxury and they view it as a standard meal, they went on vacation abroad with our parents I never did etc.) Our parents also got divorced when I was 18 and brothers were 10 and 12.5 years old, I sort of moved away from home at that time, and they lived every other week with each parent.

Even if we are in the same family our relationship is weird. We have very few memories in common. Our view of the world differs a lot.

We are trying for children right now. And I’m adamant that I don’t want an age difference like the one I grew up with between possible future children. I want them to have common experiences, and hopefully a strong relationship!