Zach & Whitney Bates Part 7: Fundie Babypocalypse in Full Effect

[nelliebelle1197]

22 hours ago, AussieKrissy said:

Well that doesn't sound like it bodes well for quality.

Well now you have answered something for me about Josie. I always wondered how her skills rate compared to our standards. 

You have to have a tertiary degree (three years for one day a week, while working an apprenticeship in the industry, I think)  and do an hairdresser and the pay scale goes up.

I do believe that there is a one year private course you can do to become a "hairdresser" that is quite expensive.

From my understanding salons don't like hiring people with these qualifications as they don't view the education and experience as adequate.

I always assumed that Josie had this type of degree and always thought I would not let her touch my hair.

From what I interpret you have written, Josie must be the highest level of qualification.

It also might be because no one seems to value a crown education that I wrongly or rightly assumed it may be sub par for hairdressing, 

 My husband did about the same for plumbing - he had business and technical classes, drafting, design and that jazz and then a couple years apprentice. 

Quality is lacking here among many tradesmen. He once did some plumbing as a favor for a friend of ours in large Victorian and nearly got into a punch up (actually I think he shoved the guy; he is a Kiwi after all) with an inspector who tried to tell him the work was wrong; it was actually too complicated for the inspector to understand as he had applied NZ standards and then replicated an updated Victorian plumbing design to fit the period of the house. Inspector was not used to complex plumbing design and just did not get it.  My husband actually was a lead plumber on the Beehive in Welly so he sorta knows what he is doing! 

44 minutes ago, backyard sylph said:

It's quite simple. If all you could say without straining at gnats is "cute kids," or something about the shoes or dress, it can stay where it started instead of migrating here.

If they're photographed swallowing a camel, that's another matter.

The dress thing is okay sometimes too! Think about that Carlin is obviously wearing a bikini pic and the hypocrisy that displayed! 

[backyard sylph]

3 minutes ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

 My husband did about the same for plumbing - he had business and technical classes, drafting, design and that jazz and then a couple years apprentice. 

Quality is lacking here among many tradesmen. He once did some plumbing as a favor for a friend of ours in large Victorian and nearly got into a punch up (actually I think he shoved the guy; he is a Kiwi after all) with an inspector who tried to tell him the work was wrong; it was actually too complicated for the inspector to understand as he had applied NZ standards and then replicated an updated Victorian plumbing design to fit the period of the house. Inspector was not used to complex plumbing design and just did not get it.  My husband actually was a lead plumber on the Beehive in Welly so he sorta knows what he is doing! 

The dress thing is okay sometimes too! Think about that Carlin is obviously wearing a bikini pic and the hypocrisy that displayed! 

That's a swallowing a camel example. ? It's a Biblical thing.

But speaking of that, I firmly believe that she and some of the others don't even realize they don't believe all they say. If you can parse that.

I mean, Lawson has apparently joined a gang, but several of em are just mostly talking the talk.

[nelliebelle1197]

4 minutes ago, backyard sylph said:

That's a swallowing a camel example. ? It's a Biblical thing.

But speaking of that, I firmly believe that she and some of the others don't even realize they don't believe all they say. If you can parse that.

I mean, Lawson has apparently joined a gang, but several of em are just mostly talking the talk.

I can and I think you are exactly right. It is true with a lot of fervent religious folk of all ilk, even educated ones.  It is particularly bad with the girls in families like the Bates, Duggars, Mortons, etc.  The boys may be undereducated but the girls are undereducated then shaped into homeschooling housewives with limited agency and critical thinking skills.

Edited May 25, 2019 by nelliebelle1197

[BennettLeland]

Here's something I have thought about for awhile, and with all of the recent talk over in Carlin's thread about "fundie approved mates" it brought it back up:

I find it interesting that Zack and Whitney were ever able to get together given that she had no place in the fundie world. Do we think KJ and G were willing to give their blessing because he had already had a "failed" courtship with someone from fundy-land? do we think they were willing to allow an "outsider" because Zack is a boy and therefore they aren't as protective/concerned because...you know...misogyny? 

They all seem to genuinely like Whitney, but clearly coming fro the outside she carried with her "secular" experiences, which clearly resulted in the horrific sin of kissing before marriage, not to mention she wore/wears pants, went to school etc. I am intrigued that they were willing to get on board with that. 

Doubt anyone actually has an answer to this, but wondered if anyone else had this thought before. 

[Melissa1977]

23 minutes ago, BennettLeland said:

They all seem to genuinely like Whitney, but clearly coming fro the outside she carried with her "secular" experiences, which clearly resulted in the horrific sin of kissing before marriage, not to mention she wore/wears pants, went to school etc. I am intrigued that they were willing to get on board with that

She was less fundie than Bates but still her foster parents were very conservative. Whitney made a big effort to fit in the Bates family. I think it was her who decided the skirts only commintment and who tried to be full-fundie, while Zach was open to go fundie-lite. Whit clearly needed to be accepted in the big family and I wonder if cutting ties with her foster family was a way to honour Bates beliefs.

So Bates were not accepting a secular girl. They were accepting what they thought was a former-rebellious girl willing to become a fundamentalist wife and mother. I wonder if they embraced the sinner, somehow.

Anyway, both whitney and Zach seem to have find a comfortable position in a mainstream (while extremely conservative) way of life. I think Kelly and Gil would be bitter about it if all the other kids were still frumpy-fundies. But most of them.are living like Zach, so they cannot complain. 

[formergothardite]

I think it is a combination of things.

1. Misogyny. They clearly have different standards for their sons than they do their daughters. 

2. They put Zach through public humiliation with his failed courtship. Gil and Kelly made money making it all public and they had to feel guilty on some level. 

3. They had to be aware that if they didn't go along with this there was a high chance he would go full rebellion. A son rejecting the family and possibly going public with the skeletons in their closets would kill their harmless image. Better to give in on this and keep him in the fold. 

4. Whitney came from a compatible background. It wasn't like she was raised in an environment of inclusion. She was willing to change to accommodate them too. 

5. Zach didn't rock the boat too much. Sure he may make so snide comments pointing out their hypocrisy, but he is still a part of their show which is essential to keeping up their fluffy image and raking in money. I think if one child refused to be on the show for whatever reason, Gil and Kelly would be furious. 

[nickelodeon]

2 hours ago, BennettLeland said:

They all seem to genuinely like Whitney, but clearly coming fro the outside she carried with her "secular" experiences, which clearly resulted in the horrific sin of kissing before marriage, not to mention she wore/wears pants, went to school etc. I am intrigued that they were willing to get on board with that. 

It is interesting how much of an "outsider" Whitney was in comparison with the first few Bates-in-laws, sons of prominent IBLP members or otherwise connected to the organization. I personally think that if Whitney hadn't been so quick to conform (adopting the uniform! kissing is a crime! whatever the fuck that "I repent of my teenage actions" redemption thing was!) then the Bateses would not have been so receptive. IDK though.

[rebeccawriter01]

4 minutes ago, nickelodeon said:

It is interesting how much of an "outsider" Whitney was in comparison with the first few Bates-in-laws, sons of prominent IBLP members or otherwise connected to the organization. I personally think that if Whitney hadn't been so quick to conform (adopting the uniform! kissing is a crime! whatever the fuck that "I repent of my teenage actions" redemption thing was!) then the Bateses would not have been so receptive. IDK though.

I think Whitney will continue being on the fringes with Kelly Jo until one or more of the other boys in the family get married. For her sake, I hope they don't marry IBLP girls since it is likely to make things rougher for her. 

No matter how much she conforms and joins in on the beliefs and practices, she is still going to be an outsider to them. A little too... 

I don't think any of the boys are likely to marry a female lawyer, doctor, stripper, former drug addict, etc. But someone else who has a different upbringing and is secure in that would do wonders for Whitney who seems eager to please (more so before than now). 

[justmy2cents]

When I first joined FJ there was a poster here who claimed to know the family and said that Kelly was very unhappy with Zach's interest in Whitney. The source even claimed that Kelly put out feelers to find him another option for a wife, but there were no takers. Who knows if it's true, though it does sound plausible to me. Anyway, it seems like it took a while for her to be accepted. Zach's sisters convinced her to go skirts only. Imagine what she felt when she saw Alyssa start wearing pants. That's when she abandoned the skirts only rule, at least publically. 

Edited May 31, 2019 by justmy2cents

[rebeccawriter01]

32 minutes ago, justmy2cents said:

When I first joined FJ there was a poster here who claimed to know the family and said that Kelly was very unhappy with Zach's interest in Whitney. The source even claimed that Kelly put out feelers to find him another option for a wife, but there were no takers. Who knows if it's true, though it does sound plausible to me. Anyway, it seems like it took a while for her to be accepted. Zach's sisters convinced her to go skirts only. Imagine what she felt when she saw Alyssa start wearing pants. That's when she abandoned the skirts only rule, at least publically. 

I don't know them personally. I do have family in that area who have interactions with some of the married older ones...Erin/Chad, Zach, Michaela before she got married. None of them specifically said anything to me about Whitney being not liked by Kelly Jo, but that is my interpretation based on some of the interactions on the show and social media. They did say that around the time they started seeing each other, Kelly Jo became very outspoken around Anderson County (and who knows where else) about what she wanted in both daughters and sons in law. When Zach and Whitney got married, the family blog was still being populated weekly with more and more pictures of Erin and Chad and just one or two of Zach and Whitney. People called her out on it and she said that she would post more but that there were just so many of Erin and Chad that she wanted to share those first. Then she started posting Alyssa and John pics. I realize that Zach is a son and moms tend to be more excited for a daughter's wedding since she can be more involved, but still...Whitney was still having her home issues (adoptive v. natural parents) and probably would have welcomed help with the wedding. Maybe not, but I think she would have seen it as a way to get in with his parents a little better. 

In general, we see Whitney seem to latch on to the same words/vocabulary as those she is around, trying out the words as her own. Carlin does this too by the way. You can almost see the wheels turning in her head as she tries to come up with things to say that will make her more likable to Zach's sisters and his parents. I don't know how they announced their pregnancy with Bradley, but they tend to do make big announcements to the whole family rather than have one on one time (couple to couple) with his parents. When the girls wanted the pool party, she was tripping over herself to do anything Kelly Jo wanted or needed, even volunteering to go buy a cake when Gil bought mix instead of an actual cake. She glows if Kelly Jo says something positive about her. Kelly Jo, who can be quite pushy, is actually appropriate when it comes to Whitney when she was in labor and didn't demand to be there (she was invited). 

I don't doubt they (Gil and Kelly Jo) wanted someone for Zach who was more fundy. And the lack of Bates boys marrying and procreating means she is mom to the only kids so far carrying on the Bates name. My mom is one of 8 kids (the oldest). The girls all married first and then one of the boys. His wife (now ex) struggled because the sisters hated her, the brothers didn't care, and my grandparents never thought she was good enough. However, after other brothers got married to trashier women, she didn't seem so bad and was more embraced by the family. Out of the five brothers only one is still married to his first wife and she is as trashy as they come (drug use, inappropriate in every way, and crazy). 

[TeaELSee]

There is a new episode on at 9pm central, I had no idea until I checked my DVR. This one is about Zach and Whitney.

 

 

 

 

[VBOY9977]

1 hour ago, TeaELSee said:

There is a new episode on at 9pm central, I had no idea until I checked my DVR. This one is about Zach and Whitney.

 

 

 

 

It’s a recap episode of when they had Bradley. Up is doing a baby special 

[JordynDarby5]

7 hours ago, justmy2cents said:

When I first joined FJ there was a poster here who claimed to know the family and said that Kelly was very unhappy with Zach's interest in Whitney. The source even claimed that Kelly put out feelers to find him another option for a wife, but there were no takers. Who knows if it's true, though it does sound plausible to me. Anyway, it seems like it took a while for her to be accepted. Zach's sisters convinced her to go skirts only. Imagine what she felt when she saw Alyssa start wearing pants. That's when she abandoned the skirts only rule, at least publically. 

I remember hearing that too. I don't know if its true or not but I could definitely see Kelly doing that. 

[nelliebelle1197]

15 hours ago, rebeccawriter01 said:

I think Whitney will continue being on the fringes with Kelly Jo until one or more of the other boys in the family get married. For her sake, I hope they don't marry IBLP girls since it is likely to make things rougher for her. 

No matter how much she conforms and joins in on the beliefs and practices, she is still going to be an outsider to them. A little too... 

I don't think any of the boys are likely to marry a female lawyer, doctor, stripper, former drug addict, etc. But someone else who has a different upbringing and is secure in that would do wonders for Whitney who seems eager to please (more so before than now). 

On the fringes? I am not sure where you are pulling Whitney being on the outside or the fringes these days from at all. She is in the middle of everything. She has been for years. She was Carlin's "maid" of honor. That does not come unless you are accepted.

Edited May 31, 2019 by nelliebelle1197

[rebeccawriter01]

8 minutes ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

On the fringes? I am not sure where you are pulling Whitney being on the outside or the fringes these days from at all. She is in the middle of everything. She has been for years. She was Carlin's "maid" of honor. That does not come unless you are accepted.

The sisters seem to have accepted her. There's still a weird vibe from Kelly Jo. But Kelly Jo seems to pay the most attention to daughters getting married or having a baby. 

There's almost always a bit of a gap between the mother of the son and his wife, but their gap just seems extra large at times to me. 

[llucie]

To be honest i get the exact oposite felling. That the fam accepted Whitney really fast, and she is really favored. She even seems to get along with her sisters in law better than some of them between each other!

Kelly birthday posts to Whit seem more heartfelt that some she does for her children...She is up there with Chad being praised as the perfect in law, i think it will be dificult for the future daughters in law to compete with Whitney, they will get compared to her all the time and lose in the comparison.

Edited May 31, 2019 by llucie
.

[justmy2cents]

While I do believe Kelly wasn't thrilled with Zach choosing Whitney at first, I think now she is very much loved by the entire family. At first Kelly was probably worried that Whit would pull Zach away from their beliefs and now she doesn't need to worry about that any more. Whit has completely adapted her lifestyle to fit into their world.

[CaptainFunderpants]

On 5/31/2019 at 9:31 PM, justmy2cents said:

While I do believe Kelly wasn't thrilled with Zach choosing Whitney at first, I think now she is very much loved by the entire family. At first Kelly was probably worried that Whit would pull Zach away from their beliefs and now she doesn't need to worry about that any more. Whit has completely adapted her lifestyle to fit into their world.

ITA. I think Kelly knew Zach was questioning a lot and was worried about losing him, and then him dating an unknown didn't help that. Once Whitney proved she was willing to conform and eager to please, things got a lot better. When the Bates girls became very fond of Whit, things got even better. And then Whit got very good at social media and now I would think Kelly adores her because Whitney represents the Bates brand incredibly well and makes their beliefs look even more harmless.

If I were in Whit's position regarding Alyssa wearing pants upon marriage, I would probably do the same thing. As an in-law, you don't really want to rock the boat, but if a bio kid does it first... Full steam ahead! And Alyssa was not only wearing pants, as far as I remember Alyssa started wearing short shorts and tank tops really soon after marriage.

I get the impression that pants were never Zach's issue; it was female politics, which suck but Whit was wise to abide by.

 

[VelociRapture]

Per Instagram post, Whit was 20w3d yesterday. Her due date should be November 10th based off that. 

[19tacos&counting]

Whitney has been pretty quiet the last month. She’s only posted a few times since Carlin’s wedding. I hope she’s just taking time to enjoy the two little ones before 3 comes along 

[AussieKrissy]

Um so Carlin posted this video to Instagram. So now men are allowed to go shirtless and dance around? I’m pretty sure this is Zach. She was dancing I am assuming that they were doing their wedding dance. 

Dancing and fully shirtless.... 

fundies gown wild. 

[HurricaneBells]

1 hour ago, AussieKrissy said:

Um so Carlin posted this video to Instagram. So now men are allowed to go shirtless and dance around? I’m pretty sure this is Zach. She was dancing I am assuming that they were doing their wedding dance. 

Dancing and fully shirtless.... 

fundies gown wild. 

Did you see the video though, Im still laughing over Zach's... whatever it was. Pure and demure my ass.

[JermajestyDuggar]

Zach was definitely being silly showing off his belly while doing a little dance. I imagine it was a joke because Carlin and Evan were dancing so nicely and there’s Zach in the background. I actually laughed a bit when I saw it. Fundies don’t usually make me laugh intentionally. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

3 hours ago, HurricaneBells said:

Did you see the video though, Im still laughing over Zach's... whatever it was. Pure and demure my ass.

Idk what you see when you look at a shirtless Zach but I’m just as pure and un-defrauded as I was before.

i don’t think they are hypocrites on this point, I think they just know it’s not sexy so who cares?

[HurricaneBells]

11 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Idk what you see when you look at a shirtless Zach but I’m just as pure and un-defrauded as I was before.

i don’t think they are hypocrites on this point, I think they just know it’s not sexy so who cares?

The shirt or lack of did not matter and I dont think they are hypocrites just more real and less perfect than the public image suggests. He "danced" in a suggestive manner and I found it funny, simple.

Edited July 9, 2019 by HurricaneBells
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