Jinjer 49: Westward Ho!

[Vivi_music]

I spent a summer as a tour guide on the D-Day beaches and took TONS of pictures. Pictures of the beaches, the cemetaries where allied soldiers lay to rest, the several memorials and some of theses pics were selfies. I think I took these pictures for me to remember this amazing experience. It was a program for Canadian students, to work abroad in a D-Day museum for the summer. I wanted to take in all that I could while over there. I even have a vivid memory of me and my fellow guides in front of a grave, all smiles while we asked a tourist to take a picture of us. We sent the picture to a lady who had made a donation to the museum a few weeks earlier. The fallen soldier was her grandfather. She was very touched that we took the time to find his grave and lay flowers in her name.

That being said, my job was being a tour guide. Which meant I was there to pass on the story of D-Day and the experience of veterans on to other visitors. At least I know for me I did my job with constant respect for these veterans. Three of my relatives were part of the Normandy campaign so I have heard storie of their sacrifice and their awful experience in war. I was honored to be there and thought of them a lot throughout this experience.

I do admit there were times where the emotions were too intense to even imagine taking a selfie. The Peace Memorial in Caen is one of them. It actually is a museum retelling the story of WWII. And the goal of this place is basically to highlight how horrible war is, in all its facets. It is not a cheerful visit, very heavy and hard, but necessary. I took a few pictures of things in the exhibit or windows during my visit, often to remember some things that were very stricking or facts I wanted to reread. But never a selfie. Same with the Ardenne Abbey. During the Battle of Caen, many Canadian soldiers captured by the Germans are brought to the abbey. Twenty in total were executed in the gardens in defiance of the Geneva conventions concerning the rights of prisoners of war. And to be honest, the feeling when you enter the gardens is just sadness. It surrounds the place. One would have to be completly tone deaf to take a selfie there.

[dawbs]

We have a memorial wall thingy in my town and when my kiddo was little,  the discussion of "no, you can't climb or sit on it....yes, I know other kids are..yes I know those parents are ok with it but you may NOT" was gad a half dozen times. (I did allow climbing on the mounted cannons until they put up a sign not to)

 

But I also used to go sledding in the graveyard in town..and my grandfather  who is now buried there, allowed/ encouraged it.

 

I think we all draw arbitrary lines. But that even kids can get it.  When the kiddo was 7, I had a 2 minute subway conversation on the way to the 9/11 memorial and she was good as gold and respectful (and shout-whispered in that kid way to ask why other people were being jackasses with selfies and pretending to fall in, etc. Which made people quit being jackasses) 

[Lizzybet]

2 hours ago, Don'tlikekoolaid said:

I am an empath and know I would be physically ill if I visited a death camp. I can read about it and watch programs about it, but to stand on that ground and feel all those victims emotions would do me in.

I, too, am an empath (so I’ve been told, but never ‘officially’). It’s often extremely debilitating, and the aftershocks can continue for days. I believe I’m doing others a favor by not being in attendance, as well.

[Shouldabeenacowboy]

1 hour ago, Lizzybet said:

I, too, am an empath (so I’ve been told, but never ‘officially’). It’s often extremely debilitating, and the aftershocks can continue for days. I believe I’m doing others a favor by not being in attendance, as well.

Me three. I got physically sick and had to run outside at the one Holocaust museum I ever visited (the one in Jerusalem) and since that day, I have not attempted another one. Forget a former concentration camp.  

[SilverBeach]

10 hours ago, JillyO said:

I'm obviously not the OP, but I believe @Lgirlrocks was saying that it's disrespectful to compare slavery to abortion, just like it's disrespectful to compare the holocaust to abortion. Not that it's disrespectful to compare slavery to the holocaust.

But how could slavery be compared to abortion?

[JillyO]

1 hour ago, SilverBeach said:

But how could slavery be compared to abortion?

You haven't heard anti-choicers make the comparison between abortion and slavery? Buckle up, it's a doozy: https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/6/9/1863001/-Republicans-peddle-grotesque-abortion-slavery-comparison

[AmericanRose]

So I came across this comment on one of Jinger's maternity pics and I'm pretty sure the hair on the back of my neck is standing up:
"I was praying for you to have a baby and I am so glad God answered those prayers! You look beautiful! We switched to Roku and now stream everything, so I have not yet seen the Counting On episodes where you are pregnant, so I am trying to get all caught up on demand!"

It never occurred to me to pray that someone I didn't even know personally would get pregnant. #creepycreepycreepy Actually, I wouldn't even pray for someone I did know to get pregnant! Granted I don't pray, but... did I mention that's creepy?

[SilverBeach]

22 hours ago, just_ordinary said:

I disagree. I won’t argue against the stand that both are on the same level of unspeakable horror. But both are ways of genocide. 

But the intentions behind it are different. Slavery did not have the sole purpose to completely wipe out black people (as far as I am educated about it- feel free to point me to renowned resources if I am wrong) . That is what concentration camps were about. It wasn’t about the labour those poor souls did there. That was just to get a bit more out of them than just a corpse. But the goal was always erasure. Those camps and gas chambers were built because it was “too expensive“/„waisting ammunition“ to just shoot them (as they did in the beginning). And of course it made it easier to have them all in one place. That is what makes part of the horror for me. The complete absence of emotion but pure efficiency to wipe out humans. And that is why Holocaust is not the same as slavery in my opinion. 

I never said they were the same. If you only knew how many Africans DIED just in the middle passage . Slavery made humans property just like furniture and farm animals. Slaves were also worked until their bodies gave out and then replaced like car parts. That's pretty damn bad in terms of eradicating their humanity, even if their bodies remained. And, like I said, it went on for HUNDREDS OF YEARS. With no reparations yet. Part of the problem with racism in America now is because it has not dealth with the fact that racismis baked into the very fiber of the country, from the very beginning.

Look, you can conduct a dehumanization olympics if you want, I'm not going to engage further on that. Different types of hate are still hate. As a black person personally affected by slavery (it's impossible to trace my ancestors back more than maybe a couple of generations and then only partially), I am sensitive to any implication that one group's suffering is any worse that another. If you are a member of a group persecuted during the Holocaust, you may be especially sensitive to that , which is normal. FWIW, when I watch a movie like Schindlers List, I cry. No question that the Holocaust was a nightmare. Sometimes I question why humans have such a bottomless capacity to hurt others.

I don't have time to educate you on slavery, it's an academic subject of it's own and there are numerous resources available. You can google it if you really want to know more. 

 

 

When black people visit a slave market like in Charleston SC, complete with chains and manacles for children, or one of the ports of no return on the west coast of Africa, we are often overcome with emotion, especially empaths like me. We feel the pain and anguish of our ancestors as they were ripped from their home and deposited on foreign shores to be treated worse than animals. When touring Underground Railroad stops, we feel the fear and hope that escaping slaves felt.  If you are a descendant of a Holocaust or slavery victim, pictures, if you can stand to have them, are fine. Others should proceed with caution and show the utmost respect.  The man who discovered the Titanic (Robert Ballard) was against disturbing the relics and site in any way, as it represented the final resting place of so many souls. To him, the site became sacred ground.  

[SilverBeach]

11 hours ago, JillyO said:

You haven't heard anti-choicers make the comparison between abortion and slavery? Buckle up, it's a doozy: https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/6/9/1863001/-Republicans-peddle-grotesque-abortion-slavery-comparison

I'm not going to read this stupidity. Slaves were encouraged to reproduce because babies were property that didn't have to be paid for, especially after the tansatlantic slave trade was outlawed (although some traders ignored the law). Slave status followed the mother, so slaveowners who impregnated their slaves (primarily by raping them) owned their children, who received no rights of inheritance or even acknowledgment. Ignorance makes me livid.

Edited July 22, 2019 by SilverBeach

[tabitha2]

On many plantations Slave women who bore lots of  children were rewarded with money or new clothes.

Edited July 22, 2019 by tabitha2

[Nikedagain?]

THIS.

 

https://petapixel.com/2017/01/21/artist-shames-disrespectful-holocaust-memorial-tourists-using-photoshop/

[TheMustardCardigan]

The discussion of what constitutes disrespectful behavior at memorials made me think of the WWII Memorial in Washington, DC.  The memorial includes a large fountain pool. I visited with my family as a teen in college. I remember seeing parents and children ignoring the clearly posted signs telling you NOT to get in the water. And yet, here they were, sticking their feet in and wading. I remember being disgusted and thinking this behavior was so tacky.

Here's an article about said activity at the memorial:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/at-wwii-memorial-a-complicated-question-to-wade-or-not-to-wade/2016/07/02/fdc74312-3e0a-11e6-a66f-aa6c1883b6b1_story.html?utm_term=.9db55d2cad4e

I think a selfie in a Holocaust Museum is not in the best taste but it's, I guess, better than disruptive behavior like climbing on a memorial statue like a playground or swimming in a memorial fountain like it's a pool. 

[nausicaa]

Just to clarify, anti-choicers aren't comparing current abortions and abortions during slavery, but rather that they see Roe v. Wade as an unjust law in the same way we now look back on the Fugitive Slave Act and think overturning it is a moral inevitability much the way people now view America's history with slavery. They also compare the dehumanization of people during slavery to the dehumanization of what they see as a fully-fledged human in utero.

I don't agree with them, but I think it's important to understand their points if we're going to refute them. 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

11 hours ago, Nikedagain? said:

THIS.

 

https://petapixel.com/2017/01/21/artist-shames-disrespectful-holocaust-memorial-tourists-using-photoshop/

I'm horrified at the level of cluelessness of people. I'm not sure how anything shocks me anymore but that stupid c&&& doing the hand stand. They seriously need to grab these people being assholes, and force them to watch hours of holocaust film of what went on there, force this clueless jerks to see what clueless jerks they are. 

[libgirl2]

13 hours ago, Nikedagain? said:

THIS.

 

https://petapixel.com/2017/01/21/artist-shames-disrespectful-holocaust-memorial-tourists-using-photoshop/

that makes me physically sick. 

[SilverBeach]

13 hours ago, nausicaa said:

They also compare the dehumanization of people during slavery to the dehumanization of what they see as a fully-fledged human in utero.

People who feel this way know nothing of slavery. 

[TuringMachine]

So people on tumblr are discussing how Jeremy is advertising these glasses named after Alan Turing, a man famously prosecuted for being gay. Some people on IG were having fun with it:

 

Of course I can't get over the fact that the website's description of a Turing Machine is so incorrect it's causing me physical pain.

The Turing Machine is not a computer.  It's not a physical machine at all. It was a thought experiment used to prove the Entscheidungsproblem "decision problem," and in doing so proved the theoretical limitations of computing, as well as provided the first concept of a modern computer.  I don't believe Turing really thought of it as something that could actually be built (it requires infinite memory after all).  Also the machine he built for WW2 was called the bombe, it was based off of an existing Polish device, and wasn't even Turing complete (i.e. can be modeled by a Turing machine).

You might not have known this about me, but this is a topic I care about ?

[CharlieInCharge]

5 minutes ago, TuringMachine said:

You might not have known this about me, but this is a topic I care about ?

This is really your time to shine and I’m loving it ?

[kachuu]

For anyone following Jinger's insta, they went and saw the new Lion King & got plush simbas!

[HermioneSparrow]

20 minutes ago, kachuu said:

For anyone following Jinger's insta, they went and saw the new Lion King & got plush simbas!

I'm pretty sure that's a Discovery Documentary called Serengeti not the new Lion King.

[HereticHick]

7 minutes ago, HermioneSparrow said:

I'm pretty sure that's a Discovery Documentary called Serengeti not the new Lion King.

Yup a new series premiering Aug 4, narrated by Lupita Nyong'o

I'm guessing that Jing and Jeremy went to the LA premiere (nice perk now that they live in LA). I'm glad that they get out and see secular things/

I hope evolution was mentioned. : )

https://www.discovery.com/shows/serengeti

 

Maybe they will get to do Shark Week festivities next week?? [disclaimer: one of my family works for Discovery, and I'm going to a Shark Week event here in DC}

Edited July 24, 2019 by HereticHick

[kachuu]

Omg I am so sorry you guys-- i'm just a hopeful idiot over here ??

 

(My favorite part of this is how blatant the doc's name is and how i so fearlessly ignored it)

Edited July 24, 2019 by kachuu

[JillyO]

Here's the description:

Quote

SERENGETI gives viewers a front row seat to witness how the animal experience isn’t so different from our own.

Isn't that basically heresy in their book? Saying the animal experience is not so different from our own is dangerously close to saying humans evolved from monkeys!

[Bobology]

2 hours ago, JillyO said:

Isn't that basically heresy in their book? Saying the animal experience is not so different from our own is dangerously close to saying humans evolved from monkeys!

And... that animals have souls

[WiseGirl]

3 hours ago, HereticHick said:

I'm guessing that Jing and Jeremy went to the LA premiere (nice perk now that they live in LA). I'm glad that they get out and see secular things/

They even walked the red carpet per Radar Online.