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Georgiana

Lori Alexander 66: An Assortment of Cheap Whines

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ColeJo

I hate it when people advocate going to the ER for routine healthcare. This is how EMTALA is abused. This doesn’t solve the problems in our healthcare system. A kid who can’t breathe needs the resources from an ER more than someone who uses them for primary care. We need to do better at providing preventative care to reduce healthcare costs. ERs are not built to do that. 

I even hate it when the Bates do this. People like her do not care about the healthcare disparities in the US. She is super ignorant as she is about everything else. She probably doesn’t believe in health screenings unless it is for herself.

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Alisamer

"Anyone can walk into an ER and receive help?" Really?

I mean, technically that is true. That is not what the ER is for, however. And she doesn't seem to realize that you don't get treatment in an ER and then go about your merry way. I once went to the ER because I twisted my ankle really terribly and felt a "pop" (turned out a tendon had pulled off a piece of bone, but the ER didn't see it - a specialist did a couple days later). It was 11pm on Sunday (also July 4), so literally nothing else was open. The ER had me down as "self pay" due to a previous visit where I didn't give them my insurance info as I had been in a car accident that was another person's fault - their insurance was to pay. I was driven to the ER, no ambulance. I was in the ER less than an hour. I spoke to a nurse, got X-rays, they gave me a pain med prescription and one pill to take immediately, and they strapped on some terrible flimsy plastic inflatable "splint" thing that did absolutely nothing.

The bill?

$1600.00

That was the "reduced" self-pay rate. They'd have charged my insurance (and I assume they did, after they got the info) over $3500.00. Even with "good" insurance, I was out of pocket well over $500 that month for copays, a $95 boot that didn't really fit and hurt terribly, etc. And this was almost 10 years ago.

Lori doesn't seem to get that she, who napped at home with her four kids (during the small amount of time they weren't in real school), with the nanny caring for the little kids and the housekeeper doing the cleaning, may not have a clear picture of how life really is for someone with eleventy children, a husband working a job that barely feeds everyone yet makes just too much to qualify for government health care options, and is barely scraping by. 

Lori can just walk into the ER and get help (despite her anti-doctor stance) - because they are wealthy! I'm sure she and Ken have decent insurance. They live, the two of them, in a house where six people lived comfortably. She buys expensive makeup, expensive organic foods, and expensive clothes. They eat out at nice restaurants. They take a several-week long vacation every year, and Ken also went to the Caribbean not too long ago with Alyssa, I think.

$1600.00 is a LOT for a struggling family. And that was a pretty minimal charge, considering the short time I was there and how few services I got.

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wallysmommy

The hospital I worked for built a new ER in 2013, doubling the bed capacity of the original ER.  In 2016, another hospital closed their ER overnight (literally).  They put a sign on the door and said "Closed.  Go to (name of my hospital)."  We thought volume would increase by about 20-30%.  It actually more than doubled in one day.  From around 90 patients a day to 180 or so.  We would have patients overflowing the lobby, down the halls, all over the place. 

There are people who cycle through the ER regularly.  Most of them are psych patients who cannot be placed in an acute care facility, so they spent the 14 days required once the coroner's emergency certificate was written with us with no psych treatment.  At times 25% of the capacity was taken with psych patients.  Then add the people who should be at a primary care physician for treatment of minor illnesses taking up valuable beds.   It's a very, very broken system.  I'm sure if Lori goes to the ER she raises hell if she isn't seen right away.

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Wine time!
Sarah92

People abusing the ER system is one of the reasons my workplace and others in Illinois are being put into potentially dangerous situations. We will respond to a child's home in the middle of the night for crisis. In the past they did not have us do this for adults. Now if we get a call in we have to respond to an adult's home. I work with a team of all women except for one man. That puts us at risk for being called to a random individuals house in the middle of the night, who may or may not have a weapon,who may or may not have committed suicide by the time we get there, potentially in the middle of the country given that we're a semi rural area. Luckily our team will always bring the police with us and if it presents too severe on the phone we can send to ER. I've heard not all places have that.  

But what's one of the reasons for doing this? Cutting ER costs. I in no way equate mental illness with violence. However, these situations can be unpredictable. Even in the ER we have people become violent because of their state. 

 

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delphinium65
4 hours ago, Loveday said:

Ken:  We don't like it and believe every embryo should be used if it is produced. But there is a huge difference between trying to create lives instead of trying to destroy babies.

The more I think about this, the more it pisses me off.  These people claim that as soon as egg and sperm meet the result is a human life that must be protected.  So by their rules isn't discarding these embryos murder?  Why does it make any difference in their view how that embryo started?  It's the same with rape and incest exceptions, which seem to be an attempt to say 'See? We have some compassion!  We care about these women!'  But given a little further thought, this crap proves that the intent saving lives, it's about controlling the behavior of women.  :angry-fire: :angry-fire: :angry-fire:  

Yeah, I'm a just a liiiiiittle worked up about this.  

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church_of_dog
Posted (edited)

Her ER comment is also disingenuous, because it isn't really a relevant response to the previous comment about how many people die yearly due to lack of health insurance.

The people dying from lack of insurance aren't dying from broken legs.  I would guess the people dying from lack of insurance have long-term conditions like diabetes or even cancer, but without insurance their affordable treatment options are limited.  (IMO only, I don't have actual data).

But if I'm right in my assumptions, those are not the kinds of situations where an ER can help you anyway.  They will get you stable for the moment and then either release you and advise you to consult your PCP or admit you to the hospital, at either of which points insurance definitely matters.  Sadly.

Edited by church_of_dog
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SongRed7
Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, ColeJo said:

I hate it when people advocate going to the ER for routine healthcare. This is how EMTALA is abused. This doesn’t solve the problems in our healthcare system.

I work in health care also and this burns me to no end as well.  And what they don't say, is yes..you must be seen and treated for your immediate need...but if during that acute episode they discover you have a serious condition and  you have to be admitted,  ( you need heart surgery, have cancer, sepsis, organ failure, severe pneumonia/respiratory distress, etc)  you are going to have some big decisions and huge medical bills. It's not free (talking about the US)... 

 

A related issue is people using the ER for routines colds and minor illnesses, accidents etc., who then complain they waited a long time (ERs work on triage system...most serious first. It's not a first come, first serve basis) because the doctors and nurses were tending to other more serious conditions. Not to mention the big bill.  I believe the US health care system can be vastly improved, but individuals have to take some responsibility for themselves given the current system. We may not like it, but that's the way it is. 

 

1 hour ago, church_of_dog said:

The people dying from lack of insurance aren't dying from broken legs.  I would guess the people dying from lack of insurance have long-term conditions like diabetes or even cancer, but without insurance their affordable treatment options are limited.  (IMO only, I don't have actual data).

Exactly right.  And they die often because they can't afford their prescriptions or to get follow up care they need, etc.  It becomes a downward spiral.  The ER isn't going to manage your diabetes long term. They may help you stabilize during an acute incident, but they aren't going to help you manage it day to day. For that you need a primary care doctor or an endocrinologists. Neither of which are free in this country (US).

Edited by SongRed7
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polecat
Posted (edited)
On 5/17/2019 at 10:14 AM, AuntKrazy said:

I always think back to the West Wing and Matt Santos saying:  "Abortion is a tragedy. It should be legal, it should be safe, and it should be a helluva lot rarer than it is now."  That's where I am.  I don't think banning it makes it safer or rarer; just more dangerous.

Not debating just using this as a jumping off point: I don't even know that I'd agree that it's a tragedy. I know that not all medical procedures are fantastic to go through, but after reading a woman's account of her own abortion today and what that choice meant for her and all the opportunities it afforded her to help countless others, I think her abortion was not only not a tragedy but a blessing. Not getting pregnant would have been even better, but life hands you lemons sometimes, you know? I'm glad that we have abortion as a backup plan, and as such, thank the good doctors who offer it.

 

edit: To clarify, had she had the baby, she'd have been trapped in a dead-end relationship parenting a number of children. But by having the abortion, she was free to lead the life she chose for herself, which was a life of public service, enabling her to help literally thousands of disadvantaged people. (Don't want to get into specifics because I don't know how public she wanted to be).

Edited by polecat
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ViolaSebastian

How can a woman who admittedly needs extremely expensive prescription medication to survive not extrapolate and make the connection that without insurance, it would be very difficult for 99.99% of people to afford expensive medication without insurance? And that sometimes, people other than her also need expensive medication to survive? Can you score negatively for emotional intelligence? Because I feel like our Lori could. 

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wallysmommy

How's this...I paid $81 yesterday for a 5 day temp script of Trintellex--$16 per pill.  Try that one on for size, Lori.  I paid it because even though I do have insurance, I'm being jerked around because I'm a virtual employee and they forget I can't go to the main location of my employer to use their preferred pharmacy -- I'm in Mississippi, the preferred pharmacy is in Philadelphia.

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SuperNova
Posted (edited)
51 minutes ago, delphinium65 said:

Ken:  We don't like it and believe every embryo should be used if it is produced. But there is a huge difference between trying to create lives instead of trying to destroy babies.

Ken is saying that intent carries the real weight? An embryo grown in a lab has less of a right to life than an embryo made accidently. Uh...how? If we're talking about intent and the lab embryo was wanted, shouldn't that make the "crime" bigger when the "life" is destroyed? 

Ken and Lori's stance has always been harshly legalistic. If they truly believe that life begins at the point of conception, then any woman who allows her unused ivf embryos to be destroyed should be punished the same as those who have abortions. Furthermore, women shouldn't even have the option of ivf because it's against god's plan altogether. If he wants a woman to have children, he will open her womb.

Just to be clear, I don't believe any of this garbage. I'm just trying to follow Ken's F-ed up thought process.

Edited by SuperNova
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dharmapunk
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Alisamer said:

 I once went to the ER because I twisted my ankle really terribly and felt a "pop" (turned out a tendon had pulled off a piece of bone, but the ER didn't see it - a specialist did a couple days later). It was 11pm on Sunday (also July 4), so literally nothing else was open. The ER had me down as "self pay" due to a previous visit where I didn't give them my insurance info as I had been in a car accident that was another person's fault - their insurance was to pay. I was driven to the ER, no ambulance. I was in the ER less than an hour. I spoke to a nurse, got X-rays, they gave me a pain med prescription and one pill to take immediately, and they strapped on some terrible flimsy plastic inflatable "splint" thing that did absolutely nothing.

The bill?

$1600.00

That was the "reduced" self-pay rate. They'd have charged my insurance (and I assume they did, after they got the info) over $3500.00. Even with "good" insurance, I was out of pocket well over $500 that month for copays, a $95 boot that didn't really fit and hurt terribly, etc. And this was almost 10 years ago.

 

To my European ears that sounds like an insane amount of money. Are there no rules about how much a hospital can charge? Last month I managed to cut my hand on a broken glass on a Sunday morning. Nothing too serious but lots of blood, so I wrapped it the best I could and went to the nearest ER. They cleaned the cut,  poked around for remaining pieces of glass, put a couple of stitches in and gave me a tetanus booster shot. The bill was 110 Euro and it was fully covered by my health insurance. Plus they were all really, really nice and reassuring (I am a bit of a wuss when it comes to seeing my own blood) although it was such a minor injury.

Edited by dharmapunk
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quiversR4hunting
21 minutes ago, wallysmommy said:

How's this...I paid $81 yesterday for a 5 day temp script of Trintellex--$16 per pill.  Try that one on for size, Lori.  I paid it because even though I do have insurance, I'm being jerked around because I'm a virtual employee and they forget I can't go to the main location of my employer to use their preferred pharmacy -- I'm in Mississippi, the preferred pharmacy is in Philadelphia.

so what's the problem? That is only a 16 hour one way trip. ;) 

12 minutes ago, dharmapunk said:

To my European ears that sounds like an insane amount of money. Are there no rules about how much a hospital can charge? Last month I managed to cut my hand on a broken glass on a Sunday morning. Nothing too serious but lots of blood, so I wrapped it the best I could and went to the nearest ER. They cleaned the cut,  poked around for remaining pieces of glass, put a couple of stitches in and gave me a tetanus booster shot. The bill was 110 Euro and it was fully covered by my health insurance. Plus they were all really, really nice and reassuring (I am a bit of a wuss when it comes to seeing my own blood) although it was such a minor injury.

To my knowledge, there isn't a cap. Insurance companies make deals with how much they will pay for certain procedures and then the hospital/doctor seem to charge more and then we have to pay the difference. (Super rudimentary explanation, I just use insurance I don't work in any medical field. It has been explained to me that a lot of the costs are inflated to cover the cost of the people not paying. Roughly 1450 people in the US go bankrupt every day because of medical bills. Source: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/11/this-is-the-real-reason-most-americans-file-for-bankruptcy.html (530,000/365)

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delphinium65
16 minutes ago, SuperNova said:

Ken is saying that intent carries the real weight? An embryo grown in a lab has less of a right to life than an embryo made accidently. Uh...how? If we're talking about intent and the lab embryo was wanted, shouldn't that make the "crime" bigger when the "life" is destroyed? 

Yep.  By Kennie-boy's rules deliberate creation of embryos, with intention of destroying the unwanted ones, should be considered worse by their rules than destroying an 'oops' embryo, because of that intent from the start to 'murder' them.  Unless of course his reason for taking an anti-abortion stand has more to do with controlling what women do than preserving 'life'...

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wallysmommy

Here's what I know about hospital pricing -- it's all based on contractual rates, so the charges are nowhere near what the actual payments are from insurance, Medicare and Medicaid.  Payer mix is important, as is the location or type of hospital.  In Region 9 of Louisiana (suburban New Orleans), hospitals get paid about 80% of cost for Medicare and about 60% of costs for Medicaid.  In Region 1 (New Orleans), the reimbursement rates for Medicare and Medicaid are higher, especially at UMC (the old Charity hospital).  Again, it's a very complicated, broken system.  I would like to see what the payer mix is at Lori's hospital of choice.  I'm sure it's not what we have at a community hospital with 40% Medicare/Medicaid.

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dharmapunk
38 minutes ago, quiversR4hunting said:

To my knowledge, there isn't a cap. Insurance companies make deals with how much they will pay for certain procedures and then the hospital/doctor seem to charge more and then we have to pay the difference. (Super rudimentary explanation, I just use insurance I don't work in any medical field. It has been explained to me that a lot of the costs are inflated to cover the cost of the people not paying. Roughly 1450 people in the US go bankrupt every day because of medical bills. Source: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/11/this-is-the-real-reason-most-americans-file-for-bankruptcy.html (530,000/365)

Thank you for the explanation. Health care systems are always complex. I was aware that bankrupcy because of medical bills can happen in the USA, but I thought it would normally happen with things like major surgery. But if a single ER visit costs something like 1600 dollars even that can be enough to cause serious financial problems for many people. I had no idea! 

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SweetLaurel
10 minutes ago, dharmapunk said:

But if a single ER visit costs something like 1600 dollars even that can be enough to cause serious financial problems for many people. I had no idea! 

Yeah, that is actually a small amount.  My daughter fell and smashed her teeth.  Over 6 thousand bucks and not covered at all.  My son got a concussion  - the 6 hour hospital bill was over 5 thousand bucks and I owed 2 thousand of that.  Then he hurt his back jumping off a roof.  $1,500 of my part and then chiropractic bills paid out of pocket.   When my husband passed, he was in the hospital for less than 12 hours and it was well over 10 thousand bucks for them to all tell us he was gone.  The ambulance was $800 and not covered at all.    I simply can't afford doctors anymore.   Its kinda not an option.  

 

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zeebaneighba
1 hour ago, dharmapunk said:

To my European ears that sounds like an insane amount of money. Are there no rules about how much a hospital can charge? Last month I managed to cut my hand on a broken glass on a Sunday morning. Nothing too serious but lots of blood, so I wrapped it the best I could and went to the nearest ER. They cleaned the cut,  poked around for remaining pieces of glass, put a couple of stitches in and gave me a tetanus booster shot. The bill was 110 Euro and it was fully covered by my health insurance. Plus they were all really, really nice and reassuring (I am a bit of a wuss when it comes to seeing my own blood) although it was such a minor injury.

HAHAHAHA no.

I had some relatively minor outpatient surgery recently and the hospital billed my insurance over FORTY SEVEN THOUSAND DOLLARS!  That's not including the bill for the surgeon, the anesthesiologist, or the pathologist.  They didn't get that much; I think the negotiated rate was around $4500, and my insurance is excellent so I only have a $60 co-pay for the hospital (not sure what the other co-pays will be; somewhere between $20 and $60).

I was only there from 5:30 am to noon.

Medical costs in the US are ridiculous and utterly extortionate.

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Antipatriarch

If you haven't heard of this, there is such a thing as "embryo adoption" for people who believe each IVF fertilized egg is the same as a fully-developed human being (in terms of personhood and human rights):

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/17/health/embryo-adoption-donated-snowflake.html

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Leftitinmysnood

Yeah, just go to the ER. We can fix that stage 4 cancer you never saw a doctor for, because you didn't have insurance. Antithrombotics not covered in your drug plan and you had another heart attack? We can make your heart as good as new. Congestive heart failure is a myth. We'll throw in a bypass surgery for a mere $250,000. Decided to buy food and shelter instead of insulin and tests strips? Hey, the ER will magically keep you from losing your peripheral nerve sensation, stomach function, and vision because of high blood sugars. We do it all. I use my magic wand every day I work. 

I'd like to see how going to the ER fixed Lori's brain tumor.

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Hisey
Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, ColeJo said:

I hate it when people advocate going to the ER for routine healthcare. This is how EMTALA is abused. This doesn’t solve the problems in our healthcare system. A kid who can’t breathe needs the resources from an ER more than someone who uses them for primary care. We need to do better at providing preventative care to reduce healthcare costs. ERs are not built to do that. 

I even hate it when the Bates do this. People like her do not care about the healthcare disparities in the US. She is super ignorant as she is about everything else. She probably doesn’t believe in health screenings unless it is for herself.

Lori is so ignorant. You just can't walk into an ER and demand treatment for anything that ails you. ERs provide emergency treatment, and some diagnostics (like when you think you are having a heart attack, but it turns out to be a panic attack). For more specialized treatment, they refer you to a specialist, whom you need to contact the next day for an office visit. For which you must pay. 

For example, if you walked into an ER with a suspicious mole, it's VERY unlikely the ER doc would biopsy it and then contact you in a few days with the results. Board-certified ER docs don't have a practice that you can go visit--they do shift work. As a result, they don't want the hassle (or the liability) of following up with patients. It's not their job. Moles aren't their specialty, anyway. Most importantly, it isn't an emergency. 

Instead, you'd be given a list of dermatologists (or a single name, in a rural area). You'd need to make an appointment, and if you wanted it removed, you'd have to pay for it.

People who can't pay, Lori, don't see that dermatologist until they absolutely have to. In the meantime, their melanoma spreads and becomes resistant to treatment.

It's the same with any other host of ailments. If you want treatment for a nonemergency, you receive a referral. I mean, there are exceptions to every rule, but this is the general practice. Hospitals know that many people visiting ERs cannot pay, and they aren't in a rush to provide anything but the emergency care they are required to provide.

Besides, Lori, the care you receive in the ER isn't free. I've been to the ER and received quite a hefty bill, even with insurance. Lori's referring to the fact that hospitals often provide emergency care to people who cannot pay, and often those bills are written off. Is Lori suggested that we stiff our local hospital when we need care?

I'd like Lori to try going to her local ER with a mole, and see what happens. 

Edited by Hisey

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Lgirlrocks

E9EDD897-688B-4CF4-A90D-2330E1894835.thumb.jpeg.d04108748003a18e0f3b618eea6c49f4.jpeg

women aren’t to enjoy sex. They are to please their man. No birth control of any kind including the rhythm method. Women can’t work unless it’s part time from home. They have to home school and give birth to all of the kids. College is a no no even for men, with the exception of doctor, lawyer, or engineer. That means making minimum wage most of the time. Federal minimum wage is less than $8. You can’t get an apartment without another roommate paying half the rent in most places on that salary. That salary put you in poverty. You can’t get help from the government because that’s bad. 

How is anyone supposed to live this way? How can you choose to bring children into this life, yes it is a choice to continue to have sec knowing you’ll get pregnant, and call your self pro life? What kind of life are you giving your kids?

god, if he exist, doesn’t just sit in heaven and plan when a women is going to get pregnant. He put cycle in place for a reason. There are only so many days a month a women can get pregnant. That is if the sperm reaches the egg. 

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kpmom
56 minutes ago, Hisey said:

 

I'd like Lori to try going to her local ER with a mole, and see what happens. 

Maybe they’d give her black salve and send her home. 

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Wine time!
Sarah92

We need a new tv show called "Fundy Poverty Wars: fighting slutty, money hungry feminist edition". Get two Fundy families every week and they have to duke it out to see who is the most  righteously impoverished. Lori can host. She can sit in on home school lessons, count the amount of times mother's leave the house, and make sure no one sins by having nice things or going on vacation. And if there's a tie the mother's can compete by making Lori's bread recipe. Who ever makes it best wins. 

 

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