Patience and Nathan Axmann

[VVV]

1 hour ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Yes. When I was reading some of her old posts I came across something about that. Isn’t it telling that the females in that family got out the fastest while some of the boys hang around. They are obviously treated much better in that family. 

Isn't there only one adult son at the moment? I thought the other boys were still minors. And the eldest son is a "musician" (his FB profile lists him as CEO and Founder at Jacob Pennington Music)*, and studying law online through Oak Brook. Nothing about anything that he's doing suggests an ability to support himself.  Though he has also clearly marinated in the kool-aid, and is, as you say, treated much better than his sisters.

*Not that musicians can't support themselves; I've been doing it for decades. But I have, y'know, actual degrees from internationally respected music schools, and jobs commensurate with my training. It absolutely drives me insane when people think they can proclaim themselves a professional musician with no training, no experience, and no skills. Liking to sing does not make someone a professional musician.

[JermajestyDuggar]

7 hours ago, VVV said:

Isn't there only one adult son at the moment? I thought the other boys were still minors. And the eldest son is a "musician" (his FB profile lists him as CEO and Founder at Jacob Pennington Music)*, and studying law online through Oak Brook. Nothing about anything that he's doing suggests an ability to support himself.  Though he has also clearly marinated in the kool-aid, and is, as you say, treated much better than his sisters.

*Not that musicians can't support themselves; I've been doing it for decades. But I have, y'know, actual degrees from internationally respected music schools, and jobs commensurate with my training. It absolutely drives me insane when people think they can proclaim themselves a professional musician with no training, no experience, and no skills. Liking to sing does not make someone a professional musician.

I was thinking at least 2 of the 5 boys are adults. I’ll have to try and look it up. It’s Noah and Jacob I believe are adult. Then I think the youngest three are between the ages of 12 and 17.

Edited June 8, 2019 by JermajestyDuggar

[Gobsmacked]

One boy is only 12? Crap, he can't escape for years yet. He must be the one who appears to frequently accompany Lisa to Disney World.  Lisa loves Disney World. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

15 hours ago, Gobsmacked said:

One boy is only 12? Crap, he can't escape for years yet. He must be the one who appears to frequently accompany Lisa to Disney World.  Lisa loves Disney World. 

Yes, he’s the youngest. She seems to take a few boys to DW pretty often. Did they go to DW this often when all 9 kids were at home? She’s probably enjoying just having 4 kids at home now. 

[Feministe9000]

Nate's latest blog post. The mental gymnastics required for this poor young man to wind up at the conclusion he does is slightly impressive (doctrine is POWERFUL) and also very sad I don't think there's much more I can say so I'll let yall do the rest.

http://nathanaxmann.com/2019/06/10/my-same-sex-attraction-didnt-exclude-me-from-the-gospel/

[VVV]

3 hours ago, Feministe9000 said:

Nate's latest blog post. The mental gymnastics required for this poor young man to wind up at the conclusion he does is slightly impressive (doctrine is POWERFUL) and also very sad I don't think there's much more I can say so I'll let yall do the rest.

http://nathanaxmann.com/2019/06/10/my-same-sex-attraction-didnt-exclude-me-from-the-gospel/

That is one of the saddest things I have ever read.

[NachosFlandersStyle]

Seeing this prompted me to re-read Josh and Lolly Weed's excellent statement about the end of their marriage. One passage that stood out to me:

"I remember being interviewed by Nightlinefive years ago and at one point being asked if I found Lolly sexually attractive. I said “yes.” And I wasn’t lying—I believed that was true. But I was in denial, meaning that there were parts of that question or issue that I didn’t allow myself to acknowledge or understand. What I told myself was something along the lines of, “Yes, when we have sex I get an erection and I find her beautiful and I’ve had an orgasm during sex with her hundreds of times and I love her dearly and we connect emotionally like gangbusters and have sex, with orgasms, often, so the answer to this question is ‘yes.’”

But there were some MAJOR holes in that logic that I wouldn’t let myself look at, and MAJOR problems I simply didn’t understand existed. For one, I had never, not one time in my life, allowed myself to have a developmentally appropriate, reciprocated romantic crush with a person I was attracted to who could like me back. I had never held hands with a person I was attracted to; I’d never had a first kiss; I’d never danced with someone I was attracted to at a dance; I’d never been asked ‘who I liked’ in a way that allowed me to even think about ‘who I liked”; I’d never even felt the chemistry of bumping into someone who I was attracted to and who might be attracted to me, the casual grazing of hands that sends a tiny spark of electricity through both people—the simplest of things. So what possible frame of reference did I have for what love and attraction felt like in a romantic and sexual relationship?"

(Gah, how do I put something behind quotes on mobile?)

And Lolly says something very similar, that getting married very young after being raised in a culture that was not open about sex made it difficult for her to articulate that their relationship was lacking romantic passion-- after all, they were capable of having sex, what else is there?

If two clear-eyed adults decide that they want to get married for reasons that may not involve sexual chemistry, I suppose that's fine. But the courtship/ purity culture creates a situation where these people cannot make an informed decision about what they're getting into. They are forbidden from exploring their real needs and emotions even in the privacy of their own thoughts. Nathan has never had a moment in his life when he was allowed to honestly consider what he wants or needs, and living with Lisa it's quite likely that Patience hasn't had it a whole lot better. It's so sad for both of them.

[Howl]

4 hours ago, NachosFlandersStyle said:

Seeing this prompted me to re-read Josh and Lolly Weed's excellent statement about the end of their marriage.

Here's the full post where they announce the dissolution of their marriage: Turning a Unicorn into a Bat: the Post in Which We Announce the End of our Marriage

Here's an article about them from SLATE.com:   This Mormon Couple’s Account of Why They Couldn’t Stay Married—as a Gay Man and Straight Woman—Is Remarkably Honest

[usedbicycle]

?? This breaks my heart... He's still so young and fragile emotionally and sexually. Definitely not in a position to be married for life to a woman and jumping into fatherhood. I'm sad that he seems to have experienced gay life as something dangerous, perhaps through some bad/sketchy encounters. Had he met chaste Christian gay men he could relate to, maybe his life could be different today.

Edited June 11, 2019 by usedbicycle

[JermajestyDuggar]

24 minutes ago, usedbicycle said:

?? This breaks my heart... He's still so young and fragile emotionally and sexually. Definitely not in a position to be married for life to a woman and jumping into fatherhood. I'm sad that he seems to have experienced gay life as something dangerous, perhaps through some bad/sketchy encounters. Had he met chaste Christian gay men he could relate to, maybe his life could be different today.

I wonder if he avoids Chris. My guess is yes. It’s probably hard to be around someone so content and open in their sexual orientation. 

[Feministe9000]

4 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I wonder if he avoids Chris. My guess is yes. It’s probably hard to be around someone so content and open in their sexual orientation. 

I hadn't thought about this aspect of the family dynamics yet, but yes. I wonder what he thinks of Chris?
And what does Patience think about her sister and her husband? More mental gymnastics and lots of it I'm sure.

 

[usedbicycle]

1 hour ago, Feministe9000 said:

I hadn't thought about this aspect of the family dynamics yet, but yes. I wonder what he thinks of Chris?
 And what does Patience think about her sister and her husband? More mental gymnastics and lots of it I'm sure.

 

Did you mean what does Chris think about Patience and Nate? That's what I'm dying to know! It must be REALLY hard to bite your tongue when you've been on the frontlines of LBGTQ awareness and your sister is marrying an obviously gay man for all the wrong reasons.

 

[JermajestyDuggar]

I’ve only known of the Pennington’s for a few years so I’m hoping someone who has read them longer will know the answer to this very unimportant question. I know the daughters all have virtue middle names that Lisa used. I don’t think she called them by their first names much. I know Alecia is Alecia Faith. Grace’s name on instagram is JGraceAuthor so I’m assuming her first name starts with a J. However I have no idea of the first names of Patience and Chris. 

Do any of you know? It’s really silly but I’ve always wondered.

[Feministe9000]

30 minutes ago, usedbicycle said:

Did you mean what does Chris think about Patience and Nate? That's what I'm dying to know! It must be REALLY hard to bite your tongue when you've been on the frontlines of LBGTQ awareness and your sister is marrying an obviously gay man for all the wrong reasons.

I suppose I mean both.

[Feministe9000]

11 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I’ve only known of the Pennington’s for a few years so I’m hoping someone who has read them longer will know the answer to this very unimportant question. I know the daughters all have virtue middle names that Lisa used. I don’t think she called them by their first names much. I know Alecia is Alecia Faith. Grace’s name on instagram is JGraceAuthor so I’m assuming her first name starts with a J. However I have no idea of the first names of Patience and Chris. 

Do any of you know? It’s really silly but I’ve always wondered.

I'm not sure of Patience's first name, but Chris' Lisa-given name was Hope.

[JermajestyDuggar]

7 minutes ago, Feministe9000 said:

I'm not sure of Patience's first name, but Chris' Lisa-given name was Hope.

I remember they were Hope but I thought all 4 of them went by their middle names which were virtue names. I could be wrong though. Hope could have been their first name. I was wondering if maybe it was Christina Hope and that’s why they decided on Chris. 

[TuringMachine]

Well my quick people searching is telling me that Grace is first name might be Jennifer. Haven't found anything for Chris or Patience yet though.

[NachosFlandersStyle]

Chris has changed their name and probably doesn't want the pre-transition name dug up if it wasn't already public, fwiw.

[VVV]

2 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I’ve only known of the Pennington’s for a few years so I’m hoping someone who has read them longer will know the answer to this very unimportant question. I know the daughters all have virtue middle names that Lisa used. I don’t think she called them by their first names much. I know Alecia is Alecia Faith. Grace’s name on instagram is JGraceAuthor so I’m assuming her first name starts with a J. However I have no idea of the first names of Patience and Chris. 

Do any of you know? It’s really silly but I’ve always wondered.

Patience is the only child with an original birth certificate among the older ones. The birth index stops at 1997 so I don't know about the younger boys.

Edited June 11, 2019 by VVV

[usedbicycle]

Wait... Pennington is not their real name??! How did I miss that?

[JermajestyDuggar]

1 hour ago, NachosFlandersStyle said:

Chris has changed their name and probably doesn't want the pre-transition name dug up if it wasn't already public, fwiw.

Chris is super open (which I think is fantastic although not necessary for everyone in their situation) so I was wondering if they ever said why they chose Chris. If it just felt right or if it was a variation of one of their names at birth. I haven’t watched all their videos so I was just asking in case anyone had seen. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if they explained their choice on social media.

[PennySycamore]

29 minutes ago, usedbicycle said:

Wait... Pennington is not their real name??! How did I miss that?

Pennington is their real last name.  Chris changed their name when they transitioned.

The pronoun they is used by many trans and non-binary persons although some use ze.

[Howl]

25 minutes ago, usedbicycle said:

Wait... Pennington is not their real name??! How did I miss that?

IIRC, Sublett was James' (the dad's) original last name.  Some person in the Sublett family (James' dad?) did something something something so  James changed the family last name to Pennington.  

[VVV]

5 hours ago, Howl said:

IIRC, Sublett was James' (the dad's) original last name.  Some person in the Sublett family (James' dad?) did something something something so  James changed the family last name to Pennington.  

I don't know when the Pennington parents legally changed their name, but they legally changed Grace's name in 2007. Perhaps she was born somewhere other than Texas and had a birth certificate...I don't know why they would single her out but she is the only one who turned up on the Kerr County court records. By the way, @JermajestyDuggar, her first name is Jennifer. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

5 hours ago, Howl said:

IIRC, Sublett was James' (the dad's) original last name.  Some person in the Sublett family (James' dad?) did something something something so  James changed the family last name to Pennington.  

Interesting. It’s pretty rare for an entire large family to change all their last names. Is Pennington a family name at all or is it just something he chose because he liked it? So interesting.