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Patience and Nathan Axmann


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12 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Interesting. It’s pretty rare for an entire large family to change all their last names. Is Pennington a family name at all or is it just something he chose because he liked it? So interesting. 

I think it might have been his mother's maiden name. Can't remember where I read the story but at least at one point, it was mentioned--perhaps by Alecia.

He changed his name sometime after 1998. I couldn't find the name change in the Harris County records but I did find this....the former Mr. Sublett didn't pay his school taxes. Render unto Caesar, Jimmy boy. 

sublett.JPG

Bingo! He changed his name in 1999. 

sublett.JPG

sublett.JPG

Edited by VVV
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18 hours ago, PennySycamore said:

Pennington is their real last name.  Chris changed their name when they transitioned.

The pronoun they is used by many trans and non-binary persons although some use ze.

I know, I was referring to the last name Sublett on Patience's birth certificate. I wasn't aware that the family changed their last name to Pennington.

12 hours ago, VVV said:

I don't know when the Pennington parents legally changed their name, but they legally changed Grace's name in 2007. Perhaps she was born somewhere other than Texas and had a birth certificate...I don't know why they would single her out but she is the only one who turned up on the Kerr County court records.

That seems like a valid explanation. If it's true and Grace had a birth certificate too, it stings even more that Faith and Chris didn't get one. Chris made a video a while back explaining that some kids got one and some kids didn't, that it was complicated. What were the parents thinking ??!

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54 minutes ago, usedbicycle said:

I know, I was referring to the last name Sublett on Patience's birth certificate. I wasn't aware that the family changed their last name to Pennington.

That seems like a valid explanation. If it's true and Grace had a birth certificate too, it stings even more that Faith and Chris didn't get one. Chris made a video a while back explaining that some kids got one and some kids didn't, that it was complicated. What were the parents thinking ??!

I think Lisa and James are incredibly self centered and pretty narcissistic in some of their decisions. They really didn’t think much about how these things would affect their children’s futures. They just knew they were right in everything they did. Until it bit them in the ass. 

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@JermajestyDuggar, I think Lisa and James just flat out didn’t care how the lack of birth certificates would affect their children’s futures. Lisa has always been all about control, and it’s far easier to control someone who doesn’t even have the credentials to exist as an independent citizen.

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I have watched a grand total of 3 videos of Chris on their YouTube channel and one of them was about their name change. She was called Hope Christine/a and I think already went by the nickname Chris when she lived at home. When she moved to they it seemed a good fit. 

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2 hours ago, Mrs Ms said:

I have watched a grand total of 3 videos of Chris on their YouTube channel and one of them was about their name change. She was called Hope Christine/a and I think already went by the nickname Chris when she lived at home. When she moved to they it seemed a good fit. 

Can you provide a link to it? It’s amazing how many different Chris Penningtons there are out in YouTube land!

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2 hours ago, Hane said:

Can you provide a link to it? It’s amazing how many different Chris Penningtons there are out in YouTube land!

I clicked on the video on the second page of this thread. Sorry, I have no clue how to link back to it 

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On 6/11/2019 at 10:17 PM, VVV said:

I think it might have been his mother's maiden name. Can't remember where I read the story but at least at one point, it was mentioned--perhaps by Alecia.

He changed his name sometime after 1998. I couldn't find the name change in the Harris County records but I did find this....the former Mr. Sublett didn't pay his school taxes. Render unto Caesar, Jimmy boy. 

sublett.JPG

Bingo! He changed his name in 1999. 

sublett.JPG

sublett.JPG

Some of the old Lisa, pre-Alecia escape posts covered this I believe. Will try to dig around.

Here is some of the early discussion :

 

@RosyDaisy is distantly related to James. Pennington is his mother’s last name.

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9 hours ago, Hane said:

I think Lisa and James just flat out didn’t care how the lack of birth certificates would affect their children’s futures.

My impression is that James Pennington has a Sovereign Citizens streak.  If your kids don't have birth certificates or social security numbers, they can't be controlled by the government.  There is a strain of the homeschooling movement that is also into that belief. 

Please note that James and Lisa Pennington are by no means uneducated people.  IIRC, both have college degrees from regular (not Christian) colleges, James is a solo practitioner CPA and has passed the bar in California (courtesy of the online Oak Brook School of Law).  

Identity abuse, deliberately withholding documents needed to prove one's birth status and citizenship, can also keep kids tired to their immediate family.   

Those of you new to this rodeo may not know that the first Pennington daughter to leave did so by getting into her grandparent's car and refusing to get out.  After a standoff, she went home with them. 

The grandparents contacted their state representative Marsha Farney.  Farney had a background as a high school teacher and counselor and also has a doctorate in education, and she understood exactly what was going on.   The Texas Legislature meets in alternate years and fortunately the Legislature was in session at the time. 

Marsha Farney (R - Relative Hard Core Conservative) and Senfronia Thompson (D - Way Liberal) successfully co-sponsored a bill that requires parents to provide documentation of birth and citizenship.  Refusing to do so would result in (again, IIRC) misdemeanor charges.  James Penning said this was "draconian." 

Faith's simple act of defiance and independence led to an avenue of relief for hundreds or thousands of Texas kids who now have a way to force parents to provide proof of citizenship. 

Edited by Howl
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“Our children belong to us, not the government.”

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10 minutes ago, smittykins said:

“Our children belong to us, not the government.”

Yes, sadly, exactly this.   

Also, to round this out, I don't think the Penningtons were ever in the Doug Phillips' social circle, but the Penningtons at one point attended a church in Fredericksburg, TX that was a sister church to the Boerne Christian Assembly.  Kerrville, Fredericksburg and Boerne are not that far from each other, at least at Texas highway speeds. 

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1 hour ago, Howl said:

Marsha Farney (R - Relative Hard Core Conservative) and Senfronia Thompson (D - Way Liberal) successfully co-sponsored a bill that requires parents to provide documentation of birth and citizenship.  Refusing to do so would result in (again, IIRC) misdemeanor charges.  James Penning said this was "draconian." 

 And if I recall correctly, this bill cost Marsha Farney her reelection bid. There are a scary number of “parental rights”  homeschoolers in the Hill Country who were sympathetic to the Pennington parents even if they themselves had proper documentation for their own children, and those people vote. 

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4 hours ago, VVV said:

And if I recall correctly, this bill cost Marsha Farney her reelection bid. There are a scary number of “parental rights”  homeschoolers in the Hill Country who were sympathetic to the Pennington parents even if they themselves had proper documentation for their own children, and those people vote. 

@VVV, thanks for clarifying this!  I always had a sneaking suspicion the Penningtons were directly or indirectly behind Farney getting primaried! Lisa especially and James were (are?) big names in Texas homeschooling. 

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Their beliefs remind me of the Nogs. Can you imagine how horrified Lisa would be at the comparison? Lisa has always seemed like such a snob. 

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I’m sorry I know I’m a bit behind but doesn’t it hurt or worry his wife that he posts so much about his previous and not at all current same sex attractions?

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5 hours ago, EyesOpen said:

I’m sorry I know I’m a bit behind but doesn’t it hurt or worry his wife that he posts so much about his previous and not at all current same sex attractions?

I find myself wondering the same thing. And at no point does he actually say he is no longer attracted to men. He just blathers about being attracted to his wife. Methinks the gentleman doth protest too much.

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It just makes me so sad for them both. I want to be careful how much I say but my best friend and I were very much in love. We had and still have a very close very deep relationship... and he could have maybe pretended for awhile when we were both going through a difficult time, but through a lot of talking a lot of working through things, we both found wonderful loving partners. His husband is a wonderful man and they are meant for each other. My husband is the man meant for me and my best friend is a wonderful uncle to my kids. I realize we ended up having a pretty great scenario compared to some who go further in to a relationship but I cannot imagine the pain of a couple like this trying so hard with so many confusing feelings... add religious guilt. The heart breaks. :(

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On 6/13/2019 at 8:06 AM, Howl said:

My impression is that James Pennington has a Sovereign Citizens streak.  If your kids don't have birth certificates or social security numbers, they can't be controlled by the government.  There is a strain of the homeschooling movement that is also into that belief. 

A mile wide.  

 

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On 6/13/2019 at 10:03 PM, VVV said:

I find myself wondering the same thing. And at no point does he actually say he is no longer attracted to men. He just blathers about being attracted to his wife. Methinks the gentleman doth protest too much.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t this particular subset of fundamentalism believe that as long as you’re not actually having gay sex, you’re not gay, you’re just “struggling with same-sex attraction”?  That it’s what you do, not who you are?

Edited by smittykins
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On 6/13/2019 at 3:31 PM, EyesOpen said:

I’m sorry I know I’m a bit behind but doesn’t it hurt or worry his wife that he posts so much about his previous and not at all current same sex attractions?

That's his schtick, his brand, the reason anyone would read his blog, a possible in to speaking at conferences and such. I know blogs are a dime a dozen across any population, but fundies seem to have a stronger belief than most that they are going to make money, or at least get admiration and swag, from posting about their struggles and giving advice to other people. 

That's why we're constantly seeing marital advice from people when the ink on their marriage certificate is still drying ?

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1 hour ago, smittykins said:

Correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t this particular subset of fundamentalism believe that as long as you’re not actually having gay sex, you’re not gay, you’re just “struggling with same-sex attraction”?  That it’s what you do, not who you are?

Recently, one of the Pennington sisters instagrammed(?) that the book Transforming Homosexuality "changed her stance" on gay people; its thesis is that being gay is a sin even if you never pursue a relationship with someone of the same sex. In essence, it's arguing against what you're describing, which is endorsed by other fundie churches, like Jeremy Vuolo's, that offer the option of a "faithful single life of celibacy" to gay people.

Multiple Penningtons "liked" the post, so I get the impression that they're on board with this line of thinking.

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52 minutes ago, nickelodeon said:

Recently, one of the Pennington sisters instagrammed(?) that the book Transforming Homosexuality "changed her stance" on gay people; its thesis is that being gay is a sin even if you never pursue a relationship with someone of the same sex. In essence, it's arguing against what you're describing, which is endorsed by other fundie churches, like Jeremy Vuolo's, that offer the option of a "faithful single life of celibacy" to gay people.

Multiple Penningtons "liked" the post, so I get the impression that they're on board with this line of thinking.

I can't even wrap my mind around the Olympic-level mental gymnastics required for this. And how awful for Nathan, who must surely know inside himself even if he never admits it to anyone else, that he is still gay.

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1 hour ago, nickelodeon said:

Recently, one of the Pennington sisters instagrammed(?) that the book Transforming Homosexuality "changed her stance" on gay people; its thesis is that being gay is a sin even if you never pursue a relationship with someone of the same sex. In essence, it's arguing against what you're describing, which is endorsed by other fundie churches, like Jeremy Vuolo's, that offer the option of a "faithful single life of celibacy" to gay people.

Multiple Penningtons "liked" the post, so I get the impression that they're on board with this line of thinking.

Grace wrote that about “Transforming Homosexuality.” The only ones that “liked” the post were Patience and Lisa. I doubt Chris or Alecia would like that kind of post.

It looks like Chris is following Grace but Grace is not following Chris on Instagram. 

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19 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Grace wrote that about “Transforming Homosexuality.” The only ones that “liked” the post were Patience and Lisa. I doubt Chris or Alecia would like that kind of post.

It looks like Chris is following Grace but Grace is not following Chris on Instagram. 

For Patience to "like" that post is alarming and does not bode well for a happy ending.

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4 hours ago, nickelodeon said:

Recently, one of the Pennington sisters instagrammed(?) that the book Transforming Homosexuality "changed her stance" on gay people; its thesis is that being gay is a sin even if you never pursue a relationship with someone of the same sex. In essence, it's arguing against what you're describing, which is endorsed by other fundie churches, like Jeremy Vuolo's, that offer the option of a "faithful single life of celibacy" to gay people.

 Multiple Penningtons "liked" the post, so I get the impression that they're on board with this line of thinking.

This is pretty bad news... this line of thinking is one of the most homophobic, right under PP's reprobate theory. It says that gays are attracted to the same sex not because of their natural orientation, but precisely because it's sinful and against God. It's the same thing as saying they're inherently evil. 

An Amazon reviewer summed up the book this way:

"The authors have a very simple goal with this book — “to establish from Scripture that desires for a sinful act are sinful precisely because the desired act is sinful” (13). To put it another way, the authors of this book aim to show clearly from Scripture that sin does not begin at the moment an action is taken; rather, sin begins in the mind, with the desires. Therefore, as such, same-sex desire and same-sex attraction is sinful, even without the person acting on those desires, because the object of the desire is sinful."

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