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Patience and Nathan Axmann


albireo

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Patience Pennington's husband has started a blog, and his first post is called "Don't Let Church Hurt Cause You to Walk Away." Inside he discusses his struggles as what he calls "a same-sex attracted teen" in a homophobic church and concludes that other kids who have been subjected to abuse in the fundamentalist community should force themselves to keep going to the same churches and suppress their feelings. How utterly enraging. Is this his coping mechanism? I don't understand how it would help.

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2 hours ago, albireo said:

Patience Pennington's husband has started a blog, and his first post is called "Don't Let Church Hurt Cause You to Walk Away." Inside he discusses his struggles as what he calls "a same-sex attracted teen" in a homophobic church and concludes that other kids who have been subjected to abuse in the fundamentalist community should force themselves to keep going to the same churches and suppress their feelings. How utterly enraging. Is this his coping mechanism? I don't understand how it would help.

This is some bullshit and awful, but I really wanted to say I’m so glad someone else has been following these folks! I followed Patience’s move to KS after she and Nathan got married, and follow her sister (Hope) Chris who lives in Austin. 

Ever since the Pennington scandals when their daughter Faith left to claim legal identity I’ve loosely kept up with them, still a fascinating bunch to see how they are turning out. 

No surprise, Patience is as devout as ever but Hope (Chris) has really been on a journey and it’s inspiring to see. 

Spoiler: Lisa appears to be pretty much the same obsessed with oils and going on a million trips to Disney. Based on IG,  She appears to appreciate time with the ones who left (dramatically or otherwise) when she sees them, without too much nonsense about the Lord. 

Decided to give this update in case others are interested, I really appreciate Chris’ journey with writing and sexuality and paving their own way the most, and Faith living her own life in freedom, after all the brainwashing and awful shit Lisa put them through. 

Also definitely not speculating, but Nathan’s story isn’t surprising, if you just take a quick look at his IG. 

Edited by Feministe9000
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I'm very sorry for Patience that she has married a man who refuses to be honest with himself and others. This can only end in hurt. 

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Hoo boy. I'm so curious what Chris thinks of all this. I was scrolling back through Pennington social accounts for whatever reason a while back and saw that Patience had posted some anti-gay stuff-- I had assumed it was targeted at Chris but maybe it had more to do with Nathan.

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4 hours ago, albireo said:

Patience Pennington's husband has started a blog, and his first post is called "Don't Let Church Hurt Cause You to Walk Away." Inside he discusses his struggles as what he calls "a same-sex attracted teen" in a homophobic church

Hoo, boy. He leaves out the part where, if you are true to yourself as LGBT, you aren't welcome in the community of believers.  The only reason church "works" for him now is because he's a same-sex attracted guy married to a woman, so now Jesus loves him.  Or something. 

 

1 hour ago, 16strong said:

I'm very sorry for Patience that she has married a man who refuses to be honest with himself and others. This can only end in hurt. 

Isn't that the truth.  At least Patience knows what the deal is if he lapses. 

Have they had a kid yet?

 

Edited by Howl
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Grace is married and has a baby. She seems like she’s still possibly fundie and if not fundie, then fundie lite. Patience is still fundie obviously. No kids and no pregnancy yet. Faith and Chris are basically the opposite of fundie. But Chris seems to be the peace maker of the family. So they still seem to maintain a relationship with the siblings and parents. Faith seems to be the most cut off from the family. I think the only sister she is still close with is Chris. Chris recently posted a picture of Chris, Faith, and two of their brothers. So at least Faith is seeing two of her brothers.

I’m not surprised at all that Patience’s husband has had same sex attraction. I just had a feeling their was something he was hiding. I’m not saying I have  “gaydar” as people say. I just felt like he was “putting on a show” for some pictures and videos. As if he was acting. I knew he was hiding something. And I guess it’s not surprising it’s same sex attraction. Since that is a big fundie topic. 

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3 hours ago, Feministe9000 said:

This is some bullshit and awful, but I really wanted to say I’m so glad someone else has been following these folks! I followed Patience’s move to KS after she and Nathan got married, and follow her sister (Hope) Chris who lives in Austin. 

Ever since the Pennington scandals when their daughter Faith left to claim legal identity I’ve loosely kept up with them, still a fascinating bunch to see how they are turning out. 

No surprise, Patience is as devout as ever but Hope (Chris) has really been on a journey and it’s inspiring to see. 

Spoiler: Lisa appears to be pretty much the same obsessed with oils and going on a million trips to Disney. Based on IG,  She appears to appreciate time with the ones who left (dramatically or otherwise) when she sees them, without too much nonsense about the Lord. 

Decided to give this update in case others are interested, I really appreciate Chris’ journey with writing and sexuality and paving their own way the most, and Faith living her own life in freedom, after all the brainwashing and awful shit Lisa put them through. 

Also definitely not speculating, but Nathan’s story isn’t surprising, if you just take a quick look at his IG. 

Wow, thank you for this! I knew about Alecia/Faith's story, but was only keeping up with Patience after I saw her engagement pop up on the Unmarried Fundies thread. Now I'm looking into Chris's story and am very impressed. They've developed a great personal voice and I wish them the best of luck with writing. 

Nathan talks a lot about sin and transformation on his IG, but I wasn't sure what vibe to get from that since many fundies talk about those topics. Was there anything else that stood out to you?

Edited by albireo
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3 hours ago, 16strong said:

I'm very sorry for Patience that she has married a man who refuses to be honest with himself and others. This can only end in hurt. 

Exactly, EXACTLY what I was thinking. Every single mixed-orientation relationship I have known of has ended badly--the ones where the straight spouse didn't know tend to end more badly than the ones where the straight spouse supposedly went in with eyes open, but it is never sustainable.

I hope the Axmanns' marriage ends amicably and before there are children involved. I'm not going to express any hope that that marriage endures. It is doomed. And what kind of marriage is it where the wife must know every day that her husband isn't sexually attracted to her?

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4 hours ago, Feministe9000 said:

Also definitely not speculating, but Nathan’s story isn’t surprising, if you just take a quick look at his IG. 

In all of their kissing photos, they have the chemistry of two awkward siblings. 

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6 hours ago, VVV said:

Exactly, EXACTLY what I was thinking. Every single mixed-orientation relationship I have known of has ended badly--the ones where the straight spouse didn't know tend to end more badly than the ones where the straight spouse supposedly went in with eyes open, but it is never sustainable.

That happened with my not fundie cousin. She didn't know he was gay and after 7 years he up and disappeared overnight, and ran away with a married father of 3. It was tragic. It took a long time for her to put the pieces of her life back together. 

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8 hours ago, VVV said:

And what kind of marriage is it where the wife must know every day that her husband isn't sexually attracted to her?

Screenshot_2019-05-09-14-04-16-680_com.android.chrome.thumb.png.9ab93ad8b11100e9644fb037f4eaeb3e.png

An extremely sheltered fundie maiden marriage of course! She's a fundie girl who married the first guy she ever date. And she knew he was the one because "godly men will honour you" and "guard your purity" and he "never disrespected her boundaries". From her blog:Screenshot_2019-05-09-14-15-45-629_com.android.chrome.thumb.png.af68844ab25d67ad14fa43335886bce0.png

Also typical of fundie girls: giving marital counseling as soon as they get married for all the wrong reasons to the first guy they dated.

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9 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Grace is married and has a baby. She seems like she’s still possibly fundie and if not fundie, then fundie lite. Patience is still fundie obviously. No kids and no pregnancy yet. Faith and Chris are basically the opposite of fundie. But Chris seems to be the peace maker of the family. So they still seem to maintain a relationship with the siblings and parents. Faith seems to be the most cut off from the family. I think the only sister she is still close with is Chris. Chris recently posted a picture of Chris, Faith, and two of their brothers. So at least Faith is seeing two of her brothers.

I’m not surprised at all that Patience’s husband has had same sex attraction. I just had a feeling their was something he was hiding. I’m not saying I have  “gaydar” as people say. I just felt like he was “putting on a show” for some pictures and videos. As if he was acting. I knew he was hiding something. And I guess it’s not surprising it’s same sex attraction. Since that is a big fundie topic. 

Thanks for providing a much more succinct recap than I could!! I'm so glad these folks are a thread again on here.

I agree, Chris definitely appears to be the peacemaker, I think the way that Faith severed ties with her parents (something they didn't give her much choice in if she wanted to get her legal status and all the things that she has now), it will inevitably affect the inter-connections between her siblings and parents for many years to come. They betrayed her with their lack of honesty for what her legal status was, among many other things,  and she knows it. No matter how much better things may be now.

Chris on the other hand, seems like Lisa wanted a do-over in a kid flying the nest, so piled on the super supportive nice and caring mom act.

The rest, *sigh*

As others have said, I feel for Patience. And @JermajestyDuggar you are exactly right. As soon as I saw that dude's face in videos and pictures I was likeeeeeeee oh no Patience.

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If he’s gay and not bi or pansexual, I imagine it was quite easy for him to respect her physical intimacy boundries. The way it’s easy for me to not make out with my closest female friends (I’m straight btw).

Edited by JermajestyDuggar
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1 hour ago, laPapessaGiovanna said:

And she knew he was the one because "godly men will honour you" and "guard your purity" and he "never disrespected her boundaries". 

Yeah, that happened to a fundie-lite acquaintance of mine as well. The marriage ended very badly, of course--thankfully there were no children involved. My acquaintance has since posted on FB about how she thought her husband-to-be was just being godly, but maybe if he'd been a little less "godly," she would have figured out what was going on before so much damage was done. I don't think she's fundie-lite any more.

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"It was God’s grace that eventually broke into my life, revealed His unconditional love for me and taught me the beauty of denying temptation and following His design for sexuality."

I'm going to go on a limb and say it wasn't God's grace that taught him to deny his true desires, it's the utter fear of being outed as gay in the most homophobic environment in America. 

His whole article describes how impossible it would be to live as a gay man in his conservative evangelical circle. It would mean losing everyone and everything he held dear. To be honest, I read this blog post as a sad attempt at saying "Look I'm married now, I'm normal, I forgive all my homophobic friends and family because I finally fit". And I feel so, so sorry for him.

ETA: I wouldn't be surprised if Patience becomes pregnant in the next year. Nathan seems eager to prove that he's following "God's design" for his sex life. 

Edited by usedbicycle
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Reminds me of the book "He's Just Not That Into You."

This way lies madness.

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2 hours ago, usedbicycle said:

His whole article describes how impossible it would be to live as a gay man in his conservative evangelical circle. It would mean losing everyone and everything he held dear. To be honest, I read this blog post as a sad attempt at saying "Look I'm married now, I'm normal, I forgive all my homophobic friends and family because I finally fit". And I feel so, so sorry for him.

My heart breaks for both of them.  My partner had to "choose" between being a lesbian and her church, and it really broke her, but at least her parents weren't in the church, so she wasn't completely cut off.  And she'd got into university in a different city, at a time before crippling student debt in the uk, so she knew she had choices. 

Even so, it really, really hurt, and I can't imagine how much worse it must be for a kid in a small town whose whole family was involved, especially if Nathan was also deliberately isolated and undereducated like the Penningtons were.  Alecia Faith wrote about how hard EVERYTHING was for her when she left, and that was with the support of a grandparent, so if Nathan didn't have anyone like that in his life, what could he do?

I just hope he's not still trying to fight his sexuality, and that they genuinely love each other, and can be happy together - but it feels like an everyday tragedy waiting to happen, for both of them. 

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4 minutes ago, Gobsmacked said:

What does Nathan look like? I don't think I've seen a photo of him. 

He and patience are one of the many fundie couples that kind of look alike. 

A37BE4C1-D722-40E6-8D36-0896860F21C4.jpeg

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7 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

If he’s gay and not bi or pansexual, I imagine it was quite easy for him to respect her physical intimacy boundries. The way it’s easy for me to not make out with my closest female friends (I’m straight btw).

And maybe he's like one of those gay guy best friends so she can feel really close to him and they can talk about anything.  I really hope there is no epic heartache down the line...here's hoping he's bi-sexual. 

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That poor guy. His story is freaking heartbreaking.

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47 minutes ago, Howl said:

And maybe he's like one of those gay guy best friends so she can feel really close to him and they can talk about anything.  I really hope there is no epic heartache down the line...here's hoping he's bi-sexual. 

I sure hope so but his blog post strongly implies that he is gay, only gay.

Even that Mormon couple that were the poster children for a "mixed orientation" marriage for so long ended up divorcing. It was extremely amicable and they're still co-parents, but even they couldn't make it work for the long haul despite all of the very best intentions. The human sexual drive is an extremely powerful force.

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3 hours ago, Lurky said:

My heart breaks for both of them.  My partner had to "choose" between being a lesbian and her church, and it really broke her, but at least her parents weren't in the church, so she wasn't completely cut off.  And she'd got into university in a different city, at a time before crippling student debt in the uk, so she knew she had choices. 

I'm so sorry she had to go through that, it must have been so difficult.  I can not imagine how difficult it must be.  I think that my mother probably suspected my bisexuality but since we do think she was lesbian herself and was basically pushed into a straight life as were many in her generation, that she never really addressed it with me and it may have been because she knew how hard her own situation was and didn't want me to have to face that.  If I'm making myself clear, sometimes I don't! 

I had long thought that my daughter was at least bi, and she eventually (on her own) told me that she's pan.  I told her that I will always be here for her, and that I will always support her choices.  And then I told her why, that I am too and that I was never able to be open about it when I was a teenager and growing up.  She was surprised about me but I was not surprised at her - however, I was extremely gratified that she was able to trust me with that. Mr. Briefly knows about me, it's never been an issue.  But I have not said anything to anyone else besides my gay cousin (that's what he calls himself) and I may not ever say anything to anyone else. But I do think my family would be more accepting than Mr. Briefly's family - which is why our daughter will probably not say anything to them.

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13 hours ago, laPapessaGiovanna said:

blog:Screenshot_2019-05-09-14-15-45-629_com.android.chrome.thumb.png.af68844ab25d67ad14fa43335886bce0.png

Also typical of fundie girls: giving marital counseling as soon as they get married for all the wrong reasons to the first guy they dated.

This line has more baggage than the luggage carousel at DFW: 

A mature man will see beyond the moment and will lead by choosing to honor you instead of pursuing his own preferences. 

This was, apparently, a long-distance courtship to some extent, meaning (to me) that these are two people who don't really know each other, but they hold  a belief that staying in their lanes in the assigned fundy gender roles re: patriarchy/headship will make everything OK.  

Most (all) of the Pennington kids are very creative -- writing, visual arts.  Has Nathan expressed any interest in creative pursuits, like art or writing?

 

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38 minutes ago, Howl said:

This line has more baggage than the luggage carousel at DFW: 

A mature man will see beyond the moment and will lead by choosing to honor you instead of pursuing his own preferences. 

This was, apparently, a long-distance courtship to some extent, meaning (to me) that these are two people who don't really know each other, but they hold  a belief that staying in their lanes in the assigned fundy gender roles re: patriarchy/headship will make everything OK.  

Most (all) of the Pennington kids are very creative -- writing, visual arts.  Has Nathan expressed any interest in creative pursuits, like art or writing?

 

Yes, he is a creative too. I think he and patience are into Christian filmmaking. 

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