Duggars by the Dozen 37: Your new thread

[Fundielandobserver]

It seems that out of the married daughters only Jessa went . Seems Jessa will keep t he fundie roots far more than the other married daughters!

[HarleyQuinn]

Anna trying to tease another pregnancy is amusing. They really seem desperate for attention. 

[VelociRapture]

14 minutes ago, Fundielandobserver said:

It seems that out of the married daughters only Jessa went . Seems Jessa will keep t he fundie roots far more than the other married daughters!

Joy and Austin still seem just as Fundie. They might not have been able to attend because of work commitments though. Flipping houses can be a very time sensitive business. Or they might have agreed to help out at Fort Rock. Jessa doesn’t really have commitments like that to consider and there’s more than enough family there to watch the boys if Ben had to stay home for some reason. 

I doubt Jeremy (and possibly Jinger) would want to be caught attending one of these, even if they actually agree with the beliefs. It would tarnish their shiny turd of a Fundie Hipster Preacher and perfect family image. 

Jill is the interesting one to me. She was the daughter who was most outspoken on the original show when it came to promoting their family and beliefs. Now? She’s wearing pants, has a nose ring, and her family is nowhere to be seen at the Family Conference. The last time she posted something IBLP related (that I saw at least) was a month after Samuel was born when she mentioned ALERT was enrolling new recruits - since then, anything religious in nature has been related to Cross Church or books she’s been reading.

I have zero doubts the Dills are still extremely Fundie, but it appears they might be moving to a different type of Fundie - more Cross Church Fundie than IBLP Fundie in some ways. I don’t think it’ll mean very much in the long run, but a switch like that could possibly open Jill and the boys up to a few more options than IBLP would.

[SassyPants]

25 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

Joy and Austin still seem just as Fundie. They might not have been able to attend because of work commitments though. Flipping houses can be a very time sensitive business. Or they might have agreed to help out at Fort Rock. Jessa doesn’t really have commitments like that to consider and there’s more than enough family there to watch the boys if Ben had to stay home for some reason. 

I doubt Jeremy (and possibly Jinger) would want to be caught attending one of these, even if they actually agree with the beliefs. It would tarnish their shiny turd of a Fundie Hipster Preacher and perfect family image. 

Jill is the interesting one to me. She was the daughter who was most outspoken on the original show when it came to promoting their family and beliefs. Now? She’s wearing pants, has a nose ring, and her family is nowhere to be seen at the Family Conference. The last time she posted something IBLP related (that I saw at least) was a month after Samuel was born when she mentioned ALERT was enrolling new recruits - since then, anything religious in nature has been related to Cross Church or books she’s been reading.

I have zero doubts the Dills are still extremely Fundie, but it appears they might be moving to a different type of Fundie - more Cross Church Fundie than IBLP Fundie in some ways. I don’t think it’ll mean very much in the long run, but a switch like that could possibly open Jill and the boys up to a few more options than IBLP would.

Maybe it’s the whole law school and keeping the social media controversy to a minimum thing.  I am glad that they have taken a step back. They need to find a way to realistically support their families and moderate their image. I think the reality TV life is a house of cards just waiting to cave in.

[lizzybee]

I've been listening to some of John MacArthur's sermons lately out of curiosity and he's very heavy, like the heaviest kind of preaching I've ever heard. I'd honestly rather listen to a fire and brimstone baptist revival preacher ANY day of the week. No one is Christian enough for him. He's joyless and severe. That's what Jeremy is into and therefore by default Jinger. I can't say that's any better or more refreshing even if she is wearing pants. As a Christian, listening to MacArthur has left me with a takeaway that I'm not doing enough, striving enough, praying enough, etc. etc. etc. That I may not be saved even if I think I am. Gosh, I'd rather listen to almost anyone else. I pulled up some Adrian Rodgers last night (the Duggar fam likes him) and after listening to MacArthur, man it was refreshing. THAT is saying something too. So no, we've not freed Jinger. If anything, MacArthur might be more oppressive Kool-aid and just another brand. 

Jill? I agree with @VelociRapture on the idea that she's more interesting to watch. Jill has crossed over to the type of Christianity that is honestly more mainstream. As a Baptist from the south, her church is more "normal" than even the types of churches I grew up being exposed to (my grandparents are hard-shell Baptists) - and until recently I didn't consider that "normal Baptist" fundie at all, but apparently in the larger scheme of things, it is. The Duggars' 19KAC lifestyle was far and away different than my experience as a Christian which is why I've always considered them fundie and myself not. But that's not my debate here, I accept that my beliefs and background is fundie. What I'm saying is, I grew up in churches much less liberal than Cross Church. I would have never lived with a man outside of marriage or even gotten a nose ring. It made my grandmother uncomfortable when I started listening to Christian music that wasn't hymns! BUT I went public school, then to college, lived on campus, listened to secular music, selected my own spouse, etc. etc. I am very interested to see what happens with Jill when it comes to her kids in the future. It seems like her marriage to Derick has indeed taken her out of the context of her family's cult. I don't mean to say they're not very Christian and in deeper than I've ever been, BUT I am saying that it is extremely different than what I've seen of Jill's home life* growing up. I'd love to be a fly on the wall and hear what's really going on there and what everyone thinks of it. 

*I've said this before but I'll say it again. Christianity as translated in this way is pretty much going to be the same no matter where you go to church. You can go to Church of the Highlands and an IFB church and get essentially the same message/the same list of "what we believe." The difference is the packaging. You want flashy lights, worship like you're at a concert, less guilt? Go to a church like Cross church. The gospel presentation is still the same. The fundamental biblical teaching is the same. You might get a little prosperity gospel thrown in, but honestly I've heard that old story of God blessing you the more you give/robbing the Lord in small conservative Baptist churches too. It's basically this: you can pick how you want your eggs - add ins, style of cooking it, etc. but in the end you're still eating eggs. So with that said, it's not Jill's deep beliefs that interest me, because I don't think that's changed at all. It's the life she makes for her family outside of the context of her family's lifestyle which is already looking to me to be vastly different.   

**I just want to clarify that I'm not at all okay with the prosperity gospel because I think it's the worst. I'm just saying the bigger the church the more likely you are to find a flavor of prosperity gospel there. 

Edited May 3, 2019 by lizzybee

[SassyPants]

I could never understand believing in a God (or a religion) that preached hate and directed from a base of fear. Why would I want to spend eternity with that message? I was an active Catholic for 45 years and I never heard hate or fear preached from the pulpit, and when the RCC started down a path that I no longer agreed with it, I moved on. I took a break from organized religion for 10 years, and 3 years ago started attending a UU Fellowship. I love it. Such a positive environment. I agree about Jill. I think if Dereck could just learn to critically think and control his tongue, there might be some hope for them. 

[JordynDarby5]

3 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

I could never understand believing in a God (or a religion) that preached hate and directed from a base of fear. Why would I want to spend eternity with that message? I was an active Catholic for 45 years and I never heard hate or fear preached from the pulpit, and when the RCC started down a path that I no longer agreed with it, I moved on. I took a break from organized religion for 10 years, and 3 years ago started attending a UU Fellowship. I love it. Such a positive environment. I agree about Jill. I think if Dereck could just learn to critically think and control his tongue, there might be some hope for them. 

I never have either. I was raised on the God loves you and everyone and basically a happy God. Everyone is accepted and love. Be nice to people and help each other and stuff. But even if I wasn't I can't imagine being drawn to a fear God. Every time I've heard a fear sermon or any of that stuff its always been a big turn off. 

[VelociRapture]

13 minutes ago, lizzybee said:

I've been listening to some of John MacArthur's sermons lately out of curiosity and he's very heavy, like the heaviest kind of preaching I've ever heard. I'd honestly rather listen to a fire and brimstone baptist revival preacher ANY day of the week. No one is Christian enough for him. He's joyless and severe. That's what Jeremy is into and therefore by default Jinger. I can't say that's any better or more refreshing even if she is wearing pants. As a Christian, listening to MacArthur has left me with a takeaway that I'm not doing enough, striving enough, praying enough, etc. etc. etc. That I may not be saved even if I think I am. Gosh, I'd rather listen to almost anyone else. I pulled up some Adrian Rodgers last night (the Duggar fam likes him) and after listening to MacArthur, man it was refreshing. THAT is saying something too. So no, we've not freed Jinger. If anything, MacArthur might be more oppressive Kool-aid and just another brand. 

Jill? I agree with @VelociRapture on the idea that she's more interesting to watch. Jill has crossed over to the type of Christianity that is honestly more mainstream. As a Baptist from the south, her church is more "normal" than even the types of churches I grew up being exposed to (my grandparents are hard-shell Baptists) - and until recently I didn't consider that "normal Baptist" fundie at all, but apparently in the larger scheme of things, it is. The Duggars' 19KAC lifestyle was far and away different than my experience as a Christian which is why I've always considered them fundie and myself not. But that's not my debate here, I accept that my beliefs and background is fundie. What I'm saying is, I grew up in churches much less liberal than Cross Church. I would have never lived with a man outside of marriage or even gotten a nose ring. It made my grandmother uncomfortable when I started listening to Christian music that wasn't hymns! BUT I went public school, then to college, lived on campus, listened to secular music, selected my own spouse, etc. etc. I am very interested to see what happens with Jill when it comes to her kids in the future. It seems like her marriage to Derick has indeed taken her out of the context of her family's cult. I don't mean to say they're not very Christian and in deeper than I've ever been, BUT I am saying that it is extremely different than what I've seen of Jill's home life* growing up. I'd love to be a fly on the wall and hear what's really going on there and what everyone thinks of it. 

*I've said this before but I'll say it again. Christianity as translated in this way is pretty much going to be the same no matter where you go to church. You can go to Church of the Highlands and an IFB church and get essentially the same message/the same list of "what we believe." The difference is the packaging. You want flashy lights, worship like you're at a concert, less guilt? Go to a church like Cross church. The gospel presentation is still the same. The fundamental biblical teaching is the same. You might get a little prosperity gospel thrown in, but honestly I've heard that old story of God blessing you the more you give/robbing the Lord in small conservative Baptist churches too. It's basically this: you can pick how you want your eggs - add ins, style of cooking it, etc. but in the end you're still eating eggs. So with that said, it's not Jill's deep beliefs that interest me, because I don't think that's changed at all. It's the life she makes for her family outside of the context of her family's lifestyle which is already looking to me to be vastly different.   

Yes. From what I’ve heard MacArthur sounds like bad news, but especially for someone like Jinger who appeared to have struggled so much with self worth as a teenager*. It seems like it’d be an especially unhealthy message for someone with her background to constantly hear you’re not good enough and there’s no doubt it’d be unhealthy for any kids to hear that growing up as well. Their parents might help balance that message out on a personal level and that would be a good thing, but I don’t like the idea of that being the basic message they’ll hear at Church growing up.

I think this could possibly be the real cause of any potential rift there might be between Jill and her family. Its not that Derick constantly runs his mouth online because he’s saying stuff they all believe. It’s the fact that he’s (maybe unintentionally) moved his family further away from their cult then Jeremy might have and Jill’s parents (and possibly siblings) don’t approve of that. 

*I’m saying this based off that interview she did with Ben on YouTube and her speech at Benessa’s reception dinner. I can be tough on her and Jeremy, but I really don’t like the idea that this is what she might be hearing on a regular basis. I don’t like her beliefs or how she’s choosing to raise her innocent daughter, but she certainly deserves better than that. 

6 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

I could never understand believing in a God (or a religion) that preached hate and directed from a base of fear. Why would I want to spend eternity with that message? I was an active Catholic for 45 years and I never heard hate or fear preached from the pulpit, and when the RCC started down a path that I no longer agreed with it, I moved on. I took a break from organized religion for 10 years, and 3 years ago started attending a UU Fellowship. I love it. Such a positive environment. I agree about Jill. I think if Dereck could just learn to critically think and control his tongue, there might be some hope for them. 

I don’t get it either. I also wasn’t raised Fundie though, which might be part of it. But yeah, if I was religious I’d definitely be more drawn to a God and religion that talks about love and acceptance rather than one all about hate and being unworthy. 

I don’t think the Dills will ever really escape Fundamentalism. I do think they’ve broken away into a slightly less rigid in some ways form though. It’s possible that could lead to more changes down the road, but I’m not too sure about that. I think they’ll likely stay pretty Fundie, just more mainstream Fundie. 

[SassyPants]

In what is very admittedly a very tough world to live in, why would anyone think being bathed in a message of fear, hate and division would be a beacon of hope and salvation; a path on which to live a more fulfilling life?  Talk about drudgery, hopelessness, hate and depression. And here’s the real kicker, has that approach, message or path prepared most of these 2nd generation adults  for an active, participatory, independent, contributing life in society? Could the Seewalds  or Smuggers support themselves without JB and the show? If not for mass reproduction would they even have a show? Could Sarah Maxwell support herself? Could Alyssa W or Erin P support their families all on their own volition?

How is their message and their way better? 

[karen77]

Wow, in that picture at least 3 of the 5 girls is pregnant (maybe 4!) crazy.....

[theotherelise]

Anna's comment is weird. I could see her posting that pic and then a pic of her pregnant with joy, kendra, and jessa. But she had to know that would ramp up speculation while Lauren has been very (appropriately) vocal about not liking being asked. So even if she is pregnant, she clearly doesn't want public speculation. Not cool Anna! 

As weird as it is to say, I do think Jill and Derrick could still end up being pretty mainstream, conservative, fundamental christians. And they are very passionate about some terrible things, but Jill has also been pretty passionate in the past about different beliefs that she no longer seems to hold now, so maybe there is potential for growth still. Not getting my hopes up, but compared to Joy or Joe or Smuggar or Jessa or Josiah, she might have at least a chance.

[Italiangirl]

I know that everybody is thinking Lauren could be pregnant or at least this is what i'm seeing around also on Tumblr about that photo, but could it be Abbie instead? I'm still thinking about the triple couple photo...

[freshlemonade]

The Duggars have a PR person right?  Or is that what Laura does?  I'm surprised that they aren't taking more advantage of so many pregnancies at once.  Wouldn't a photo of Jessa, Kendra, Anna, Joy, Amy, Sierra all barefoot and pregnant in modest ware and long locks be just the thing to share at Big Sandy?  Numbers are dwindling.  Wouldn't that be just what ILBP needs to keep people interested and maybe attract new membership?  Doesn't David Waller have something to do with promotion?  

Pleasantly surprised that they let each mother announce in their own in time in their own way and are not trying to profit off the babypalooza.  (yet)

[SassyPants]

5 minutes ago, freshlemonade said:

The Duggars have a PR person right?  Or is that what Laura does?  I'm surprised that they aren't taking more advantage of so many pregnancies at once.  Wouldn't a photo of Jessa, Kendra, Anna, Joy, Amy, Sierra all barefoot and pregnant in modest ware and long locks be just the thing to share at Big Sandy?  Numbers are dwindling.  Wouldn't that be just what ILBP needs to keep people interested and maybe attract new membership?  Doesn't David Waller have something to do with promotion?  

Pleasantly surprised that they let each mother announce in their own in time in their own way and are not trying to profit off the babypalooza.  (yet)

Probably due to laziness and not getting around to it more than a planned attempt to respect the privacy, choice and individuality of each couple. I abhor the entitled, lazy approach; thinking you’re special and no effort needs to be made for anything in life. 

[karen77]

6 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

Probably due to laziness and not getting around to it more than a planned attempt to respect the privacy, choice and individuality of each couple. I abhor the entitled, lazy approach; thinking you’re special and no effort needs to be made for anything in life. 

Well, the photographer got to do several sessions all at once at least, maybe they got a deal?

[HereticHick]

18 hours ago, lexiloumarie said:

Lauren's mom, isn't it?

She's wearing a godly petticoat/skirt extender, I see. Fundy modesty alterations are always so much better than just buying more modest clothing, because you can show off how modest you are. : )

[ihaveanexamintwodays]

I’m sure they’re waiting as long as possible, until Jessa’s about to pop, to do another group photo - gotta have time to maximize the # of pregnant fundies in one pic! I want to think Abbie is preg from her and John’s body language in recent photos, but she also looks slim as ever (and not just in the belly area) so maybe not. I don’t want to spec on Lauren other than my same-old idea that they’ll announce around their anniversary. Hunger won’t be preg again until after they move. And I saw this idea on tumblr somewhere and now I totally think Jill is wanting to have grandduggar #19 xD 

[VelociRapture]

1 hour ago, freshlemonade said:

The Duggars have a PR person right?  Or is that what Laura does?  I'm surprised that they aren't taking more advantage of so many pregnancies at once.  Wouldn't a photo of Jessa, Kendra, Anna, Joy, Amy, Sierra all barefoot and pregnant in modest ware and long locks be just the thing to share at Big Sandy?  Numbers are dwindling.  Wouldn't that be just what ILBP needs to keep people interested and maybe attract new membership?  Doesn't David Waller have something to do with promotion?  

Pleasantly surprised that they let each mother announce in their own in time in their own way and are not trying to profit off the babypalooza.  (yet)

I’m not really sure why Amy or Sierra would be included. Any is a Duggar, but isn’t IBLP and I’m not sure if Sierra is IBLP either. She’s definitely not a Duggar no matter how much she hangs out with them though. 

[Italiangirl]

In a couple of wedding we could see something like this 

Can you imagine? ? 

[Ivycoveredtower]

8 hours ago, Fundielandobserver said:

It seems that out of the married daughters only Jessa went . Seems Jessa will keep t he fundie roots far more than the other married daughters!

I think Jessa really strives for that top golden child spot. she always had to fight with Jill who has now been kicked from the thrown and Jana who well is almost 30 and not married, Jessa is on baby three sticking very much to her parents rules and not bringing shame on them as some of her siblings have. 

remember growing up Jessa was always the "Bad kid" so it seems she may think she can make up for that now. be the most fundy of the daughters. (Though I think Joy will beat her on that.) 

[lexiloumarie]

Joy has admitted to stuggling to fit into her fundie box. I feel like she's throwing herself in even harder core to make it fit. I remember back maybe even pre-rapture that someone posted on Joy being the youngest Duggars girl to marry, mostly to keep her in the cult. She'd have been about Johannahs age and I thought no way. But it was a fairly accurate prediction - wish I'd have saved it.

 

Jessa is likely a go with the flow believer imo. She likes to fit in so she goes along with what works well for her. 

[lizzybee]

Michelle once made a comment about Jessa that she was one of the hardest to sell but when she settled her mind on something it was a black or white thing and she was all in. I wish I could remember where she said that, because I'm probably poorly paraphrasing. I always think about that when we discuss Jessa - that she'd been convinced on their faith/lifestyle and is likely fixed there. 

[Smee]

8 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

I don’t get it either. I also wasn’t raised Fundie though, which might be part of it. But yeah, if I was religious I’d definitely be more drawn to a God and religion that talks about love and acceptance rather than one all about hate and being unworthy. 

I think there’s a difference between people who find God because they go searching for meaning (& are drawn to ideas that “fit” their views of the world and desires for it) and people who have absorbed it as truth from day 1. There might be a lot about their beliefs that they themselves don’t like or find appealing, but they still believe it because they don’t get to choose who God is. It’s like, I might not LIKE the fact that it’s raining today, but that doesn’t mean I don’t BELIEVE it’s raining, if that makes sense.

 

[Italiangirl]

More picture from the family conference found on Tumblr and instagram. 

So joy is there too, and Jabbie looks good, happy and relax. They really are one of the best suited couple, in thé first months of their marriage. 

[nastyhobbitses]

18 hours ago, SassyPants said:

In what is very admittedly a very tough world to live in, why would anyone think being bathed in a message of fear, hate and division would be a beacon of hope and salvation; a path on which to live a more fulfilling life?  Talk about drudgery, hopelessness, hate and depression. And here’s the real kicker, has that approach, message or path prepared most of these 2nd generation adults  for an active, participatory, independent, contributing life in society? Could the Seewalds  or Smuggers support themselves without JB and the show? If not for mass reproduction would they even have a show? Could Sarah Maxwell support herself? Could Alyssa W or Erin P support their families all on their own volition?

How is their message and their way better? 

Of all of them, I get the vibe that Alyssa is probably the most capable of figuring out her shit if the rug got pulled out from under her. She seems like a very resourceful person who knows how to work with what she has and take advantage of any opportunity she can get at: parents are shit at running the household? I'll do it and do it damn well. I'm tired of being my parents' slave and living by their rules but have very few if any avenues to get out without completely losing everything? WEDDING TIME! I need some more income and I'm conventionally hot? Instagram influencer! In all of these choices I see that she is still toeing the line, but I think that her life choices are evidence that she can adapt and play situations to her advantage, so if the dog and pony show ended tomorrow, she'd be better equipped to deal with it and move forward than a lot of other second-gen fundies.