Duggars by the Dozen 37: Your new thread

[Smee]

My very blurry understanding & personal opinion that has developed: Protestants saw Catholic/Orthodox veneration of Mary (& praying “to”/“through” saints in general) to have become idolatrous worship of a human rather than God. In the process of rejecting this, they (we) kind of over-compensated and now undervalue Mary and her role as the mother of Jesus. Like, I don’t think she should be seen as especially holy herself and I reject the “eternal virgin” idea (Jesus had brothers), but as a person she deserves as much respect and attention as say Peter or Paul or John. Anglicans have an awful lot of “Saint Paul’s” and “Saint Timothy’s” churches  to be getting on their high horse about Mary.

[VelociRapture]

26 minutes ago, Smee said:

My very blurry understanding & personal opinion that has developed: Protestants saw Catholic/Orthodox veneration of Mary (& praying “to”/“through” saints in general) to have become idolatrous worship of a human rather than God. In the process of rejecting this, they (we) kind of over-compensated and now undervalue Mary and her role as the mother of Jesus. Like, I don’t think she should be seen as especially holy herself and I reject the “eternal virgin” idea (Jesus had brothers), but as a person she deserves as much respect and attention as say Peter or Paul or John. Anglicans have an awful lot of “Saint Paul’s” and “Saint Timothy’s” churches  to be getting on their high horse about Mary.

I like this. I think it’s a really nice compromise between the two camps. I’m not comfortable with the eternal virgin story (why couldn’t Mary have some fun and make more babies with her actual husband?), but I also really dislike how some Protestant denominations are so dismissive of her role as Jesus’ mother too. Yes, he was allegedly part God, but he was part human through Mary too and she (and Joseph - he care for and raised Jesus too!) is a huge reason he wound up being the person he’s alleged to have been. 

ETA: I was raised Catholic and currently have no clue what I believe, partly because I don't agree completely with how either Catholics or Protestants view Mary. 

Edited May 1, 2019 by VelociRapture

[tabitha2]

I always just assumed she was a Virgin during Jesus Conception and birth and then had Children the usual way.  She had other children per the bible Unless The mentioned siblings were Joseph’s children .

[Greendoor]

I am Anglican.  I think Mary must have been on special person to have been chosen.  Joseph too.  Going with it is God's son, I can not image the pressure and responsibility of not screwing up as a parent. 

[VeryNikeSeamstress]

On 4/28/2019 at 4:57 AM, omgpleasestop said:

Of all the Duggar boys, he and Joe are my top pick for handsome.

Which howler is this? Since I haven't actually watched CO in a long time, I'm forgetting what all the younger Duggars look like. Plus kids grow and change so quickly in the puberty years.

[Vivi_music]

I am liking this discussion about Mary. Very interesting.

In the Catholic Church, Jesus' family is actually quite predominant but it wasn't always that way. I know that the veneration of Joseph was not important until maybe the 15th-16th century, and he was put back into the limelight because of the clergy's effort to venerate him and give him importance. Even the Holy family as a unit was only venerated since the 17th century.

Their is also a important veneration to Anne, Mary's mother and Jesus' grandmother (a nun told me that is why we venerated her and Joachim... which I doubt if the true theoligical explanation Sister Joyce... but okay). Saint Joachim was named as well as an important saint when I was growing up Catholic but nothing compared to Anne's devotion. Where I am from, one of the biggest shrine and pilgrimage site in the province is a Basilica dedicated to Anne. She is also not the official patron saint of fur traders and voyageur, but there was a special devotion to her within that community, which I'm sure helped shape her devotion in French Canada.

I am no way a scholar, just someone who was raised Catholic and has some thoughts.

[MargaretElliott]

As someone who has raised Catholic, I have literally never heard of the "eternal Virgin" thing. Like, why? Where did Jesus's siblings come from? Did they spring forth from the Earth like some Greek myth? Did God have other children that were conceived immaculately, but weren't Jesus-level important? And besides, she was married, she was fulfilling that "be fruitful and multiply" thing in a Church-approved way. Who the heck would ever thing she was an eternal virgin?!?!?

I'm confused.

[Cleopatra7]

1 hour ago, MargaretElliott said:

As someone who has raised Catholic, I have literally never heard of the "eternal Virgin" thing. Like, why? Where did Jesus's siblings come from? Did they spring forth from the Earth like some Greek myth? Did God have other children that were conceived immaculately, but weren't Jesus-level important? And besides, she was married, she was fulfilling that "be fruitful and multiply" thing in a Church-approved way. Who the heck would ever thing she was an eternal virgin?!?!?

I'm confused.

According to the Catholic Church, Jesus’ siblings were actually his cousins. The proof for this is that the Hebrew word for brothers is the same as the one for cousins. So much time as passed between the writing of the gospels and the present time that there’s really no way to know for sure. The Christological controversy lasted for roughly 300 years (ie the intra Christian fight over the nature of Jesus) and there were dozens of different interpretations about the identity and role of Jesus and his family and followers.

The reason why the Catholic Church says that Mary was always a virgin has to do with a particular reading of Isaiah that says that a virgin will give birth to the redeemer. However, modern scholars tend to agree that the word “virgin” actually means young woman without any reference to her marital state or lack there of. Conservative Catholics get around this by 1. Ignoring modern biblical scholarship 2. Falling back on a sort of Jerome Vulgate/Douay-Rheims onlyism by saying that the Latin Vulgate version of the Bible and its vernacular translations are an inspired texts canonizes by the church, whereas modern Bible translations are full of “modernist” errors.

[Eponine]

3 hours ago, MargaretElliott said:

As someone who has raised Catholic, I have literally never heard of the "eternal Virgin" thing. Like, why? Where did Jesus's siblings come from? Did they spring forth from the Earth like some Greek myth? Did God have other children that were conceived immaculately, but weren't Jesus-level important? And besides, she was married, she was fulfilling that "be fruitful and multiply" thing in a Church-approved way. Who the heck would ever thing she was an eternal virgin?!?!?

I'm confused.

I think some people also believe those were Joseph's children from a previous (or I suppose subsequent?) wife. He was definitely old enough to have had children already when they got married.

I think that's a bit of a stretch, personally.

[justmy2cents]

Here's a picture from the  ATI Family conference they're at this week.

[SassyPants]

4 minutes ago, justmy2cents said:

Here's a picture from the  ATI Family conference they're at this week.

How can that be from this week? Is that Jessa? If so, did she have the baby already, LOL!

[justmy2cents]

14 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

How can that be from this week? Is that Jessa? If so, did she have the baby already, LOL!

There's a picture of me 2 weeks prior to my daughter's birth where my belly looks no bigger than Jessa's here. Black hides a lot when you're facing forward or are being partially covered by the person standing next to you.

 

Edited May 2, 2019 by justmy2cents

[Smee]

Who’s on the far left?

[lexiloumarie]

7 minutes ago, Smee said:

Who’s on the far left?

Lauren's mom, isn't it?

[SassyPants]

7 minutes ago, Smee said:

Who’s on the far left?

Lauren’s mom, I think.

[justmy2cents]

8 minutes ago, Smee said:

Who’s on the far left?

That's Lauren's mom.

 

ETA: Great minds think alike. ?

Edited May 2, 2019 by justmy2cents

[SassyPants]

Here’s a link to Jessas IG with a picture at 31 weeks. She’s more like 36 weeks now. There’s no way she’s hiding that bump.

 

[justmy2cents]

2 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

Here’s a link to Jessas IG with a picture at 31 weeks. She’s more like 36 weeks now. There’s no way she’s hiding that bump.

If you compare my picture above to one a few weeks earlier where I'm wearing  the same color as Jessa and standing in profile you'd see a huge difference.

i got that picture of them from Duggarfam Instastory. They talked about the upcoming conference last week.

[Dominionatrix]

Anna has taken it upon herself to unleash even more intense pregnancy speculation on her sisters-in-law. Given Lauren's situation, I find this incredibly insensitive. People are going to be hounding her and the others even more fervently than ever. Even if every one of them is pregnant, they still clearly aren't ready to announce. Dick move, Anna!

[SassyPants]

Well, I wear black all the time and my stomach hasn’t been minimized- definitely doing something wrong over here. ? 

[nickelodeon]

55 minutes ago, justmy2cents said:

Here's a picture from the  ATI Family conference they're at this week.

Good to know everyone was in attendance at Michelle’s “how to abuse your kid” seminar!

It seems Jill didn’t go this year. Did Joy Anna skip too?

[VelociRapture]

There’s another photo they shared as well stating they took part in a Mother Daughter panel:

I can only imagine how riveting that must have been. 

Based off these photos (and the post Jill made today showing them at home), it appears that John, Jill, Jinger, and Joy probably didn’t attend. 

ETA: Actually, the woman with the curly hair and black dress looks a lot like Abbie. She’s definitely worn a dress that looks very similar to that one in recent photos. So I think John and Abbie likely did attend. 

21 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

Well, I wear black all the time and my stomach hasn’t been minimized- definitely doing something wrong over here. ? 

I don’t really see why they’d lie though. Or why Abbie would be shown on stage with them during the Mother/Daughter panel of this was from last year. 

Edited May 3, 2019 by VelociRapture

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

Looks like Jill & Joy stayed home. Derrick has school and Jill is pretty much the only person who can stand him, so they didn't go and I'm guessing Austin has to work either on a house or at the family camp so the Forsyth's stayed in NWA as well.  Are Austin's parents ATI/IBLP? 

[SassyPants]

37 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

There’s another photo they shared as well stating they took part in a Mother Daughter panel:

I can only imagine how riveting that must have been. 

Based off these photos (and the post Jill made today showing them at home), it appears that John, Jill, Jinger, and Joy probably didn’t attend. 

ETA: Actually, the woman with the curly hair and black dress looks a lot like Abbie. She’s definitely worn a dress that looks very similar to that one in recent photos. So I think John and Abbie likely did attend. 

I don’t really see why they’d lie though. Or why Abbie would be shown on stage with them during the Mother/Daughter panel of this was from last year. 

Thanks for posting the other photo. It clearly is Jessa and she is in the same outfit!

[Italiangirl]

Well, it seems that Anna is strongly impliing that someone else is pregnant, so who will be next? 

Now it almost seems crazy that just a month ago there was only one pregnant Duggar, ah! They are really regain the time lost  ?