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Josh, Anna, the M' kids Part 19: Josh's Thwarted Ambitions


samurai_sarah

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4 minutes ago, Sky with diamonds said:

Anna is still in her fundie bubble. 

Truthfully, despite all of the mess with Josh (and potential future messes- I don't see him keeping his nose clean), I think Anna is among the most marinated in the Kool-ade. She'll never deviate from full Fundie.

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I still can't wrap my head around Anna. I mean I understand she was raised this way and all that but posting about relationships? Really? She spent 6 months living with Jana and the little girls in her in-laws house because her husband was in Jesus jail. How does she even think she has the right to talk about marriage? And to be so smug about other people. Out of everyone, bitch needs to sit down and shut up because she won't like what people will say to her face. She deletes IG comments, that's fine but one of these days someone is going to straight up say something to her face and she won't know what hit her. But I think that's the Brooklynite in me. Sometimes truth and bluntness is just our go to. She can't possibly be that naive after all that has happened to think that people will even believe her.

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2 hours ago, OyToTheVey said:

She can't possibly be that naive after all that has happened to think that people will even believe her

I wonder if Anna is doing what some people will do on an issue no matter what the evidence to the contrary: hunker down.     Maybe to prove to herself if not other people that it's ok or whatever, but I can't for a minute think that she's not aware of how people view her husband, her marriage and what the hell is she doing still with him.   

Like I said before, people can overlook infidelity and understand why a wife would stay in the face of that however people do not overlook someone molesting his sisters.  They just don't.     

Now that might be where Anna is being naive.    She doesn't get that what he did to his sisters is worse than Ashley Madison, in the public view, not in her fundie bubble.

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I don't think that Anna has any self awareness.  Her whole life she has been conditioned to believe that the world is out to get righteous god-fearing folk like her.  So if things are good, then she is making God happy and being blessed.  If things are bad, then she is being persecuted because she is such a super wonderful Christian. 

I don't think that Josh and Anna are rejected in their own circles.  The fundie world has a lot of history of just sweeping abuse under the rug so I think a lot of people the know don't see a huge problem with what happened.  I don't think that they will be publically campaigning for anyone anymore, but I think they are still inside the circle behind the scenes.  

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6 minutes ago, TXGirlInAMaterialWorld said:

I don't think that Josh and Anna are rejected in their own circles.  The fundie world has a lot of history of just sweeping abuse under the rug so I think a lot of people the know don't see a huge problem with what happened. 

I agree that they are likely not rejected in their own circles and sadly for the reason mentioned, that abuse does get swept under the rug.   As does infidelity.   Because Jebus.   

One thing though is that Anna and Josh have been outside of fundie circles particularly while in DC for example.   While there only a couple of years, they certainly both would have been exposed to the greater diversity in the DC area as compared to NWA.  Maybe that exposure did nothing for either of them as far as self awareness.    

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What I don't think Anna realizes is that when the truth about Josh and her marriage came out, and then later when she chose to stay with him despite those allegations and the abuse of his sisters, both she and Josh vacated the moral high ground for the vast majority of American Christians.  Things she said before are now met with a different reaction because people no longer believe that either she or Josh have the moral authority to say those things, judge others on certain things, etc.  

And that sucks for her because many of her brothers and sisters in law STILL have some form of that high ground, can make the exact same post, and will get a different response.  But Josh and Anna are no longer people to look up to.  They are, at best, just the same as everyone else, and at worst, disgraced and terrible examples who do not have the authority to presume to instruct ANYONE.  

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On 3/30/2019 at 1:44 PM, Carm_88 said:

Could Anna and Josh adopt? I know that he doesn't technically have a record, but he is a known child molester. Not that I would want any child adopted into the Duggar household! 

Josh isn't a child molester. Josh sexually assaulted his sisters... when he was also a child. As an adult, he's a cheater, adulterer, and fornicator. I'm sorry if this seems nit-picky, but I just think word choice is important when we're talking about these sensitive subjects. Josh Duggar is many, MANY awful things, but he's not a child molester or a pedophile. 

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Dear Anna,

Let's get back to an even better definition of marriage; let's support Biblical marriage!

Spoiler

image.png.f38b1160852db91861c3f95c26bd4492.png.326c06697c55642001486768cc9aac73.png

Your in Rufus' name,

WWJCD?

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11 hours ago, viii said:

Josh isn't a child molester. Josh sexually assaulted his sisters... when he was also a child. As an adult, he's a cheater, adulterer, and fornicator. I'm sorry if this seems nit-picky, but I just think word choice is important when we're talking about these sensitive subjects. Josh Duggar is many, MANY awful things, but he's not a child molester or a pedophile. 

I always thought he was a child molester (since he did molest children), but not a pedophile (since he was so young when he did it). Is that wrong?  If so, what would be the right terminology to describe the person who does what he did?

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20 hours ago, nokidsmom said:

I wonder if Anna is doing what some people will do on an issue no matter what the evidence to the contrary: hunker down.     Maybe to prove to herself if not other people that it's ok or whatever, but I can't for a minute think that she's not aware of how people view her husband, her marriage and what the hell is she doing still with him.   

Like I said before, people can overlook infidelity and understand why a wife would stay in the face of that however people do not overlook someone molesting his sisters.  They just don't.     

Now that might be where Anna is being naive.    She doesn't get that what he did to his sisters is worse than Ashley Madison, in the public view, not in her fundie bubble.

Delusional? Maybe she realizes she married a douche, but believes she has no acceptable/possible way out (in her fundie logic), and therefore goes overboard to convince herself that she did the right thing and everyone else is out to get her. Admitting she made a mistake would be admitting that the whole cult is a sham based on lies and controlling people, and perhaps she can't bring herself to do it, given that it would shatter everything she has ever known/done/believed. That is a scary thought.

On the flipside, she is an adult and more than that, she is a MOTHER OF FIVE who is subjecting her children to that. I can't sympathize. 

Other examples: Jilly Muffin #besthubbyever, Zsucifer. 

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7 hours ago, lumpentheologie said:

I always thought he was a child molester (since he did molest children), but not a pedophile (since he was so young when he did it). Is that wrong?  If so, what would be the right terminology to describe the person who does what he did?

Turd Face

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Shouldabeenacowboy said:

 

 

Edited by Bobology
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1 hour ago, Shouldabeenacowboy said:

Admitting she made a mistake would be admitting that the whole cult is a sham based on lies and controlling people, and perhaps she can't bring herself to do it, given that it would shatter everything she has ever known/done/believed. That is a scary thought.

^ Referring to Anna.  Boy howdy, it really is. This is part of why I don't 100% blame the 2nd gen for not getting out in their 20s. A lot of maturity will have to occur for most of them in order to shake the stronghold their parents and jesus have over them. The biggest blame falls on the parents for doing this to their children. For those who want out it could take decades to fully be free. So the little steps here and there are important.

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8 hours ago, lumpentheologie said:

I always thought he was a child molester (since he did molest children), but not a pedophile (since he was so young when he did it). Is that wrong?  If so, what would be the right terminology to describe the person who does what he did?

An Asshole. 

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I did have a degree of sympathy for Anna for what Josh done to her but posting stuff about gay marriage when your own husband was cheating on her and was seeking to cheat while she was even pregnant, is not a great idea. I still wish her and Josh are happy for both their sakes and the children's but Josh will screw up again, if he hasn't already and Anna will keep letting him do it. 

Mackynzie and Micheal were old enough to grasp that their dad had to leave them for months the last time and probably sensed any atmosphere between Josh and Anna between it breaking he was on Ashley Madison and him leaving. Any other scandal breaking will hurt them and the younger children a lot more. 

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9 hours ago, lumpentheologie said:

I always thought he was a child molester (since he did molest children), but not a pedophile (since he was so young when he did it). Is that wrong?  If so, what would be the right terminology to describe the person who does what he did?

This is the umpteenth discussion of this topic, which has been talked about to death before. Good luck in resolving the question this time.

Doesn't matter what criminal category you put Josh in as far as I'm concerned. He is a turd, and something was/is wrong with him that he did what he did to his sisters and an unrelated person.

1 hour ago, Gnomewizard said:

 

 

Edited by SilverBeach
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I don't think asshole does sum it up.  He's an asshole for cheating on his wife; what he did to his sisters is much worse. No one is horrified when a woman is married to an asshole (tons of assholes out there), but we are horrified by the idea of marrying (or staying with) someone who has committed sexual assault, and especially sexual assault of children. 

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5 minutes ago, lumpentheologie said:

I don't think asshole does sum it up.  He's an asshole for cheating on his wife; what he did to his sisters is much worse. No one is horrified when a woman is married to an asshole (tons of assholes out there), but we are horrified by the idea of marrying (or staying with) someone who has committed sexual assault, and especially sexual assault of children. 

Yeah. An asshole is someone who cuts you off in traffic. Josh goes way beyond that.

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6 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

Yeah. An asshole is someone who cuts you off in traffic. Josh goes way beyond that.

No doubt. Josh is indeed an asshole for many reasons. Asshole, to me, can encompass many things though. I'll just say he is reprehensible, appalling, and disgusting, and leave it at that. Would never minimize his terribleness. Have hated him for many years.

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34 minutes ago, lumpentheologie said:

I don't think asshole does sum it up.  He's an asshole for cheating on his wife; what he did to his sisters is much worse. No one is horrified when a woman is married to an asshole (tons of assholes out there), but we are horrified by the idea of marrying (or staying with) someone who has committed sexual assault, and especially sexual assault of children. 

I have many times over the years on this forum expressed my disgust with Anna for deciding to stay with Josh, although many here made excuses for her. I am indeed horrified by one of my friends who is married to a lyin' cheatin' asshole, but as far as I know he hasn't committed any acts of sexual predation. What horrifies you and what horrifies me may be different, but I agree that Anna staying with her turd of a husband is sickening. At no time was I ever trying to diminish the awfulness of Josh or Anna.

Edited by SilverBeach
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21 hours ago, viii said:

Josh isn't a child molester. Josh sexually assaulted his sisters... when he was also a child. As an adult, he's a cheater, adulterer, and fornicator. I'm sorry if this seems nit-picky, but I just think word choice is important when we're talking about these sensitive subjects. Josh Duggar is many, MANY awful things, but he's not a child molester or a pedophile. 

YES! We need to remember that pedophiles don't just stop molesting children. Josh hasn't kept on going after little girls he's moved on to grown women. He did sexually abuse his sisters, he was a curious young boy in a sexually repressed world and not allowed to explore his curiosity in a healthy way. He explored it in the only way he could with the only "women" he could his younger sisters.  He didn't assault them because they were children he assaulted them because they were female. 

Now I'm not in ANYWAY excusing what he did, just explaining why I agree he isn't a pedophile. 

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14 minutes ago, SilverBeach said:

No doubt. Josh is indeed an asshole for many reasons. Asshole, to me, can encompass many things though. I'll just say he is reprehensible, appalling, and disgusting, and leave it at that. Would never minimize his terribleness. Have hated him for many years.

Oh yeah, being an asshole and being something even worse absolutely aren't mutually exclusive!

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1 minute ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

We need to remember that pedophiles don't just stop molesting children.

Why do we need to remember that? I don't call him a pedophile, nor do I make excuses for him, but I don't think it matters. I have zero sympathy for hm, my sympathy is all reserved for the victims and I don't agree with the reasons you are stating for why he did it. Maybe one time, but five victims with how many incidents? Sure he was raised in a toxic environment but damn, my household of origin was dysfunctional and neither one of my brothers molested  me.

I'll take this thread off my feed until this discussion has run its course. It comes up from time to time, like clockwork, and each time nothing is resolved.

8 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

Oh yeah, being an asshole and being something even worse absolutely aren't mutually exclusive!

Absolutely.

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