Where in the World is Doug Phillips (Who is a Tool)? Part 10

[Mrs Ms]

But....but....but, it’s CNN! Which means it’s fake news!!11!!

[The Mother Dust]

On 6/4/2019 at 8:30 AM, browngrl said:

Beall seems to have Schrödinger's cat version of marriage. Her marriage might be dead or not but we can't be sure till the box is opened.

Omg, part 11 of this thread needs to be called "Schrödinger's marriage." @Coconut Flan ?lol

Edited June 8, 2019 by The Mother Dust

[AnnaSofia]

OMG yes! That is perfect

[RulerOfTheQueensNavy]

 

 

 

On 5/27/2019 at 10:15 AM, hoipolloi said:

After divorcing that husband, Aimee has ended up as a plural wife & the household appears to be into faux Judaism now, or something involving head coverings & Shabbat Shalom. Not sure they were ever LDS or FLDS.

 

 

Where did you find out about this? More info, please? We were very good friends with the Wheelers and stayed in their house several times.  It's been so long I can't remember, but I had a huge crush on Noelle or Aimee.  I can't remember which one was my age.

[RulerOfTheQueensNavy]

 

 

 

 

3

On 6/1/2019 at 11:55 AM, Palimpsest said:

He has lived by God's provision since the 1970s.  Well, kind of.  He never asks for money but prays for donations, very like Shrader.  He managed to ingratiate himself with a Hollywood song-writer (can't remember the name) who died and left LB the royalties to some quite famous songs.  Also he and Marilyn inherited $$$ from her father.  FIL was a "frugal" Scot and never gave Little Bear anything more than gas money before he died.  The gas money was probably to get to get him out of FIL's home and back to the shack they owned in the PNW every year.

I think he moved down to TX in the 1990s.  Thanks to none other than Jim Leininger.  Little Bear wasn't able to video his Mantle Ministry crapola until Leininger bought a TV station and helped him out.  Otherwise, he publishes obscure and out of print books and did radio shit.  You can blame Little Bear for republishing Elsie Dinsmore.

Honestly, I think this is a bit ungenerous towards Little Bear.   In the homeschool movement, there are power hungry leaders, followers, true believers and those were along for the ride but somewhat skeptical.  I spend a lot of time in the San Antonio area and got to know the Wakefields, Wheelers, and Phillips families quite well.

There is no doubt that the Phillips family were tools (power hungry leaders).  They were superior, narcissistic and I don't know if there were any good intentions involved other gaining adulation and power.  However, I feel that it is really unfair to clump them all together.  Phillips was a power hungry leader.  Many of these people, however misguided in the end, were honestly trying to counter the wrongs they saw in the culture at the time.  However, they tended to follow the power-hungry leader types without questioning and pass it on to their followers. This would include people like my parents.

We knew the Wheelers very well, had them in our house and stayed in theirs.  They were genuine people.  They were people doing a ministry that they saw a need for.  These are not people that we had to pretend to be legalistic around.  They saw things going wrong in culture from their worldview and were trying to right it.  And yes, did that lead to a lot of misguided stuff.

But I don't feel that is fair to lump people like the Wheelers in with the Phillips, Bill Gothard, Mike Farris, and others who were the true brain trust of the movement.  The "Blind ones" leading the blind followers.  Please don't put everyone in the same basket.

Also, the ministry is expensive and needs funding.  Every non-profit out there needs funding, both religious and secular.  There are individuals, foundations, large donors and such that give.  Some of these organizations are misguided, some are not.  Does it matter if get got funding from his father-in-law, the Leiningers or small givers like our family?  Is Habitat for Humanity evil, just because it receives donations?  Let's criticize the ideas that were wrong instead of whining about bull like where the money comes from.

[AnnaSofia]

45 minutes ago, RulerOfTheQueensNavy said:

Where did you find out about this? More info, please? We were very good friends with the Wheelers and stayed in their house several times.  It's been so long I can't remember, but I had a huge crush on Noelle or Aimee.  I can't remember which one was my age.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152835371944821&set=a.432402329820&type=3

Click the comments for the photo and you'll see the "husband", Gene K Freshour.

Edited June 8, 2019 by AnnaSofia

[refugee]

FWIW, @RulerOfTheQueensNavy, I found Little Bear much more personable than Phillips or Farris or SproulJr in regards to briefly talking to each when they came to our part of the country for homeschool conventions or workshops.

It’s true, it stings to get lumped together with the evil-minded ones when we were merely stupid and guilty of disengaging our critical thinking capacity. On the other hand, our choices did some real damage to our kids.

Some ex-fundie parents have apologized and received forgiveness and understanding from the kids, and consider the source when FJ onlookers (those who see this as entertainment or whatever but have never lived the nightmare) denounce us all as monsters. Okay, maybe exaggerating. A little.

Some parents never apologize, even defend their choices and blame the kidults for the damage the parents did. I’ve finally started cutting these toxic people out of my life, but it’s difficult because even a nightmare can have its good moments, and those are hard to let go.

Anyhow, it is what it is. Thanks for injecting a “this was my personal experience with these families” note.

Edited June 8, 2019 by refugee
Perfectionism and autocorrect don’t get along sometimes

[Palimpsest]

@RulerOfTheQueensNavy, I like your chosen moniker.  It makes me want to break into the song.

I think it must be difficult for anyone when you know people we snark on personally to read here.   And the temptation to defend them (and yourself if you really do fund the "ministry") must be enormous.

However, I stand by my opinion of Richard "Little Bear" Wheeler.  He may be an adorable teddy bear in person, but that doesn't excuse the poison he has disseminated for years.  And it doesn't excuse his financial irresponsibility over the years either.  I pity his wife and children.  They lived in a barely habitable shack and spent plenty of time in broken down RVs while Richard pursued his "God-given" purpose.  

In short, "Little Bear" is not a harmless buffoon.  He is judgmental, narrow-minded, hateful, patronising purveyor of cultural appropriation and sickeningly revisionist history. 

He has some very ugly beliefs.

He may not be as influential, power grabbing, or as obnoxious in person as Doug Phillips.   In fact his "niceness" may make him even more dangerous.  I shudder to think that he worked with youth.

I base my opinion on his autobiography, his Mantle Ministry videos, and the revisionist "history" crap he rewrites and publishes. And on things like this.

 http://beforethekiss.com/testimony files/Joshua Noelle Goforth.html

And this:  http://eho.org/reviews/individual_review2.asp?revid=1025

If you can read the autobiography and come to the conclusion that Richard Wheeler is not a selfish, irresponsible, religious zealot with a marginal grasp on reality, then you need a reality check too.  His autobiography:  The Little Bear Story: The Adventures of a Retarded Gopher Skinner

1 hour ago, RulerOfTheQueensNavy said:

 Every non-profit out there needs funding, both religious and secular.  There are individuals, foundations, large donors and such that give.  Some of these organizations are misguided, some are not.  Does it matter if get got funding from his father-in-law, the Leiningers or small givers like our family?  Is Habitat for Humanity evil, just because it receives donations?  Let's criticize the ideas that were wrong instead of whining about bull like where the money comes from.

The funding and the sources of the funding absolutely matter.  Let us also criticize the funders, whether they are innocent leg-humpers, misguided fools, or equally zealous, evil, and hateful people who believe in those ideas and enable the Wheelers of this world to disseminate their poison.

I put billionaires like Leininger and the Green family in the last category, by the way. 

And do you think that demons literally live in televisions and can reach out and grab your children just like in the movie Poltergeist.  "Little Bear" believes they do.

[RulerOfTheQueensNavy]

 

 

 

38 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

@RulerOfTheQueensNavy I think it must be difficult for anyone when you know people we snark on personally to read here.   And the temptation to defend them (and yourself if you really do fund the "ministry") must be enormous.

I left the homeschool movement 17+ years ago after TWO disastrous "courtships" broke me and almost drove me to the point of no return.  So no I don't fund them.

But it must be nice to sit there knowing you are right.   Please enlighten us to the person who's got it all figured out and will cause no harm to the rest of the world with their ideas.

Some of us are sitting here trying to make sense out of the legacy of our parents.  People who spent years of their life trying to do what was right and left their kids deeply hurt and confused.  What if you wake up one day and find out most of what you believed is wrong. I'm sure you are strong enough to put Humpty back together again perfectly.

Please draw us a line in the sand so we know what is good and what is not.  Meanwhile, just continue casting stones at everyone and everything, whether they genuinely tried or were a total tool. It's just so easy when you know you are always right.

[Palimpsest]

46 minutes ago, RulerOfTheQueensNavy said:

I left the homeschool movement 17+ years ago after TWO disastrous "courtships" broke me and almost drove me to the point of no return.  So no I don't fund them.

But it must be nice to sit there knowing you are right.   Please enlighten us to the person who's got it all figured out and will cause no harm to the rest of the world with their ideas.

Some of us are sitting here trying to make sense out of the legacy of our parents.  People who spent years of their life trying to do what was right and left their kids deeply hurt and confused.  What if you wake up one day and find out most of what you believed is wrong. I'm sure you are strong enough to put Humpty back together again perfectly.

Please draw us a line in the sand so we know what is good and what is not.  Meanwhile, just continue casting stones at everyone and everything, whether they genuinely tried or were a total tool. It's just so easy when you know you are always right.

I am very glad that you are out of extreme Fundamentalism and no longer fund Richard Wheeler.  Recovery is incredibly hard and takes a very long time.   I wish you well.

But Wheeler's ideas, and those of people like him, contributed to the damage you undoubtedly suffered in your upbringing and time in Fundamentalism.  

If you read more widely here on FJ you may see that I am usually very sympathetic, if not frequently empathetic, to victims and survivors and their plights.  But you have no idea what my background is, do you?  

I am far from perfect and don't have all the answers at all.  I am, however, confident that I can recognise, and I will call out, what I see as false and dangerous religious teachings when I see them.  And the people who promulgate them.

I'm very sorry you are so offended by my "casting stones" at Richard Wheeler and his ilk.  But this is what we do on Free Jinger.  We call attention to dangerous ideas.  We are not a support group for survivors nor are we a "safe place" for them, although most of us try to be kind and supportive.  We are a free-wheeling free-speech community, dedicated to discussing the flaws of extreme fundamentalist beliefs.  We are often very blunt and I'm afraid I am not going to be the only person who will deeply offend you.

Perhaps you should re-read the FAQ.  This one is relevant.

https://www.freejinger.org/faq/#elCollection-5

Quote

What you call gossip, we call keeping our eyes on a dangerous religious movement. We believe that criticism, snark and laughter is the best way to call attention to some serious problems such as child abuse, rape, oppression of women, loss of rights, and the groups who perpetrate these things. We are shining a light, because it burns away the darkness.

Keep your flame lit, and you will never feel darkness. ~J. Parker

 

Edited June 8, 2019 by Palimpsest

[hoipolloi]

4 hours ago, AnnaSofia said:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152835371944821&set=a.432402329820&type=3

Click the comments for the photo and you'll see the "husband", Gene K Freshour.

And here's an update from about a week ago:

[Palimpsest]

46 minutes ago, hoipolloi said:

And here's an update from about a week ago:

Oy.  Just oy.  Other words fail me.

[hoipolloi]

3 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

Oy.  Just oy.  Other words fail me.

IIRC, there was a third "wife" at the time Aimee "married" Gene Freshour but that woman appears to have left.

[DomWackTroll]

Quote

"Glasses is the 20 years of marriage."

And they say romance is dead. "Hey, Glasses, make me another sandwich, will ya?" 

[Kylolo]

Clicking on “Amanda Freshour” in his comment takes you to Facebook page of Amanda Marschall Carter who lives in Campbellsville KY. Is that the same Amanda? Do they live in my state?

On 6/8/2019 at 1:42 PM, AnnaSofia said:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152835371944821&set=a.432402329820&type=3

Click the comments for the photo and you'll see the "husband", Gene K Freshour.

 

[Maxwell]

Hey!!!  Great news!!!!!

!!!!The new and improved Cinema of Wonder is up!!!!

And boy, is it ever exciting!

It's the same site.  The only notable change is the contact page.  DPIART finally dropped the listing of email(s) at the domain that he doesn't own... and there's a new address:

 

99 Wall Street #1239,

New York NY 10005

 

Which turns out is a mail forwarding service.  You rent a suite number and they forward all mail address to the suite to whatever address you want.  See here:

https://physicaladdress.com/new-york-mailing-address/

ETA:  They don't forward the physical mail, they scan it, email you the scan, and shred the content.  Looks like you get 30 envelope scans for $20/mo.  Additional scans are $0.20/envelope.  

Edited June 10, 2019 by Maxwell
Clarification

[MamaJunebug]

On 6/7/2019 at 12:54 AM, ophelia said:

Trump and a Phillips daughter in the same picture might be more than I can handle before my second cup of Espresso.

How preternaturally shrewd of her to wear a bright yellow jacket in a photo-op crowd. Doug took a nanosecond to grin with pride at someone other than himself. 

[kpmom]

On 6/7/2019 at 5:37 PM, dripcurl said:

I am assuming that is a glaring typo, but it would actually be funny if Trump and Bert both had on yellow jackets.

I saw that too and laughed.

Yellow might clash with his orange skin, so probably not.

[VVV]

9 hours ago, kpmom said:

I saw that too and laughed.

Yellow might clash with his orange skin, so probably not.

On the other hand, it would blend right in with the yellow stripe down his back.

[sableduck]

I sometime wonder what dougie thinks about it all.  So many of his followers, even his own children, have moved on from the original teachings.  He probably doesn’t care; I don’t think he ever really believed it all anyway.

Jasmine Bachman Holmes posted a bunch of instastories today discussing why the reading of Titus 2 that women MUST stay home is wrong from a textual and historical standpoint.  All I could think of is how much the tide has turned. I know young woman who idolized Jasmine as well as the Botkin girls and who are now mostly in their 30s with six or seven children, uneducated and barely making it on their husband’s income.   Homeschooling isn’t as fun as they imagined it would be, they keep having babies(though there is a strong move towards birth control is the circles I’m still familiar with) and I’ve heard more than one wish they had the education to work part time and supplement their income.

I’m just musing tonight, but I grew up in the homeschool world filled with people associated with Gothard and Vision forum, and it just makes me sad to see the inevitable results.

[Howl]

23 minutes ago, sableduck said:

Jasmine Bachman Holmes posted a bunch of instastories today discussing why the reading of Titus 2 that women MUST stay home is wrong from a textual and historical standpoint.

Didn't Jasmine marry Voddy's understudy, meaning it's likely her husband is straying from the true word as well? 

I think she also has at least some education and taught at a Christian school until she had her baby.  I don't follow her -- does she have more than one child? 

Yes, these uneducated women who married young & left the number of kids up to God (in reality, their husband sexual demands) have been betrayed in every way I can think of.  As the number of kids increase, the options narrow, and if hubs is a loser, they are in an even worse situation. 

And if these women have difficult pregnancies and/or post-partum depression.....

Edited June 13, 2019 by Howl

[sableduck]

Jasmine earned at least a bachelor’s degree, possibly a master’s.  She teaches humanities and Latin at a classical Christian school, I believe. I follow her because she’s the only one who has broken free and is willing to talk about some of it.  I respect that she doesn’t want to talk about everything and admits to being embarrassed about her book and former beliefs.

https://jasminelholmes.com/regrets-of-staying-home/

This is an interesting blog post she wrote. The old Doug would have been scandalized and made sure the whole Bachman family was shunned.  Now I suppose he’s finding the burlesque dancers  far more interesting.

[ophelia]

I really enjoy following Jasmine on IG. She has two little boys and IIRC she already started working again. 

[hoipolloi]

Hadn't realized that Jasmine's IG was public again. 

I also give her credit for breaking free of a lot the patriarchal bullshit. 

[teachergirl]

Yes and GASP, her children go to daycare...I laugh when Aunt Lori posts things about Voddie Bacham not realizing his daughter has basically left patriarchy behind.