Counting On Season 8/9/10 3: Another Wedding, Another Ms. Renee Dress

[CarrotCake]

On 3/13/2019 at 8:54 PM, HideousGreenShirt said:

hope the next Duggar bride follows Jessa and Carlin Bates and goes to a non-associated store. Not sure if Jill should be included here because of the terrible modestrosity alterations - can't remember if the store was responsible. 

I give Lauren some credits here as well, after already 3 Mizz Reneeee brides she went her own way.

And got a much better altered dress in the process.

[metheglyn]

11 hours ago, backyard sylph said:

And so I guess Justin is learning to drive in a crowd? Probably that's good for learning to tune out chaos. But gosh he does not look 16 to me.  

That was Jackson, not Justin.  So he was only 14 and maybe 6 months when that was filmed? (BD: May 23, 2004).

Arkansas' one of the states that allow 14 year-olds to get learners' permits. It generally started as a rural thing, where younger teenagers might have to drive to school long distances from family farms, including taking family members with them. 

I just looked up which states allow 14 year-olds to drive and confirmed that it's basically predominantly largely rural states. 14: Alaska, Arkansas, Iowa, Kansas, South Dakota, and Wyoming. 14 and 6 months: Idaho, Montana, and North Dakota. 14 and 8 months: Michigan. 24 states issue learners' permits at 15, while 8 do so at 15 and 6 months. Only 8 (plus DC) require kids to be 16.

[front hugs > duggs]

I know NJ is one of the strictest states in terms of driver's licenses because we are the most densely populated state. Permit after 16 and only after having driven six hours with a certified driving instructor and completed driver's ed and taken the written and vision test. You must have your permit for at least 6 months before getting your restricted driver's license, which you have to be 17 to get, and pass a "road test". This restricted license allows you to drive only between the hours 5am and 11pm and you are only allowed to drive ONE other person in your car at a time. You may not get a full, unrestricted license until you turn 18, but you also have to wait until you've had your restricted license for a full year.

[Jana814]

2 hours ago, front hugs > duggs said:

I know NJ is one of the strictest states in terms of driver's licenses because we are the most densely populated state. Permit after 16 and only after having driven six hours with a certified driving instructor and completed driver's ed and taken the written and vision test. You must have your permit for at least 6 months before getting your restricted driver's license, which you have to be 17 to get, and pass a "road test". This restricted license allows you to drive only between the hours 5am and 11pm and you are only allowed to drive ONE other person in your car at a time. You may not get a full, unrestricted license until you turn 18, but you also have to wait until you've had your restricted license for a full year.

I’m in New Jersey, & yes we do have those rules. They have changed since I was 17 because I was allowed to drive more then 1 person in my car when I was 17. 

[Satan'sFortress]

I love our driver laws in Delaware.  My 16 year old had to take drivers' ed (provided free to all public school sophomores!) and then log 50 hours of supervised driving.  After they get their license, the restrictions are similar to NJ as described above.

When I got my license more than 30 years ago, we had driver's ed, passed a written and driving test and that was it.  My son has had SO MUCH more driving experience than I did when got my license. 

[feministxtian]

4 hours ago, Satan'sFortress said:

When I got my license more than 30 years ago, we had driver's ed, passed a written and driving test and that was it.  My son has had SO MUCH more driving experience than I did when got my license. 

Back in the dark ages in VA, you could get your permit at 15 and 8 months. You had to complete a classroom driver's ed program (one semester of "health/pe" in 10th grade), a 2 week "behind the wheel", a written test (to get your permit) and then the actual driving test at 16. My driving "test" was backing out of a parking space, turn right, turn right, turn right, park again at the DMV and then get my license. No restrictions of how many people could be in the car...none of that shit. 

[CarrotCake]

I am always amazed how easy it is to get your license in the US. I know that in most areas it is much easier to drive than it is here in Europe but still.

We have to take extensive lessons on the road from a certified instructor. After that you need to take a theory exam as well  as a road exam. In general, this whole process will cost you around €2000,-.

You used to not be able to start lessons before you were 18. Now you can take lessons at 17 and get your license at 18.

I am not sure about other European countries but as far as I know they are not that much easier.

[nastyhobbitses]

6 minutes ago, CarrotCake said:

I am always amazed how easy it is to get your license in the US. I know that in most areas it is much easier to drive than it is here in Europe but still.

We have to take extensive lessons on the road from a certified instructor. After that you need to take a theory exam as well  as a road exam. In general, this whole process will cost you around €2000,-.

You used to not be able to start lessons before you were 18. Now you can take lessons at 17 and get your license at 18.

I am not sure about other European countries but as far as I know they are not that much easier.

In most of the US, if you don't have a car, you're pretty much SOL for going anywhere. Being able to drive is a necessity for basic independence in most of the country, so it makes much more sense to have kids learn to drive earlier. Parts of Europe can be like that, for sure (especially more rural areas), but on the whole, I've noticed that you don't really need a car in most places, and that even rural towns (where you need a car to get out to go to other places unless you like waiting for a bus that only comes like once a day) are much more pedestrian and bike-friendly, which means that teens don't need to drive to get to school/sports, run errands for the family, or go out to have fun, whereas growing up in a very car-heavy suburb in the US, I would have been basically housebound/dependent on my parents and friends for rides without my driver's license. 

[DillyDally]

My thoughts on the last episode: 25 days till the wedding and you don't have a dress yet? Who are they kidding? And Abby doesn't have time to pick one or two bridesmaids to go look for dresses somewhere local?? Makes perfect sense to have around 10 people prepare a "pop up wedding shop" (2 days work!) and have Ms Renee and her assistant fly in with only a couple of dresses (which also had to be steamironed after dragging them to Arkansas) instead. NOT.

Sorry, but that storyline is bullsh*t. Also, why did Ms Renee bring a pink gown when Abbie already said John prefered a white dress? And having a custom gown made in under 25 days (Ms Renee said they can match any top and skirt) seems a bit unrealistic, too. But that woman is really bending over backwards for her Duggar brides. ?

[Peaches-n-Beans]

5 hours ago, feministxtian said:

Back in the dark ages in VA, you could get your permit at 15 and 8 months. You had to complete a classroom driver's ed program (one semester of "health/pe" in 10th grade), a 2 week "behind the wheel", a written test (to get your permit) and then the actual driving test at 16. My driving "test" was backing out of a parking space, turn right, turn right, turn right, park again at the DMV and then get my license. No restrictions of how many people could be in the car...none of that shit. 

That is not the VA I remember! I lived there for 6 years (ages 8-11 and 14-17) and by the time i was learning to drive because of how my birthday fell (June) it was not possible for me to learn to drive in my county until right before we were moving and then with the overseas move it just wasn't doable 

[backyard sylph]

22 hours ago, metheglyn said:

That was Jackson, not Justin.  So he was only 14 and maybe 6 months when that was filmed? (BD: May 23, 2004).

Arkansas' one of the states that allow 14 year-olds to get learners' permits. It generally started as a rural thing, where younger teenagers might have to drive to school long distances from family farms, including taking family members with them. 

I just looked up which states allow 14 year-olds to drive and confirmed that it's basically predominantly largely rural states. 14: Alaska, Arkansas, Iowa, Kansas, South Dakota, and Wyoming. 14 and 6 months: Idaho, Montana, and North Dakota. 14 and 8 months: Michigan. 24 states issue learners' permits at 15, while 8 do so at 15 and 6 months. Only 8 (plus DC) require kids to be 16.

Whoever it was, it just struck me as a small young person. He looked excited and happy, however. I have no concerns about whatever the law dictates in his state, merely noting relative youth. 

My boys are tall and two of them hit puberty very early, had to think back to late 70s to boys I knew in school who took rather longer at it, though they all got there in the end. 

As to our laws compared to "European" ones, they're different in each state not only because of rural needs, which are important, but also because different regions have different varying populaces and developed at different periods of time. People from other continents will find this is true of quite a lot of what we do. You can rarely extrapolate "what America does" by what one state or region does. 

[SorenaJ]

9 hours ago, nastyhobbitses said:

In most of the US, if you don't have a car, you're pretty much SOL for going anywhere. Being able to drive is a necessity for basic independence in most of the country, so it makes much more sense to have kids learn to drive earlier. Parts of Europe can be like that, for sure (especially more rural areas), but on the whole, I've noticed that you don't really need a car in most places, and that even rural towns (where you need a car to get out to go to other places unless you like waiting for a bus that only comes like once a day) are much more pedestrian and bike-friendly, which means that teens don't need to drive to get to school/sports, run errands for the family, or go out to have fun, whereas growing up in a very car-heavy suburb in the US, I would have been basically housebound/dependent on my parents and friends for rides without my driver's license. 

Do teens in the US have their own car? 

[singsingsing]

16 minutes ago, SorenaJ said:

Do teens in the US have their own car? 

Some do. Most do not.

[Bad Wolf]

19 minutes ago, SorenaJ said:

Do teens in the US have their own car? 

I think it depends on where they live and how much after school stuff they do. Also, many teens work and go to school, so they buy their own cars.

[nastyhobbitses]

17 minutes ago, SorenaJ said:

Do teens in the US have their own car? 

Some do, but most don't. I borrowed my parents' car when it was available for my use during high school (I had to take the bus to and from school because my mom needed to have the car during the day), and then when I went to college, my parents bought another car and allowed me to take the old one (with the expectation that I would maintain it properly and not do anything stupid). Had I not moved abroad right after graduating (so I had no need for a car), I probably would have ended up helping them sell the car (if I were moving to New York where a car is impractical), or used my savings to buy it off of them and spruce it up a bit. Some kids save up to buy their own cars, others are gifted new/used cars by their parents, and, as you've seen in my case, some kids basically "borrow" cars from their parents. 

[MoonFace]

On 3/14/2019 at 6:04 PM, FluffySnowball said:

Michelle’s shoes are monstrous - along with their attempts to control women’s bodies. 

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bu-DpBuH-cV/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=l4f1egd1wftg

There comes a time in life when you don't care how they look as long as they feel good. 

[freethemall]

33 minutes ago, SorenaJ said:

Do teens in the US have their own car? 

I think it depends where you live - in the city there's kids who dont even get their drivers licenses (I have a friend from DC who only got a license at 30), while in suburbs and rural areas many people do because you rely on them when there's no public transit. In my semi-rural area, pretty much every single person had their own car, usually handed down from parents. There were wealthy kids too who got new cars for their sweet 16.

[nausicaa]

10 hours ago, CarrotCake said:

I am always amazed how easy it is to get your license in the US. I know that in most areas it is much easier to drive than it is here in Europe but still.

We have to take extensive lessons on the road from a certified instructor. After that you need to take a theory exam as well  as a road exam. In general, this whole process will cost you around €2000.

As an American who understands how car-dependent we are, I get why we have a lower driving age. At the same time, I think it's weird that we let kids get behind the wheel of a two ton weapon that is statistically deadlier than a machine gun with so little training. We don't let 16 year olds drink, smoke, or vote, after all.

I do admire the more rigorous driver's education system that most of Europe has. I do know some states, including mine, have attempted to make the written and driving tests more thorough in recent years.

[lizzybee]

Car insurance companies have financial incentives for those who make an effort to take defensive driving classes and driving lessons as well. I did some extra things as a teen to qualify for those incentives because it saved my family some money insuring me as a driver. 

[Satan'sFortress]

We are adding my teen son to our insurance soon---we'll get a discount for him having taken drivers' ed, and also if he takes an online course (he will)--and also for his good grades.  Not sure how good grades correlate to good driving, though, honestly.  Anecdotally, I had terrific grades and was a terrible driver in high school.

 

My older son never wanted to drive.  He lives in DC now, so doesn't need a license because of the excellent public transit system. He will be quite handicapped, however, if he ever leaves to city for anywhere that doesn't have good public transit.  Wish I had insisted he get the license. 

[mpheels]

3 hours ago, Satan'sFortress said:

We are adding my teen son to our insurance soon---we'll get a discount for him having taken drivers' ed, and also if he takes an online course (he will)--and also for his good grades.  Not sure how good grades correlate to good driving, though, honestly.  Anecdotally, I had terrific grades and was a terrible driver in high school.

 

My older son never wanted to drive.  He lives in DC now, so doesn't need a license because of the excellent public transit system. He will be quite handicapped, however, if he ever leaves to city for anywhere that doesn't have good public transit.  Wish I had insisted he get the license. 

The line of reasoning for good grades and insurance premiums is good grades = generally responsible, and kids who are generally responsible don’t do overtly reckless things. I know there are exceptions to that logic - I went to school with a lot of them - but insurance companies set rates based on actuarial tables, and good grades are correlated with lower risk of a car crash.

[SorenaJ]

7 hours ago, mpheels said:

The line of reasoning for good grades and insurance premiums is good grades = generally responsible, and kids who are generally responsible don’t do overtly reckless things. I know there are exceptions to that logic - I went to school with a lot of them - but insurance companies set rates based on actuarial tables, and good grades are correlated with lower risk of a car crash.

Poor dyslexic and dyscalculic kids. 

[feministxtian]

On 3/16/2019 at 2:18 AM, Peaches-n-Beans said:

That is not the VA I remember! I lived there for 6 years (ages 8-11 and 14-17) and by the time i was learning to drive because of how my birthday fell (June) it was not possible for me to learn to drive in my county until right before we were moving and then with the overseas move it just wasn't doable 

this was in 1980

[NakedKnees]

I'm from Los Angeles county and I have to say that my community was all over the spectrum in terms of learning how to drive and getting cars. I would say only about half of us learned how to drive before we were 18. I got my license at 17 but could have at 16; I just wasn't in a rush. 

Of those who did drive, I would say only about 1 in 5 got their own cars before they were 18. The rest just borrowed other family cars as needed, for special occasions and errands and that type of thing. In my memory, those cars were 100% used or hand-me-downs (mine that I still use almost fifteen years later is a hand-me-down). I don't know a single teen who got a car new, and this is an area known for both being car-heavy and with a higher cost of living. That strikes me as an obscenely wealthy "Super Sweet 16" sort of thing, but it's probably different in other parts of the country where houses and gas and what not are more affordable.

Of course this is all anecdotal. I feel like people talk about Los Angeles like you really need a car to get around, and I would rather not live there without a car, but public transit does exist in much of it too. 

Edited March 17, 2019 by NakedKnees
Details

[mpheels]

My mom helped be buy a used car when I was 16 - I scraped together $2000 from babysitting and birthday money, and she matched it dollar for dollar. I bought a 1992 Honda Civic for $4000 (in 1999) and I was then responsible for gas and maintenance. My mom paid for insurance, registration, and property tax. At that point, she and my stepdad both had 60 minute commutes, each way. It was a huge logistic help for me to be able to drive independently, so I could run errands for her, plus I was able to take on more regular babysitting work.

At my suburban high school in North Carolina, it was pretty typical to get a car by 11th or 12th grade. The school transportation and cafeteria systems could only manage the work load because 1/2 the student body drove to school or rode with a classmate, and nearly all 11th and 12th graders left campus for lunch (we weren’t allowed to walk to lunch, could only drive/ride and had to show a “lunch pass” to a security guard when leaving/returning). Students’ cars covered the full spectrum from used beaters to brand new BMWs, reflecting the economic diversity of the student body.