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Howl

College Admissions Scandal: Felicity Huffman Arrested!

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Unimpressed
AliceInFundyland

So sad. Olivia Jade’s parents could have set up like an annual donation in her Name to the charity or something. Hell, they could have donated to all three charities. Meanwhile, this other girl genuinely appears to feel bad that she didn’t get the money for the Red Cross.

So. Fucked. Up. 

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Glasgowghirl

After I had went back to college to get some of the qualifications I didn't get in the last two years of school. I applied to a few colleges and a university to get onto a Social Sciences course I wanted to and I was panicking when no one was getting back to me and was thinking what a waste of two years if no one is willing to accept me. Eventually University of West of Scotland got back to me with an offer.

When I heard about this scandal and how Olivia Jade in particular was acting like college was just one big party and bragging about how she probably won't go to many classes. I couldn't help think about how I felt waiting to hear back from places and how pissed I'd be if I hadn't gotten into my course and someone who did got in had bribed their way in and was acting like it was one big joke. I have seen people defend them, they all committed fraud and cheated people that deserved a place out of one. They didn't do their children any favours either, some of the kids in question are now getting threats and are worried for their safety, I do believe most of the them knew what was happening but we don't need these young people being targeted either.

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AmazonGrace

 OJ is proud of her daddy's history of cheating his parents. So this is all on brand. Screenshot_20190316-082536.thumb.jpg.df571362a7bc690002d0a404d51bd3cb.jpg 

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Meh
Dandruff

It's possible that some of these kids could have gotten into their colleges without the alleged criminal behavior - their parents just happened to have enough discretionary income and motivation to make sure they got in.  I'd pity a kid if she or he either wasn't complicit or was complicit under duress (not that we'd know).

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AmazonGrace

Did the kids sign an application with false information on it? Those  would be totally complicit in my book, unless Mommy and Poppy took it to mail it and forged the false data in it without their knowledge.

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Glasgowghirl
3 hours ago, AmazonGrace said:

Did the kids sign an application with false information on it? Those  would be totally complicit in my book, unless Mommy and Poppy took it to mail it and forged the false data in it without their knowledge.

I think in most cases they knew their parents lied to some extent and they do have to take some of the responsibility for it, they are old enough to know that it's wrong, even if they didn't realise it was illegal they must have known it was cheating. I still hold the parents more accountable but all the students who got in to college under false pretences and are still students need to face some sort of punishment too.

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Meh
Dandruff
9 hours ago, AmazonGrace said:

Did the kids sign an application with false information on it? Those  would be totally complicit in my book, unless Mommy and Poppy took it to mail it and forged the false data in it without their knowledge.

Or the kid filled out some of it, the parents said they needed to fill out some of it, and then (to protect the kids) said just sign here.

I'm not suggesting it's likely, but I think it's possible in some cases where the kid wasn't applying for a scholarship in a sport she or he wasn't skilled in.  If the kid was expected to show up at school and join a team in a sport they didn't play, then I don't see how they couldn't be complicit.

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AmazonGrace

I hope the kids know because if they don't, they face  expulsion from school and personal shame for being known as a cheater even if they were unaware, and the shock of finding out that mom and dad a) are cheaters and b) might go to jail and c) think you're stupid. 

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VelociRapture
1 hour ago, AmazonGrace said:

I hope the kids know because if they don't, they face  expulsion from school and personal shame for being known as a cheater even if they were unaware, and the shock of finding out that mom and dad a) are cheaters and b) might go to jail and c) think you're stupid. 

You know it’s a shit situation when you aren’t sure what’s worse - the students being willingly complicit and deserving the public ridicule or the students being caught completely unaware by everything.

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thoughtful
21 hours ago, FullOfGravy said:

I'm admittedly pretty early in my teaching career, but I continue to be amazed by how much work some students will put into avoiding work.  If they put half as much time and effort into learning the course material, they'd be top of the class.

I've been teaching for over 40 years, and it still amazes me. And I am a procrastinator by nature!

I made an anti-procrastination chart for my students. It has worked pretty well for younger kids who just hadn't thought it through, and went into whiny, sneaky or limp rag mode from habit, lack of confidence or thinking that they can actually avoid work indefinitely. It has also worked with those who hate being told what to do and want to control their own schedule, since it points out that they have more free time to be left alone and in control of their actions if they get must-do tasks out of the way quickly. Sometimes the logic sinks in.

At this point, I discuss it with all, not just those already having problems being responsible. Some have needed a refresher reminder, and a few still fall back into avoidance habits. But I keep trying!

 

Spoiler

image.png.6f1ea5f5c2aa744dfb289557a0f54d01.png

 

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DangerNoodle

Some students were cheating by getting extra time on the test. This is something that is given to students with particular disorders. The students knew they didn't have those conditions but were still give an extra time. I would say they should be held accountable for that. 

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Tired
Gobbles
21 minutes ago, DangerNoodle said:

Some students were cheating by getting extra time on the test. This is something that is given to students with particular disorders. The students knew they didn't have those conditions but were still give an extra time. I would say they should be held accountable for that. 

The horrible thing is that actual students who get extra time are maybe questioned or people think that they are cheaters. I got extra time (and other stuff) due to my autism. Hard enough to get people to understand why that is okay without such a scandal... It gives us equal terms, not an advantage. Of course for someone normal it is exactly that, an advantage. :angry-steamingears:

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Jinder Roles

Going back to legacy admissions: the practice officially  arose in the 1920s after colleges raised their standards and wealthy Anglo-Saxon rate at elite colleges dropped. Several Ivy Leagues then put in place legacy admissions to help keep immigrants, Jews and poorer people out of their schools (and subsequently hinder chances for upward social mobility). 

We focused on Loughlin and Huffman, but a significant person charged in this scandal is Bill McGlashan. He is founder and Partner of TPG Growth; one of largest equity firms in the world. They manage $13.2 billion in assets a cross several industries. He’s also director of several companies  like ELF cosmetics and XOJET. His job was to help lift up disadvantaged people, yet he was heavily involved in this cheating scheme. 

Here’s a clip (start at 2:50, I couldn’t find a shorter video) of it being discussed on MSNBC

 

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Hisey
On 3/16/2019 at 1:39 AM, AmazonGrace said:

Did the kids sign an application with false information on it? Those  would be totally complicit in my book, unless Mommy and Poppy took it to mail it and forged the false data in it without their knowledge.

My kid applied to college last year (and she earned all of her own test scores). There is nothing to sign. It's all done electronically. It's possible Lori Loughlin took over the whole process for her daughter, or had that crooked slimebag do it. In other words, it can be done without Olivia doing a single thing. "Honey, you are so busy with your instagram, Dad and I will fill out your application to USC."

If you read the complaint, the company tried to get real pictures of the kids in a boat, or on the softball field, or pretending to swim in a meet. However, if that was not possible, they just photoshopped a kids' face onto a picture.

I think Olivia had a good idea of what her parent's did. But, technically, it's entirely possible to have done the thing without her knowledge. In fact, if you read the complaint, most of the parents' quoted were trying real hard to make sure their kids did not know.

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SPHASH
11 hours ago, Jinder Roles said:

Going back to legacy admissions: the practice officially  arose in the 1920s after colleges raised their standards and wealthy Anglo-Saxon rate at elite colleges dropped. Several Ivy Leagues then put in place legacy admissions to help keep immigrants, Jews and poorer people out of their schools (and subsequently hinder chances for upward social mobility). 

 

 

Goes back even farther than that.  Abraham Lincoln's son Robert got into Harvard while his father was POTUS even though he flunked the entrance exam and had to spend an extra year of high school to get his grades up.

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Hisey
On 3/14/2019 at 5:21 AM, VelociRapture said:

The only students I could possibly see giving a bit of leeway to are the ones who had parents that paid to have test scores altered after they took the exams - that’s the only real situation I could see where the students genuinely may not have known something was going on. 

Actually, it's likely some of them were suspicious. The criminals "owned" two testing locations--I think one was in TX and one was in LA. That's where you had to take the tests if you wanted them "corrected" or re-taken by their expert test taker. So families living in CT or NY had to fly their kids to these locations to be tested (because the proctors had been bribed there, etc). Parents were told to tell suspicious counselors or admissions officers that they had been attending a wedding or bar mitzvah in that city.

But what did they tell their kids? Their 17-year old must have thought it strange to fly to LA to take an exam. Even if mom and dad flew places regularly, it's still strange to take your SAT while visiting another city.

On one occasion, a child got ill and could not fly to LA. The test-taker took the test for him anyway. However, the parent was concerned, because the child would think it was strange that he got an ACT score when he'd never take the ACT. So the criminals sent the parent an ACT exam (just a practice test they'd gotten from somewhere), and the parents gave the kid the test at home (and the kid thought this was somehow permissible). 

On 3/14/2019 at 9:48 PM, AliceInFundyland said:

Yet with all that knowledge, wisdom, age and maturity - you can’t keep a consistent internet persona

::confusion-shrug:

LOL, I guess I sound pretty snooty! Let me clarify.  I just attended a few undergrad classes and was not part of a degree program, I do not have an Ivy degree. This was possible (back in the 80s). Schools (elite and less elite) were happy to get extra money by allowing a few extra people into their classes.

I did it because their schedules were convenient for me. I actually am not enamored with the Ivy League. I used to be as impressed as anyone by the "big name" schools, but things have changed. I've seen too many kids graduate with a fancy degree and do poorly. I also see (after touring schools for my daughter) that often large state university offer better programs and more resources. Honestly, that was a surprise to me.

I really think Lori Loughlin and those other parents were chasing a false god. All of this, just to be able to brag to your friends? Whether or not they go to prison, they've lost the trust of their kids.

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Petronella
On 3/15/2019 at 2:40 PM, Screamapillar said:

I used to occasionally watch KUWTK years ago and remember a scene where Kris took then early teenaged Kendall and Kylie out for ice cream and one of the girls was crying about how she "felt stupid" because she missed so much school for work (photo shoots, branding, etc) that she couldn't keep up with the curriculum. Kris sat there attempting a sympathetic look and was like, ok we'll make sure you get to be in school more, but it was pretty obvious that she knew that school would not be how her daughters made their money. Say what you will about Momager Kris, but she at least knew how to play to her children's strengths.

That's heartbreaking to me. Fine, not everyone needs to go to college, but it sounds like this was when they were young and still in school. Everyone deserves a decent education. Deciding that those girls didn't need to be educated because they were going to support themselves with fame when they're adults is as bad as the fundies who decide their daughters don't need an education because they're going to be supported by husbands when they're adults. Education is about much more than just "how will I make money someday?"

On 3/15/2019 at 3:03 PM, nausicaa said:

And apparently couldn't do the simple Google search to see that "Ivy" is capitalized and pluralized as "Ivies" not "Ivys."

What's going on? Why are people dogpiling? Did something happen in another thread? Because what she said here seems fine to me. I don't get the hate.

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WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?
31 minutes ago, Petronella said:

That's heartbreaking to me. Fine, not everyone needs to go to college, but it sounds like this was when they were young and still in school. Everyone deserves a decent education. Deciding that those girls didn't need to be educated because they were going to support themselves with fame when they're adults is as bad as the fundies who decide their daughters don't need an education because they're going to be supported by husbands when they're adults. Education is about much more than just "how will I make money someday?"

IIRC, Kendall and Kylie were asking for a tutor or a different way of going to high school so that they could keep up, and their mom wanted them to stay in their regular (likely private) high school and keep up on their own despite all the class time they missed. Being "characters" on a "reality" show, the girls hired a tutor behind their mom's back, and then let her know about it after the fact. How much of that was real and how much of it was a plotline for their show, who knows? (And why, in Rufus' blessed name do I have this dren taking up space in my brain? Sheesh! :pb_wink: )

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VelociRapture
3 hours ago, Petronella said:

What's going on? Why are people dogpiling? Did something happen in another thread? Because what she said here seems fine to me. I don't get the hate.

She’s a long suspected troll and people are sick of her crap. That’s what’s going on. :) 

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nausicaa
3 hours ago, Petronella said:

What's going on? Why are people dogpiling? Did something happen in another thread? Because what she said here seems fine to me. I don't get the hate.

She constantly shit stirs in the Bates threads, oscillating between making fun of the women's hair and appearance (and insinuating they are bad mothers because they wear high heels or white dresses) and then acting like a martyr. It's so transparent that if one of her comments doesn't get a reaction, she will quote herself a few hours later ratcheting it up.

And trolling aside, I seriously doubt she studied at "several Ivys." And misspelling it is a pretty big indicator it's a lie. If she didn't have the trolling history she has, I probably wouldn't have called it out. But I still would have known it was bullshit.

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Petronella

Ah, okay, so there is some carryover from other threads. Thanks for clarifying.

Generally I've always found Hisey's input good but I don't hang out in the Bates threads.

As for what she said here, I could certainly see certain courses being similarly challenging at universities of varying poshness. For example, one of my brothers transferred from a private university to a cheaper, less "name brand" university to save money, and he said it was the same content, the same textbooks and teaching, he could just pay less tuition and live at home. That wouldn't be true across the board but it could certainly be true some places, some subjects, for some students.

In my experience, a university's high entrance standards can be useful not because the teaching/content is harder (which may or may not be the case), but because the students you get to work with will be at a higher standard, even if the content and exams are the same. That was the big selling point to me for my undergraduate university choice, which was in a subject that requires a lot of working together.

It's all really subject/college/student dependent, and what Hisey said here, as one genuine experience and point of view, sounded reasonable to me. (And the opposite experience, of harder-to-get-into colleges having more rigorous courses than others, is also true, and likely more common.)

Yeah, I guess "several" ivy league classes seems unlikely, but a lot of my life is unlikely too. I have a deep fear of being labelled a troll for writing something that doesn't sound "real" to some people!

Edited by Petronella

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Alisamer

I think Olivia Jade in particular must be pretty pissed at her parents. She made it perfectly clear she had no desire to go to college, even pointing out how dad faked out his own parents about college. She says they "forced" her to go. And now because of this she has lost at least two lucrative corporate partnerships, endangering the business she was building. Yeah, she's shallow and vacuous and all that, but she found something she could do well at and was working to build a business out of it, successfully. Then all this. She will be fine, of course, they are wealthy. But wow would I be pissed if I were her. Her parents thought what she was doing was a waste of time, forced her to go to college, and cheated and lied to do it implying they thought she was too dumb to do it on her own.

Olivia Jade seems like someone I would not want to watch, or follow on instagram, or deal with in real life. But it's pretty shitty that she was forced to do something she didn't want to do, for no other reason than because her parents wanted the status of being able to say she attended USC.

 I get wanting your kids to have a good education, but these parents are pretty terrible for going about it this way. Work with your kid's strengths. If they're too dumb for an elite college, find another way for them to make a living. Help them do what they enjoy, and find a way to make money from it. Chances are, if you and your spouse are actors with little to no academic inclinations, your kid is not going to turn out to be an elite astrophysicist or something. And college can happen at any age. They can go later if they want!

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Petronella
15 minutes ago, Alisamer said:

Chances are, if you and your spouse are actors with little to no academic inclinations, your kid is not going to turn out to be an elite astrophysicist or something.

Eh, I'm not fond of pre-defining kids like that. Kids can have very different skills/aspirations from their parents.

The problem here isn't that actors had high educational hopes for their children. The problem is that they spoiled them rotten (Olivia Jade's general take on life is appalling), and that they ignored the kids' actual strengths and interests, and that they forced their fantasy of success onto them.

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TheOneAndOnly

I asked a friend of mine who got a second degree recently if, when he was appyling to colleges, someone had changed his numbers would he have noticed. His answer was something like, 'WTF kind of question is that? OF COURSE I would have noticed!' Granted he's really detail oriented and has worked in and around academia for 20+ years, but I can't help thinking that as a student you'd have to be pretty damn disconnected to not notice something.

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