Chelsy and John Maxwell 7: Not as Beige as Maxhell - Yet

[nelliebelle1197]

27 minutes ago, Ozlsn said:

Have to maybe not, but I think it is helpful to recognise that trauma is trauma even if it's not the same as your story. 

One reason is that you can end up with people getting really competitive over who had the worse experience, which is something that comes up quite a bit in prem groups. Mothers of later prems often feel like they're being told that their experience is less valid because their baby wasn't a microprem, and they only spent a month in NICU or were only in SCN - but they still weren't expecting to give birth early, or leave the hospital without their baby and it was still shocking and traumatic for them too. So I think it's useful to recognise that people can be traumatised, even if you're inwardly rolling your eyes a bit because it looks like such an easy experience compared to yours.

(Mind you I also think it would be helpful for hospitals to separate people who had microprems and who are coming to the end of their hospital stay from people who just had their later prem baby and are in a state of shock at the start of their stay in the special care nursery. Pretty much all the microprem parents I know found that really hard to deal with - not least because the new parents were still learning the hospital rules and bringing in multiple family members, hot drinks etc - and some of it was also due to overcrowding in that area. The newly built hospital is apparently better.)

I just met a lady at the pediatrician with almost the exact same premie situation I had. Except she had twins. One was in NICU for six months. The other is still there 10 months on. I left after three and half with basically a perfect kid with no real issues outside some low frequency hearing loss.  It really puts my micro experience into perspective 

[Ozlsn]

@nelliebelle1197 I'm glad your kid is doing well, and my thoughts go out to the other lady. Juggling twins is hard enough without factoring NICU in as well. I don't know if your NICU had the same mantra as mine, but I use "every baby is different and they all follow their own path" a lot still - it doesn't mean my baby's path wasn't stressful or whatever, just different from everyone else's. Currently I'm using it for toilet training, sigh, and trying not to get jealous of people whose kids self-train in 3 days.

[AuntCloud]

10 hours ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

But should you have to find sympathy? I am not so sure we are obligated in that way. I was lucky in that my hospital kept those babies in another room and sick babies like ours has their own section of the NICU. L’il Nell was the smallest baby by far but not the sickest. Our culture and privilege in the west have led us to fetishize birth almost as much as weddings and other things that should be simple and private. I just hate for you  that you felt like you had muster sympathy in that circumstance ❤️

It was so surreal - I've seen parents sob uncontrollably over their 5-lb, breathing-on-their-own, 34-weekers who would be home in two weeks. I knew I was it it for the long haul, I knew our best case scenario was at least 10 weeks, likely more, if no serious complications or unexpected setbacks pop up. It wasn't my first rodeo as my oldest was born at 30 weeks, small for her age but much healthier than her sister, and I had zero energies to waste on being angry at parents of babies who had the luxury of being over 2 lbs. and breathing on their own. Those moms would tell harrowing tales of their teeny-tiny preemies weighing what it took my daughters two months to get to. The long and the short of it was that it sucked to be me at that point, and nothing others would say or do could have changed that. 

[Caroline]

On 6/12/2019 at 12:00 PM, JermajestyDuggar said:

I may sound off the wall here but I kind of blame documentaries like “The Business of Being Born” and then all the millions of blogs that followed. Anti-hospital birth is just a thing that has gotten a lot of traction in the US since that documentary and blogs  that convince first time moms that the only right way to give birth is at home. They convince them that doctors only think about themselves and not what’s best for moms and babies. It’s similar to the anti vaccine and scary big pharma haters. It’s not just fundies. But a lot of fundies buy into it.

I think it's a question of ignorance and believing what their godly mentors tell them.  They have the same problem with public schools and universities - also places most of them know nothing about.  It must be exhausting to be so afraid and distrustful of ordinary places and ordinary (but unsaved!) people.  Who could be talked into this lifestyle unless they had no choice and were born into it? 

On 6/12/2019 at 12:34 PM, nelliebelle1197 said:

Sorry but as someone who at 26 weeks, had her blood pressure explode to 320/220 and had a urine protein of +15000 then had a 1.8 oz baby ripped from her belly before both of us died, I can't even with this. I know people have different definitions for "trauma" and experiences, but geez, she is damn lucky (as was I) and needs to be more aware of what birth trauma really is, especially considering what Melanie has experienced.

ETA: Rereading with a clearer mind - I do not think she was really acting as if the birth was traumatic. It just seemed like she was more scared and confused than anything.

 

I can't imagine the trauma of what you went through.  A good friend of mine was pregnant with triplets, had a kidney infection, and gave birth at about 23 weeks.  The two girls survived, but were very small and remained in the NICU for three months.  Their brother weighed a little more than his sisters, but had respiratory problems and didn't make it.  I'll never forget hearing from my friend's husband about how his poor wife almost died that day too.  Fortunately the two girls are now young women and have been healthy and fit all their lives.  Giving birth is not for the faint of heart, that's for sure.  (and probably why it's a good thing women have that job

[AliceInFundyland]

On 6/12/2019 at 4:14 PM, sparkles said:

I measure all birthing stories against that of Sparkling Lauren—she who gave birth on the muddy floor of a tent in a flooded campground full of Rainbow people, without any doctors, midwives, doulas or even a Starbucks barista who could boil water, cut off from any access to help in case of emergency. So compared to that, Chelsy’s birth story sounds like a work of precision planning that could rival the D Day invasion.

 

I was totally thinking about this!

Talk about lack of a backup plan. IIRC, she was begged to get the fuck on up out of there prior to the flooding. But, no.

I miss her. She shouldn't be on the internet, but I sure miss her.

 

[meee]

Oh wow. Okay. I read the birth story. Poor Chelsy. 

The thing is, she never knew any different. If everyone around her is having babies easily by homebirth, why would she think she needs to pack a bag? She'll know better for next time, but I can understand her using the word "trauma" when that was soooo far from what she'd expected/planned for.

I remember her saying she was grateful she didn't need a C-section. Honestly, I'm astonished they didn't send her straight for a C-section after that long in labor with waters broken, especially after the vacuum didn't work. (edit: I just looked at the birth story again. She doesn't give an exact time, but it looks like at least 28 hours or so between water breaking and baby born. I thought they don't let people go more than 24 hours.) I hope Axton is okay/doesn't have any lasting issues from it--and Chelsy, too, I hope that much pushing didn't give her any kind of long-term damage, especially because I assume she'll be pregnant again ASAP.

Edited June 14, 2019 by meee
read birth story again, added one more thought

[Charliemae]

2 hours ago, meee said:

 

I remember her saying she was grateful she didn't need a C-section. Honestly, I'm astonished they didn't send her straight for a C-section after that long in labor with waters broken, especially after the vacuum didn't work. (edit: I just looked at the birth story again. She doesn't give an exact time, but it looks like at least 28 hours or so between water breaking and baby born. I thought they don't let people go more than 24 hours.) I hope Axton is okay/doesn't have any lasting issues from it--and Chelsy, too, I hope that much pushing didn't give her any kind of long-term damage, especially because I assume she'll be pregnant again ASAP.

You can labor safely for much longer than 24 hours after your water breaks*. They usually want you and baby monitored and on iv antibiotics in those cases. Labor doesn't have that kind of set timeline. Water breaking early mostly "just" ups your risk of infection. 

 

*water braking isn't always a big whoosh of water either. I never even knew mine broke with #2 so we had no real timelie, it wasn't a big deal since I was already being admitted. 

[meee]

1 hour ago, Charliemae said:

You can labor safely for much longer than 24 hours after your water breaks*. They usually want you and baby monitored and on iv antibiotics in those cases. Labor doesn't have that kind of set timeline. Water breaking early mostly "just" ups your risk of infection. 

 

*water braking isn't always a big whoosh of water either. I never even knew mine broke with #2 so we had no real timelie, it wasn't a big deal since I was already being admitted. 

Oh. I don't know anything from personal experience, I just feel like I've always heard the 24 hour rule. But she didn't even get to the hospital by then, so I don't know how safe it was.

[bluelady]

I just read her birth story and I feel really bad for her.  My labour with my oldest was eerily similar to hers (except I laboured at the hospital instead of home and had a forceps birth instead of the vacuum).  Hours and hours of labour (22.5 of active labour for me) and hours of pushing (3+) with no real result was disheartening and a forceps birth was physically traumatic as well (I ended up with an episiotomy, and a fourth degree tear that not only tore through my rectum but partially removed my anal sphincter from my body).  It was easily 6+ months before I felt myself physically (at my 6 week post-natal appointment my doc said I was still bruised) and emotionally.  I went into labour with a "what will be will be" attitude and being very open with expectations and it was still traumatic for me.  I can only imagine how she felt having her ideal delivery being so far from what it actually was.

[Black Aliss]

On 6/12/2019 at 4:56 AM, meee said:

I haven't read the birth story yet, but hang on. They are 45 minutes away from a hospital?! That's a horrible idea. I have friends who have had homebirths and they all live within ten minutes of a hospital and wouldn't try a homebirth if they lived any further away. Problems can turn serious in a matter of minutes.

It depends. I had a homebirth for a number of reasons not the least of which was, depending on traffic, I was 45 -90 minutes from the hospital. Given my history of rapid labors a planned hospital birth would have resulted in my giving birth on the shoulder of a busy US highway. Also there was a good spot right outside my apartment for the life flight helicopter to land to transport my baby to the nearest NICU, which was a couple hours away, not at the hospital where I would have gone to give birth. There is a huge difference between giving birth without any trained medical personnel at hand and doing so under the care of a certified nurse-midwife who carries O2, resuscitation equipment, and other emergency gear with her.

WIth that pregnancy my water broke 2 weeks early. The consulting doctor told my midwife that I'd need to go to the hospital if labor didn't begin in 24 hours, so I went for a lot of long walks that morning to get labor started. Going to a Walmart, though, NFW. 

Edited June 15, 2019 by Black Aliss

[PennySycamore]

On 6/14/2019 at 11:30 AM, meee said:

Oh. I don't know anything from personal experience, I just feel like I've always heard the 24 hour rule. But she didn't even get to the hospital by then, so I don't know how safe it was.

Don't feel a bit bad.  The rule used to be to not let labor go for more than 24 hours after the waters break due to the risk of infection or a dry birth.  We know now that there's no real risk of infection and that the placenta is always  producing new amniotic fluid so there is no risk of a dry birth.  If the waters break and they are brownish,  then you panic as it indicates meconium staining and the fetus is at risk of meconium aspiration.  

[Jody]

I have had eight miscarriages so far, with twins the last time (febuary 14 2018). It took me a year and a half to start ivf again and I’ve started treatment last week. My SIL has moaned about her pregnancies and births to everyone and the entire family is shocked when i say she should go and play outside with her big mouth. I can’t sympathise with a c-section and an induced birth when she’s got two healthy babies. Meanwhile, when i didn’t show up to SIL’s babyshower bc i was still grieving from my miscarriage and D&C, I was told to stop overreacting, bc everybody at the party would surely give me a “leg up”. Like I just fell off a horse instead of having my fifth miscarriage. Yeah, my inlaws don’t do compassion/sympathy. 

It took me a long time to feel sympathy for anyone who has a living child, no matter what the circumstances surrounding the birth. But I’m getting there. Trauma will do that to you. 

To all of you with preemies: I’m so sorry and I get the absolute mind-numbing fear that stays with you long after you leave the hospital with your baby.

Chelsy’s story? Girl BYE!

[kpmom]

4 hours ago, Jody said:

 

It took me a long time to feel sympathy for anyone who has a living child, no matter what the circumstances surrounding the birth. But I’m getting there. Trauma will do that to you. 

To all of you with preemies: I’m so sorry and I get the absolute mind-numbing fear that stays with you long after you leave the hospital with your baby.

Chelsy’s story? Girl BYE!

Yes.  I have a loved one who was born with severe disabilities, and is now a severely disabled adult.

It's tough to sympathize with someone's trauma story when they are able to take home a healthy baby who can have a future.

I know one person's trauma is not necessarily another person's trauma, and yes trauma stories can get competitive and all that, but if the final outcome is a healthy baby I imagine the trauma lessens eventually. 

 

 

 

 

[ksuheather]

No idea what hospital they went to but Leavenworth has a hospital that delivers babies - the other one doesn't. Providence is the next nearest facility and depending on the time of day, and traffic it could possibly take 45 min from John and Chelsey's house - maybe.  

[HereticHick]

I haven't given birth and so am not an expert--but not calling the midwives until the contractions are 2-3 minutes apart--and having them arrive AN HOUR later--sounds scary late in the game to me.

Edited June 17, 2019 by HereticHick

[JermajestyDuggar]

I’m thinking the midwife chose the hospital since Chelsy didn’t seem to have a back up plan. The midwife could have chosen that hospital for a number of reasons. Maybe the closer hospitals wouldn’t allow her to attend the birth. Maybe the midwife thought this hospital is better in some way. Maybe it’s a hospital that will not do a c-section right away and we know Chelsy didn’t want a c-section. I don’t know. What I do know is that next time Chelsy will likely have a back up plan and because of that, she may find the birth experience to be much less traumatic. 

Edited June 17, 2019 by JermajestyDuggar

[JermajestyDuggar]

This is posted in Chelsy’s comment section. Rosalind’s post just makes me sad. She just sounds like another fundie broodmare. 

[bluelady]

9 hours ago, HereticHick said:

I haven't given birth and so am not an expert--but not calling the midwives until the contractions are 2-3 minutes apart--and having them arrive AN HOUR later--sounds scary late in the game to me.

I went to the hospital when my contractions were 3 minutes apart.  My son wasn't born for another 23 hours.

[KneeFlasher]

Stories like this are just so disturbing to me as a labor and delivery RN. I am by no means opposed to natural births...some of my closest friends are CNMs and one was a midwife who performed home births in the UK. It is absolutely possible to have a safe, natural hospital birth or birth center delivery with minimal interventions. Our most conservative midwives may require laboring patients to have a saline-locked IV (in case of postpartum hemorrhage, during which it can be extremely difficult to get in a line), and one insists that her patients deliver in the bed, but most are more than willing to work with each mom to give her the best chance for her ideal experience. Low risk moms are encouraged to walk the halls or shower and are monitored intermittently (15 mins per hour). I will never offer a patient pain medicine or an epidural unless she asks me or shares her plan for a medicated birth upfront. This is not to say that all providers are as supportive. A few are known for their ridiculous c section rates, and I wish I could warn patients of this ahead of time. (Choose a CNM!)

While birth is usually a safe, natural process, I could tell you about dozens of times when the outcome would have been very poor for mother and/or baby if they were at home. Cord prolapse, fetal intolerance, etc, are not uncommon, and often would go unnoticed in a home environment. Once the baby’s head is out, we have less than 5 minutes to driver the body before brain damage occurs in a shoulder dystocia. Chelsy’s prolonged pushing and pushing during that 45 minute drive could have led to a tragic outcome, and obviously the baby was quite stressed at the end. I guarantee that an operating room was open and staff was scrubbed in and waiting to perform a cesarean in case that vacuum extraction failed.

I wish the U.S. was more friendly toward safe home birth, but I would never choose one, at least not in my area. The midwives who are willing to perform them here are not as prepared for complications as midwives in other countries. 

[mango_fandango]

Even if I was fairly low risk I still probably wouldn’t want a home birth. Shit can go down fast and I would want to be able to access help ASAP, without having to travel in the back of an ambulance however far it is to a hospital. That’s just me though. Where I live now is about ten minutes from a hospital (incidentally the one I was born in). 

I’m nowhere near having kids but I also feel like I’d be quite relaxed with a birth plan, seeing as I have no idea how my labour would go. Labour isn’t exactly predictable. Again, that’s just me. I can understand why someone would want one. 

[meee]

7 hours ago, KneeFlasher said:

I guarantee that an operating room was open and staff was scrubbed in and waiting to perform a cesarean in case that vacuum extraction failed.

Except vacuum extraction DID fail, and they tried an episiotomy next. At least, if I'm reading her story correctly. Like I said earlier, I'm shocked she didn't get a C-section when the vacuum didn't work.

[JermajestyDuggar]

I had zero interest in a homebirth. I knew I wanted an epidural long before I got pregnant. I don’t do well with pelvic pain. I had  a burst ovarian cyst years ago and I couldn’t take the pain. It was horrendous. After that, I knew I would be getting an epidural. Unfortunately I couldn’t get one with my second birth. I was really upset about that because it was one of the few things I planned. Having him without a bit of pain medication was incredibly painful. But I tried to look at the positives. I was able to get up and walk around not long after I had birthed him. When I had an epidural, I had to wait for the numbing to wear off a bit to get up and walk around. That was probably the only positive, lol.

[ophelia]

I've always dreamed about having a home birth. I don't know exactly why, it is just a feeling that I had ever since I started to imagine having babies one day. I've also always dreamed of having a big family and lots of kids. Now I'm thirty, single, childless and diagnosed with PCOS and feel like I can forget about my dreams, but I try to stay positive.

Back to the home birth - of course I would only go down that road if a) baby and I are healthy throughout the pregnancy, b) midwife agrees that this is a safe option, c) I still live close to a hospital and d) my partner was 100% on board with this.

[elliha]

I would have liked a home birth but my husband would not have been comfortable with that and my first was an induction so for that I couldn't have had one. My son started naturally and he was later born in the hospital too. In July when he was born you cannot get a home birth midwife usually due to many of the staff being on holiday. My hospital does offer it for low risk births but I don't know if I had another one if I would qualify as low risk. My births were relatively uneventful but I had a lot of bleeding both times, more than average. If it is like with my son I think a home birth midwife would have been able to handle it but it would have meant her trying every available to her option. I don't know if they would be allowed one if I would have a third kid due to these bleedings but maybe if I still live where I live now they might say OK, I live less than 10 minutes from a university hospital at the moment.

[adidas]

I wanted a home birth after a traumatic hospital birth. Hubby was onboard (not just onboard but very supportive - he was traumatised too, after seeing what the doctor did to me) but unfortunately we weren’t able to conceive again.