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Chelsy and John Maxwell 7: Not as Beige as Maxhell - Yet


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My husband started school a year early due to his dad being stationed a few years in England.  I think it was terrible for him.

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2 minutes ago, PennySycamore said:

My husband started school a year early due to his dad being stationed a few years in England.  I think it was terrible for him.

I am sorry for your husband's experience. I was skipped a grade in elementary school, so I was a year to a year and a half younger than my classmates. It was terrible for me, too, socially, Academically it didn't solve the problem either, but I was always an A student.  But I see a huge difference between skipping grades and simply following the legal school cutoff when enrolling a child in school. 

To be honest we probably would have done two years of private school to avoid my daughter losing a year had she been born just after midnight instead of just before. But again, a difference of minutes to hours is not the same thing as a difference of a year, at least so it seems to me.

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@VVV, my mom was skipped ahead in school because of her academic performance, and even though she graduated as valedictorian at 16, her middle school years were traumatizing. She was a late bloomer among kids chronologically and developmentally older than she was, and having The Nun From Hell as a teacher made matters worse.

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It's not just the parents who are responsible for the rise in red shirting in Kinder.   I taught kindergarten to a very young class (all turned 5 the summer before) in a low income area.  The standards for academics have been pushed down younger and younger.  Kindergarten isn't fun and games anymore, and a lot of kids are simply not ready.  It was mostly the boys in my class who struggled with fine motor skills and attention span, but it's hard on a lot of 5 year old.  

If I weren't homeschooling right now I would have absolutely held my son (July bday) back a year and had him start when he was 6.  I also knowledge that I have a massive amount of privilege to get to choose to hold him back, or to be able to home school at all.  I'd rather reform kindergarten for everyone, but I have to do something for my own kids in the meantime. 

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4 hours ago, Charliemae said:

It's not just the parents who are responsible for the rise in red shirting in Kinder.   I taught kindergarten to a very young class (all turned 5 the summer before) in a low income area.  The standards for academics have been pushed down younger and younger.  Kindergarten isn't fun and games anymore, and a lot of kids are simply not ready.  It was mostly the boys in my class who struggled with fine motor skills and attention span, but it's hard on a lot of 5 year old.  

If I weren't homeschooling right now I would have absolutely held my son (July bday) back a year and had him start when he was 6.  I also knowledge that I have a massive amount of privilege to get to choose to hold him back, or to be able to home school at all.  I'd rather reform kindergarten for everyone, but I have to do something for my own kids in the meantime. 

I'm right there with you.

My youngest son has an early August birthday, three weeks before the cut off, and my husband and I agreed one more year of pre-school rather than Kindergarten was right for him.  He was small for his age any way and being just slightly older by a few months than some of the other kids was never a problem.

And you're right, Kindergarten is now what First Grade was for we Baby Boomers.  It is academically oriented from day 1.

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Let me chime in, agreeing with @Charliemae and @kpmom just said: Kindergarten nowadays is pushing developmentally inappropriate academic skills on little kids, in the mistaken belief it will help them to “get a head start.” It’s misbegotten wishful thinking. Teachers are frustrated that “experts” (many of whom have never taught) are forcing them to use curricula that don’t work. Kindergarteners are being cheated out of the opportunity to learn social skills and cooperation at the developmentally correct age, which causes them problems later on. 

[/gets off soapbox]

If I were raising a small child nowadays, I’d be less reluctant to resort to red-shirting.

Edited by Hane
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We redshirted my twins and I am so glad. Our cutoff is September 1st, their birthday is August 20th and their due date was November 5th. They are ready to start reading and writing now where some of the kids who are still four or who have just turned five are not ready.  If kindergarten was the same as it was when I was in kindergarten 89-90 I most likely would not have held them back but now kindergarten is what first grade used to be.

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@Quiverfulloftwins, our cutoff date is December 31. My nephew was born on December 29, and my sister redshirted him. It was a good idea: I think he was a bit premature, weighing 5 pounds and change, having very little body fat, and having his lungs monitored. Redshirting is almost always a smart move for preemies.

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7 minutes ago, Jody said:

What is redshirting?

It's a term from college athletics in the US. (And maybe Canada?) I got a definition from here.

Quote

What is Redshirt?

This is a term used in college athletics, including football, which describes a mechanism by which a student-athlete is able to practice with a team and attend classes while not using one of their four years of athletic eligibility. There are other reasons, such as medical issues, for a player to skip an entire year of competition. The term could be used to describe the action of a coach using this mechanism, or to describe or identify the player. For example, a coach may "redshirt," a freshman who is then called a "redshirt freshman," or simply as "a redshirt."

So, in the discussion here, people are using it to mean that a child started kindergarten a year later than they were eligible to start.

(Not to be confused with a redshirt in Star Trek, who is a command/helm officer in Starfleet. Or in TOS, a member of the engineering/communications division. :my_biggrin: )

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How it works in England is that, for kids in my year, your birthday was between 1st September 1994 and 31st August 1995. I’m 1st July, so would have started Reception in September 1999. Except I didn’t. I started in the summer term of 2000, around April or so, and only spent one term in Reception before beginning year 1 in September 2000. I was already able to read though, so no major issues. (I was an early reader). I think, when it comes to delaying a kid, the parent should make the decision themselves based on their kid. Personally I never had any academic problems, but that’s just me and other kids born in the summer may well benefit from the extra year in nursery school. 

The age cutoff date is different in Scotland. In Northern Ireland, the date is 1st July. So, if I’d been born in Northern Ireland, I’d have been the oldest kid in the year! 

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This topic is so interesting. In France where I grew up, public school starts the year you turn 3. The cutoff is December 31st so kids born between September and December start full-time school at 2.5. The only requirement is being potty-trained, which is an incentive to get parents motivated.

Those three years of preschool before first grade really help children learn how to evolve and develop in a collective setting. I was shocked when I started working in low-income American schools that so many 5 year-olds were entering Kindergarten with very delayed motor and language skills. The most common situation was that the parent(s) worked and didn't have money for daycare, so an elderly relative would watch them but without the appropriate stimulation for their age. Most would watch TV all day. We had a little boy who spent the first 3 years of his life essentially in a carseat in front of the TV and could barely speak at 5.

These years of working in public schools and all the research I've come across have made me a huge advocate for free early childhood education, especially in low-income districts. Those years are crucial for brain development and starting public school at 5 or 6 just widens the gap between children from different economic backgrounds.

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1 hour ago, usedbicycle said:

This topic is so interesting. In France where I grew up, public school starts the year you turn 3. The cutoff is December 31st so kids born between September and December start full-time school at 2.5. The only requirement is being potty-trained, which is an incentive to get parents motivated.

Those three years of preschool before first grade really help children learn how to evolve and develop in a collective setting. I was shocked when I started working in low-income American schools that so many 5 year-olds were entering Kindergarten with very delayed motor and language skills. The most common situation was that the parent(s) worked and didn't have money for daycare, so an elderly relative would watch them but without the appropriate stimulation for their age. Most would watch TV all day. We had a little boy who spent the first 3 years of his life essentially in a carseat in front of the TV and could barely speak at 5.

These years of working in public schools and all the research I've come across have made me a huge advocate for free early childhood education, especially in low-income districts. Those years are crucial for brain development and starting public school at 5 or 6 just widens the gap between children from different economic backgrounds.

I agree!  We need (optional) free quality early childhood education for so many reasons.  My school district went to all full day kindergarten a few years ago to start meeting that need.  They also have a head start program so kids can start school a year earlier. 

What is frustrating is that early education get's hit with a lot of legislation and regulations that aren't filtered through early childhood experts.  When Kindergarten was extended from half to full day, they didn't add in any extra rest or snack or play time.  In fact it was implemented the same time the whole district cut the third recess.   

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13 hours ago, WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo? said:

(Not to be confused with a redshirt in Star Trek, who is a command/helm officer in Starfleet. Or in TOS, a member of the engineering/communications division. :my_biggrin: )

And usually the first one to get snuffed by the villain/monster of the week. 

Edited by sparkles
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6 hours ago, usedbicycle said:

 

Those three years of preschool before first grade really help children learn how to evolve and develop in a collective setting. I was shocked when I started working in low-income American schools that so many 5 year-olds were entering Kindergarten with very delayed motor and language skills. The most common situation was that the parent(s) worked and didn't have money for daycare, so an elderly relative would watch them but without the appropriate stimulation for their age.

I once read that the t.v. show Sesame Street got started to give lower income kids a pre-scchool experience.  I don't know if it's true or not but I thought it was interesting.

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47 minutes ago, kpmom said:

I once read that the t.v. show Sesame Street got started to give lower income kids a pre-scchool experience.  I don't know if it's true or not but I thought it was interesting.

That is the reason why it started. They wanted a realistic look for kids who lived in low income areas. That’s why they had an apartment building & graffiti on the walls. 

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As a small child growing up in a rural/suburban area I was so fascinated by the setting of Sesame Street. I'd never seen kids living in a city before. I always liked the videos of kids playing and going about their daily lives in environments different than mine.

My almost 3 year old goes to an excellent preschool, but I think she learns a lot just from watching Sesame Street. I know they're working with her on letter sounds at school right now, but a lot of what she can tell you about letter sounds appears to be straight from her Sesame Street Awesome Alphabet DVD that we've been playing in the car for her all summer. I think I get as much enjoyment out of that DVD as she does. So much nostalgia. It has a lot of vintage Sesame Street songs in it like the "J names" song, We all live in a Capital I, C is for Cookie...

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Why, Sweet Rufus, why, can't Chels and John  finish framing their windows???

 

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5 hours ago, HereticHick said:

Why, Sweet Rufus, why, can't Chels and John  finish framing their windows???

 

Time for John to call for a Saturday work party I'd say.

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6 hours ago, HereticHick said:

Why, Sweet Rufus, why, can't Chels and John  finish framing their windows???

 

I’m embarrassed to say I thought the exact same thing when I looked at that picture. I’m almost proud of their intense procrastination. Because they both come from families that would have finished that trim ages ago. I wonder if it bugs Steve or Marlin when they visit. If it does, I hope they never finish ?

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We went ahead and sent our close to the cutoff August birthday youngest daughter to school. We figured if she showed any evidence of not being ready or struggling we could either pull her out and put her back in preK or do a second year of Kinder. She has done very well overall, and is ahead in math, though she struggled with reading until the middle of 1st grade. She is 5th grade now and is a great student and has no issues socially. I think being the youngest (of 3) and having a lot of interaction with older kids helped her be ready. She is also really outgoing, which I think helps. Her older brother is on the other side of the cutoff and had it been him, I think we would have chosen to hold him back a year. He is very social, but I just don't think he would have done as well as he has if he had been a year younger.

For what it is worth, both Dh and I were on the younger side (he has a Summer birthday, with a September cutoff, I have a late Fall birthday with a end of the year cutoff) and we both did well in school and neither one of us had issues in High School academically or socially. He enlisted right out of high school and I went to college for a year before enlisting but I didn't struggle with school or anything like that. We both just had rough home lives and needed to make a change.

Our oldest daughter is in high school now she is smack in the middle of the cutoff date. She is academically gifted and socially very reserved. And a bit quirky. Having her skip a year in elementary was brought up several times but we declined. I think it was a good choice for her. Now that she is in high school she is looking to graduate a year early, which she will have no difficulty doing if she choose, she would just need to take one class in summer school or online and she would meet the requirements to graduate in 2021 vs 2022.  I struggle with it a bit because while I think she would do fine I don't want her to rush through her childhood. She is always looking for the next step and I would like her to try to enjoy where she is now. A couple of compromises have been brought up to her, like staying in High School and dual enrolling at the community college, she would have 27 college credits this way (in addition to the 2 AP classes she has already passed the test for) or graduating and going to the cc full time while living at home for a year. Ultimately we are leaving the choice to her, but it is making me a bit anxious waiting to see what she decides to do. 

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On 8/12/2019 at 3:08 PM, mango_fandango said:

How it works in England is that, for kids in my year, your birthday was between 1st September 1994 and 31st August 1995. I’m 1st July, so would have started Reception in September 1999. Except I didn’t. I started in the summer term of 2000, around April or so, and only spent one term in Reception before beginning year 1 in September 2000. I was already able to read though, so no major issues. (I was an early reader). I think, when it comes to delaying a kid, the parent should make the decision themselves based on their kid. Personally I never had any academic problems, but that’s just me and other kids born in the summer may well benefit from the extra year in nursery school. 

The age cutoff date is different in Scotland. In Northern Ireland, the date is 1st July. So, if I’d been born in Northern Ireland, I’d have been the oldest kid in the year! 

You weren't held back, though. The legal requirement in England is that a child must start education full time the term after she turns 5 years old. So you were entitled to a school place from September 1999, but not mandated to be in school until Sept 2000. My birthday is at a similar time of year to yours, just a decade earlier, and I had the same starting school timeline. 

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21 hours ago, Screamapillar said:

As a small child growing up in a rural/suburban area I was so fascinated by the setting of Sesame Street. I'd never seen kids living in a city before. I always liked the videos of kids playing and going about their daily lives in environments different than mine.

Same! I remember one episode they had break dancers come in and one guy did the worm on a sewer cover in the street. I didn't know what sewer covers were, so whenever my mom took me grocery shopping and we passed a silver plumbing cap in the floor I would throw myself on the ground and try to do it, to her complete and utter bewilderment. 

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15 hours ago, nausicaa said:

Same! I remember one episode they had break dancers come in and one guy did the worm on a sewer cover in the street. I didn't know what sewer covers were, so whenever my mom took me grocery shopping and we passed a silver plumbing cap in the floor I would throw myself on the ground and try to do it, to her complete and utter bewilderment. 

I love you.

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I started Kindergarden when I was 3, since my birthday is at the end of November. They had JK and SK in the same group, so some kids were twice my age. I was an advanced reader, and being in a class with lots of children of immigrants also gave me an edge academically. The teachers actually told my parents to stop teaching me things (!!) At Christmas time, the truth of Santa was added to that list. I don't have any memory of this, but I assume I made lots of kids cry when I revealed that the guy at the mall was fake and its your parents who buy your gifts. I also let some uninformed kids know there was no stork either.

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