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you all need to watch the 14 children special again...


homeschoolmomma1

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homeschoolmomma1

Okay so I was watching the 14 Children special (cuz I have no life) and it dawned on me

 

Someone said the one I watched was the edited one- I want to see the unedited one? Where can I see that one? What was different?

 

I saw the 8 minute Christmas clip that is on YouTube that was taken around that time.

 

Why to watch again...

 

I never thought of this but after watching the RazingRuth blog that the girls and boys room wasn't really an option (just something they should have always done)

 

Jim Holt and family- are the Duggars friends with them anymore? I can't find anything online and the Holts are never on the show

 

You get to hear Michelle say that children are a gift and a blessing and she loves every one of them- oh wait she says that every week

 

No one wanted to rent a house to the Duggars when the old house was gonna be torn down- hmmm maybe because of a LEASE for a year? Or you have too many kids. I mean really Jim Bob!

 

And last but not least- You can see Michelle's stomach in the ultrasound scene! What ever happened to the modesty sheet hmmmm

It is way toward the end. When the credits are rolling (Johannah's ultrasound) Jackson's there is a sheet

 

 

The specials lead to more questions than answers :doh:

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I was watching some of the earlier specials a few days ago, too. Did anyone else notice that Jim Bob said they built their house on so much land (20 acres, I believe) so the children could build house

Officially coming out of lurking to point something out no one has yet. There are actually two edited versions of the original special—the one with the Christmas edit and the update

I really wish 20/20 [who now have visited the Bates] would do a real investigative journalism report on ATI and or Duggars. Call them on stuff like this--"what about the pieces of his heart that Josh

fundiefun

IIRC the Duggars and Holts had a falling out over endorsing two different political candidates and one accused the other's candidate for being involved in a smear campaign against the other. When the Duggar's candidate lost when asked about it somewhere Jim Bob said it was due to "sin in the camp" around this time Josh was originally engaged to one of the Holt girls, but that was broken off. A rumor came about on one of the TWOP forums that Josh was involved in sexual sin (either touching a girl or looking at pornography) and was sent to some kind of Gothard reprogramming camp which was why he was absent during that time and his military style hair cut going on. This is just what I remember being posted as well as the speculation which goes to show the Duggar's who slogan on not giving away pieces of your heart is a line of bs.

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They seemed so much more calm when they first came on television and way more ultra conservative with their fashion. Fame definitely got the best of them now. They were so well behaved and now they need to put on a freakin' educational dvd to keep the youngers ones calm during their Today Show appearances.

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bananacat

It's actually illegal to discriminate against tenants based on their children. I guess it's possible because nobody is perfectly honest, but I suspect they were unwilling to commit to a lease, and they just used the kids as an excuse to feel all persecuted and martyred. The reason they seemed calmer back then (besides selective editing) is because they hit their kids a lot more back then. Spanked kids can have tendency to act out, but if you spank them even more, they just get broken spirits and never have an independent thought or action.

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alphaeta08

Question: do you mean Josh was engaged engaged, or sort of betrothed in a Simba-Nala way? Just wondering. I wouldn't put it past the Duggars to do a 15-year-old betrothal situation. :roll:

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O Latin

I know many people disagree, but I actually liked the narrator. Back when he was around, there was less of Michelle's talking head saying things like, "and we have a lot of older children who can drive, so that's why we took at lot of cars, because we had a lot of cars, and that's why we took so many." She actually said something like that in a recent episode.

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IIRC the Duggars and Holts had a falling out over endorsing two different political candidates and one accused the other's candidate for being involved in a smear campaign against the other. When the Duggar's candidate lost when asked about it somewhere Jim Bob said it was due to "sin in the camp" around this time Josh was originally engaged to one of the Holt girls, but that was broken off. A rumor came about on one of the TWOP forums that Josh was involved in sexual sin (either touching a girl or looking at pornography) and was sent to some kind of Gothard reprogramming camp which was why he was absent during that time and his military style hair cut going on. This is just what I remember being posted as well as the speculation which goes to show the Duggar's who slogan on not giving away pieces of your heart is a line of bs.

Close, but not exactly. Jim Holt is an aspiring politician (maybe he thought he could follow in Jim Bob's footsteps). The Duggars helped campaign for him; however, he lost (he's run for office since then, and lost, but this was years before Josh met Anna). Jim Holt, upset at having lost his election, declared it must have been due to "sin in the camp" (same concept I talked about in the Jana ISB thread; that if one person has sin in their heart, or isn't right with God somehow, it will literally cause the entire group they're with to fail). For some reason, he pointed the finger at Josh (the reason is pure rumor, something to do with another girl, but the Gothardites are so strict it may well have just been talking to her, who knows). At the same time Jim Holt broke off the betrothal. Note that Jim BOB has nothing to do with the "sin in the camp" quote; I think it's easy for people to get confused because they don't know who Jim Holt is.

A commenter in some thread elsewhere (years and years back, around the time of one of the specials, not TWOP) is the person who gave most of these details; they were apparently at a home church meeting or something similar. Michelle had supposedly been told to send Josh to one of these camps, and she was in tears and not sure what to do. Supposedly, she eventually did so, and people say the proof is in the shaved head at the end of one of the specials.

Amy Duggar has confirmed on her facebook that Josh was "engaged" once before. Also, interesting to note, when Jim Holt has subsequently run for office Josh always has signs posted supporting him. I wonder if he's still trying to prove his loyalty after all these years.

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Rachel333

Wasn't the falling out supposedly over the 2008 election, though? The Duggars campaigned for Huckabee, who had called Jim Holt a bad Christian for Holt's extremely tough stance on illegal immigration.

I know I've seen the Duggars and Holts together and looking like good friends after the supposed sin in the camp incident. (I have no reason to think they're not now, other than the internet speculation, but I'm just not around them anymore.)

I'd be curious to find out the truth about all of this. It wouldn't surprise me if the sin in the camp thing was true, and if they've got other secrets.

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There might have been some tension from that, but the post I read was years and years old, well before the 2008 election, possibly even before first or second special aired. Maybe someone knows where it can be found - it was linked on the TWOP thread but it was from somewhere else.

EDIT: Also it would make sense that they've patched things up since then, since it was many years back (and we've seen the Duggars since supporting Holt in elections).

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allyisyourpally5

I have watched this special in the uk....and I am pretty certain it was on youtube too....but this special also holds the clip where MIchelle explains the Buddy System, and does literally state that the children are weaned at 6 months and passed to a sibling so mommy can be ready for the next one.

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It's actually illegal to discriminate against tenants based on their children.

I think there are occupancy laws though, requiring a limited amount of people living in an X-bedroom home. For instance, I know renters at my old apartment complex could only have 2 people per bedroom, adult or child.

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I laughed my way through the special when it first came out. Now when I've watched clips from it I am amazed at young the kids were at that time. Now it seems sad that the oldest girls are doing all the cooking, cleaning and raising the little ones because its depriving them of doing things they want to do. But when a nine-year-old was doing all that it's practically abuse and the younger kids were getting much poorer parenting since it was being done by somebody not much older then them.

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Kitchen Princess

I am sure there are layers of government regulation about numbers of people in bedrooms, fire codes, etc., based on where the money is coming from and who has jurisdiction.

However, Springdale recently tried to pass an ordinance that would limit the number of people living in a home per the number of bedrooms. A not so subtle attempt to limit large numbers of Hispanic immigrants sharing a 2 bedroom house (there are a number of Springdale neighborhoods full of tiny houses with 5 cars parked in the yard, and people spilling out). The ordinance didn't pass.

A landlord has the right to limit the number of people in living in their property for practical reasons--strain on the plumbing is a big one. 16 people on one septic tank? (they like living in the country) I wouldn't rent to them.

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Kitchen Princess

Jim Holt's political career is over, as far as I'm concerned. Never hear a thing about him anymore.

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fundiefan

I think there are occupancy laws though, requiring a limited amount of people living in an X-bedroom home. For instance, I know renters at my old apartment complex could only have 2 people per bedroom, adult or child.

Yeah, there are occupancy requirements and laws. My two bedroom apartment's lease clearly states a maximum of five occupants, period. It doesn't say kids vs. adults, but five people and no more.

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bananacat

Now I'm sort of interested in a tell-all book from JOSH! I knew things were bad for the daughters, but it seems like things really sucked for him too. I can't believe I'm actually sympathetic to Smuggar, but being forced into and engagement at 15, being blamed for an adult's failure for talking to girl, and then being sent to a re-education camp is horrific. Hopefully Jinger will include this in her book because I just don't see Josh ever getting out of that cult.

It's interesting that he was engaged so young, but none of the others have been (that we know of). I wonder if that bad experience is why they are waiting so long (in fundie terms) to get their other kids married off.

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Koala

I think the Duggars were much, much more hardcore, before the $$$$ got to them. I think they had to back way off, so the media didn't catch wind of any of their shenanigans.

I know people who are very similar to them (the Duggars), and I am here to tell you, those "re-education" places are bad news. There is no telling what went on there.

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IReallyAmHopewell

On the kids/lease thing---may not be legal, but there are zoning regs that specify how many people in how much space.....

Amy Duggar has confirmed on her facebook that Josh was "engaged" once before. Also, interesting to note, when Jim Holt has subsequently run for office Josh always has signs posted supporting him. I wonder if he's still trying to prove his loyalty after all these years.

That he was "engaged" or "betrothed"? They have slightly different meanings in this group,

I don't know that they've really gotten too far from their beliefs over the years.....I've said before--it's very different having a house full of teenagers! You give on stupid stuff like clothing a lot more easily than you ever thought possible! Plus, they wouldn't be dressing like that if ATI didn't want them too--they are a giant recruiting tool and looking like freaks puts people off. Skirts only isn't at all uncommon, at least here in the Midwest [not in a big city--that's a different world], nor is not cutting your hair all THAT uncommon and the Duggars have always done that. Even in my kids public schools in 3 different districts in three states there were several girls who could only wear skirts. The boys not being allowed to wear shorts, even longer "Dockers" style ones, now that is different!!

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Well, Amy used the word "engaged." I think that original poster years ago might've used betrothed. But remember, Amy's not ATI so she might not be up with the Newspeak, or she might think that the Duggar fans won't understand, or that she's trying to make them seem as normal as possible.

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acutexenophobia

I was watching some of the earlier specials a few days ago, too. Did anyone else notice that Jim Bob said they built their house on so much land (20 acres, I believe) so the children could build houses on it, too? Have they said anything about this since? Or did they realize that mentioning that again would just SCREAM cult? I believe it's in the 16 and Moving In special.

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Officially coming out of lurking to point something out no one has yet.

There are actually two edited versions of the original special—the one with the Christmas edit and the update with ultrasound of Johannah, which replaced the Christmas edit once the pregnancy was in place. Neither one is the original version.

From the original, the only thing I recall from the numerous edits was a scene where Michelle attempts to describe each child and each description gets more and more vague as she goes down the line. Someone on the original TWOP thread listed all the edits, but there are quite a lot of pages to sort through to find that information.

Unfortunately I am unaware of where the unedited special can be seen or if it is available anywhere. The edits were added to remove the most objectionable parts of the special, so I would not be surprised if TLC shut down any online version in the name of copyright violation to protect their interests in whitewashing the Duggars.

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IReallyAmHopewell

I really wish 20/20 [who now have visited the Bates] would do a real investigative journalism report on ATI and or Duggars. Call them on stuff like this--"what about the pieces of his heart that Josh gave away before Anna???" etc

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Buzzard
I really wish 20/20 [who now have visited the Bates] would do a real investigative journalism report on ATI and or Duggars. Call them on stuff like this--"what about the pieces of his heart that Josh gave away before Anna???" etc

I wonder how much hand sex he had with her and if she feels dirty now!

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bananacat
I was watching some of the earlier specials a few days ago, too. Did anyone else notice that Jim Bob said they built their house on so much land (20 acres, I believe) so the children could build houses on it, too? Have they said anything about this since? Or did they realize that mentioning that again would just SCREAM cult? I believe it's in the 16 and Moving In special.

I remember him saying that too, and I have often wondered why Josh isn't building his own palace right next door. Maybe they meant it for the daughters, so they will be able to have some control over their sons-in-law, and also to make it convenient for the daughters to come back home every day and finish raising their siblings and cleaning the house. Or maybe JB won't give any land to Josh unless Josh buys it from him.

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Buzzard

I remember him saying that too, and I have often wondered why Josh isn't building his own palace right next door. Maybe they meant it for the daughters, so they will be able to have some control over their sons-in-law, and also to make it convenient for the daughters to come back home every day and finish raising their siblings and cleaning the house. Or maybe JB won't give any land to Josh unless Josh buys it from him.

I always assumed it was for the girls. If they dont give them a house they are likely to go live elsewhere with their husbands. Wouldnt wanna lose control of the cash cow! Think of the christmas pictures... JB and Michelle inthe middle of 100 kids!

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